153429 réponses à ce sujet

[AllThatJazz]

Okay, so taking that scenario. The fact is that Solas's plan would likely destroy 90% of those people. The poorly treated Elves would die right alongside the detached Dwarves and persecuted Mages and up themselves Humans and I bet if you asked each one they'd rather live their crummy lives than have one guy decide that they aren't real and should be killed to make way for the "better" Ancient Elves and the new world. Even the ending with the darkspawn, we have no idea how the tear in the Veil will effect the Blight or darkspawn.

 

It's actually a very interesting thing. With the magic and spirits/demons unleashed by a completely collapsed Veil, how would the darkspawn and archdemons react. Would they suddenly come into their own kind of magic, blight magic. Would the Darkspawn become more sentient  with the veil pulled down? We have no idea at the moment what, if any, link there is between darkspawn, archdemons and the Fade.

But I bet if the Inquisitor had ventured out of Redcliffe Castle during 'In Hushed Whispers' and found people living there, carving out a harsh life, falling in love, having babies (because life goes on, even in the crappiest of circumstances), some would have said the same thing. 'Help us save this world, there's good in it too'. And in the current world, there will be those Elves willing to sacrifice themselves for a better future for Elvhen even if they themselves aren't part of it. To someone whose world is about to come to an end, 'you're going to die' and 'you're going to never have existed' are fairly meaningless distinctions.

 

I don't think at this point we can guess what the ultimate result of collapsing the veil will be, or the exact number of deaths - it might be horrific, it might be okay (especially if it's possible to find some way to mitigate the worst of the damage), it will likely be somewhere in between. But I do believe that something in the world of Thedas needs to change, soon and dramatically, and it's possible - just a possibility, mind you - that removing the veil is a better solution than doing nothing at all. I honestly think that there's more to find out yet, and that the stakes are bigger than we've realised so far.

 

Which as a player is incredibly exciting, but as a Lavellan is utterly terrifying and heartbreaking!  

 

Edit: Probably worth making it clear again that I'm not okay with Solas's plan. Just brainstorming, examining perspective a bit and enjoying a debate x 

[CapricornSun]

I have  a theory that even if we're able to convince Solas to change his plans, it will be too late. Some things will be put in motion and the final action will be required, Solas might stop at this... but he's not the only one who wants the Veil gone. Someone else will tear down the Veil. My bet is on whoever drank from the Well of Sorrows.

 

There were no consequences for it yet, and we know there will be. Flemeth says that she has no orders for you...yet. It will matter a great deal in the end.

 

So, it's either Inky or Morrigan then (assuming if what you said will happen of course). That would be very interesting. I'd love to see how this would all play out.

 

Damn, this makes me want to play DA4 even more. 

[Eivuwan]

Just a thought but wouldn't newer spirits also be traumatised by the Veil being abruptly torn down, or does Solas consider them an acceptable loss too?  

 

If modern elves can't survive the worlds being re-combined then aren't Fade creatures, who frankly seem mentally fragile, be more at risk because they came into being after the Veil was created.  

 

It sounds like he's planning to do it in a gentler way compared to Corypheus, but then why can't he bring down the veil without killing people?

[ZhengAn]

Well, for some of us, the Alistair romance had both drama and fluff and ended in a wedding. But it was playing a Cousland Warden, then Hawke, that made me decide to play Dalish in DAI. I was tired of 1)Humans 2) nobles.

 

And I am very glad I did.

 

I played elf mage so Alistair have to be warden with me. Though the DAI warden Alistair is sweet, I was a bit upset about mistress/king ending at most for my character back then. Since then I have been VERY careful when choosing romances in DA. My hawke romances fenris, so everything is good. But I guess I failed again in DAI, romance solas, sacrifice Hawke in fade, breaking the supposingly happy-forever-after-ending of fenris romance.

 

This left my warden to be the only character with happy romance in all three games, assuming they don't do anything with her in DA4.

 

My miserable romancing journey in DA.

[LilithMB]

Just a thought but wouldn't newer spirits also be traumatised by the Veil being abruptly torn down, or does Solas consider them an acceptable loss too?  

