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[S.W.]

So, finally back from the holiday from hell, having used up 200MB of data in a week, I log on to a real computer for the first time to find I have fifty unread notifications on BSN. Wow. Remain awesome, you guys

 

Yup. And all Solas himself says is that his agent failed. 

 

I think  Knight Enchanter / Solas is not seeing WHERE my disagreement is. I do believe Solas is capable of killing, that was not the issue.  But being a fan of Felassan, I found that the book described Felassan meeting someone he DID NOT LIKE, which to me was obviously not Fen'Harel to whom he was in awe. He went to the meeting with dread knowing his death would be inevitable, the "person" he was meeting would never rest until it killed him. That is definitely NOT SOLAS.

 

I think it's worth mentioning that most of Felassan's accounts of Fen'Harel are told as old dalish stories - partially so to appear authentically 'dalish' to Briala, I imagine, as well as to serve as topical fables. These old dalish tales could be complete fiction, semi-fictional tales which incorporate fanficial and fantasy elements alongside the turth, or just prettified accounts of real events and are mostly accurate - we have no way to gauge how much truth is in the events of the stories, as well as how much truth there is to Felassan's depction of Fen'Harel as a conniving trickster who outwitted his superiors. I would guess that Felassan's depiction is only one side of a very multi-faceted character - and I might even guess that Felassan is aware of much. Felassan wouldn't use stories of Fen'Harel as the ruthless tactician in order to spur on Briala, after all, the reality of plotting a revolution is much more mundane and much nastier than what makes for effective propaganda. Even if those stories are 100% true, they're limited by the fact that they only tell of Fen'Harel's deeds whilst the Evanuris reigned, presumably before the veil fell (an event which has definied Solas' ambitions and temperment since).

 

The confusion of fact and fiction - and the difficulty distinguishing between the two, especially after long periods of history have passed - is an important theme for not only any dalish character, but also for Lavellen and Solas in particular. In Trespasser, if you choose to tell Solas that the dalish were wrong about Fen'Harel based on what you saw in the murals at Fen'Harel's sanctury, Solas will note that it's just another story, just another spin on events, and doesn't represent the whole truth. What Solas is doing in that piece of dialogue is casting doubt onto all the stories that Felassan told - as they represented only a portion of his actions, prior to the veil's fall, and were constructed not as accounts but as fables and morality tales which serve as much better propaganda pieces. Much in the same way the devs say that DA's codex is a collection of different points of view and thus have some element of subjectivity to them, Solas is saying the same about stories of him. This isn't to deny that objective history or even objective reality exists (lol, let's not go there). But rather the way we approach reality retrospectively is coloured by different subjective accounts and muddled by things like faulty memory or a lack of a written word.

 

What I'm trying to say is that there is, thematically, and practically, a very good reason why what Felassan says about Solas does not match up with Felassan's fraught and distressed relationship with his master. Most of Felassan's dialogue is in earshot of Briala, for whom he he 1. upkeeping a facade, and 2. trying to nudge in a particular political direction. Most of Felassan's dialogue contributes to greater thematical discussions DA has about history, subjectivity, and memory when it comes to the relationships between modern and ancient elves. And most of Felassan's dialogue - if we are to assume he was killed by Solas here - also establish Solas as character who is complex, multi-faceted, and one who cannot be judged neither intentions nor actions alone (his intentions, as outlined in Felassan's stories, seem to contradict his only action - killing Felassan).

 

For those reasons, given what we've learnt about Solas in Trespasser, I believe he killed Felassan, or made him "disappear" somehow without killing him.

[Kadan]

I don't think it's a matter of if he can leave the Fade or not, but that in the Fade there is no where for him to hide. He can hide in the real world, looking over his shoulder for a time, but even he understands that it won't last forever. To be honest I found it hard to see Solas as such a person until I saw his 15 second break down for a low approval Quizzy. S*** the man is cold! Capable of killing a friend that betrayed him absolutely. After reading the book it just cemented more of just how ruthless the man was 'before' meeting a friend/lover in Inquisition.

[Mims]

Explain me that: Why did Felassan contemplate never sleeping to avoid "Solas" ? What makes you think that an intelligent elf would think this worked ?

