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[drosophila]

I third it! Who jumps onto the thread with after the DLC comes out anyway? No offense to people that do, I just find it strange is all.

 

This is how I think about it:

 

Most people I see have been on the thread for at least a little while, with the occasional person coming in for the first time who finished the DLC and now needs the blanket fort. Maaaybe 1 in 1000 will come here before the DLC, but no system is perfect, and if they're scouting the webs before they play, tumblr will spoil them long before we do.

[Vlk3]

This is so true. I think deep down my Lavellan knew something was off with Solas, but let her feelings blind her. How else wouldn't she be suspicious about him never answering her questions about his past. It's because she didn't ask, because she knew something was off.

How do you think

Spoiler

Solas returning the Veil will affect the world? Why would it kill so many people? And were some humans magic before the Veil? Were all of them just like the elves?

SO MANY QUESTIONS

My Lavellan suspected something was off with Solas, but she didn't want to know. She just hoped it wouldn't be that bad and waited for him to trust her. They had a few arguments, though. After Winter Palace, because of 'my people' talk and after Adamant, because well, I prefer Grey Wardens leashed than somewhere out there plotting gods-know-what. Ahem. Back, to the topic. She knew her love blinds her, especially after Temple of Mythal and breakup, but she chose to let that happen.

Even though she suspected Solas was hiding something, she trusted him more than anyone. I think the only other person she trusted was Leliana. Hardened Leliana, because my girl was certainly very pragmatic. She almost let Bull kill the Charges, but her hate for the qun saved them, thankfully.

Spoiler

So she can't really blame Solas for doing what he's doing. He sees no other choice, so he does what he thinks is necessary to achieve his goal (a noble one I might add). She did kill and would kill to achieve her goals as well. But there are things she wouldn't do. Like killing Solas. Or mass genocide (like, killing just everyone in modern Thedas). If she believed it would help the Elves, she would start a war with Tevinter/ Orlais or any other nation.  But killing everyone? No. And she can't let Solas do that, because it would destroy him, and al the good he has still  left. After all, he doesn't approve of killing people and being cruel. I think that sometimes my Lavellan was feling guilty about her way of dealing with problems (stabbing everyone and all that stuff) and it was Solas who was making her a better person, ironically. And that's why she needs to convince him to change his plans, he needs to be this good person, she fell in love with.

About the questions:

 I have no idea why destroying the Veil  is an insta-kill button. I don't understand why this has to work that way. It could cause some disasters, a lot of deaths, people would feel lost and they would have to adapt. But it would also bring some good I think. But I may be just ignorant. Solas should know everything about the Veil, after all he created it, but I want to think that he does not in fact know everything, and is wrong here.  Maybe Mythal knows more? Maybe she's testing Solas to see how far he would go to save Elven People? Mythal is known to do things like that, after all. Although 'You know not what you ask, child' line doesn't make me very hopeful.

I wonder what were dwarves like before the Veil, but it brings me a headache. Again, no idea. Humans? Where were they before? This is strange, it's like they never existed before. Hmm... I think they lived on another continent, or maybe they were another experiment of mad scientist Ghilan'ain.

 

 

Another thought about the Veil: i'ts brought up multiple times, that there are more mages born than ever.  Fo many years, no somniari was born and yet we have Feynriel in Kirkwall. Something is happening to the Veil already. It might be going down gradually, but Solas would know about it for sure. The magic seems to be coming back anyway. The dragons are awakening, there are more of them than before. What's going on with Thedas, really?

[The Lone Shadow]

I headcannon that they did the deed the morning before the Crestwood scene. Like Solas wanting to have a nice romantic day for them before he dumps everything on her.
 

[Jaderail]

About Solas, Iron Bull and  everything in Tresspasser:

 

Spoiler

This all makes me both want to replay the game again and never to starta  new playthrough.

Replay the game: see everything in new light, finally understand what Cole is talking about and learning much more about what is actually happening

Never touch it again: I fear that I will never look at the romance the same way again. Everything will be a lie now, everything will remind me of this 'world full of Tranquil' line... sigh... I think I want to remember the whole game, especially my canon playthrough the way it was without all the revelations from Tresspasser.

