153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Eivuwan]

I wholeheartedly agree. Bioware wouldn't provide a choice to try and redeem him unless they plan for that to actually be (at least partially) possible to be accomplished in a later game, if not the next (though i'm pretty sure the next). 

 

I see Solas as a character of ironic tragedy. He's wise, yet proud. He's kind, yet cruel. There is no simple definition to his character, since parts of him are so contradictory and different. 

 

For pride, he wants to bring back what was. For wisdom, he wants to redeem the world of its sadness and ignorance (through force by collapsing the veil). For kindness, he wants to save the people he wronged. For cruelty, he wants to avenge his friend (Mythal) and his people, and whatever gets in his way must burn.

 

He's extremely complicated, and you can easily hate his character if you don't look at all sides. 

 

He's very complicated, but no matter what it's hard to like a character who is planning on murdering millions of people. I really liked his character last year and was hoping that his plan wasn't going to actually be about tearing down the veil and destroying the world. But now that I found how that that's indeed the plan, I don't think I like his character anymore.

[TheEggCrusher]

He's very complicated, but no matter what it's hard to like a character who is planning on murdering millions of people. I really liked his character last year and was hoping that his plan wasn't going to actually be about tearing down the veil and destroying the world. But now that I found how that that's indeed the plan, I don't think I like his character anymore.

You would probably hate me then, because I would do the exact same thing in his position. I guess I'm biased in that regard. 

 

Anyways, I seriously have to go. Stop responding to me and stuff, I'm really tired  

 

(I mean please respond, that's nice, but I also need to go to bed lol) 

[Blue Gloves]

Exactly. People are saying that it would be selfish to give up on your plans for the sake of Lavellan, but I think it's pretty selfish to take unilateral actions that will result in the deaths of millions of people. Honestly, I think his feelings for Mythal are stronger than his feelings for Lavellan. The death of Mythal was the catalyst for him to put up the veil, seal away the Evanuris, and take away the elves' magic and immortality. But Lavellan's life and her love is not enough to sway him from his current plans.

 

I think the two "loves" are not comparable, to be honest.  His love for Mythal is akin to that which people feel for individuals like beloved monarchs, or benevolent religious leaders (like the pope or the dalai lama), or maybe even the love that some people feel for their deity.  The love he feels for Lavellan is on a more personal level.  I mean, if a bunch of people kill your spouse, you plot mad revenge, grieve, maybe blast a few asses; but if someone kills your king and threatens to enslave you and everyone you know, you initiate a scorched earth response.  I can see your point of view, of course, and of course I plan on stopping the cray-cray; hopefully by convincing him that he'd much rather be dancing with poor Lavellan than blowing up the world...again; but ultimately I'd stop him at any cost.  Because just like Solas, my Lavellan couldn't let her personal feelings, no matter how real and strong they are, interfere with saving her people. 

 

This is part of why I love the set up for the next game so much with a romanced Solas- the duality is lovely an poignant.  Lavellan will "save the world" (or o she thinks), even if it costs her the man she loves; and Solas will "save the world" (or so he thinks)  even if it costs him the woman he loves.  Ahh- the tears and drama!  They nourish my bitter-loving soul!

[Sifr]

I remember reading that and becoming extremely p*ssed off. I get he's matured but ... seriously Solas? 

 

Anways, I always knew he thinks he's a pretty smart guy. Hard evidence about that fact is a bit annoying, however. 

 

What annoyed me more was the hypocrisy in one of our earliest conversations with him in Haven;

 

Spoiler

How can he seriously stand there and present an argument that Spirits are "real" people (not that I disagree with him), when he attempts to divorce that notion entirely as applying to anyone living in modern Thedas. Perhaps it's easier for him to believe they're not real so he can carry on his plans with a cleaner conscience, but it's still extremely jarring.

 

I feel like we should have been able to lampshade it, plus it'd have made for a great bookend thematically.

[TheEggCrusher]

What annoyed me more was the hypocrisy in one of our earliest conversations with him in Haven;

 

Spoiler

How can he seriously stand there and present an argument that Spirits are "real" people (not that I disagree with him), when he attempts to divorce that notion entirely as applying to anyone living in modern Thedas. Perhaps easier for him to believe they're not real so he can carry on his plans with a cleaner conscience, but it's still extremely jarring.

 

I still love Solas' character, but we should have been able to lampshade it. Plus it'd have made for a great bookend thematically.

Yup, he's a huge hypocrite. I can't think of one aspect of him that another aspect doesn't contradict. 

