I do think I was a bit naive to think that there wouldn't be spies in the Inquisition, but I don't think the principal metaphor works in this situation.
The Inquisitor inspired people, she was a symbol of hope for the hopeless, a messenger of this world's equivalent of Jesus Christ! If real people like Hitler and Jim Jones can convince people to become hapless followers (in Hitler's case without even having met many of them), then why wouldn't my honest to goodness good person Inquisitor inspire such blind loyalty? I mean, she does with some people no doubt, but all the people of the Qun and the agents how couldn't they see her brilliant-awesome-she-only-wants-to-help-youness.
...
I don't take betrayal well.
On the other hand
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My world state has Tabris's cousin a Bann (if that wasn't retconned), Briala in power, Leliana as divine, and two powerful elf leaders heroes/symbols in the past decade. How can so many elves be so willing to side with Solas?!?? Change was coming!! Rawr, frustrated about this game.
I think elves are afraid that humans would crush attempts at change. The Dalish warden's boon was denied and there could be a riot over city elves being given a postion of power if you put City elf's cousin a bann. That humans would ignore that it was an elf that saved them, or just say Lavellan is special. Social change takes a long time to have a significant impact, especially if it inconvience the higher ups (which are humans).
I don't know if this has been mentioned....but.....
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What would happen to people like Anders/Justice if the Veil collapsed......if he is still alive of course.
I mean......would someone like that fuse with the spirit they have in them? SInce the two dimensions are fusing back together sorta.....
......Would Anders become like a new Evanuris/Ancient elf person?
......I think that's not good. I think. Not sure.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I can't imagine, I am not even certain what will happen to regular people, maybe they'll be separated by force, but I'm pretty sure he won't become an Evanuris-like being anyhow.
I (personally) think what gave them their powers is the connection with their own spirit, if post-Veil everybody's spirit will float like orbs around their head then they'll probably split?
The reason I'm saying that is because some of the murals Solas painted are with halos, as well as the halo he has in his tarot card as well as this codex entry, which makes me believe people's spirits are visible (since I'm almost certain regular spirits do no desire things like love and do not flirt, unless they are desire demons of course, though I assume it's not genuine love).
I think elves are afraid that humans would crush attempts at change. The Dalish warden's boon was denied and there could be a riot over city elves being given a postion of power if you put City elf's cousin a bann. That humans would ignore that it was an elf that saved them, or just say Lavellan is special. Social change takes a long time to have a significant impact, especially if it inconvience the higher ups (which are humans).
I think this is something a lot of DA fans overlook. Yes, a mage warden can ask for the Circle to be given its independence, but the Chantry is still going to say no. An elf can be made a Bann, naturally the humans are going to riot.
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There's a lot of complaints over even the most pro-mage endings all being moved back to the Circle vs the Collage - but that's the point. We (the player and the hero) can want change. Whether other people want that change is a different thing entirely.
It's why you HAVE to save Orlais no matter what - the collapse of their horribly corrupt and racist government would shatter Orlais and leave no defence between the south and Tevinter.
Just curious but are we being more lax on tagging when it comes to spoilers? Not trying to police the thread. If we're not tagging anymore, that's fine. I have no idea what the time limit was intended to be for that. Just seen a couple posts openly talking about some of the not quite as significant revelations from Trespasser.
Wait, what's so bad about his Warden ending? I thought it was fine. Are you talking about the romanced version?
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Think so - one Inquisitor gets his personal belongings and a griffon feather. His writer also heavily implied on twitter that he's likely dead.
In any case, I just don't think it's a particularly good ending, because Blackwall's redemption arc was only really partially completed - if he actually felt redeemed and capable to move on at all.
Based on how Felassan talks he's not a modern elf. I think he's an old friend of Solas' from the Dread Wolf days.
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I probably need to give it another read(oh no! help!)but I couldn't remember anything in particular that suggested he's an ancient elf. Can you remind me?
About Solas, Iron Bull and everything in Tresspasser:
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This all makes me both want to replay the game again and never to starta new playthrough.
Replay the game: see everything in new light, finally understand what Cole is talking about and learning much more about what is actually happening
Never touch it again: I fear that I will never look at the romance the same way again. Everything will be a lie now, everything will remind me of this 'world full of Tranquil' line... sigh... I think I want to remember the whole game, especially my canon playthrough the way it was without all the revelations from Tresspasser.
About Iron Bull - I'm not surprised, but it's still sad that he truly can betray the Inquisitor and just be this mindless qunari drone.
I think the Inquisitor REALLY matters in that relationship. As a friend/lover.