 

If modern elves can't survive the worlds being re-combined then aren't Fade creatures, who frankly seem more mentally fragile, more at risk because they came into being after the Veil was created.  

there will probably be fear/sorrow/all other bad named demons galore when the veil comes down. If weaker spirits reflect what they see and what people feel, then depending on what happens when the veil comes down so many corrupted spirits are bound to happen. Unless with the veil gone the spirits are independent and dont need to reflect on us because they arent "sundered from themselves"?

[kalasaurus]

I still have hope for Solas x Lavellan.  Even if their romance isn't conventional, I'm letting my headcanon go wild right now.

[Eivuwan]

Here's a random thought. What if by destroy, he means that everyone will lose their bodies, but their spirits will still be intact? Like maybe the souls will stay in the fade, but they may or may not have clear memories of their past and only the personality remains. And then perhaps over time through cultivation, the souls can be reborn/gain a physical body. This may be more acceptable to me than he's planning to just kill a great deal of people permanently.

[Illyria]

It is possible to empathise with and understand a characters plans from that characters perspective, without agreeing with them.

 

I completely understand why Solas feels he needs to carry out his plans, even though it hurts him to do so. I understand how utterly wrong modern Thedas must feel for him. It's a mistake he feels he must undo. To do nothing would be, from his perspective, a betrayal of the world as he feels it should be.

 

That does not mean I agree with his plan. But I understand it. And I also think there's more at stake here than we've been shown as yet.

 

Imagine if you would, that instead of the time magic during the 'In Hushed Whispers' quest casting your inquisitor forward one year, it cast her forward a decade. The world is broken, demons are everywhere, everything is all wrong. Now imagine that instead of being able to fix it instantly, your Inquisitor had to spend a year there, gathering the resources she needs to turn back time. During that time, she meets children born after the breach. She meets resistance fighters who, for all the hardship they've endured, have formed bonds of friendship and love that they never would have had if not for the chaos. None of these people would want those things erased. In the case of the children, none of them will even exist if your Inquisitor turns back time. She's erasing them. All because she sees the world they were born into as broken.

 

Is it broken? Well, yes. The Inquisitor knows that, because she lived in the world before it broke. But does that mean anything to the children she's going to remove from existence? Does this broken world not have the right to fight and mend itself on it's own terms? We've already made that choice for it once. We chose to erase it. Who knows what it could have become, had we chosen instead to stay and help fight.

 

Returning to Solas; is modern Thedas 'broken' in the same way that the breach future was? Solas certainly seems to think so. And how can we say otherwise? We have no point of reference, nothing to compare it to. We weren't there in Arlathan. We have no idea what was lost. Solas sees modern Thedas in the same way our Inquisitor saw the alternate future. Broken. She made her decision, and that world ceased to be. Now Solas has made his.

 

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

 

 

Quoting this in full because it needs to be seen again.
 

[wildannie]

Imagine if in the next game we meet the rest of the Evanuris and it turns out that they are not as bad as Solas makes them out to be. That would be a real plot twist. After all, we are only getting his side of the story.

 

I'd wondered if their imprisonment might have given (one/some of them) time to reflect and grow to regret their actions rather than letting their hatred ferment over the millenia. It could also be that they do not all survive, they could have fought amongst themselves leaving one remaining, who has absorbed all the others powers   

 

It sounds like he's planning to do it in a gentler way compared to Corypheus, but then why can't he bring down the veil without killing people?

 

I wonder if it not actual death that he is referring, rather change to the point that they are no longer the same person.  The difference between a tranquil and a normal mage is massive.  If you fix a tranquil mage, you have kind of 'killed' the tranquil.  Change = death

[Vlk3]

So, it's either Inky or Morrigan then (assuming if what you said will happen of course). That would be very interesting. I'd love to see how this would all play out.

 

Damn, this makes me want to play DA4 even more. 

I can't wait to see that too. I may be wrong, but for me, it makes much sense. The Veil will go down one way or another. We'll be able to stop Solas from doing it. We will finally see the consequences of drinking from Well of Sorrows. A lot of things add up.

 

Maybe if we convince Solas to stop, he will help us deal with the aftermath.

[Illyria]

I feed off drama and Solas hasn't let me down yet. All I ever want out of a romance is for it to tell me a good story. For a lot of Inquisition romances? The book is open and shut. Some got an epilogue in Trespasser. Some hint at a bit of headcanon towards the end.