 

I also think it's bad to ignore his dark sides. Better to acknowledge them and think about where his character might go later in the franchise rather than just say "sshh he's complicated, but he's actually a great guy. you insult him, I punch you" (not that anyone does that on this thread but with Anders, that is basically how it went down) 

 

Also, I would've loved to yell at him a bit more about how everybody is a person. All we got was a slightly p*ssed off sounding "We weren't/aren't (can't remember) people to you?!" Not nearly enough to satisfy my b*tchy, screamy needs. 

 

Annyyways last comment I reply to. Good night  

[CapricornSun]

Wow! I've got about 20+ pages to catch up to.   (And I seriously hate that I'm still out of likes since there's sooo many posts that I want to give likes to.)

 

Anyway here's an art post. And like before, not sure if these have been shared already. 

 

Lavellan likes to be in charge.

Spoiler

Source: http://metalghoulsol...olavellan-b-the

 

 

Their first kiss.

Spoiler

Source: http://destinyaposta...theshade-of-her

 

 

Modern AU Solavellan in sweaters.

Spoiler

Source: http://sihaofskyhold...ght-new-clothes

 

 

"In another world..."

"Why not this one?"

Spoiler

Source: http://kumobrush.tum...t-over-anything

 

 

Sketch of Solas and a really petite Lavellan, 

Spoiler

Source: http://inquisiliciou...be-digital-once

 

 

Solas portrait.

Spoiler

Source: http://wardenblues.t...8642453/sad-sap

 

 

Dread Wolf sketch.

Spoiler

Source: http://drfm.tumblr.c...-past-few-weeks

 

 

 

 

Trespasser Art (There be spoilers!)

 

Lavellan asks Solas about the armor she crafted for him.

Spoiler

Source: http://thecopperkidd...st/129455635039

 

 

Gorgeous artwork of Solas and m!Lavellan.

Spoiler

Source: http://ba-sha.tumblr...irst-inquisitor

 

 

 

Painting of m!Lavellan and Solas.

Spoiler

Source: http://kurocyou.tumb...up-featuring-my

 

 

[Eivuwan]

I think the two "loves" are not comparable, to be honest.  His love for Mythal is akin to that which people feel for individuals like beloved monarchs, or benevolent religious leaders (like the pope or the dalai lama), or maybe even the love that some people feel for their deity.  The love he feels for Lavellan is on a more personal level.  I mean, if a bunch of people kill your spouse, you plot mad revenge, grieve, maybe blast a few asses; but if someone kills your king and threatens to enslave you and everyone you know, you initiate a scorched earth response.  I can see your point of view, of course, and of course I plan on stopping the cray-cray; hopefully by convincing him that he'd much rather be dancing with poor Lavellan than blowing up the world...again; but ultimately I'd stop him at any cost.  Because just like Solas, my Lavellan couldn't let her personal feelings, no matter how real and strong they are, interfere with saving her people. 

 

This is part of why I love the set up for the next game so much with a romanced Solas- the duality is lovely an poignant.  Lavellan will "save the world" (or o she thinks), even if it costs her the man she loves; and Solas will "save the world" (or so he thinks)  even if it costs him the woman he loves.  Ahh- the tears and drama!  They nourish my bitter-loving soul!

 

Haha, I guess I must be biased because I'm pretty sure Lavellan is the one saving the world and Solas is the one destroying it. At least that's how it seems so far unless new information comes out. With the information we have so far, I just don't find Solas' actions very defensible or even relatable.

[Janic99]

Solas Trespasser ending reaction

 

Spoiler

Hi, guys. I haven't been here for a longg time. I just finished playing Trespasser today and it was awesome until the part when Lavellan actually starts talking to Solas. He was so cold. It made me so angry. He sounded like he was talking to a stranger. The whole scene just makes me feel like Solas doesn't love Lavellan nearly as much as she loves him (unless you pick all the break up, I'm going to kill you options). I seriously wanted to pick the break up option because he is just a terrible lover, but I didn't because I am still hoping for a happy ending. Grr, I just feel like the meeting with Solas wasn't as romantic or touching compared to all the scenes in the main game. The kiss was awkwardly animated too. Can anyone relate? =/

Spoiler

Idk what options you took but for my Lavellan I could see his hurting sad puppy face. There are few choices I said to him on my flycam experimenting. It was a little hard to move the camera because they were jumping into different places like 24/7 lol but his face: 2:02 always makes me just want to hug him. I also cut some parts because I felt like there were parts I did not need to record too much. I will do more flycam later on ^^ 

But just the way he spoke to me was very sweet and he said ''vhenan '' like all the time and was very protective. I even cried. I did not cry the first time he dumped me. I was emotional but I did not cry.. this one did make me cry. 