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Killing the Chargers isn't necessarily the right thing to do? so Bull betraying shouldn't be a surprise. You convinced him that he should follow the Qun no matter what and you let him sacrifice his team. Whereas when you tell him to just be "Iron Bull and save the Charges" it makes a huge difference to him and we see how that is a good thing for him as a character. He is able to let go of a system that was hurting him.
I think there are some similarities there between Bull and Solas and I'm a strong believer that the Inquisitor will be able to nudge Solas in the right direction, like they did with Bull.
I probably need to give it another read(oh no! help!)but I couldn't remember anything in particular that suggested he's an ancient elf. Can you remind me?
It's been awhile since I read it, but it's the way he talks about the Dalish and his comments about how Briala wouldn't have liked to meet 'his people'.
Just curious but are we being more lax on tagging when it comes to spoilers? Not trying to police the thread. If we're not tagging anymore, that's fine. I have no idea what the time limit was intended to be for that. Just seen a couple posts openly talking about some of the not quite as significant revelations from Trespasser.
There's a lot of complaints over even the most pro-mage endings all being moved back to the Circle vs the Collage - but that's the point. We (the player and the hero) can want change. Whether other people want that change is a different thing entirely.
Emphasized because it's important.
Dragon Age is not Mass Effect. Shep is basically Space Jesus, capable of fixing centuries-old problems by virtue of personal awesome. Quizzy is not, not even with the Anchor. A good chunk of the RP tension in DA:I comes from the distance between the symbol of the Herald of Andraste, and the flesh-and-blood person behind it.
Quizzy is a powerfully influential person and potentially a very good person, deserving of the faith and trust of his/her followers. Still not going to change the world single-handed. IMO DA trends less toward the "great person" model of history, and more toward the combination of a bunch of little actions, slowly advancing the setting. Slowly, and often with setbacks.
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Think so - one Inquisitor gets his personal belongings and a griffon feather. His writer also heavily implied on twitter that he's likely dead.
In any case, I just don't think it's a particularly good ending, because Blackwall's redemption arc was only really partially completed - if he actually felt redeemed and capable to move on at all.
Weird. The non-romanced version is perfectly fine.
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He joins the Wardens and splits his time between Warden duties, and wandering the land doing random acts of good. No death or anything, unless I'm being extremely dense. Which is a possibility
Weird. The non-romanced version is perfectly fine.
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He joins the Wardens and splits his time between Warden duties, and wandering the land doing random acts of good. No death or anything, unless I'm being extremely dense. Which is a possibility
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Apparently the writer clarified that Blackwall does die, regardless of romance or not if you pick the Warden ending.
But I don't really see that as a bad thing? That's what wardens do- they serve until they die. It doesn't actually say how much time passes before he meets his end.
Uhm I two elf leaders as well. I sincerely hope he's having a tougher time *stabbing me in the back* because of it .
Agreed!
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Based on how Felassan talks he's not a modern elf. I think he's an old friend of Solas' from the Dread Wolf days.
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That would make him have killed him sooooo much worst
Because bitterness can be more powerful than hope.
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Remember, the qunari agents were already qunari; they converted back in Kirkwall when it was a total clusterf***. They supported the Inquisitor 100% while Corypheus was kicking because no one, not even the qunari, wanted him to prevail. But we've already discussed how damn good the qunari are at re-education. No pain, no emotion when their loyalties were always to the Qun in the first place.
As for Solas's followers, I'll bet some of them were already his agents. He was at Skyhold, able to quietly weed out the ones who might have fallen under quizzy's spell. So much for them. As for the rest, his message of rebellion probably had a lot of sympathetic ears. You can have powerful elven characters in the worldstate, but the fact remains that for your average elf in Orlais, change comes slowly, and life still generally blows. Just look at how much trouble we have with racism IRL. I don't agree by any means, but I can sympathize with those who wanted more radical change and hopped on Team Violent Revolution. It's like the run-up to the mage war all over again.
<snip>
Nothing is more powerful than hope *.*
“CHORONZON: I am a dire wolf, prey-stalking, lethal prowler.
MORPHEUS: I am a hunter, horse-mounted, wolf-stabbing.
CHORONZON: I am a horsefly, horse-stinging, hunter-throwing.
MORPHEUS: I am a spider, fly-consuming, eight legged.
CHORONZON: I am a snake, spider-devouring, posion-toothed.
MORPHEUS: I am an ox, snake-crushing, heavy-footed.
CHORONZON: I am an anthrax, butcher bacterium, warm-life destroying.
MORPHEUS: I am a world, space-floating, life-nurturing.
CHORONZON: I am a nova, all-exploding... planet-cremating.
MORPHEUS: I am the Universe -- all things encompassing, all life embracing.
CHORONZON: I am Anti-Life, the Beast of Judgement. I am the dark at the end of everything. The end of universes, gods, worlds... of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?