 

Solas's story isn't over yet. In fact, it ramped up. As long Solas's characterization isn't trashed in the process, and given Trespasser I don't think it will, I can't see how I couldn't be intrigued where this whole story is going. 

 

Lately bioware fandom has had this sort of mob mentality happen where any character that has something 'problematic' about them must either be: a. purged away by blaming the writer, or b. reviled and any fans of said character must be problematic themselves. I don't think there's anyone saying genocide is right, even if they wanted an option for their Lavellan to join in on the elfpocalypse. People just want to be told a good story, and not everyone needs a character that's only going to give out hugs. 

 

Bioware games would be extremely boring if they were populated by 'yes' men. Having a sympathetic villain isn't tricking you. Sometimes you love bad people. 

 

Not that you can't hate the character. I think its pretty clear bioware loves if people hate characters too- so long as its for the right reasons. Hating Solas because he's an bastard who is considering an elfpocalypse= right reason. Hating Anders because he flirted with your male character once= wrong reason. 

 

I don't know where I'm going with this, I just work up. TLDR; the ride never ends. 

 

I've seen people (mostly on tumblr - which also tends to have huge issues with anyone who goes Templar side which just makes me very tempted to make the most pro-Templar, pro Chantry character ever) saying that Bioware should never have even offered option X (usually Tranquillity, but feel free to add anything problematic in here) but I think that's missing the point of an RPG.  If anything I think there should've been MORE options like that.  I wouldn't have taken them, but they should be there for the RP drama. 

 

tl:dr - tumblr is my problematic fav.
 

[AllThatJazz]

I have  a theory that even if we're able to convince Solas to change his plans, it will be too late. Some things will be put in motion and the final action will be required, Solas might stop at this... but he's not the only one who wants the Veil gone. Someone else will tear down the Veil. My bet is on whoever drank from the Well of Sorrows.

 

There were no consequences for it yet, and we know there will be. Flemeth says that she has no orders for you...yet. It will matter a great deal in the end.

Oh my God that would be amazing, a scene where the Inquisitor is compelled to finish what Solas started, as he begs her to stop 

 

Is it time for DA4 yet??

[LilithMB]

 

I wonder if it not actual death that he is referring, rather change to the point that they are no longer the same person.  The difference between a tranquil and a normal mage is massive.  If you fix a tranquil mage, you have kind of 'killed' the tranquil.  Change = death

Hmmmm. And some of those more rare spirits will die and go and be reborn like his wisdom friend. So it would make sense that he is in pain about destroying lavellans or friend inqys rare and marvelous spirit. And she wouldnt even remember him

[Janic99]

 

I just finished Trespasser on my Solasmancer, Aela Lavellan.

 

My reaction:

 

Anyway, the DLC and "conclusion" to the Solas romance made me think of this song, and now I have it stuck in my head.  I think I'm going to make a video with it.

Lyrics:

Spoiler

Musing through memories,

Losing my grip in the grey.

Numbing the senses,

I feel you slipping away.

Fighting to hold on,

Clinging to just one more day

Love turns to ashes,

With all that I wish I could say.

 

I'd die to be where you are.

I tried to be where you are.

 

Every night, I dream you're still here.

The ghost by my side, so perfectly clear.

When I awake, you'll disappear,

Back to the shadows

With all I hold dear.

With all I hold dear.

I dream you're still here.

I dream you're still here.

 

Hidden companion

Phantom be still in my heart

Make me a promise that

Time won't erase us

That we were not lost from the start.

 

I'd die to be where you are

I tried to be where you are

 

I dream you're still here,

Ever slightly out of reach.

I dream you're still here,

But it breaks so easily.

I try to protect you,

I can't let you fade.

 

I feel you slipping.

I feel you slipping away.

 

OH THANK YOUU!  I forgot this song's name after I had seen it in one video and I can now make a solavellan video of this :3 I actually made one but youtube is having some issues I guess cause it won't let me upload anything on it ö.Ö yet nothing's wrong with my account

weird... 

