153429 réponses à ce sujet

[dawnstone]

Can't speak for others, but for me it would just take away from his/her story, since originally it was that we were ordinary people that either were singled out as special by andraste, for her maybe recognizing our natural potential, or us stepping up to the plate when chance threw us in a position to change the world.

 

For me, if my character has some special spirit he was born with, then some of what makes him awesome isn't really him as a man. It's like how people say Jesus had an advantage over us lowly humans because he was the son of God/was God.

See, I'm coming to it from the perspective that everyone has an innate spirit because of the nature of the canon - if people are spirits and spirits are people, everyone has/is one whether they know it or not, has a soul/spirit that can be sundered from their body, aka Tranquilized (except maybe dwarves, this is something I'd love to know more about - why they aren't Tranquil when they have no connection to the Fade?).

 

This makes Solas trying to replace this world with his doubly ridiculous, because if spirits are people and people are spirits, he's not fixing anything he's just making it different again - who knows, maybe the human race will just be made even stronger with that much more magic to throw around.

[drosophila]

By the time we actually get news/a new game, Solas will likely have 100 new attributions and plans thanks to the wait time for theorycrafting.

 

Am I the only one who just wants to see Solas as a normal man who screwed up

[Colonelkillabee]

See, I'm coming to it from the perspective that everyone has an innate spirit because of the nature of the canon - if people are spirits and spirits are people, everyone has/is one whether they know it or not, has a soul/spirit that can be sundered from their body, aka Tranquilized (except maybe dwarves, this is something I'd love to know more about - why they aren't Tranquil when they have no connection to the Fade).

 

This makes Solas trying to replace this world with his doubly ridiculous, because if spirits are people and people are spirits, he's not fixing anything he's just making it different again - who knows, maybe the human race will just be made even stronger with that much more magic to throw around.

 

At this point, the classification of spirit and non spirit loses meaning, don't you think? Though maybe that's the point.

[midnight tea]

But they might very well not being devinly driven (unless it turns out the whole Maker thing is true) and it did take concuious effort. It took the Quizz to decide to save the Devine when she heard them cry out for help, and it was their actions that led them to survive Haven. Its like one of the responces you can give to Spirit Justinia after collecting all you're memories. "I did this all on my own, no Maker required."

 

....Did it really take conscious effort, when even Assquizzies are shown to help the Divine? Same with Haven - even the worst of Quizzies decide (either for altruistic or selfish reasons) to take the stance against Corypheus. Their input seems to not matter at all - what matters is the outcome. There's hardly any agency here, merely an illusion of one.

 

Also - Inquisitor saying that "they did it on their own" merely reflects what they THINK has happened (we get that dialogue option only for non-believer Quizzies), or at least that there was no obvious presence of any Divine force when they rushed in to disrupt Corypheus' ritual... even if absolutely everything before that happened because some higher power orchestrated it that way - their appearance in the Conclave or the surprising fact that only them (which is especially strange if Inky is a Dalish or Carta spy) for some inexplicable reason stumbled upon a ritual in the middle of a temple, during an incredibly important and heavily attended summit... What, did they get lost while searching for restroom or something?

 

Anyway, I'm not claiming that absolutely everything has been orchestrated (I'd like to think that a lot of it an intriguing mix of both fate and chance), but it IS a possibility we can't rule out, especially given our current knowledge of at least some elvhen gods meddling in human affairs and setting the stage up, as well as strange events surrounding existence of spirit!Justinia or spirit!Leliana, or things like Valta apparently being destined to reach the sleeping Titan.

[NeverlandHunter]

 

 

Yes, yes - I'm being an insufferable smartass, I know 

Not insufferably! I might be in a minority but I'm rather fond of smartassery, sarcastic witticisms, and loving doses of snark in comments and arguments even when targeted at me.

 

Solas.....once the epitome of Hope, Wisdom and Freedom. He inspired all with his presence and good works.

 

And then folks starting actin' a fool and he turned into Despair, Pride and Crazy and made the terrible decision of altering the very fabric of space and time.

 

Seriuosly, who alters the fabric of Space and Time and doesn't sit for a minute and think of the consequences?!?!?!?!

 

It is meaningless. We endure.

 

I need sleep. Off to uthenera folks.

 

Ancient elven gods powerful mages hobos with a distaste for tea, musical voices, and some serious people issues.

 

Goodnight! 