I think elves are afraid that humans would crush attempts at change. The Dalish warden's boon was denied and there could be a riot over city elves being given a postion of power if you put City elf's cousin a bann. That humans would ignore that it was an elf that saved them, or just say Lavellan is special. Social change takes a long time to have a significant impact, especially if it inconvience the higher ups (which are humans).
Change is slow, but even with people pushing against it would be coming to Thedas soon.. That one fancy Orlaisian college accepts elves now, more and more humans see them as people, and more elves realize they deserve better too. With so many very powerful people that are pro elf, even the most racist, closeminded, ignorant fools couldn't prevent it.
Apparently the writer clarified that Blackwall does die, regardless of romance or not if you pick the Warden ending.
But I don't really see that as a bad thing? That's what wardens do- they serve until they die. It doesn't actually say how much time passes before he meets his end.
Whoops. Ah, well. Trespasser already went a long way toward redeeming Blackwall in my eyes.
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I'm ok with it if he dies in the line of duty. He probably didn't have long after the Joining anyway.
I'll have to see if I can dig up that meta and share the whole thing. I've read some excellent Bull meta recently.
While in my canon they slept together at Halamshiral, I think a canon love scene would've taken place towards the end of the game, after the non-heartbreaking Crestwood scene.
I kind of get the feeling that Solas was ready to get it onnnn during that kiss in the Crestwood scene, y'know, with the hand on the butt and everything. I think that's definitely where a canon love scene would've happened... well, if he didn't break Lavellan's poor little heart!
I still wish we had one more little scene in between the balcony and Crestwood, like cuddling together on his couch while talking about his art or something cute like that.
EDIT: Le top with Solas being shooed away.
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I kind of get the feeling that Solas was ready to get it onnnn during that kiss in the Crestwood scene, y'know, with the hand on the butt and everything. I think that's definitely where a canon love scene would've happened... well, if he didn't break Lavellan's poor little heart!
I still wish we had one more little scene in between the balcony and Crestwood, like cuddling together on his couch while talking about his art or something cute like that.
If Crestwood scene went differently:
Forget my mission! Forget my people! It's been 2k+ years, I'm getting laid tonight, the world be damned!
DarthEmpress, chibielf, Illyria et 9 autres aiment ceci
I kind of get the feeling that Solas was ready to get it onnnn during that kiss in the Crestwood scene, y'know, with the hand on the butt and everything. I think that's definitely where a canon love scene would've happened... well, if he didn't break Lavellan's poor little heart!
I still wish we had one more little scene in between the balcony and Crestwood, like cuddling together on his couch while talking about his art or something cute like that.
I wish we had some cutesy little scene with Solas before the break up
I second this. It's probably fine. But that's just IMO.
I third it! Who jumps onto the thread with after the DLC comes out anyway? No offense to people that do, I just find it strange is all.
Change is slow, but even with people pushing against it would be coming to Thedas soon.. That one fancy Orlaisian college accepts elves now, more and more humans see them as people, and more elves realize they deserve better too. With so many very powerful people that are pro elf, even the most racist, closeminded, ignorant fools couldn't prevent it.
That's a good point, but to be honest in every game so far we see changes trying to be made by big people who do grand gestures, but the peasants and the low ranking nobles still see and do things exactly the same as they always have. TME still had nobles regularly stalking the alienages to look for unfortunately pretty elves or just to kill any they happen to come across still out after dark, Asunder still had drunken peasants who believe in every silly superstition about mages and would get into a bar fight over one.
I third it! Who jumps onto the thread with after the DLC comes out anyway? No offense to people that do, I just find it strange is all.
I know there's at least 1 or 2 Solas thread regulars that are on last-gen. They can't play Trespasser without upgrading. My only reason for being concerned about the thread spoiling them. They might know everything already, so it'd be no worries.
Props for Sandman reference, and I agree that hope is very powerful But it's useless if you don't have it any more.
Take DA2 Anders. By the end of DA2, Anders has entirely given up hope of a peaceful resolution between mages and templars. And nothing anyone says or does can sway him from blowing up a Chantry, its grand cleric, and hundreds of people.
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Now let's say you're an elf in Orlais. You're quick, clever, and embittered as all f***. What does it matter to you if hundreds of miles away, there's an elven Bann in Denerim? What's it to you who sits on the throne? You still likely come from an alienage. You're still disenfranchised and stepped on. Chevaliers still kill your people with no recourse. You might even be working for the Inquisition, and you know that but for the symbol you wear, you'd be treated like ****** just like every other elf. There's change, but it's fragile and fleeting, and in the past it's never lasted or done you any good.
While I don't think lashing out despair and violence is a GOOD idea by any means, it does happen. Sometimes people just don't have it in them to hope.
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