153434 réponses à ce sujet

[MayriyaNoori]

http://forum.bioware...las-eat-people/

*catching up with thread*

 

[Janic99]

I think Mass Effect is just ripe with opportunities like this. I have a very hard time believing every alien race has sex for pleasure. Maybe there could be a race of aliens that just have sex to reproduce, but choose a mate because of luuuuuvv. Regardless of sex, or even gender!

I thought Asaris are like that. They look female but they do not have a gender actually. They are both male and female and can have babies with any gender any race. Does that not count? 

Edit: Oh wait I think I read your comment wrong lol XD sorry 

[Miss This or That]

I think Mass Effect is just ripe with opportunities like this. I have a very hard time believing every alien race has sex for pleasure. Maybe there could be a race of aliens that just have sex to reproduce, but choose a mate because of luuuuuvv. Regardless of sex, or even gender!

 

I quite like the premise of this, but asexuals don't really define themselves by having sex 'for reproduction' or anything -though those do exists. There are those that like sex, those that would never go near another person's genitals. Then there are those that are grey-asexual and just feel asexual partly, those that are demi and thus need a strong bond towards another person before they can feel sexual about them and so on. And THEN there are the aromantic people, who cannot feel romantic stuff. They can still like it or they don't, but, well, they just don't fall into the cuddle wuddle trope. Also, another layer of complexity is added because asexual does not mean you are panromantic and vice versa. Oh help, humans are complex!

[Avejajed]

I think sometimes we make things more complicated than they have to be.

[Jayla]

I'm genuinely confused about the whole hostility towards modders who create the "equal opportunity" mods for characters, and I'm noticing it especially towards gay characters. As far as I'm aware, no one loses their **** over a mod that lets Solas be romancable by men or other races, but people seem to freak out if Dorian or Sera are made bi through these mods.

 

I just don't get it; it's a mod, not canon. Your representation isn't made null with the existence of these mods. They're for fun, for people who want them, just like every other damn mod that changes something with a character. Now if an official update released by BioWare did something like this, then I'd understand.

 

It just seems hypocritical. "Ah, yes, a mod that makes Solas bi, yes, wonderful. WHAT! A mod that makes Dorian bi?! RRAAAAGGGEEEE!"

 

Disclaimer: I'm not saying anyone here holds these particular views, but if you do I'd love to hear why. I'm all up for broadening my horizon and I'm sure I'm probably missing something.

[Miss This or That]

I think sometimes we make things more complicated than they have to be.

 

But the asexual spectrum is so complex. I'm not making it so, there literally exist different words for the different parts of the spectrum. Grey-asexual, Asexual, Demisexual. All part of the spectrum, but still quite different. Not everyone uses these terms, but they are there for a reason. I'd be fine with a companion of any one of those three 'options', simply because it would be a first to even have something like this. And that would be awesome~

[Moirin]

Well, Cole is a...spirit that can turn human. I don't really think he actually fills that role, because that would imply that asexuals are weird spirit-y people. Last time I checked, I couldn't make others forget me.

 

The companion does not have to be romance-able by our PC's, but something like Krem would be nice. Just something to show that people like that exists, that would be enough.

 

I never thought Sebastian was asexual. He's more bound by chastity than anything else, really. And asexual doesn't have to mean chaste, either. It's tricky because it's such a wide spectrum (asexuals that have sex, those that do not, grey-asexuals, demisexuals, ...), but something to be represented by would be really nice~

 

Ah. I meant (more) Human Cole specifically. Since he's in a relationship with that bard and it seems to be a pretty non-sexual type of relationship. And since elves just seem to be spirits that eventually came to have physical bodies I didn't realize the spirit thing might be a deal-breaker since Cole (or more-Human Cole) wouldn't be too different imo.

 

 

Sadly, Cole is not asexual.  At least, not after he becomes more human.

 

It gives an unfortunate implication that all humans are inherently sexual beings, that as long as Cole is spirit-like he doesn't understand or desire any sexual attraction, but as soon as he's made more human-like, he starts showing attraction to others.

 

(If you didn't bring him to the final fight against Corypheus, Cole mentions that the servants are drinking and reveling with wine, "some while lying down." He and the Inquisitor both hint that the servants are doing more than just drinking, and Cole shows some small desire to join them, "but not now... I'm not ready." Then after the two-year time skip, he's seeing Maryden. You might think their relationship is chaste, but you'd again be wrong. Bring him along to fight the Qunari, and in one of the "talk to Cole" clickable spots, he mentions how much he likes Maryden, including "her bodice smells nice." Based on his very embarrassed reaction, he's not talking in a kind of "her hair smells nice" kind of way.)