 

Also, just noticed that uthenera sounds like euthanize.

[The Lone Shadow]

 

 

This makes Solas trying to replace this world with his doubly ridiculous, because if spirits are people and people are spirits, he's not fixing anything he's just making it different again - who knows, maybe the human race will just be made even stronger with that much more magic to throw around.

 

I both hope not and doubt that will be the case. I think it will be like the inside of the Eluvians, elves get stronger and humans grow weaker.

[Elessara]

....Did it really take conscious effort, when even Assquizzies are shown to help the Divine? Same with Haven - even the worst of Quizzies decide (either for altruistic or selfish reasons) to take the stance against Corypheus. Their input seems to not matter at all - what matters is the outcome. There's hardly any agency here, merely an illusion of one.

 

Also - Inquisitor saying that "they did it on their own" merely reflects what they THINK has happened (we get that dialogue option only for non-believer Quizzies), or at least that there was no obvious presence of any Divine force when they rushed in to disrupt Corypheus' ritual... even if absolutely everything before that happened because some higher power orchestrated it that way - their appearance in the Conclave or the surprising fact that only them (which is especially strange if Inky is a Dalish or Carta spy) for some inexplicable reason stumbled upon a ritual in the middle of a temple, during an incredibly important and heavily attended summit... What, did they get lost while searching for restroom or something?

 

Anyway, I'm not claiming that absolutely everything has been orchestrated (I'd like to think that a lot of it an intriguing mix of both fate and chance), but it IS a possibility we can't rule out, especially given our current knowledge of at least some elvhen gods meddling in human affairs and setting the stage up, as well as strange events surrounding existence of spirit!Justinia or spirit!Leliana, or things like Valta apparently being destined to reach the sleeping Titan.

 

 

To quote Flemeth, "Is it fate or chance?  I can never decide."

[CuriousArtemis]

Interesting discussion... I have played and written my Lavellan as not being particularly special... not overly brave or courageous or a naturally gifted leader, not a great thinker or philosopher, not stupid but not astonishingly intelligent. I think his greatest personality trait is compassion, and possibly also a willingness to listen and understand others.

 

What I most like about Solas's "If the Dalish can raise a person with a spirit like yours..." is that you can headcanon whatever special trait it is he fell in love with.... so for me he was surprised to find a young Dalish who was sort of gently curious about other people and willing to learn about others and help them, while still caring about his own culture. 

 

I know that is all a little OT but it is just something that came to me as I was browsing through the last two pages

[dawnstone]

At this point, the classification of spirit and non spirit loses meaning, don't you think? Though maybe that's the point.

Yes, which is why I don't see why people think it affects player agency to have a spirit. Perhaps it is just having a defining essence that they are rejecting, which I can understand. Nobody just wants to be That Hope Guy.

 

You are a person in Thedas though, where most people literally have souls that can be cut off from their bodies rendering them into feelingless automatons - basically, at birth you have a spirit whether you want one or not.

 

Quizzy, citizen of Thedas, just happens to have been singled out and is given the choice whether to rise to the challenges before them - and it is explicitly in canon that the feelings of other people shape spirits, so if 1,000 people have dumped all of their hopes onto an otherwise boring individual, maybe their spirit is going to absorb and reflect that emotion more strongly - so perhaps even if you didn't start out that way, maybe you could become spiritually stronger that way from outside influence. Again, the problem with this idea, is dwarves, because its unknown if they have spirits/souls in the same way to humans, elves or qunari.

[Avejajed]

I'll take it, lol.


Awww

Oh look who decided to show up. You figured out we had a open bar tonight?

[Cee]

Am I the only one who just wants to see Solas as a normal man who screwed up

 

Well, normal is clearly relative, but yes, the tragedy, the regret, the feels, the layers of sad. That's what I'm here for. I don't want it to be way, way overcomplicated.

 

We clearly only have oart of the story so far, but I don't want it to veer into super convoluted territory. I want more pieces to just click into place, maybe have some motives flipped or explained.

[Solas]

Just got an important answer

 

1) Zlugny qrnq ? 2) Srynffna xvyyrq ol jub 3) Zbeevtna unf Zlguny 

 

He confirmed that they're spoilers, which is something we knew. He answered deliberately non-clearly, which he often does. This is because 1) some people are still playing through Trespasser as it was only recently released and 2) they're likely plot points to be mentioned or dealt with in future games and 3) he's PW a sneaky witchthief (love him ha)

 

Is it outright stated/lampshaded in the game? No. Is it still pretty clear? Yep. I don't think Flemythal is dead - she's Flemythal. She's a powerful series staple with her own ominous agenda which has not yet been fully explored; she puts bits of herself here and there and has cheated death before.