 

About Iron Bull - I'm not surprised, but it's still sad that he truly can betray the Inquisitor and just be this mindless qunari drone. 

 

I think people take that line out of context a lot. With a romanced Lavellan he says:

 

Spoiler

Solas: "You must understand, I awoke in a world where the veil had blocked most peoples conscious connection to the fade, It was like walking through a world of tranquil.

Lavellan: "We aren't even people to you?"

Solas: "Not at first, you showed me that I was wrong... again."

 

I take that as him saying you are people to him, in fact - the only redeeming factor of this world is you. Even if he does plan to continue his plans, he still sees Lavellan as the only thing in the world worth saving. The only thing that makes him truly question his actions.

 

I think it's too early to judge whether the entire relationship is just a gut-wrenching depression fest that ends with a homicidal boyfriend. I think you'd need to see the end, and what Solas chooses to do. He might end up sacrificing everything for this world, and since Lavellan is the only thing in this world really worth saving to him, it would be like him literally sacrificing *everything* for the Inquisitor.

 

[NeverlandHunter]

That's a good point, but to be honest in every game so far we see changes trying to be made by big people who do grand gestures, but (and I can't remember which book it is) the peasants and the low ranking nobles still see and do things exactly the same as they always have. TME still had nobles regularly stalking the alienages to look for unfortunately pretty elves or just to kill any they happen to come across still out after dark, Asunder still had drunken peasants who believe in every silly superstition about mages and would get into a bar fight over one.

That's because BioWare doesn't have the time to individually make your choices have big impacts when they're so many options, but in reality big change should be happening...

That's true, but I think even without all the crazy magical shite that's happening Thedas would still be on the threshold of big change.

[midnight tea]

.... And I still have to laugh that he dragged her all the way to Crestwood. Like - how far away is it from Skyhold? Definitely not close enough that they'd reach it after a short stroll

[Jayla]

I headcannon that they did the deed the morning before the Crestwood scene. Like Solas wanting to have a nice romantic day for them before he dumps everything on her.
 

 

Halamshiral is where my two did the doing. Drunken Solas is hilarious and I think that'd be the only time he could let go of his inhibitions. Quite late into the relationship for my tastes, but oh! the sexual tension is delish.

[Cee]

 

 

Spoiler

   In some ways maybe his heart made his head stop being stupid.

 

May this happen again.

[drosophila]

.... And I still have to laugh that he dragged her all the way to Crestwood. Like - how far away is it from Skyhold? Definitely not close enough that they'd reach it after a short stroll

 

I KNOW that always struck me as funny.

 

Solas: Come with me, vhenan!

 

**5 hours later and on the road**

 

Lavellan: Uh, Solas, are we going somewhere far away? Because you kind of dragged me spontaneously out of Skyhold without packing and I HAVE A JOB.  

[Jayla]

.... And I still have to laugh that he dragged her all the way to Crestwood. Like - how far away is it from Skyhold? Definitely not close enough that they'd reach it after a short stroll

 

I think someone said three days?

The whole game is like that though. All the way to Val Royeaux  to take Cole to dinner, Cullenmance go to Crestwood too, Blackwallmancers get dragged to Storm Coast (it's cold and wet there too!). I dunno about the rest. xD

[_Lucinia]

This is how I think about it:

 

Most people I see have been on the thread for at least a little while, with the occasional person coming in for the first time who finished the DLC and now needs the blanket fort. Maaaybe 1 in 1000 will come here before the DLC, but no system is perfect, and if they're scouting the webs before they play, tumblr will spoil them long before we do.

Yeah, I mean that's the whole reason I kinda stayed away from this thread once the game launched.  I had been lurking and reading for weeks before launch.  But once the game was out noooooope I stayed away, lol.  Can't be responsible for other people's decisions.  It's always a risk to come into this side of the forums anyways. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

I vaguely remember somethong about a week of tagging spoilers? If so then we're good.

[Avejajed]

I'm ok with spoilers too.

At this point it's a bit of a risk to go anywhere on the forums if you're still trying to stay out of it. I don't know how you'd interact much anyway since that's mostly all we talk about.