 

[Blue Gloves]

What annoyed me more was the hypocrisy in one of our earliest conversations with him in Haven;

 

Spoiler

How can he seriously stand there and present an argument that Spirits are "real" people (not that I disagree with him), when he attempts to divorce that notion entirely as applying to anyone living in modern Thedas. Perhaps easier for him to believe they're not real so he can carry on his plans with a cleaner conscience, but it's still extremely jarring.

 

I feel like we should have been able to lampshade it, plus it'd have made for a great bookend thematically.

 

 

Oh agreed; well, not that it annoyed me exactly, but I did think to myself- "Yes, we're not even people, because we're only half of what we're intended to be; but spirits, who are similarly denied a connection to a part of themselves (as proved by Cole's comments as well as the Librarian's in the Crossroads) are somehow more people-y than us?  Oooooooookay.  Yeah, no; that totally makes sense Solas, sure ."  I also thought "You know, I've often pitied the Tranquil, but I've never considered them sub-people; and I certainly don't imagine that their lack of emotion and connection to the fade makes it okay to slaughter them en masse in order to make way for the more people-y people.  That fact that you, Solas, do consider this to be an acceptable proposition is worrying, to say the least."  I think its part of his arrogance.  He thinks that the people of modern Thedas are beneath him- he doesn't want to hurt them, but he clearly cannot imagine them as equals.  I don't think he even truly imagines Lavellan to be capable of becoming his equal- I think he just loves her anyway. 

 

I love his character and writing for these flaws and nuances- but I understand why others wouldn't and don't.

[Hedinve]

We do a similar thing in Redcliff? By resetting time we might have cancelled a few lives? Babies that was concieved and born during that future that won't be in ours. Solas does it on a much bigger scale, but if we do the Doctor Dorian quest in Redcliff one could accuse Inky of doing the same thing. 

 

Edit: I still think he is an idiot for wanting to do so

[Catfishers]

We do a similar thing in Redcliff? By resetting time we might have cancelled a few lives? Babies that was concieved and born during that future that won't be in ours. Solas does it on a much bigger scale, but if we do the Doctor Dorian quest in Redcliff one could accuse Inky of doing the same thing. 

 

I keep coming back to this line of thinking. Not so much because I feel like there really would have been any merit in that timeline, like, it's obviously terrible (and the situation is not the same at all, as has been pointed out). But the point is that, as a player (and character), you only see it as a mistake; something that happened because you failed. At no point does the character ever think 'maybe we should see if this can be salvaged'. You think nothing of killing the people there, and ultimately even let your friends die for you, because they're not real to you; they're a product of this failed future and the real versions of them are waiting for you safe and correct back where you left off.

 

I really like the parallels that can be drawn there. Obviously there are differences, but there's enough similarities to help make Solas' situation a bit more sympathetic. His idea is a bad one, but given the scale of his failure, you can totally see why he'd think as he does.

[Hedinve]

Poor Leliana in that future, who also points out to Dorian - her torture was real to her

[Janic99]

 

Wow! I've got about 20+ pages to catch up to.   (And I seriously hate that I'm still out of likes since there's sooo many posts that I want to give likes to.)

 

Anyway here's an art post. And like before, not sure if these have been shared already. 

 

Lavellan likes to be in charge.

Spoiler

Source: http://metalghoulsol...olavellan-b-the

 

 

Their first kiss.

Spoiler

Source: http://destinyaposta...theshade-of-her

 

 

Modern AU Solavellan in sweaters.

Spoiler

Source: http://sihaofskyhold...ght-new-clothes

 

 

"In another world..."

"Why not this one?"

Spoiler

Source: http://kumobrush.tum...t-over-anything

 

 

Sketch of Solas and a really petite Lavellan, 

Spoiler

Source: http://inquisiliciou...be-digital-once

 

 

Solas portrait.

Spoiler

Source: http://wardenblues.t...8642453/sad-sap

 

 

Dread Wolf sketch.

Spoiler

Source: http://drfm.tumblr.c...-past-few-weeks

 

 

 

 

Trespasser Art (There be spoilers!)

 

Lavellan asks Solas about the armor she crafted for him.

Spoiler

Source: http://thecopperkidd...st/129455635039

 

 

Gorgeous artwork of Solas and m!Lavellan.

Spoiler

Source: http://ba-sha.tumblr...irst-inquisitor

 

 

 

Painting of m!Lavellan and Solas.