 

Oh! I didn't know this. I only have one playthrough that has more Human Cole, and I haven't reached anywhere near end game with it.

 

It happens to be the playthrough with my one Inquisitor that doesn't get along well with Solas, so it's hard for me to play.

[Miss This or That]

Sadly, Cole is not asexual.  At least, not after he becomes more human.

 

It gives an unfortunate implication that all humans are inherently sexual beings, that as long as Cole is spirit-like he doesn't understand or desire any sexual attraction, but as soon as he's made more human-like, he starts showing attraction to others.

 

(If you didn't bring him to the final fight against Corypheus, Cole mentions that the servants are drinking and reveling with wine, "some while lying down." He and the Inquisitor both hint that the servants are doing more than just drinking, and Cole shows some small desire to join them, "but not now... I'm not ready." Then after the two-year time skip, he's seeing Maryden. You might think their relationship is chaste, but you'd again be wrong. Bring him along to fight the Qunari, and in one of the "talk to Cole" clickable spots, he mentions how much he likes Maryden, including "her bodice smells nice." Based on his very embarrassed reaction, he's not talking in a kind of "her hair smells nice" kind of way.)

 

That is the main thing I don't like about the transformation that makes Cole fully human. I have to say that I was a supporter of the 'Cole could be in a relationship' group, but I wanted it to be this pure little thing that does not refer to sexual encounters of any kind, because, at least for me, it would cheapen his growth. He was a spirit of Compassion, not one of Love. They could have made him and Maryden into this sweet little pair of puffballs, but instead they went with the "everyone is basically sexual" trope and I don't like that. Cole WOULD have been quite perfect to show us an asexual side, but...well. It would still have been a little weird to feel represented by a spirit-turned-human only, but his relationship with Maryden just seems that much weirder.

 

@Moirin: Oh, I thought you were referring to Cole as a whole! Sorry, sorry. =)

[Catfishers]

Disclaimer: I'm not saying anyone here holds these particular views, but if you do I'd love to hear why. I'm all up for broadening my horizon and I'm sure I'm probably missing something.

 

For me, it's mostly to do with how mods either create or erase representation for groups that are typically not recognised or represented in media.

 

A mod that makes a straight character bisexual or gay is creating a space for a marginalised group; it's allowing people who do not normally have the opportunity to see themselves represented to create a space for themselves. It's adding something. A mod that makes a gay character straight (most especially in the case of Dorian, whose sexuality is so intrinsically tied to his characterisation) is erasing or denying that representation. It's taking something away.

 

I really don't care what people want to do with their own games or their own lives, but this is why I, personally, would never mod a gay/bi character to be straight. Erasing their identities to suit myself, when, as a straight woman, I already have so many opportunities to be represented and catered to, feels wrong.

[Cee]

I think Mass Effect is just ripe with opportunities like this. I have a very hard time believing every alien race has sex for pleasure. Maybe there could be a race of aliens that just have sex to reproduce, but choose a mate because of luuuuuvv. Regardless of sex, or even gender!

 

Salarians -

 

Spoiler

 

• Salarian:

  I still don't see why we're here. Salarians do not "get married." My family simply negotiated a reproduction contract--

• Human:

  Whatever. It's the closest you guys get to a wedding. And that means you get a bachelor party. End of story.

• Salarian:

  I don't understand! Humans celebrate wedding contracts by tempting infidelity? That makes no sense!

• Human:

  Calm down, man! Don't embarrass me in front of the stripper.

• Salarian:

  What do turians do? Do turians do this, too?

• Turian:

  I'm just here for the drinks.

• Salarian:

  You said that bachelor parties are for very close friends. We're just co-workers.

• Human:

  We've been co-workers for five years, though. Aren't salarian years like dog years?

• Salarian:

  Okay, now-- that's offensive!

• Salarian:

  I appreciate the gesture, but my people don't even have sex drives the way humans do.

• Human:

  Uh-huh. Take a look at that, man. Everybody likes the asari! Everybody.

• Salarian:

  But we actually reproduce by...my word, she is very...limber.

• Salarian:

  I can appreciate her dancing in an aesthetic manner, but...I don't have...feelings of...hmm...she is a lovely shade of blue.

• Turian:

  Okay, that makes my legs hurt just watching it, and my knees are meant to bend that way.

• Salarian:

  This isn't as bad as I had feared. It's actually...i-is it warm in here?

• Human:

  Okay, you see that bit there?

• Salarian:

  The little divot in her abdomen?

• Human:

  It's called a belly button. Humans and asari have them, and you're going to be doing shots out of it later tonight.

• Turian:

  That can't be sanitary.

