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[midnight tea]

Uh blegh blegh blegh blegh

I DESPISE reincarnation twists in romances! It cheapens the romance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*remembers to respect other people's interests and opinions*

*clears throat*

What I mean to say is, in my personal opinion I find that reincarnation takes away from the love between the two characters. It is as if instead loving them for who they are they love them because they are meant to and have no control over said love. 

 

 

What do you mean "reincarnation"?

 

All/most people of Thedas seem to embody some kind of spirit. Cassandra appears to embody Faith, Cole is Compassion, Solas is Wisdom/Pride - it just happens that Inquisitor may embody a pretty rare spirit, but it depends on us (them) whether they actually have will and resolve to reach their potential.

 

Just like Inquisitor, so does Cassandra, Cole and Solas have an opportunity to fail or be twisted against their core values and principles, or never reach their potential - yet what defines or drives them doesn't necessarily directs all their decisions or is limited to one trait. Humans/elves/else are more complex beings than 'simple' spirits themselves and can be defined by many things.

 

It's like Leliana told to Inky (I paraphrase here) - "I have been many things in life: spymaster, bard, left hand... yet now I understand that I am all this, yet I'm defined by none". Same with Inky or others: just because they can have a defining trait doesn't mean that they don't choose how to express it, or even express it at all.

[_Lucinia]

Incarnation isn't reincarnation.

 

I saw what they said as her having a Hope spirit as part of her.  Not her being a reincarnated spirit.  He seems to bond to spirits more than people.  Spirits are people to him.  So he could bond to her so easily because she reminded him of spirits.  I thought that was what they were saying.

[NeverlandHunter]

Which I'm perfectly fine with as a metaphor  Not everything Solas says has to be twenty layers deep.

 

Again, just my bugaboo.  Still pissed at ME3 for that one.

 

Think of it like drinking from the Well.  Everything you do, and moreover everything you have done, is now influenced by that spirit of Hope.  That bugs me, because it can be used to justify taking control away from the player.  You want to play an *******?  Sorry.  Hope happens anyway even though it makes no damn sense.  

 

If the spirit influence had been the case from the beginning, I would have been upset, but I would have worked around it.  I don't mind constraints upon character creation like Herald or Inquisitor.  I'm perfectly happy to play characters like Adam Jensen, where I have no CC or customization.  But giving me freedom over what the character's fundamental nature is, and then taking that away?  Not ok.

You took the words out of my mouth Sable Rhapsody, nobody controls my Inquisitor except for me!! 

...

and Mythal now too presumably, since I had Lavellan drink from the Well.

[The Lone Shadow]

The Inquisitor, I have always thought, is kind of this beacon of hope to people (Wouldn't it be cool if the thing about their spirit that Solas sees as special, is because they actually are some sort of incarnation of a spirit of Hope, or touched by one? ), and has the strength and character to make changes and inspire, has good insights and perspective. Solas needs someone like that in his life, or he wouldn't have been been visiting a spirit of Wisdom on a regular basis before it died.

 

I think that whole, beacon of hope thing is projection. People see the Quizz as a beacon of hope because they want to see it and they see her/him as a religious symbol. A hero in their hour of need. Instead of the Quizz being a spirit of Hope or touched by one. After all, it would be hard to imagine my first Lavellan being a Hope spirit when she is constantly thinking "We are all going to die and nothing I do will change the world for the better."

 

If I had to pick spirits for them: My first Lavellan would be a Spirit of Courage, since it takes courage to stand up to a blighted dragon and keep going all the while having all these negative thoughts in you're head. Well, maybe not courage, maybe endurance would be a better trait. Lavellan would have to have endurance in order to keep going through all the crap they had to go through.

[Shari'El]

They were replying to this comment and agreeing with it    

 

Well it's kind of different from reincarnation, since that would suggest a dead person's spirit/soul coming back as a new one.

Which I dislike as well.

I think in what you quoted the meaning was embodiment of a spirit of hope.

[nikki-tikki]

Mine is going to be pretty much all in, unless things become just plain so out there terrible that she'd completely compromise herself and do something horrible. It depends, but I came away from Trespasser with hope.

 

wow spoiler fail....

 

but i don't understand this logic...

[NeverlandHunter]

What do you mean "reincarnation"?

 

All/most people of Thedas seem to embody some kind of spirit. Cassandra appears to embody Faith, Cole is Compassion, Solas is Wisdom/Pride - it just happens that Inquisitor may embody a pretty rare spirit, but it depends on us (them) whether they actually have will and resolve to reach their potential.

 

Just like Inquisitor, so does Cassandra, Cole and Solas have an opportunity to fail or be twisted against their core values and principles, or never reach their potential - yet what defines or drives them doesn't necessarily directs all their decisions or is limited to one trait. Humans/elves/else are more complex beings than 'simple' spirits themselves and can be defined by many things.