[Cee]

BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.

 

THEY MADE CASSANDRA LOOK LIKE A MAN.

 

AND I HAVE CHARTS AND SCIENCE TO BACK IT UP.

 

Aaaaand out of likes.

 

 

 

Still working on a concept for Cass romance. I was thinking archer Lavellan but I want to bring Varric, so he might be a mage.

[Jayla]

I vaguely remember somethong about a week of tagging spoilers? If so then we're good.

 

Really?

 

Okay, okay.

 

I'm gonna do it!

 

Here it comes!

 

A spoiler!

 

Snape is Luke's father!

[drosophila]

Yeah, I mean that's the whole reason I kinda stayed away from this thread once the game launched.  I had been lurking and reading for weeks before launch.  But once the game was out noooooope I stayed away, lol.  Can't be responsible for other people's decisions.  It's always a risk to come into this side of the forums anyways. 

 

Right before DLC I fancied myself a Spoiler Warden, since everyone was so hyped and it was nice to have a safe haven to share the hype. Now, I think the purpose of the thread has changed and most people just want to discuss what they already experienced. 

 

I'm not saying everyone should have played already, or that if they're spoiled it's their fault for not staying away. It's just that you can't be on any social media and NOT get spoiled over Tresspasser, we're literally the last bastion of spoiler-conscious people. 

[midnight tea]

I think people take that line out of context a lot. With a romanced Lavellan he says:

 

Spoiler

Solas: "You must understand, I awoke in a world where the veil had blocked most peoples conscious connection to the fade, It was like walking through a world of tranquil.

Lavellan: "We aren't even people to you?"

Solas: "Not at first, you showed me that I was wrong... again."

 

I take that as him saying you are people to him, in fact - the only redeeming factor of this world is you. Even if he does plan to continue his plans, he still sees Lavellan as the only thing in the world worth saving. The only thing that makes him truly question his actions.

 

I think it's too early to judge whether the entire relationship is just a gut-wrenching depression fest that ends with a homicidal boyfriend. I think you'd need to see the end, and what Solas chooses to do. He might end up sacrificing everything for this world, and since Lavellan is the only thing in this world really worth saving to him, it would be like him literally sacrificing *everything* for the Inquisitor.

 

 

 

Thing is, Solas says the same thing to approved Quizzy. In light of that as well as Cole's "you're real, which means everyone else could be real" I must conclude that it's possible that he keeps Quizzy in the highest possible regard in terms of... uh... personhood, but Inquisitor himself/herself acted more like a catalyst - they were like a splash of vibrant color that eventually began coloring everything else for Solas and making him see people everywhere.

 

I mean, even in playthrough with disliked Quizzy you can see him sympathize with people and gain respect for Cass or Varric - and he's so thirsty for any sort of connection, that he's even content to see that he and Blackwall share relatively similar experiences from war.

 

(from banter)

 

Solas: You have seen a great deal of battle.

Blackwall: We all have.

Solas: Not all, not like you. You live and breathe war. You understand it. It is home to you.

Blackwall: What's that supposed to mean?

Solas: I intended no offense.

Solas: We have both seen terrible things. We have watched death and destruction render that which we love unrecognizable.

Solas: It is calming to see something familiar in another.

 

... Just how frikking SAD is that? If he reaches for understanding of war and seeing death and destruction just to see something familiar in another person?

 

And how much of a surprise and comfort it must have been to find the deep levels of familiarity with approved Quizzy? It must have meant a world to him. Literally.

[Arcanista]

hooo boy it's been a busy day. But I put out the first chapter of my solavellan fic (majour trespasser spoilers from the very first sentence)! I'm only planning 3 chapters, it's not going to be long, I don't think. Fair warning that this might not be everyone's speed, but by the same token, it might be interesting to read a fic on the ship by someone who didn't really have feelings about it until after Trespasser?

 

Hope people like it, though!

[Uirebhiril]

If spoilers are no longer going to be tagged, the topic should probably be updated so that people know they might encounter them in the thread. Just for a time, as a courtesy. There's enough topics and posts and things out in the wild that it would be hard to not already be spoiled by this point I guess.