 

Solas isn't actually a god. If he wants to go and kill someone, he'd have to track them down just like anyone else. In the fade, the process is a lot easier. You just find the dreamer, because dreamer mages are often described as being 'bright' and attracting spirits to them. 

 

Which is why Solas and Lavellan are still drawn to one another in the fade when they sleep. Its just easier to find people. 

 

Theoretically, if Felassan never slept and kept his head down, he might have been able to avoid Solas finding out where he was. 

[Solas]

But the thing meeting Felassan could not leave the Fade. Otherwise Felassan's idea of avoiding sleep would not work.

 

Solas not only CAN leave the fade but was probably already out of the fade by then. This happened less than a year before Inquisition.

I don't think he was awake yet. The timeline isn't specific enough to be sure but it's possible. If he wasn't awake he couldn't leave.

[NeverlandHunter]

Catching up!

It was a bit disappointing that this was the only available heart option, tbh. Can't Lavellan be in love with him and not be an idiot?

I picked that option because I thought I had to... I would of much rather threatened his life.

 

my lavallan picked the U NO HE DED option hahaha but she doesnt have an offswitch

Does anyone have a video of this XD? My last save before it has waaay too many Qunari in between or I'd just reply to see her reaction.

Considering how ruthless Solas is to the point where he will kill even his own friends to achieve his goals and some Quizz's (such as mine) would kill Solas if there isn't any other option. One of the ending to DA4 could end up with Solas killing Lavellan. Or maybe that wouldn't even be the ending, but instead the intro to DA4. It gets rid of the Quizz so that the game can introduce a new hero to clean up Solas's mess. Or not the intro, but you later find the Quizz's dead body. Or maybe Dorain and new PC team up to find the Quizz and when they find Solas, Dorian is angry and scared that Solas had killed them. And Solas is like... I'm sorry. Then Dorian tries to kill him if the Quizz was friends/or lovers with him.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

WHERE'S TEAM OPTIMISM!!!!!????

*goes and cries in a corner*

 

I personally don't like the way she says the line when picking "You're the Dread Wolf". It comes across as overly accusatory and combative. I prefer the concerned line...especially since the affection came out again after all this time. Cementing the choice of the heart option. She cares...a lot.

I actually liked her tone (even though I didn't have the option I just looked it up) my Lavellan was pissed. The Dread Wolf!? Like seriously, she didn't have enough on her plate already, what the heck is Aunt Keeper Deshana going to think? I prefer the "I came for you" line only because I like to imagine that my Lavellan was a bit in denial about who Solas was and only confirmed what she knew when he looked at her rather expectantly.  

Solas is terribly patronizing. I never noticed it much with people he respects, like Lavellan or Cassandra, but you just have to listen to his banters with Sera or Vivienne to know it's true.

Everyone seems to patronize poor Sera. I was reading her banters again and some of the things that Solas and some other companions say to her really get on my nerves. On my first playthrough I couldn't stand Sera, but as I played through a second time and made my Lavellan take the time to know her I began to like her more.I can imagine what Solas would of  thought of their strange friendship.

Lavellan: Solas, you know... your arguments with Sera aren't going anywhere?

Solas: *sighs* She refuses to listen to reason, blinded by her own ignorance, even a Dalish upbringing would of been better than what she is now.

Lavellan ignoring the remark on the Dalish: You can't force people to change Solas, they have to want it. And anyway, Sera is content with who she is, maybe that should be enough?

Solas looking at Lavellan sadly: Perhaps

 

Why he asks has some unfortunate implications, but I don't think it has anything to do with the anchor actually being a spirit. He asks the Inquisitor if the mark has changed them, because he's hoping for a way out. At this point he knows that the Inquisitor is a 'person'. They are real. If the mark had changed them, then he could have rationalized his feelings towards them as- 'Oh, well, they are only this way because the mark is old magic.' The mark is why they are unique.

 

So, he is still trying to justify seeing them as a non-person. He's just failing at it. He killed Felassan for seeing someone as a person, I don't think its unreasonable that Solas is attempting to grasp at straws to find a reason that would justify his attachment to the Inquisitor. 

Oh my goodness, that's sad to think about!