 

As for Solas and Felassan? Where in this tweet did he confirm that Solas didn't kill him? Like, they didn't put 'the slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws' in there for no reason. It's likely Solas killed Felassan. If he didn't outright kill him, he at least killed him in the Fade rendering him tranquil. If he didn't strike the blow himself, he likely ordered it. The slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws. Like how much more is needed ahaha??? Cole basically held up a neon flashing sign. Was there some guy whose name was Orlesian for slow arrow that was killed by an Avvar wolf spirit?????? Was Cole lying? Was Cole drunk?? Like

??????????????? guys

guys i cant compute

 

Solas isn't a 100% good guy. Why are people so invested in this idea that he'd never murder his friend?? Pay attention to his characterization. He absolutely would. He is a flawed man who has done some terrible things and no, he is not above committing murder. He literally can commit murder in front of your face in the game.

[drosophila]

Well, normal is clearly relative, but yes, the tragedy, the regret, the feels, the layers of sad. That's what I'm here for. I don't want it to be way, way overcomplicated.

 

We clearly only have oart of the story so far, but I don't want it to veer into super convoluted territory. I want more pieces to just click into place, maybe have some motives flipped or explained.

 

Yes, normal is definitely realtive I meant, he's made of the same stuff as all the other ancient elves, no special attributes. I want to see him as someone incredibly common who just happened to be cocky enough and good enough at war/intrigue to rise against the mage kings who considered themselves special. 

 

I'm also not a fan of the "he was summoned from a spirit and took physical form" theory. It's not a bad theory, but until proven otherwise, I prefer to imagine he came out of a birth canal, and had a childhood, and adolescence, and youth like everyone else. Who knows, I was on team Lone Wolf and my hopes were fulfilled, so they might be with that too. 

 

I don't want the story to become very convluted either, but I'm not too worried. They did well with revealing he created the Veil and plans to destroy it. It was one of the more simple explanations that clicked into place for me. 

[Mims]

As for Solas and Felassan? Where in this tweet did he confirm that Solas didn't kill him? Like, they didn't put 'the slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws' in there for no reason. It's likely Solas killed Felassan. If he didn't outright kill him, he at least killed him in the Fade rendering him tranquil. If he didn't strike the blow himself, he likely ordered it. The slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws. Like how much more is needed ahaha??? Cole basically held up a neon flashing sign. Was there a guy whose name was Orlesian for slow arrow that was killed by an Avvar wolf spirit?????? Like

???????????????

 

Definitely agree with this. There's no way to get around what Cole said. There's no other wolf.

 

Unless...unless Fenris killed Felassan... working his way up the best elf chain...!

[Solas]

Like maybe Cole was on crack or something????? I just can't compute

slides down the keyboard halp

[Caddius]

 

[spoiler]

It's okay, we stopped spoiler-tagging yesterday.

Feel free to spoiler fail as much as you want

[\spoiler]

 

..But I just spent the last five hours multi-quoting everyone who posted without spoiler tags to ask them to spoiler tags because reasons.

Guess I should have noticed the revised thread title. 

[drosophila]

Solas isn't a 100% good guy. Why are people so invested in this idea that he'd never murder his friend?? He absolutely would. He is a flawed man who has done some terrible things and no, he is not above committing murder.

 

He was never 100% good, not even before.

 

He killed those mages in a fit of rage, even though their failiure was one of ignorance, not malice.

 

Remember that guy at the end of Calpernia's quest who was in excruciating pain and begged to die? If you choose to keep him alive let him suffer in order to interrogate him, Solas greatly approves. I remember making the choice and thinking, "Whoa, dude, I know you're pragmatic, but you'd really play to win at any cost, huh?"

 

So I think it's just burying one's head in the sand to think he didn't kill Felassan. Or that he wouldn't. But Solas does strike me as the type who, after killing him, would genuinely mourn him and hate himself for it, because that's just his twisted, desperate mode of thinking right now. 

 

Edit: Top Solas! This is the perfect post to honor our love and affection for apocalypse boyfriend with this screenshot from Solas-an. The crazier Solas gets, the crazier we get, and so var lath vir suledin!

 

[Solas]

..But I just spent the last five hours multi-quoting everyone who posted without spoiler tags to ask them to spoiler tags because reasons.

Guess I should have noticed the revised thread title. 

omg i'm so sorry 

[Sable Rhapsody]

So I think it's just burying one's head in the sand to think he didn't kill Felassan. Or that he wouldn't. But Solas does strike me as the type who, after killing him, would genuinely mourn him and hate himself for it, because that's just his twisted, desperate mode of thinking right now. 

 

Solas is a special spirit-y snowflake.  Clearly it's going great for him!  Yup.  Totally want that brand of insanity for Lavellan

[Solas]

 

 

He was never 100% good, not even before.

 

He killed those mages in a fit of rage, even though their failiure was one of ignorance, not malice.

 

Remember that guy at the end of Calpernia's quest who was in excruciating pain and begged to die? If you choose to keep him alive let him suffer in order to interrogate him, Solas greatly approves. I remember making the choice and thinking, "Whoa, dude, I know you're pragmatic, but you'd really play to win at any cost, huh?"

 

So I think it's just burying one's head in the sand to think he didn't kill Felassan. Or that he wouldn't. But Solas does strike me as the type who, after killing him, would genuinely mourn him and hate himself for it, because that's just his twisted, desperate mode of thinking right now. 

Oh he definitely hated having to do it and especially now with his semirealization that Felassan was right is super regretful and wracked with guilt. He doesn't enjoy what he has to do. I get it, nobody wants to think their Fade Boyfriend could strike his friend down in cold blood.. It's curious how people are alright with a bunch of the other bad stuff Solas has done/wants to do but the Felassan thing is a particular stickler. I guess because he was his friend? Before DA:I, he was even worse than he is now, back then he didn't think modern Thedosians were people. so like. yea

[Mims]

I think there were some good reasons to doubt Solas murdered Felassan. [Pre-trespasser.] I certainly would have bet against it!

 

But, what Cole said is pretty straight forward. There's really no other way to take it, except for the possibility that Felassan might be tranquil. Which admittedly, may be why they are hesitant to say that 'Solas killed Felassan', when he might not actually be dead.

[Solas]

I think there were some good reasons to doubt Solas murdered Felassan. I certainly would have bet against it!

 

But, what Cole said is pretty straight forward. There's really no other way to take it, except for the possibility that Felassan might be tranquil. Which admittedly, may be why they are hesitant to say that 'Solas killed Felassan', when he might not actually be dead.

Yeah I certainly doubted it pre-Trespasser. Before Trespasser I was in camp He Didn't. But Cole's line is blaring lights. The potential for spoilers imo is that [HOPEFULLY weeps for my Slow Arrow bae] that it made him Tranquil not dead.

[Cee]

He was never 100% good, not even before.

 

He killed those mages in a fit of rage, even though their failiure was one of ignorance, not malice.

 

Unless you, like me, prevented him from doing so. It passed.

 

 

So I think it's just burying one's head in the sand to think he didn't kill Felassan. Or that he wouldn't. But Solas does strike me as the type who, after killing him, would genuinely mourn him and hate himself for it, because that's just his twisted, desperate mode of thinking right now.

I didn't think he did it for a few reasons. Felassan seemed afraid of whoever his master was but he also seemed like a big Fen'Harel fanboy. So it left the door open.

 

But once Cole said that, I kind of groaned, and then Solas confirmed it. It took me a little bit that night but then I realized it made perfect sense in light of everything, and to me, I take it as indicative of the Solas "before" he saw differently, before we proved him wrong with thoughtfulness and effort and perhaps love.

[_Lucinia]

He can be a big fan of Fen'Harel but still be fearful of him.  I'm sure he knew what he was capable of.

[Sable Rhapsody]

He can be a big fan of Fen'Harel but still be fearful of him.  I'm sure he knew what he was capable of.

 

Just look at Shepard.  Only one of Shep's fans is not properly terrified of the Commander, and Conrad...sticks in the memory as a result

 

 

Unless you, like me, prevented him from doing so. It passed.

 

I was actually surprised that it was so easy to snap him out of it, when he was clearly anguished and enraged.  All it took was his name.  One word, to bring him back to himself.