 

It's like Leliana told to Inky (I paraphrase here) - "I have been many things in life: spymaster, bard, left hand... yet now I understand that I am all this, yet I'm defined by none". Same with Inky or others: just because they can have a defining trait doesn't mean that they don't choose how to express it, or even express it at all.

Well dawnstonespirit had mentioned the Inquisitor being an incarnation of hope, since you bolded it I presumed you agreed. Unless you meant the just touched by hope part. Which either way, I still say cheapens the romance and the Inquisitor's actions as a whole. 

 

But this is just my personal opinion, I rather BioWare not go this way(really really really rather not), but if that's the way you like to see it more power to you! It's just like the Solasbabydaddy thing, I really don't want it in the game, I don't like it, but there is nothing wrong with other people liking it.... .... ... ^{_{just it being canon in the game}}

[NeverlandHunter]

Incarnation isn't reincarnation.

 

I saw what they said as her having a Hope spirit as part of her.  Not her being a reincarnated spirit.  He seems to bond to spirits more than people.  Spirits are people to him.  So he could bond to her so easily because she reminded him of spirits.  I thought that was what they were saying.

My mistake then....

Um, so what is the difference exactly?

 

Edit: Looked it up, still don't like. All my previous points still stand. This is just my personal preference.

Modifié par NeverlandHunter, 19 septembre 2015 - 01:42 .

[MayriyaNoori]

 

Mine is going to be pretty much all in, unless things become just plain so out there terrible that she'd completely compromise herself and do something horrible. It depends, but I came away from Trespasser with hope.

 

You mean to say you're not intrigued?!?!?!?

[Shari'El]

wow spoiler fail....

 

[spoiler]

It's okay, we stopped spoiler-tagging yesterday.

Feel free to spoiler fail as much as you want

[\spoiler]

[NeverlandHunter]

I think that whole, beacon of hope thing is projection. People see the Quizz as a beacon of hope because they want to see it and they see her/him as a religious symbol. A hero in their hour of need. Instead of the Quizz being a spirit of Hope or touched by one. After all, it would be hard to imagine my first Lavellan being a Hope spirit when she is constantly thinking "We are all going to die and nothing I do will change the world for the better."

 

If I had to pick spirits for them: My first Lavellan would be a Spirit of Courage, since it takes courage to stand up to a blighted dragon and keep going all the while having all these negative thoughts in you're head. Well, maybe not courage, maybe endurance would be a better trait. Lavellan would have to have endurance in order to keep going through all the crap they had to go through.

My Lavellan is a Spirit of Emotional Baggage and Contradictory Feelings

 

Solas you a**hole, I'll never forgive you!!

Solas pleeeeaaaasssseeee come baaaack tooo meeee!!

I don't need no man.

But I need an elf, Solas we can overcome this together!

[midnight tea]

Think of it like drinking from the Well.  Everything you do, and moreover everything you have done, is now influenced by that spirit of Hope.  That bugs me, because it can be used to justify taking control away from the player.  You want to play an *******?  Sorry.  Hope happens anyway even though it makes no damn sense.  

 

Hope happens anyway, just like Inquisitor happens anyway. Something seems to either drive or set things in a way that they succeed, even Assquisitors.

 

Varric at some point even lists all of our impossible accomplishments and tells us - one of those things would be impossible; all of them together? It's a goddamn miracle!

 

And personally I actually prefer to think that it's something emanating from within (even if initially Quizzies were indeed steered by greater power), rather than us being a pawn in a game we never really had any control over.

 

In any case - I don't see it embodying Hope as a problem. I don't really want to go into an elaborate philosophical debate about free will or illusion of it, because I don't think I'm in proper headspace for it, but I don't find being Hope in any way limiting, just like I don't find being of certain background or being picked by fate or chance to wield the Anchor as limiting. It's just part of the story's landscape.

 

 

 

If the spirit influence had been the case from the beginning, I would have been upset, but I would have worked around it.  I don't mind constraints upon character creation like Herald or Inquisitor.  I'm perfectly happy to play characters like Adam Jensen, where I have no CC or customization.  But giving me freedom over what the character's fundamental nature is, and then taking that away?  Not ok.

 

I don't see it as any threat to 'fundamental nature' whatsoever - especially that it's been told/implied many times that 'fundamental nature' can be changed, twisted or never reached. Even Solas, a grouchy pessimist, doesn't respond when Varric asks him if he truly believes that nobody can change their nature by wishing.