[Hedinve]

I don't find it hard to believe he killed him at all, it's not contrary to his personality. But as long as PW posts pics of River Song when asked about it, I'm not sure. It's almost certain, but leave it to Weekes to have some strange, convoluted story behind it. If not, it's a great story as it is.

[Jayla]

When does TME take place? Is it before or after Solas wakes up?

Also I don't think that the person who killed Felassan is incapable of leaving the Fade. Felassan is clever, he could hide himself very well, and Thedas is a big place. But there is one place where he absolutely can't hide, and that's the Fade. And both Felassan and his killer knew that.

[Renmiri1]

I don't think he was awake yet. The timeline isn't specific enough to be sure but it's possible. If he wasn't awake he couldn't leave.

But Felassan said "the rest of his life" so this thing had to be unable to leave the fade for years.

 

TME takes place a year before Inquisition. Solas woke up a year before Inquisition. If Solas was still asleep at  the end of TME then he woke up less than a year, mere months before Inquisition. Doesn't make sense.

[Solas]

My contention is not so much about if Solas could kill or not. My beef is that the thing in those pages does not discuss, does not take pleas, has no use for passionate disagreements. And CAN NOT LEAVE THE FADE as if it could Felassan's plan to escape by avoiding sleep would be useless. Solas can leave the fade.

 

Explain me that: Why did Felassan contemplate never sleeping to avoid "Solas" ? What makes you think that an intelligent elf would think this worked ?

 

He's constantly questioning and looking for a way to be shown that he's wrong and that is ISN'T necessary

Yet the text above makes it clear the thing meeting Felassan did not accept discussion, pleas, passionate disaggreemets. Yet you are telling me the 2 sentences describe Solas. Don't you see how it is near impossible to be "constantly questioning" and to not accept questioning ?

 

Even with the mages he kills, he hears their side of the story first. Yet less than year before he refused to hear one of his trusted agents ? No way.

Those are Felassan's thoughts on the entity in that one specific moment when Felassan knew he had gone too far. He would not speak so familiarly ("I suspect you'll hate this lol") with an entity that he has never engaged in discussion or disagreement with. 

 

The timeline isn't specific enough to know one way or the other whether or not Solas was awake. Seriously. And if he wasn't awake, he wouldn't have been able to leave the Fade.

[Jayla]

Solas isn't actually a god. If he wants to go and kill someone, he'd have to track them down just like anyone else. In the fade, the process is a lot easier. You just find the dreamer, because dreamer mages are often described as being 'bright' and attracting spirits to them. 

 

Which is why Solas and Lavellan are still drawn to one another in the fade when they sleep. Its just easier to find people. 

 

Theoretically, if Felassan never slept and kept his head down, he might have been able to avoid Solas finding out where he was. 

 

I like the emboldened part because it says that Lavellan is still bright even with the loss of the Anchor. *dreamy stare*

[NeverlandHunter]

Solas isn't actually a god. If he wants to go and kill someone, he'd have to track them down just like anyone else. In the fade, the process is a lot easier. You just find the dreamer, because dreamer mages are often described as being 'bright' and attracting spirits to them. 

 

Which is why Solas and Lavellan are still drawn to one another in the fade when they sleep. Its just easier to find people. 

 

Theoretically, if Felassan never slept and kept his head down, he might have been able to avoid Solas finding out where he was. 

I've never read the book, but I was thinking the same thing. Before he takes what ever he takes from Flemythal his powers aren't anything special. Now after he becomes all Medusa-y then he might have an easier time finding this guy.

...

Of course Solas always had agents, maybe Felassan knew he couldn't hide from all of them. 

 

A question too. this may have been answered before, but what exactly did Solas take from Flemythal? A lot of people have made comments about Morrigan getting her godhood, but then what did Solas take? I assumed the magic Flemeth was putting into the Eluvian was the Old God, but does it always show that even without an OGB?

[Solas]

I don't find it hard to believe he killed him at all, it's not contrary to his personality. But as long as PW posts pics of River Song when asked about it, I'm not sure. It's almost certain, but leave it to Weekes to have some strange, convoluted story behind it. If not, it's a great story as it is.

I guess I just can't accept "PW made a mysterious whooshing noise when questioned on the matter" as an argument in support of the fact that he didn't kill him.

 

He's a dev. They like to keep us guessing.