[The Oracle]

But I bet if the Inquisitor had ventured out of Redcliffe Castle during 'In Hushed Whispers' and found people living there, carving out a harsh life, falling in love, having babies (because life goes on, even in the crappiest of circumstances), some would have said the same thing. 'Help us save this world, there's good in it too'. And in the current world, there will be those Elves willing to sacrifice themselves for a better future for Elvhen even if they themselves aren't part of it. To someone whose world is about to come to an end, 'you're going to die' and 'you're going to never have existed' are fairly meaningless distinctions.

 

I don't think at this point we can guess what the ultimate result of collapsing the veil will be, or the exact number of deaths - it might be horrific, it might be okay (especially if it's possible to find some way to mitigate the worst of the damage), it will likely be somewhere in between. But I do believe that something in the world of Thedas needs to change, soon and dramatically, and it's possible - just a possibility, mind you - that removing the veil is a better solution than doing nothing at all. I honestly think that there's more to find out yet, and that the stakes are bigger than we've realised so far.

 

Which as a player is incredibly exciting, but as a Lavellan is utterly terrifying and heartbreaking!  

 

Edit: Probably worth making it clear again that I'm not okay with Solas's plan. Just brainstorming and enjoying a debate x 

 

But in Hushed Whispers, you reset things so that those people still exist. They still had the chance to go out and fall in love and have children. They get another chance. 

 

And what number of deaths stands to be okay? A few hundred? a few thousand? What's acceptable? Thedas needs to change sure, but it's the change that people like Cassandra and Dorian enact. It's the slow change of good people fighting for what's right, pushing against the corruption. I am struggling to think of any point in history where good was ever achieved by the mass destruction of life.

 

It comes down to his talks with Varric and Sera where he tells them that they're not what they "should" be. What he's really saying is that they're not what he thinks they should be. For all we know, Varric's perfectly content to be himself, to be cut from the stone and it's his opinion that matters, not Solas's. Sera's the same. 

 

It's an interesting debate with regards to morality. For me, I just think that no amount of good can justify the deaths of others to achieve it. There's no acceptable losses. Maybe I'm idealistic. Maybe the current world mood has me brooding on things a little too much. while i'd like to see what a collapsed veil would bring to Thedas, I doubt my PC's would be on the supportive end of it.

[Illyria]

 

Catching up!

I don't think that's a very applicable metaphor. There's wars going on, yes but there's also peace, and love, and happiness to be found. It's like you woke up, said this world sucks, then you met an slightly devolved human and fell in love with them, and you became friends with some of those aliens. You saw the beauty and joy in that world and were on the pinnacle of a different decision but then decided "Uhhhhh, but my world was just way better and the regular humans were just way better and we had internet and cellphones.... guess I must destroy this one and bring back the old one!"

 

Definitely, that Cresswood scene was horrible special to me. They did a good job for him being last minute anyway, but I do wonder why Cullen (who was also last minute) had sooo many more scenes.

 

*.* 

Yes you can use it! I'd love to read it when you're done! 

 

Personally, I can't abide the murder of innocent people, no matter the apparent rewards. Even when I play more roguish characters they're only deviant in the way Sera is. There is always good to be found in the toughest situations. Kind templars, humans campaigning for elven rights, people who want the world to be better, but see that you can't make things better with innocent blood on your hands.

 

This is really well put, you've wrapped up my thoughts completely.

 

Oh my goodness XD it looks like a bodice ripper!!

 

 

 

Cullen was actually added some time before Solas.  We found out he was an LI either just shortly before or shortly after the year delay was announced (due to Greg Ellis leaking it on his twitter).  I have a feeling Cullen was someone they already had bunch of content with no time to use for.
 

[Eivuwan]

I'd wondered if their imprisonment might have given (one/some of them) time to reflect and grow to regret their actions rather than letting their hatred ferment over the millenia. It could also be that they do not all survive, they could have fought amongst themselves leaving one remaining, who has absorbed all the others powers   

 

 

I wonder if it not actual death that he is referring, rather change to the point that they are no longer the same person.  The difference between a tranquil and a normal mage is massive.  If you fix a tranquil mage, you have kind of 'killed' the tranquil.  Change = death

 

This is what I am hoping for, but that would make his character less controversial. It's kind of like how a lot of people hated the synthesis ending in ME3 because you made a decision that affects the entire galaxy without getting the permission of the people you are affecting. Although in Shepard's case, he/she didn't have a lot of time to think. However, most people still see that as the best choice compared to the other two. I don't think this would be moral, but it would be more acceptable if by destroy, Solas means that everyone would lose their memories due to their minds being too weak to withstand the force of the fade. However, everyone would still survive in spirit form with the possibility of regaining their memories over time. And then in Dragon Age 5, we will have a rebellion of some of the spirits who regained their memories against the spirits of the ancient elves.