 

From the way I see it, Inquisitor is given a chance to either fall, never really get anywhere in terms of internal development or is given a rare chance to become something greater. Even if they don't embody Hope per se, they likely can 'channel' it  or connect with it, the way Cassandra does with spirit of Faith thanks to her own defining trait. The story is set up for Quizzies (including Assquizzies) to give people at least a modicum of hope anyway. I don't see what's wrong with going a step further with this.

[NeverlandHunter]

 

[spoiler]

It's okay, we stopped spoiler-tagging yesterday.

Feel free to spoiler fail as much as you want

[\spoiler]

 

Lol.

[Shari'El]

Lol.

 

[dawnstone]

They were replying to this comment and agreeing with it    

I said nothing about reincarnation, I said an incarnation, in which whom Solas likely saw something he could connect with not necessarily a familiar friend. It is canon though that spirits are constantly destroyed and reform in the Fade with no memory of their past selves, and that spirits can take corporeal form, and implied that people have souls/spirits, so I guess take that as you will.

[Orleans87]

I have been stalking this forum for a while now and cant just hold it in any longer.

 

This is my favorite romance of all times and at the same time I feel used and betrayed. SO MANY FEEELSSSS

No other romance has made me feel this way. My chest felt constricted and I was crying, what the hell???

Now after my Lavellans heart was broken again by this stupid sexy egg head, I feel numb. The only thing I can think about is Solas and DA4. This is totally nuts

The speculations in the forum are driving me crazy as well. I dont wanna hear about a past Mythal/Solas romance. NOOOOOOOO

 

I cant see how Bioware is gonna pull a new protagonist out of their creative butts without cheapening a confrontation between Solas and some random new PC who doesnt know him on a personal level. I just want Quizzy to return. The last scene of Trespasser suggests as much but I wont get my hopes up. 

What I would love to see in DA4 would be a scene where Solas approaches Lavellan on his own to maybe make her stop messing up his plans and he is just so overwhelmed by Quizzy that he cant hold on to himself anymore and they finally do the beasts with two backs

LET ME DREAM!!

 

My Lavellan wont ever break up with him, also because I want to see how it ends but I'm getting slowly annoyed by Lavellan running after him like a love sick puppy just for him to refuse her a possible third time in DA4. I dont think my heart could take that.

 

I just had a terrible thought. Can you imagine a scene in DA4 where Mythal/Morrigan meets Solas, in front of romanced Lavellan, to do the head nudge again. I would f****ing scream and die!

 

I apologize for my rambling and insufficient english but all my emotions were bottled up and i needed to let out steam

[Mims]

The game does suggest that elves are [or descend from] some kind of manifested spirit. So there may be more to elves than what we are capable of seeing with the veil up. Including Lavellan. 

 

But even if that's true, I doubt 'born' elves function the same way as first generation spirits [ala Cole], or fade spirits. Kind of like a wolf isn't a dog, even though they're technically genetically identical in many regards. A spirit originates from the fade, a world that is completely different from the 'living' world. A spirit, according to the codexes in Trespasser, would observe the world and eventually make the journey into being solid. 

 

Look at Cole. He's a spirit of compassion, but in order to become 'mortal', he has to put aside the what made him spirit like in order to become human. So, even if Lavellan was say...a spirit of X. They are starting at the opposite end of the spectrum. They'd have to essentially drop parts of 'humanity', in order to become more spirit like. Which most aren't going to do. 

 

And we don't even know if a reverse trip is even possible, since it could easily be that the spirit qualities got bred out of the modern elves. [And, could even explain why a slave caste originated in Arlathan.]

 

 

 

Disclaimer; I am not sure anything I just said made any sense. 

[The Lone Shadow]

My Lavellan is a Spirit of Emotional Baggage and Contradictory Feelings

 

Solas you a**hole, I'll never forgive you!!

Solas pleeeeaaaasssseeee come baaaack tooo meeee!!

I don't need no man.

But I need an elf, Solas we can overcome this together!

 

Lol.

 

Hawke is already the Spirit of Emotional Baggage and Snarky Comebacks.

[NeverlandHunter]

Hope happens anyway, just like Inquisitor happens anyway. Something seems to either drive or set things in a way that they succeed, even Assquisitors.

 

Varric at some point even lists all of our impossible accomplishments and tells us - one of those things would be impossible; all of them together? It's a goddamn miracle!

 

And personally I actually prefer to think that it's something emanating from within (even if initially Quizzies were indeed steered by greater power), rather than us being a pawn in a game we never really had control over.

 

In any case - I don't see it embodying Hope as a problem. I don't really want to go into an elaborate philosophical debate about free will or illusion of it, because I don't think I'm in proper headspace for it, but I don't find being Hope in any way limiting, just like I don't find being of certain background or being picked by fate or chance to wield the Anchor as limiting. It's just part of the story's landscape.