[Solas]

But Felassan said "the rest of his life" so this thing had to be unable to leave the fade for years.

 

TME takes place a year before Inquisition. Solas woke up a year before Inquisition. If Solas was still asleep at  the end of TME then he woke up less than a year, mere months before Inquisition. Doesn't make sense.

Felassan may not have known when Solas would wake.

 

And when Solas woke, as Mims said he may have also hunted him in the physical world and in the Fade when he did sleep.

 

Timeline seriously not specific enough. We need names of months specified of when things happened to prove your point or mine, sorry.

[dawnstone]

I like the emboldened part because it says that Lavellan is still bright even with the loss of the Anchor. *dreamy stare*

Or, it could just be that Solas is really very good at finding people in the Fade whose spirits he is familiar with (which would be why it would be easier for him to find Felassan in the Fade than in the Unchanging World, aka reality, whether he was in uthenera or not). There's a lot we don't know about how magic and the Fade work, but it seems like distance and time are not really issues in the Fade.

[Solas]

Like even the DA wiki says "Solas killed Felassan". It's fan-edited but it's clearly consensus enough based on Trespasser that it's deemed acceptable to be there.

[Nhadalie]

 

As I said before, it would only cheapen the character and accomplishments (for me) if it was due to some divine compulsion by a spirit of hope (or something like that) caused by the anchor, which I personally don't believe. 

 

 

I agree with that 100%

As long as it is natural by birth which I never said anything against. 

 

 

Solas said, if I remember correctly, that he created the veil and sealed the gods away because they killed Mythal. At least that was the straw that broke the camels back. 

Isn't part of why he wants to tear the veil down now also so Mythal can have her revenge, next to all the guilt and bringing back the world of his people. 

If they had a romantic relationship in the past, I just think he still loves her with all he does for her and Lavellan was just an unwelcome distraction.

The things he does always involve Mythal one way or the other.

 

What did the little mortal get? 

She had to pay with her heart, Vallaslin and now a limb.

 

If he goes that far for possible romanced Mythal but not romanced Lavellan then it really diminishes the Solasmance. At least for me.

That is the reason why a former romance between those two would bother me, because it implies a present romantic attachment as well

 

Excuse my insufficient english

 

As far as the spirit thing.. One of Cole's lines was "Faith finds a friend in Compassion.". I was never quite sure if he was referring to the Inquistor, or Cassandra. But I always leaned towards the former. The Inquisitor forms a much closer bond with Cole than Cassandra does. I always thought the idea of the Inquisitor having a special spirit was canon. Because he/she "burns brightly, like the sun" when Cole describes them, and the obvious Solas romance dialogue about Lavellan having a remarkable spirit. And Faith makes an easier direct connection to the Quizzy, because he/she inspires faith in other people, which is what a spirit of Faith would do.

 

If some of the races originated from spirits, I think it would make a lot of sense that all of them did. And I don't think the Quizzy being one and the same as a Faith Spirit would cheapen their character in the slightest. If anything, it's just an interesting bit of information. I don't think it's an effect of the anchor, I think the Quizzy just is special to begin with.

 

 

About Mythal/Solas, I don't see a romantic connection between them. Maybe a familial one, or a very close friendship. He admired her greatly for caring about her people. He believed that she didn't take advantage, or misuse her people. She treated them with compassion, and gave them justice when it was needed. The fact that the rest of the Evanuris killed the one he considered the best of them was Solas's breaking point.

 

As far as the scene with them at the end of the game, I think it was something they had planned long ago. I suspect Solas needed her help to deal with the Evanuris when he removed the veil. Because when you talk to him about it, he says he has a plan. Flemeth/Mythal never did anything before without a purpose, and that scene feels like it was planned between them. She didn't seem surprised, or betrayed, or anything about it. And if Mythal is truly all about justice/vengeance, she would have reacted in a way that showed it if he had betrayed her.

 

I think a previous romance between the two would be inappropriate, because Solas is still stuck in the past. He has never moved on. The devs wouldn't have made him a romance option if that was the case, because it does cheapen his relationship with Lavellan. And we know for a fact that he loves Lavellan with all that he is, and it's killing him to stay away from her.