[kalasaurus]

OH THANK YOUU!  I forgot this song's name after I had seen it in one video and I can now make a solavellan video of this :3 I actually made one but youtube is having some issues I guess cause it won't let me upload anything on it ö.Ö yet nothing's wrong with my account

weird... 

 

You're welcome.  It's such a fitting song for Solavellan, isn't it?  I can't get it out of my head now after finishing Trespasser XD

[ZhengAn]

That little benefit we got from drinking the well in trespasser... make me suspect that they are trying to mislead some of the player to think inquiz drinking well is safer/more useful option with some short term benefits. I'm expecting some plot twist for those who drank in DA4.

[Vlk3]

Oh my God that would be amazing, a scene where the Inquisitor is compelled to finish what Solas started, as he begs her to stop 

 

Is it time for DA4 yet??

Imagine that:

Solas is convinced to let go of his plan. Everyone is relieved, tears of joy in their eyes. Then suddenly this strange mark of gaes shows up on Quizzy's face (the same when Mythal forces her/him to restrain Morrigan) and you know that there's something really really wrong. Solas looks at you with terrified realisation and before anyone can do anything, you tear down the Veil and a massive sh**storm ensues.

[Cee]

I think the key to redeeming or stopping Solas is his answer to your question of why is it necessary to destroy the world in order to bring by the elves. It's more than just bringing down the veil because he told Lavellan about that without hesitation. I don't really have any idea what this missing information might be though.

 

Well mine offered to go with him.   (I usually have to take special/all optional dialogue choices unless they seem out of character ) Before most of his plan was revealed, and it played out more or less in a way that felt right. Offer to go with him,  the "I can't bear to think of you alone"...doing this to yourself, etc. And maybe with a bit to work on stopping him. It maxed the sad. I'm pretty sure I had the feelsiest possible playthrough there.

[Cee]

Imagine that:

Solas is convinced to let go of his plan. Evryone is relieved, tears of joy in their eyes. Then suddenly this strange mark of gaes shows up on Quizzy's face (the same when Mythal forces her/him to restrain Morrigan) and you know that there's something really really wrong. Solas looks at you with terrified realisation and before anyone can do anything, you tear down the Veil and a massive sh**storm ensues.

 

Shhh, don't give the devs ideas.

 

In my canon, Morrigan drank, so I'm really curious to see what will happen.

[kalasaurus]

Imagine that:

Solas is convinced to let go of his plan. Evryone is relieved, tears of joy in their eyes. Then suddenly this strange mark of gaes shows up on Quizzy's face (the same when Mythal forces her/him to restrain Morrigan) and you know that there's something really really wrong. Solas looks at you with terrified realisation and before anyone can do anything, you tear down the Veil and a massive sh**storm ensues.

 

Yesssss.  My Lavellan drank from the Well.  I want all the plot twists.

[kalasaurus]

Well mine offered to go with him.   (I usually have to take special/all optional dialogue choices unless they seem out of character ) Before most of his plan was revealed, and it played out more or less in a way that felt right. Offer to go with him,  the "I can't bear to think of you alone"...doing this to yourself, etc. And maybe with a bit to work on stopping him. It maxed the sad. I'm pretty sure I had the feelsiest possible playthrough there.

 

Mine did too.  She also picked the tearful response that Dread Wolf really did take her, and I found out that they never really did do the bow chika wow wow.

[Vlk3]

Shhh, don't give the devs ideas.

 

In my canon, Morrigan drank, so I'm really curious to see what will happen.

I think they have even worse ideas.

In my canon it was Morrigan as well. I suspect that she wil be around and then this will be her job. Not as emotional I imagine but people will be angry at Morrigan. But if Inquisitor tears down the Veil...just imagine what will happen to these forums.   It would be glorious...

 

I'm a bad person, apparently.