 

 

I don't see it as any threat to 'fundamental nature' whatsoever - especially that it's been told/implied many times that 'fundamental nature' can be changed, twisted or never reached. Even Solas, a grouchy pessimist, doesn't respond when Varric asks him if he truly believes that nobody can change their nature by wishing.

 

From the way I see it, Inquisitor is given a chance to either fall, never really get anywhere in terms of internal development or is given a rare chance to become something greater. Even if they don't embody Hope per se, they likely can 'channel' it  or connect with it, the way Cassandra does with spirit of Faith thanks to her own defining trait. The story is set up for Quizzies (including Assquizzies) to give people at least a modicum of hope anyway. I don't see what's wrong with going a step further with this.

The Inquisitor is controlled by a higher power-- me!

 

Uh, Fate, Destiny. Inevitability. You guys can shove off because I'm having none of that. Telanadas.

[NeverlandHunter]

I have been stalking this forum for a while now and cant just hold it in any longer.

 

This is my favorite romance of all times and at the same time I feel used and betrayed. SO MANY FEEELSSSS

No other romance has made me feel this way. My chest felt constricted and I was crying, what the hell???

Now after my Lavellans heart was broken again by this stupid sexy egg head, I feel numb. The only thing I can think about is Solas and DA4. This is totally nuts

The speculations in the forum are driving me crazy as well. I dont wanna hear about a past Mythal/Solas romance. NOOOOOOOO

 

I cant see how Bioware is gonna pull a new protagonist out of their creative butts without cheapening a confrontation between Solas and some random new PC who doesnt know him on a personal level. I just want Quizzy to return. The last scene of Trespasser suggests as much but I wont get my hopes up. 

What I would love to see in DA4 would be a scene where Solas approaches Lavellan on his own to maybe make her stop messing up his plans and he is just so overwhelmed by Quizzy that he cant hold on to himself anymore and they finally do the beasts with two backs

LET ME DREAM!!

 

My Lavellan wont ever break up with him, also because I want to see how it ends but I'm getting slowly annoyed by Lavellan running after him like a love sick puppy just for him to refuse her a possible third time in DA4. I dont think my heart could take that.

 

I just had a terrible thought. Can you imagine a scene in DA4 where Mythal/Morrigan meets Solas, in front of romanced Lavellan, to do the head nudge again. I would f****ing scream and die!

 

I apologize for my rambling and insufficient english but all my emotions were bottled up and i needed to let out steam

THIS!

And we know your feelings! It's okay, shhh, everything will be okay *pats head* Solas was never in a romantic relationship with Mythal and your Inquisitor will get to confront him again in the next game and change his mind. It's all going to be alright.

[The Lone Shadow]

 

What I would love to see in DA4 would be a scene where Solas approaches Lavellan on his own to maybe make her stop messing up his plans and he is just so overwhelmed by Quizzy that he cant hold on to himself anymore and they finally do the beasts with two backs

 

I can't help but think if he tried that with my new Lavellan, that she would punch him in the face or where his mini staff is kept and yell at him that there won't be any frikle frakle until he gets his act together and stops being an ahole. Like telling a dog, no you're not getting a cookie until you stop peeing on the carpet. 

[dawnstone]

Incarnation isn't reincarnation.

 

I saw what they said as her having a Hope spirit as part of her.  Not her being a reincarnated spirit.  He seems to bond to spirits more than people.  Spirits are people to him.  So he could bond to her so easily because she reminded him of spirits.  I thought that was what they were saying.

Yes, basically, but it's just a headcanon I have been nurturing. I can see that people don't like having any quality forced upon their character, and the PCs in DA:I are about as blank-slate as you can get, which is great for RP purposes, and more power to that I say.

[The Lone Shadow]

Also, I feel like if the Quizz is a spirit of Hope that that would cheapen their character a bit. I like thinking that my character was a random nobody who somehow, in spite of impossible odds, was able to overcome all those obstacles.

[NeverlandHunter]

Lol.

 

Hawke is already the Spirit of Emotional Baggage and Snarky Comebacks.

Oh yes, all hail Hawke Queen (or King) of Snark may s/he ever continue to snark away

We should have a snarkiest comments appreciation day  across the games the writers gave characters really good burns and "oh no he didn't"s

[midnight tea]

The Inquisitor is controlled by a higher power-- me!

 

Uh, Fate, Destiny. Inevitability. You guys can shove off because I'm having none of that. Telanadas.

 

 

LOL, what if Quizzy as Hope exists to CHANGE the inevitable?

Ever thought of that? 

Because I totally think this is happening as well. 

 

Also - destiny or fate can mean many things. They can mean things that will happen no matter of individual input or reaching one's ultimate potential. Perhaps this is what Flemeth meant when she said "We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment... and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly."