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[Elessara]

If Solas and Mythal were romantically involved (I don't think they were but for the sake of the hypothetical), I don't see how that's diminishing to Lavellan...?

 

I don't see how it's diminishing either.  However if Solas is attracted to Lavellan simply because she reminds him of Mythal, that would be.

[midnight tea]

Solas himself asks the Inquisitor if the anchor changed her/his morals or spirit and an implication like that just doesn't sit well with me. 

It sounds like that the Inquisitor would be under some kind of compulsion to do things he/she wouldnt normally do, or be able to accomplish the things he/she does.

This would really cheapen the character for me and especially the Solas romance, because it implies that Solas would have never looked at the little non-person twice without the guidance of a spirit through the anchor. 

 

Yes, Solas asks Inquisitor whether Anchor changed something in them, but it was his last attempt to rationalize his stance that hardly anyone could have a deep connection to the Fade/spiritual side or that it would be so strong.

 

He drops the idea in the very same conversation though - he's still baffled by Quizzy, but you can hear (in case of Lavellan) him asking "if the Dalish managed to raise a person with a spirit like yours, have I misjudged them", meaning that he accepts that Inquisitors were either born "speshul" (or they managed to retain or reach their "speshunless") despite overwhelming odds.

 

I don't think that if he thought that it was all because of the Anchor, he'd have accepted anyone as a person and said at the end of Trespasser that Inquisitor has shown him that he was wrong.

 

 

...And honestly, I'm still confused why people think having a strong spirit (especially considering that likely everyone has one/is one), even one with specific quality, in any way "cheapens" the personal accomplishment and growth of good Quizzies - having one, just like having an Anchor, doesn't mean that they're "speshul" by default, in fact they're likely more prone to corruption than your average Joe.

 

Most people with stronger connection to Fade are, after all. Mages, Dreamers, etc - all of them have a heightened risk of being either broken or possessed, either because of demons trying to get into their head or the world set against them.

 

Add to that an allure of power and prestige bestowed by the Anchor and title of the Herald, and it becomes clear how easy it is for Quizzies to falter. And we've seen that this can happen - we don't have an option to have downright "evil", but Inquisitors can be nasty, arrogant, immature, short-sighted, bellicose, gullible or just plain unimpressive. 

 

Therefore IF Quizzies indeed have a particularly strong spirit or naturally stronger connection to the Fade and it leaves them more vulnerable to fall, wouldn't their personal growth be even more impressive?

 

Personally I think that it would.

 

They might have had almost the whole world against them, they might have felt isolated, threatened, misunderstood or singled-out, yet they managed to persevere. The world didn't break them, even if it should (and Solas definitely thought that it would), in fact it perhaps managed to 'temper' their spirit and character so long as they didn't give up on it and its people.

 

Therefore they're 'speshul' not because of the Anchor, not because of the possible 'special mission from fate' and not because they might have been born "speshul" (not just in terms of spirit, but perhaps as a mage or member of nobility), but because they wanted to. Really, I'm not sure how that in any way this could "cheapen" their character.

[Catfishers]

Honestly, I think all the hubbub over Solas killing Felassan is a case of PC-centered morality.  Kind of like what Chiara Fan was talking about with revenge.  Take any Inner Circle member at random (say, Dorian for maximum ouch), and say they did something that thoroughly compromised the Inquisition's plans the way Felassan did to Solas.  And didn't feel sorry about it--even felt they now had the moral high ground.  Friend or no, how many players would have executed them in a rage?

 

Basically the whole Anders situation, really. Tonnes of players killed him for what he'd done, for a variety of reasons that made perfect sense to them.

 

It wouldn't even be out of character for Solas (what with the whole flambéed mages). If Felassan knew what Solas had planned then it would make perfect sense to execute him; he'd already demonstrated that he'd come to care for the people of this world, what would stop him turning against Solas or warning people? He'd become a dangerous loose end.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I don't see how it's diminishing either.  However if Solas is attracted to Lavellan simply because she reminds him of Mythal, that would be.

 

Yeah, I'm done playing replacement goldfish.  Had plenty of that trope in BioWare's early romances, though mercifully they seem to have stepped off on that.

[Renmiri1]

Good point. I guess it's not technically disappointing it's just... frustrating? Concerning? The thought that the people in this future don't have to be somehow 'special' to have value can't be an easy one to digest.

 

And I totally agree that I don't think he actually wants to carry out his plan. He seems to feel that it's his duty to do so, regardless of what he actually wants.

DinanShiral, journey of death

 

I think he is like Mordin in this aspect, he has to do it to redeem the errors of his past, it has to be him, someone else might do it wrong, and it is a lot more important to him than life... His love for the inquisitor doesn't count because he - Solas - only deserves death, he doesn't fell he himself deserves to be happy.

[Uirebhiril]

I don't see how it's diminishing either.  However if Solas is attracted to Lavellan simply because she reminds him of Mythal, that would be.

 

Or because if she ends up host to Mythal it would be some really creepystrange roundabout reincarnation schtick. Blech, nope.

 

I don't get the feeling they were romantically involved either, but even if they were, I don't care. Who really gets upset and angry over past relationships of someone before they were with you?

[Solas]

PW also says Solas doesn't kill unnecessarily. There was absolutely no need to kill Felassan. Solas got back the Eluvians. Solas MAY murder the 3 mages that tortured his friend and were responsible for his friend's death, out of vengeance but again, even then you can talk him out of it.  He is not above killing but killing is not something he does without reason. 

 

As for what Cole says, the sad wolf might feel responsible for Felassan's death, but it may not have been what the sad wolf ordered or wanted or did it himself. I think there is an overzealous Solas agent somewhere that killed Felassan. It fits with what Cole said, it fits with what Solas said, it fits the character much better than outright murder.

 

 And also fits the future. Stopping Solas plans by talking him out of it sounds too easy. He will just go to his mass of followers and agents and say "You know those plans I told you ? Never mind them, I changed my mind", and everyone of his followers will just go home ? No, there are some of them who believed in the mission and will question Solas and try to proceed regardless. The agent who killed Flassan in Solas name is the ideal guy to lead those people who still want to complete Solas plan. An antagonist now that Solas jumped to our side

 

I think Weekes has a lot more imagination than you are giving him credit for. Things he said are not that obvious and Solas is a lot more nuanced than black and white.

I feel like you're not listening to me and that I keep repeating myself. Have you read TME, just so I know for my clarity?

• PW says a lot of things. Some are definitely true, some are demonstrably untrue (Solas committing murder), some are deliberately misleading. Solas demonstrably does have the capacity to kill unnecessarily.
• You can talk him down from killing the mages, but the fact that that is an option does not negate the fact that he was prepared to kill them unnecessarily and that without the interference of someone he respected, would have done so. There was no Inquisitor present when he killed Felassan, and when he killed Felassan, he had not yet undergone the character development he goes through in the game with a high approval Inquisitor and by making friends with people like Cassandra.
• There absolutely was a need to kill Felassan. Felassan was his agent. As an agent he had a mission. This mission was part in a plan to set the world to rights, to save their people, to restore what was lost. Instead of completing the mission, he betrayed his boss. He went over to the other side by beginning to see them as people. He turned against Solas and literally sided with the other world, with the Not-People. He deliberately chose to fail and in so doing, he deliberately chose this world over the past world and these Not-People over Solas' own people. 1) Solas will sometimes kill purely out of desire for vengeance [demonstrable in game]. 2) Solas has demonstrated ruthlessness and tactical awareness in war games. Felassan was a loose end. He could not let this loose end, who knew him well, who knew much of his plans, who knew the way he operates, live. Felassan had to go, regrettable as it is. It's tactics during war. I don't know how else to explain this. 
• I don't think Solas kills without reason. I think he had very good reason for killing Felassan. 
• An overzealous 'Solas agent' completely robs Solas of the character development from the man who killed Felassan becoming the man in Trespasser seen with a high approval Inquisitor.
• An overzealous 'Solas agent' is reaching at straws in order to excuse Solas of a heinous act you don't want to think that he did.
• An overzealous 'Solas agent' is making things more complicated than they are. Occam's razor.
• An overzealous 'Solas agent' explicitly does not fit what Cole said better. Cole said the slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws. How does that point to someone else? Where is the scope for this so-called agent in this line? The arrow breaks in the jaws of the wolf. It's explicit.
• We have zero idea on what the future dealing with Solas and his plans will involve.
• I know you don't want it to be the case, but the murder of Felassan does fit Solas as a character, and serves a very important purpose in his characterization. Denying it actually does the character and the way he has been written a disservice. Without the killing of Felassan, we have no point of reference for Solas as he was when he had just awoken and didn't see us as people.
• I do NOT think Solas is black and white. He's painfully grey and written to be so. In fact here is a recent post where I go on at length about how grey I think he is.
• Thinking Solas killed Felassan does NOT mean I think he's black. I'm like the #1 advocate of 'Solas is nuanced and grey' hahah
• Thinking Solas killed Felassan has ZERO implications on what I think of Patrick Weekes. I love PW and his writing and I think he's very imaginative.