• Human:

  Not the point, man!

• Salarian:

  I can understand why I might find asari attractive. But how can they be attractive to humans, too? They look just like salarians!

• Human:

  What?! They look exactly like us! I'm...I'm not seeing the salarian thing at all. At all.

• Turian:

  You're both wrong. Asari look just like blue turians. Look at the head-fringe!

• Human:

  Wait. You don't think they're like, mind-controlling us to see them as attractive, do you?

• Turian:

  Please be quiet. You're going to ruin asari for me. And there aren't many turian women on Illium.

• Salarian:

  Well, I suppose watching just one more dance wouldn't hurt.

• Human:

  Ha-ha-ha! That's the spirit!

• Turian:

  As long as I'm not paying for the drinks.

 

 

 

 

[Avejajed]

But the asexual spectrum is so complex. I'm not making it so, there literally exist different words for the different parts of the spectrum. Grey-asexual, Asexual, Demisexual. All part of the spectrum, but still quite different. Not everyone uses these terms, but they are there for a reason. I'd be fine with a companion of any one of those three 'options', simply because it would be a first to even have something like this. And that would be awesome~

 

I wasn't referring to you. I wasn't referring to anyone, specifically. I was referring to our natures as human beings to sometimes see more there than there really is.

[Miss This or That]

I wasn't referring to you.

 

Oh, then I'm sorry. It just seemed like it because we were having that conversation and then you spoke about complexity and the lack of it. I'm sorry. =)

[Cee]

For me, it's mostly to do with how mods either create or erase representation for groups that are typically not recognised or represented in media.

 

A mod that makes a straight character bisexual or gay is creating a space for a marginalised group; it's allowing people who do not normally have the opportunity to see themselves represented to create a space for themselves. It's adding something. A mod that makes a gay character straight (most especially in the case of Dorian, whose sexuality is so intrinsically tied to his characterisation) is erasing or denying that representation. It's taking something away.

 

I really don't care what people want to do with their own games or their own lives, but this is why I, personally, would never mod a gay/bi character to be straight. Erasing their identities to suit myself, when, as a straight woman, I already have so many opportunities to be represented and catered to, feels wrong.

 

This is the reason, pretty much. It's representation/changing a marginalized person and about changing something that's integral to someone's character. Dorian's character and his experience and inner and parental conflicts, a lot of that is because he's gay. Making a bi Dorian mod is pure erasure. Maybe it makes some player happy, and yes it's all done in private, but it takes someone for whom sexuality is very important to his character, and changes that. Ehhhh.

[roselavellan]

Codex text

The pages of this book—memory?—describe a pair playing, colliding in the air, bodies formed for kissing, stroking lines of heat as molten as the sun. The dance is fluid, roiling, never ending, lovers tangled in a laughing knot that rolls on for years, a promise never to be parted, whatever ages come.

 

An annoyed thought intrudes, from one who marked this memory after it was recorded:

"By the gods, find a private chamber!"

 

Headcannoning that this is Solas & Lavellan's spirits.  They got separated somehow and now they are trying to reconnect.  At least till the next game when I'm proven wrong...but dangit it's everything I want for them. 

 

I love that. If Solas and Lavellan have to die, I fervently hope that is what their spirits will have in the Fade. An eternity of love-making 

[Avejajed]

Oh, then I'm sorry. It just seemed like it because we were having that conversation and then you spoke about complexity and the lack of it. I'm sorry. =)

 

It wasn't about that particular conversation- but ones we've all had here recently, on sexuality, headcanon, did-he-or-didn't-he, all of it. I think sometimes we read too much into the intent behind something, or too much on the particulars, the details, when I think most of the time, they leave it up to us on purpose. But we still spend our time tearing every little thing apart trying to prove our headcanon is right, when really we should learn to be content in our own beliefs and leave other people out of it. We complicate things so much it takes the enjoyment out of what we do know.

[Moirin]

I'm genuinely confused about the whole hostility towards modders who create the "equal opportunity" mods for characters, and I'm noticing it especially towards gay characters. As far as I'm aware, no one loses their **** over a mod that lets Solas be romancable by men or other races, but people seem to freak out if Dorian or Sera are made bi through these mods.

 

I just don't get it; it's a mod, not canon. Your representation isn't made null with the existence of these mods. They're for fun, for people who want them, just like every other damn mod that changes something with a character. Now if an official update released by BioWare did something like this, then I'd understand.

 

It just seems hypocritical. "Ah, yes, a mod that makes Solas bi, yes, wonderful. WHAT! A mod that makes Dorian bi?! RRAAAAGGGEEEE!"