[Shari'El]

Hmmm

 

Spoiler

Why are people certain Veil is insta-kill? Solas said that one the Veil would've been removed with foci (using the anchor) Thedas would've "burned in chaos" while he restores the elvens. I think it's not literal "burn", it's just that there will be chaos because people will change and things will change.

Is there something I missed that suggests otherwise?

 

Also about Mythal

 

Spoiler

Every once in a while I see Flemythal coming up around here, I personally don't trust her.

After Trespasser I trust her even less (no matter the fact she is an AWESOME character), Solas said she was the best of them, but best of something does not guarantee "good", it's like going to vote in the elections and voting to the least corrupt politician.

• Her activities in the Deep Roads suggest things... about her, her statues are everywhere.
• She still binds people to her bidding for eternity (poor sentinels, as long as she lives they had to protect the well, they had no life).
• She still had slaves marked by her vallaslin.
• She still considered herself a god, worthy of worship.
• The codices that describe her judging sound ominous.
• In the elven writing speaking of the sinner she refused to protect someone who just took the form of dragon, even though he was urged by Ghilan'nai, she let him be judged by Elgar'nan, who, as will all know, passes harsh judgement.
• The verse below that speaks about how Mythal seemingly enslaved dwarves to mine lyrium.

I am empty, filled with nothing,

Mythal gives you dreams.

It fills you, within you,

Making our leaders proud.

My little stones,

Never yours the sun.

Forever, forever.

[NeverlandHunter]

I know there's at least 1 or 2 Solas thread regulars that are on last-gen.  They can't play Trespasser without upgrading.  My only reason for being concerned about the thread spoiling them.  They might know everything already, so it'd be no worries. 

Err, yes that. Still. So. Angry. 

 

But, how long would we continue adding tags? As someone else said, it's been a week already and people coming onto the thread at this pint have to know there is a chance they might be spoiled.

 

Props for Sandman reference, and I agree that hope is very powerful But it's useless if you don't have it any more.

 

Take DA2 Anders.  By the end of DA2, Anders has entirely given up hope of a peaceful resolution between mages and templars.  And nothing anyone says or does can sway him from blowing up a Chantry, its grand cleric, and hundreds of people.

 

Spoiler

Now let's say you're an elf in Orlais.  You're quick, clever, and embittered as all f***.  What does it matter to you if hundreds of miles away, there's an elven Bann in Denerim?  What's it to you who sits on the throne?  You still likely come from an alienage.  You're still disenfranchised and stepped on.  Chevaliers still kill your people with no recourse.  You might even be working for the Inquisition, and you know that but for the symbol you wear, you'd be treated like ****** just like every other elf.  There's change, but it's fragile and fleeting, and in the past it's never lasted or done you any good.

 

While I don't think lashing out despair and violence is a GOOD idea by any means, it does happen.  Sometimes people just don't have it in them to hope.

I love Neil Gaiman

 

I think it matters

Spoiler

Now imagine you're an elf in Orlais. You've been told all your life that elves are meant to serve, that you'll amount to nothing. You don't know of any elves that doing anything but serve. And then news breaks that an elf from the Denerim alienage just saved the entirety of Fereldan, and that another one was made Bann. Now, not much changes for you for years, but then then you hear about stirrings from an elf close to her majesty. *An alienage is destroyed, but the college opens up to elves. And then the terrible Breach, people are dying, crying to the Maker for help and He sends it in the form of a Dalish elf. She saves Thedas, everyone is praising her name. Lavellan, the tattooed elf, sent by Andraste herself to save us all. What happens next, Divine Victoria calls for elves to be allowed in the Chantry and Shartan's chants are officially part of The Chant of Light. How can that not inspire hope. The Denerim alienage had a little boy and girl who couldn't think of an elven hero and now look. There is so much hope and inspiration for the down trodden elves. They know they can be more and things can change.

*I have not read any of these books and am just going off of what I heard

[NightSymphony]

I don't mind spoilers..I've been reading them. And I know Capricorn has been reading them too.  I'm not sure who else hasn't been able to play the DLC yet. 

 

I think no longer tagging spoilers is fine...but maybe you can put "Here Be Spoilers" or something in the thread title? So people know before they come in here.