I like a lot of your opinions and posts on Solas! but I really think your head is in the sand on this one specific issue. Solas is a man who literally has killed hundreds (if not more) and is ready in his mind to kill or cause the death of hundreds more - even friends like high approval Inquisitor and Cass - if that's what his plans entail/require/result in. I don't understand why this is A-OK but why killing Felassan specifically is such an unthinkable scenario. I don't want it to be have been him, it pains me greatly that the man my Inquisitor came to love and a character I like so much killed his friend, a friend who is my favorite extended universe character now that Cole was in a game. But it fits the hints given and the narrative. If it wasn't him I will be super happy, welcome it, and eat my hat. 

 

Nobody seems to argue that Leliana was OOC and being piloted by a pod-person in wanting to kill that agent of hers back at Haven??? I suspect that's because in DA:I we can't bang her and she wasn't our beloved ~vhenan~.

[Moirin]

You rogue Lavellan and my rogue Lavellan are pretty much the same. Both have twins (in my case a twin brother) who are mages and though I don't see her being close to her Keeper, she also has a cousin who is a mage as well. So she's quite accustomed to being around magic but is also curious about it and wants to know more.

 

Ha. My Lavellan is a mage that has a twin that is a rogue. She also has two older sisters, also twins (each others twins, not her twins), also rogues/hunters. Actually I kinda went off onto the crazy planning stage and came up with/plotted out my Lavellan's entire clan.

[dawnstone]

I don't see how it's diminishing either.  However if Solas is attracted to Lavellan simply because she reminds him of Mythal, that would be.

There are parallels to be drawn though - he is looking for wisdom, is looking for someone to look up to, for guidance while he is in such a troubled mental state. I don't think that it's necessarily that he sees them as Mythal, but rather someone (like her) whom he is forced to acknowledge as a powerful, admirable person in their own right, and who has answers that he can't find for himself because of his various flaws and myopic tendencies.

[Mims]

Just to sort of add to this thought. The line is: 'His friend had to die, because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws.' 

 

'His friend had to die'. No ambiguity there. It sets up that Solas saw him as a friend, but he chose to kill him. That's not killing for no reason, the first line says exactly why the wolf chose for him to die. 

 

'A slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws.' The arrow is actively breaking in the wolf's jaws. The wolf isn't holding the arrow. He's breaking it. The ownership sits squarely upon the wolf. If we were talking about this in a broader literary perspective- being in the 'wolf's jaws' is never considered a good thing. Even the word 'jaws' suggests violence. 

 

We may yet learn of extenuating circumstances. Maybe Felassan was a bit of a loose cannon. Maybe Felassan isn't quite dead. But it doesn't change the fact that Solas almost certainly killed him. And if he made him tranquil, then arguably he condemned his friend to a fate even worse than death. 

[Solas]

I don't want it to be have been him, it pains me greatly that the man my Inquisitor came to love and a character I like so much killed his friend, a friend who is my favorite extended universe character now that Cole was in a game. So like I'm not defending the notion because I'm invested in it from an emotional standpoint. But it fits the hints given and the narrative. If it wasn't him I will be super happy, welcome it, and eat my hat. 

 

And again the killing of Felassan is a super super important moment in Solas' character development. Without it we have no immediate point of reference for the man who didn't see the people of this world as people, without it we simply have to imagine that man. Without it Solas doesn't have a clear 'starting point' in his journey from 'they're not people I don't care about them' through DA:I to the incredibly sad, world-weary and regretful man in Trespasser who is clearly wracked to hell and back with guilt over what he's done and is planning to do and who wants to be convinced otherwise and swayed from his course by highapproval Quiz. 

[Kadan]

(I've been lurking the past week, school started back up and sucks away my free time.)

 

I just finished reading TME so I feel I have some perspective on the character, where before he was simply mentioned in the DLC.

 

Felassan Absolutely knew what would happen if he failed. He knew there would be no pleading for his life, he was given a task and he not only failed but refused to get the information. There is no doubt at least to my mind, that he was meeting DW in the Fade. He contemplates hiding, living a life looking over his shoulder, but he'll be dammed if he's going to show less honor that a human (Michel)

 

This is also the Solas that would have destroyed the world at the beginning of DA:I if Cory had died like he was supposed to. He is at that point single minded in his goals. Unlock the orb and tear down the veil. I think this was something he intended to do soon after locking the gods away but was too weak. Far weaker than he expected to be.

 

I think that something that Felassan said to him is the reason he attempted to contact the Dalish. To see if it was possible for him to connect with this new race of elves, diminished as they are. But they reject him, and I gather it was quite hostilely, so he is even more resolved to continue with his plan. Had he not been forced to spend an entire year with the Inquisition to attempt to recover his orb I doubt his view would have changed.

[Jayla]

Solas (MJ) stop eating all my likes. I need them for seducing. D:

[Solas]

Solas (MJ) stop eating all my likes. I need them for seducing. D:

they sustain me

[Solas]

TME took place before Inquisition, so if he did kill Felassan for beginning to see people as real, you have to remember Solas had yet to meet the Herald/Inquisitor and have them change his perspective. Only after romancing Lavellan or being a best friend to the other races, did Solas begin to understand what Felassan felt and it scared him so he ran away instead of killing them.