[Jayla]

A question too. this may have been answered before, but what exactly did Solas take from Flemythal? A lot of people have made comments about Morrigan getting her godhood, but then what did Solas take? I assumed the magic Flemeth was putting into the Eluvian was the Old God, but does it always show that even without an OGB?

 

I've probably been 'd, but I'll post anyway:

 

Designer's Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

Source: https://www.reddit.c...ne_explained/#s

 

The above is what everyone refers to in regards to the epilogue scene. Now we know Solas isn't an elven God with Trespasser, so just take care that these notes are for the developers guidance only, and things change as development continues, so these aren't a definitive "this is what happened", but more of a "this is what the developers had in mind at the time".

 

Edit: some grammar changes because I post before I think.

[k_drake]

I like the emboldened part because it says that Lavellan is still bright even with the loss of the Anchor. *dreamy stare*

I was thinking about this t'other day (b/c who cares about work or school, *thbbbt* as Sera would say).  IS there something about the Quizzy that makes him/her special. as Cole implies?  If so, what is it?  Is there any kind of consolation for Lavellan?  B/c right now she's just giving up pieces of herself--literally and figuratively--as if fate had decreed it was time for a goddamn Quizzy yard sale.  I guess what I'm saying is, PLEASE BIOWARE, DON'T JUST KILL QUIZZY OFF TO MAKE ROOM FOR A NEW PROTAGONIST/US SADDER ABOUT SOLAS IN DA4 (if there is a DA4, yada yada).

[Renmiri1]

Felassan may not have known when Solas would wake.

 

And when Solas woke, as Mims said he may have also hunted him in the physical world.

 

Timeline seriously not specific enough. We need names of months specified of when things happened to prove your point or mine, sorry.

 

aha but now you are admitting there's a chance

 

I posted the 2 last pages of TME precisely because of that. The thing that met with Felassan and killed him doesn't sound at all like the Solas we met. The details on the book show us a lot of things hard to explain and justify. 

 

I'm not going to be convinced Solas was that thing on the book untill I see proof. I guess you are the opposite: you are convinced that thing is Solas unless you see proof.

 

Since we both don't really have it, how about we agree to disagree and move on ?

[Solas]

It also wouldn't be the first time devs fudged timelines. The crafter in Mahariel's clan says he fought the CLAYNE, LOL.

[Hedinve]

You don't have to accept it as yours, Solas? I'm not here to convince you or anybody else,  I'm stating one of my reasons for doubt and saying that I get what Renmiri is saying. Besides, PW is a troll, a lovable troll, but why wouldn't he confirm it if it was so clear cut? 

[Renmiri1]

Like even the DA wiki says "Solas killed Felassan". It's fan-edited but it's clearly consensus enough based on Trespasser that it's deemed acceptable to be there.

That is as shaky as PW's tweets, actually more shaky because fans don't write canon and PW does so he can always come with a new twist for us.

 

Why don't I get the impression P'Tricky is laughing his head off at us fans discussing things ?

[Solas]

aha but now you are admitting there's a chance

 

I posted the 2 last pages of TME precisely because of that. The thing that met with Felassan and killed him doesn't sound at all like the Solas we met. The details on the book show us a lot of things hard to explain and justify. 

 

I'm not going to be convinced Solas was that thing on the book untill I see proof. I guess you are the opposite: you are convinced that thing is Solas unless you see proof.

 

Since we both don't really have it, how about we agree to disagree and move on ?

I've always said it's all-but-clear.

 

The Solas you met was a man who was lying at first, and then a man who was changing after that.

 

I was convinced it wasn't Solas until we were given proof: Cole's line in Trespasser.   Where we differ is you don't see it as proof.

[k_drake]

Felassan may not have known when Solas would wake.

 

And when Solas woke, as Mims said he may have also hunted him in the physical world and in the Fade when he did sleep.

 

Timeline seriously not specific enough. We need names of months specified of when things happened to prove your point or mine, sorry.

Yah, like how long has Solas been out and about, exactly?  He's had time to develop a healthy loathing for the Dalish by the time he joins the Inquisition, but if it's only been a year, he sure gave up on them pretty fast.  I mean, it seems his turnaround time from waking up to plotting the downfall of the world must have been basically instantaneous, since he had to set a lot of wheels in motion, e.g., Felassan, baiting the Venatori, &c., all of which would take some time.