[AutumnOracle]

Personally for me I'm someone who gains more enjoyment from small spoilers. I came by to see if I should save my Trevalyn play for the salve after the feels.  Turns out I needed it.  

[The Lone Shadow]

My Lavellan suspected something was off with Solas, but she didn't want to know. She just hoped it wouldn't be that bad and waited for him to trust her. They had a few arguments, though. After Winter Palace, because of 'my people' talk and after Adamant, because well, I prefer Grey Wardens leashed than somewhere out there plotting gods-know-what. Ahem. Back, to the topic. She knew her love blinds her, especially after Temple of Mythal and breakup, but she chose to let that happen.

Even though she suspected Solas was hiding something, she trusted him more than anyone. I think the only other person she trusted was Leliana. Hardened Leliana, because my girl was certainly very pragmatic. She almost let Bull kill the Charges, but her hate for the qun saved them, thankfully.

Spoiler

So she can't really blame Solas for doing what he's doing. He sees no other choice, so he does what he thinks is necessary to achieve his goal (a noble one I might add). She did kill and would kill to achieve her goals as well. But there are things she wouldn't do. Like killing Solas. Or mass genocide (like, killing just everyone in modern Thedas). If she believed it would help the Elves, she would start a war with Tevinter/ Orlais or any other nation.  But killing everyone? No. And she can't let Solas do that, because it would destroy him, and al the good he has still  left. After all, he doesn't approve of killing people and being cruel. I think that sometimes my Lavellan was feling guilty about her way of dealing with problems (stabbing everyone and all that stuff) and it was Solas who was making her a better person, ironically. And that's why she needs to convince him to change his plans, he needs to be this good person, she fell in love with.
 

Spoiler

 

[spoiler]

Ditto for my Lavellans, they would all do whatever it took to help the elves, regardless of who it harms. Some of them would be on board with Solas's plan if it didn't kill the modern day elves. She also certainly knew something was up at the Temple of Mythal when Abalas treated him differently. She had a supicion that he was an ancient elf and was even more certain that this was the case when Solas's orb breaks.

 

The only elf I have that would be more opposed that is my Surene, who is like Sera in seeing people as people regardless of race. Except she doesn't have self loathing or is racist agaisnt elves, and have a more of "You don't like my magic or my pointy ears, well f*** you, human." She wants equality and peaceful co-existance.

 

I actually first thought that bringing down the veil was just going to harm humans. That it would be like the eluvians, humans would suffer and the elves would get stronger. But I don't know. Also, maybe Solas would find some way to protect the modern elves that are helping him, like putting them in a safe place while the world exploded.

[Vlk3]

I think people take that line out of context a lot. With a romanced Lavellan he says:

 

Spoiler

Solas: "You must understand, I awoke in a world where the veil had blocked most peoples conscious connection to the fade, It was like walking through a world of tranquil.

Lavellan: "We aren't even people to you?"

Solas: "Not at first, you showed me that I was wrong... again."

 

I take that as him saying you are people to him, in fact - the only redeeming factor of this world is you. Even if he does plan to continue his plans, he still sees Lavellan as the only thing in the world worth saving. The only thing that makes him truly question his actions.

 

I think it's too early to judge whether the entire relationship is just a gut-wrenching depression fest that ends with a homicidal boyfriend. I think you'd need to see the end, and what Solas chooses to do. He might end up sacrificing everything for this world, and since Lavellan is the only thing in this world really worth saving to him, it would be like him literally sacrificing *everything* for the Inquisitor.

 

Oh no, no. I am sure he has genuine feelings for Lavellan, I never doubted that.

Spoiler

And I think it won't end up that bad (I'm an optimist after all, it seems). It's just a little sad, that at first he doesn't consider people to be...people. Yeah. I'll try to headcanon that at some point, feeling all bitter and betrayed, he decided to pretend  modern elves and everyone else are not real, but it's not what he truly thinks.

 

And I don't want him to sacrifice everything for the Inquisitor. She shouldn't be the only thing worth saving in this world. No, Solas needs to keep fighting, but he needs to find another way.