Spoiler

Source: http://kurocyou.tumb...up-featuring-my

 

 

The armor thing was my fav XD Though my Lavellan was too busy checking his thighs out that she ignored it. 

[Blue Gloves]

Haha, I guess I must be biased because I'm pretty sure Lavellan is the one saving the world and Solas is the one destroying it. At least that's how it seems so far unless new information comes out. With the information we have so far, I just don't find Solas' actions very defensible or even relatable.

 

Well Lavellan, and by extension us (since we're playing from her point of view) certainly thinks she's in the right, and she's going to do everything she can to save her world; but what if we were playing as Solas instead?  Is it really so hard to imagine that you'd sacrifice anything  and everything to save your people form the terrible fate that you,yourself inadvertently doomed them to?  We may not think Solas is trying to save the world, and maybe even, in that great, nebulous, meta-game of the universe he is ultimately not trying to save the world, but Solas clearly thinks that's exactly what he's trying to do.  I think that intentions matter, when we're debating the philosophical matter of whether a character is "good" or "evil".  Some people don't- and that's valid too, but I think that it makes for a much more interesting and (heh) human character to portray the good intentions and ardent belief in the righteousness of his chosen cause.  I think it's valid to classify Solas as an antagonist, since no matter how fervently a zealot of any kind believes he's right- he's still a zealot who ends up killing a bunch of innocent people; but is he really a bad guy?  Is he really unlikable?  Not for me, personally; but I ALWAYS fall for the sympathetic villains, antiheroes, and rebels-with-a-cause of the fictional world(s), so I'm a bit biased in that regard.

 

Also, I couldn't help but think of this as I was writing the bolded words bad guy:

Spoiler

[Sifr]

 

I also think it's bad to ignore his dark sides. Better to acknowledge them and think about where his character might go later in the franchise rather than just say "sshh he's complicated, but he's actually a great guy. you insult him, I punch you" (not that anyone does that on this thread but with Anders, that is basically how it went down)

 

In many ways, Solas is Anders... only done right.

 

Seriously, look at the similiarties. Both are sarcastic and bookish mages who are friendly with spirits, have a romance arc where they are conflicted between their mission and their own desires, before ultimately revealing themselves as a heroic antagonist in the endgame where they "betray" the protagonist, because they feel their own cause is more important.

 

Where they went wrong with Anders is that they made him a lot more heavy handed when it came to his goals and so it all became black and white, leading to him become a base-breaker when it came to the fandom. With Solas however, they managed to make him a lot more morally grey, in part because Weekes fleshed him out from his initial first draft of him, where he would only ever talk about mages elves... (sound familiar?)

 

Not to say that Anders was badly written, just that if DA2 had been given more time in development instead of being rushed out by EA, he probably would have gotten a few more rewrites to make him a far more nuanced and complex character, rather than coming across as a guy on a soapbox.

 

If you look at Anders as an early prototype for Solas, he actually becomes a better character in a way, because you can appreciate more what they were probably trying to do with him. It's just that they never really got to flesh him or his motivations out because of the rushed development cycle.

[Abelis]

I don't see how it's diminishing either.  However if Solas is attracted to Lavellan simply because she reminds him of Mythal, that would be.

 Well, i meant it like this as you just said, sorry if i wasnt clear about the diminishing part in my post.

[Vorathrad]

I mean, Abelas is sort of a poor-Lavellan's Solas...not as funny, warm, powerful, or wise...but at least he's available.  #callmeabelas

 

It's so heartwarming to see how one can be in both Solas and Abelas fandoms and feel one's tastes respected. 

 

*goes back to catching up with the thread*

[LilithMB]

About solas choosing ancient ones/mythal over Lavellan. Hate to sound creepy but a little reason might be that to solas Lavellan will be dead soon anyway and we all know his fear is to die alone. Shes just mortal and he must be terribly lonely being one of the last of his kind. Selfish but...also imagine waking up in a world with no internet or netflix but 100000000 × worse, with wars and humans being crushed and enslaved by alien overlords. Ye GODS. I would sort of want to burn that world to. Hes still an idiot and I really hope there is a way that he wont have to sacrifice his people to be with lavellan that also doesnt involve pulling the reaper switch

[Hattress]

 

What annoyed me more was the hypocrisy in one of our earliest conversations with him in Haven;

 

Spoiler

How can he seriously stand there and present an argument that Spirits are "real" people (not that I disagree with him), when he attempts to divorce that notion entirely as applying to anyone living in modern Thedas. Perhaps it's easier for him to believe they're not real so he can carry on his plans with a cleaner conscience, but it's still extremely jarring.