Yes I know. This is what I mean by: 'And again the killing of Felassan is a super super important moment in Solas' character development. Without it we have no immediate point of reference for the man who didn't see the people of this world as people, without it we simply have to imagine that man. Without it Solas doesn't have a clear 'starting point' in his journey from 'they're not people I don't care about them' through DA:I to the incredibly sad, world-weary and regretful man in Trespasser who is clearly wracked to hell and back with guilt over what he's done and is planning to do and who wants to be convinced otherwise and swayed from his course by highapproval Quiz.' and by points I made here

 

Doesn't make the idea any more palatable though, particularly with Felassan being such a fav. I understand why he did it, but the idea of someone killing a friend is naturally abhorrent and also Felassan was a cool lil dude hahahah

[Cee]

Ha. My Lavellan is a mage that has a twin that is a rogue. She also has two older sisters, also twins (each others twins, not her twins), also rogues/hunters. Actually I kinda went off onto the crazy planning stage and came up with/plotted out my Lavellan's entire clan.

 

I did this for the people who are important to her. As well as some others. I've said how I wanted to give her family and to have her pre-DAI life be full, even though there was conflict because of her choices and who she is.

 

As much as I want to write post-Trespasser stories, I keep getting pulled back into writing about her first love and earlier life. Even as i have about three post-Trespasser ideas brewing.   The creative process is weird.

[Solas]

If the [incredibly contrived and completely hypothetical of course] choice Solas had to make was whether to kill his dear friend Wisdom in order to save the People and restore what was lost, he'd do it. Like that's just his character. What we hope for is continued development and the ability to continue helping him develop his views on modern peoples and in so doing sway him from his course.

[midnight tea]

If the [incredibly contrived and completely hypothetical of course] choice Solas had to make was whether to kill his dear friend Wisdom in order to save the People and restore what was lost, he'd do it. Like that's just his character. What we hope for is continued development and the ability to continue helping him develop his views on modern peoples and in so doing sway him from his course.

 

Well Cole does say it himself in the base game - "he carries necessary deaths".

[Solas]

nods

 

Echoed in 'his friend had to die'. He thought the killing of Felassan necessary.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It appears the great Llama has converted to Solavellan Abyss !

 

 

FluffyNinjaLlama's comment -

 

lets out a deep sigh I don’t know guys… Despite the fact that most scenes with Solas shatter my heart into a thousand tiny pieces, I can’t help but root for Solavellan so, so much, maybe more than for my Cullen/Trev. Don’t hit me!

 

The more I think about it (and I can't stop), the worst it becomes In my first comment I said that maybe I like Solavellan more than for my Cullen/Trev. Well... there's no "maybe" there anymore.

 

I was a Cullenmancer before, and Solas was my second favorite. In base game I could easily get my heart shattered into a million pieces by him and then reload to my Cullenmance Inquisitor, and feel happy again. And when I started this DLC, I had this fluffy, heartwarming romance going all perfect, with a wedding and a dog and settling down, and I loved it, it felt a little "too easy", but great nonetheless. And then I did a Solavellan run.. and this scene ruined everything for me. I can't go back to Cullen anymore, it feels like there's something missing.

 

Solas romance was always unique, every scene with him is so carefully constructed, you can see that he's fighting it, that he tries to stay in control, and then he just snaps and grabs your butt and eats your face (lol, sorry , but no other scene, not even the waterfall one, is as powerful as this one. It is CRUSHING, it hurts so, so bad, you can see that he loves you more than anything, but his guilt and desire to right his wrongs and to save his people pushes him away. It is pure, delicious suffering and I just can't go back anymore. I am doomed to be trapped in sadness.

 

It just goes to show you how talented Patrick Weekes really is. Its not everyday you find someone who can draw fangirls away from Cully Wully by the power of writing.

[MayriyaNoori]

Ha. My Lavellan is a mage that has a twin that is a rogue. She also has two older sisters, also twins (each others twins, not her twins), also rogues/hunters. Actually I kinda went off onto the crazy planning stage and came up with/plotted out my Lavellan's entire clan.

I sat around and thought up all kinds of cool stuff about my Lavellan's clan also. Family members......what vallaslin her siblings had and why....what her days were like when she would go scouting with the hunters......teaching the little ones....all kinds of good stuff that attached me to clan Lavellan.

 

Then I messed up and had Cullen send people to deal with potential red lyrium.

 

 

I kept it cause it was good drama.

[Catfishers]

 It is pure, delicious suffering and I just can't go back anymore. I am doomed to be trapped in sadness.

 

This person understands me.