 

Disclaimer: I'm not saying anyone here holds these particular views, but if you do I'd love to hear why. I'm all up for broadening my horizon and I'm sure I'm probably missing something.

 

To be honest I dislike all types of mods that change ANY character's sexuality. I don't get mad about it, people are gonna do what they are gonna do, no point in me raging over something I can't change. That being said I dislike them because a persons sexuality is their sexuality and it should be respected no matter what it is. Forcing a character to change just so you can romance with who you want is disrespectful in my opinion.

 

If I took some of these players PCs and decided I didn't like the sexuality that they chose for them and I was gonna change that just so I can romance them with my PC I bet they would feel insulted too.

 

I'm one of those people that if I want to romance a character bad enough I just roll what is needed to romance them. Like Dorian was my first time playing a M/M romance, and it ended up being my second favorite romance.

 

Even with Solas. I usually prefer to play humans, I never would have ended up with a Lavellan as my main Inquisitor if not for the Solas romance.

 

EDIT: I'm the top post? Really?! SOURCE.

 

[Jayla]

It wasn't about that particular conversation- but ones we've all had here recently, on sexuality, headcanon, did-he-or-didn't-he, all of it. I think sometimes we read too much into the intent behind something, or too much on the particulars, the details, when I think most of the time, they leave it up to us on purpose. But we still spend our time tearing every little thing apart trying to prove our headcanon is right, when really we should learn to be content in our own beliefs and leave other people out of it. We complicate things so much it takes the enjoyment out of what we do know.

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

This is the reason, pretty much. It's representation/changing a marginalized person and about changing something that's integral to someone's character. Dorian's character and his experience and inner and parental conflicts, a lot of that is because he's gay. Making a bi Dorian mod is pure erasure. Maybe it makes some player happy, and yes it's all done in private, but it takes someone for whom sexuality is very important to his character, and changes that. Ehhhh.

 

I get that perspective, and I think it's a reasonable one.  Still not a valid reason to go after the modders, IMO.  Or even the fanfiction/fanart creators who play around with characters' sexualities.  People do mods and fanworks because they love the game and want to extend the game experience.  They're not paid.  They're not BioWare employees.  They do it for love of Dragon Age, for themselves and their fellow fans, and it always makes me sad when they leave the fandom because they're sick of dealing with anonymous hate.

 

 

It wasn't about that particular conversation- but ones we've all had here recently, on sexuality, headcanon, did-he-or-didn't-he, all of it. I think sometimes we read too much into the intent behind something, or too much on the particulars, the details, when I think most of the time, they leave it up to us on purpose. But we still spend our time tearing every little thing apart trying to prove our headcanon is right, when really we should learn to be content in our own beliefs and leave other people out of it. We complicate things so much it takes the enjoyment out of what we do know.

 

Human talent for pattern recognition.  Our greatest strength and weakness as a species

[Cee]

I don't think people are trying to prove their headcanons are right. The whole point of headcanon is that it's personal.

 

I keep listening to this. And got three whole lines written last night.

 

[Mims]

;; Every day that trespasser's OST is not released is another day I live in sorrow. 

[Catfishers]

I don't think people are trying to prove their headcanons are right. The whole point of headcanon is that it's personal.

 

I keep listening to this. And got three whole lines written last night.

 

Spoiler

 

And here I thought no song would make me more sad than the Thedas Love Theme.

How naive. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

;; Every day that trespasser's OST is not released is another day I live in sorrow.

 
I really hope we can get the music for Jaws, Descent, and Trespasser.  Especially Trespasser.
 
Then again, I've had the stupid Dread Wolf theme stuck in my head since last Tuesday.  So I don't need the OST; the gremlin jukebox operator in my brain seems to think I haven't felt enough sorrow

And here I thought no song would make me more sad than the Thedas Love Theme.
How naive.

Out of likes.

[Cee]

I get that perspective, and I think it's a reasonable one.  Still not a valid reason to go after the modders, IMO.  Or even the fanfiction/fanart creators who play around with characters' sexualities.  People do mods and fanworks because they love the game and want to extend the game experience.  They're not paid.  They're not BioWare employees.  They do it for love of Dragon Age, for themselves and their fellow fans, and it always makes me sad when they leave the fandom because they're sick of dealing with anonymous hate.

 

Who said anything about going after modders? It's more like a negative opinion of those particular creations, which is not about their creators. Like a negative review of sorts, but people will do what they will do. Saying something negative about the actual mod isn't harassing anyone. Proper tagging helps a lot to avoid non-canon stuff and things like this though. But no one should be harassed in general.

 

I've just about nailed down my concept for mage m!Lavellan to romance Cassandra. So I'm making my first DA man.