 

I feel like we should have been able to lampshade it, plus it'd have made for a great bookend thematically.

 

I guess the reason is simply because ... at his time spirits lived and worked with ancient elves, like the spirit of study in the library. That also explains why he enjoys staying with spirit ... they kind of reminds him of the past .. the 'right world'. Still, 

 

And.. what do you guys think of sandal's prophecy?

One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see.

 

Spoiler

It seems that "torn down the veil" plan will succeed or partly succeed....Another thing just come up to me is ... if in following DA games we completely stop Solas and keep the world as it is... Then the aftermath would be  horrible -- elves are most likely doomed.  I doubt people would remember they are victims as well, not to mention that in the end of Trepasser a lot of elves are leaving and joining Solas's force; Also, people will have every reasons to fear mages and jail every one of them in a tower and watch closely. After they learn that veil is created by a mage, and it is possible to be torn down and thus destroy Thedas ... So ... something has to be changed

[Illyria]

My first playthrough was my romance Lavellan. After finishing the game (twice) with her I created a Trevelyan.

...

...

What the fluff!?? Was I just completely miss reading him??

Is nothing we did special??

 

I was half waiting for all my flirt options with him.

 

That's the problem with having a romance that was added at the very last moment!

 

And why I get really annoyed when I hear people say that non-romanced/m!Lavellan should get the vallaslin scene, or even (and this one is REALLY petty of me, I'm aware) that the friendship meant just as much to him as the romance because no.  We get so little in this romance.  Let us have our tiny things, please.

 

(and I'm using the tarot cards as evidence that the friendship - while important - was not as important as the romance.  Only Solavellans get the fluffy wolf card).

[Illyria]

Also, to clarify my own position on Solas/Mythal (since I spoke in opposition to it):

I'm not against the idea of characters having emotionally significant others - not at all. However, I'd be upset with Solas/Mythal specifically because it would likely imply much of his good work freeing slaves and fighting the corrupt Evanuris was driven by vengence and passion for his dead lover, rather than being primarily about justice for the elven people. It makes political principle about one dead lover.

This isn't to say vengence isn't a worthy subject to red or write about, but I think in this case, I think that cheapens his motivations in Trespasser. I could almost see how someone could justify to themselves ending the world knowing that it'd make life better for people in the long run, but if it's instead about avenging a lover... eh, that's just wrong, I don't know how you could do that.

I think what makes it worse is that it is Solas' personal relationship with the Inquisitor which changes his opinion on whether modern elves = people. In the case of Solavellen, that would be TWICE where Solas' political opinions are formed on the backs of failed relationships.

Whilst personal experience inevitably colours opinions on politics, I think most people are able to decide what principles are important and hold themselves to good ethical practice without a girlfriend. I mean, it'd reduce discussions about the how the whole of society should be structured and how power should be divided and treated to a soap opera.

That's why I feel Solas/Mythal cheapens his character. I'm actually pretty fond of when NPCs have lives and loves outside of the duration of the game, but I think that specific pairing places limits on his character motivations and makes him potentially less nuanced and interesting. I'd like to believe that some part of Solas believes he's doing something right, that he's doing something justice, because being completely motivated by guilt when the whole world is at stake is more than a bit self-absorbed.

 

I see Solas and Mythal as having a Leliana/Justina relationship.  What is it she says? 'I was devoted to her, so we must've been lovers?'

[Illyria]

Let me guess: things didn't work out very well for Mordin?

 

....

 

 

*breaks down sobbing*

[Illyria]

Cassandra is so awesome! *.*

...

But Varric better not try to write a book with our romance as "inspiration"

 

My Lavellan would murder him.

 

 

 

"As the night illuminated her soft pale skin he gently ran a finger down her cheek.

 

'The veil is thin here, can you feel it on your skin, tingly?'

 

'Yes,' Lavhena replied, breathless. She leaned closer to Sorel, her face a mask of desire. He--"

 

"What the hell are you reading to them Varric???"

 

"Inquisitor! I was just indulging The Seeker with a sneak peak of my latest novel, Dread Wolf Take Me, although it's a working title! I didn't expect to draw such a crowd."

 

*Dorian, Iron Bull, and Sera slink away*

 

"I am going to kill you!"

 

"I am only a humble writer in the service of my fans... and one particular fan was very vocal about her desire for this novel."

 

"CASSANDRA!"

 

Do you mind if I use that for the Dread Wolf Pirate Mage Bad Boy!Solas/Halla Princess!Lavellan friendfic I'm writing as Cassandra?