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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#124751
wildannie

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That little benefit we got from drinking the well in trespasser... make me suspect that they are trying to mislead some of the player to think inquiz drinking well is safer/more useful option with some short term benefits. I'm expecting some plot twist for those who drank in DA4.

 

Lol that would be cruel! So it will probably happen! I've got two lavellans who did not drink from the well.  I'll need to play one who does to ensure I've got all bases covered.  I'm really worried that my favorite Lavellan made Cole more human and I have a fear that him being more spirit could be crucial to the possibility of redemption for Solas.



#124752
maia0407

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Imagine that:

Solas is convinced to let go of his plan. Evryone is relieved, tears of joy in their eyes. Then suddenly this strange mark of gaes shows up on Quizzy's face (the same when Mythal forces her/him to restrain Morrigan) and you know that there's something really really wrong. Solas looks at you with terrified realisation and before anyone can do anything, you tear down the Veil and a massive sh**storm ensues. :devil:

I love this idea and I hope it happens. The guilt and anguish that my Lav would feel will be immense. And, she knows of only one elf that might be able to help her deal with those feelings!


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#124753
CapricornSun

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Shhh, don't give the devs ideas. :P

 

In my canon, Morrigan drank, so I'm really curious to see what will happen.

 

Morrigan drank in my canon as well. Guess we'll see the consequences of that in DA4. :P

 

 

Mine did too.  She also picked the tearful response that Dread Wolf really did take her, and I found out that they never really did do the bow chika wow wow.

 

That's a matter of debate. :P


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#124754
Lilaih

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That little benefit we got from drinking the well in trespasser... make me suspect that they are trying to mislead some of the player to think inquiz drinking well is safer/more useful option with some short term benefits. I'm expecting some plot twist for those who drank in DA4.

I think full effect of drinking from the Well is yet to be revealed. Over all the whole Well quest was hardest decision for me in game. Most of choices were really easy and to me obvious, but that damn well. Got to admit that I loved the irony of Morrigan to be tied to her lovely mother when I learned that Mythal is Flemeth.



#124755
kalasaurus

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That's a matter of debate. :P

 

He said he didn't want to lay with her under false pretenses after she said that.  Hmm... I'm going back over that scene now XD.  I may have missed something.  I was too busy crying.



#124756
AllThatJazz

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But in Hushed Whispers, you reset things so that those people still exist. They still had the chance to go out and fall in love and have children. They get another chance. 

 

And what number of deaths stands to be okay? A few hundred? a few thousand? What's acceptable? Thedas needs to change sure, but it's the change that people like Cassandra and Dorian enact. It's the slow change of good people fighting for what's right, pushing against the corruption. I am struggling to think of any point in history where good was ever achieved by the mass destruction of life.

 

It comes down to his talks with Varric and Sera where he tells them that they're not what they "should" be. What he's really saying is that they're not what he thinks they should be. For all we know, Varric's perfectly content to be himself, to be cut from the stone and it's his opinion that matters, not Solas's. Sera's the same. 

 

It's an interesting debate with regards to morality. For me, I just think that no amount of good can justify the deaths of others to achieve it. There's no acceptable losses. Maybe I'm idealistic. Maybe the current world mood has me brooding on things a little too much. while i'd like to see what a collapsed veil would bring to Thedas, I my Pc's would be on the supportive end of it.

But what changes? What's changed for the Elves over the past thousand years, really? They get helped by Andraste, then taken down again by the Exalted March of the Dales. They get helped (possibly) by the Hero of Ferelden, but nothing comes of it beyond some temporary, localised improvements in Denerim's alienage. Attempts at rebellion in TME are crushed by Celene. The Inquisitor may try to help, is there really hope that such change will be permanent this time? How many thousands, or hundreds of thousands have died waiting for this slow change that never seems to materialise or crushed by the authorities that oppose it? Why is the slow drip-drip death of a people inherently less tragic than the quicker, more violent deaths of the same number? It seems to me it's just easier to ignore if people are dying quietly waiting for something to happen.

 

Same with mages - don't the trespasser end slides indicate that the chantry reforms are stalled or getting bogged down or whatever? Aren't the circles back, only two years after a war that saw Mages and Templars tearing each other apart? How many more young mages have to be put through a brutal Harrowing before they stop being seen as the universal boogyman?

 

In real terms, what about the American Revolution? The English Civil War, which led to the beginnings of parliamentary democracy (worldwide, I believe)? The French Revolution? The American Civil War? Horrible violence, many deaths and trauma, yet effecting change that ultimately benefited more than it hurt.

 

And In Hushed Whispers, those same people don't necessarily exist - from the children who were born in that year (to couples who never meet without those specific circumstances), to those who are effectively different people because we are formed by our experiences.

 

I agree, an interesting moral debate! I can see why anyone prefers slow change, it's my own instinct too fwiw, but I can also see why people can gravitate to sudden, violent change that forces an issue to the forefront, particularly when said people have been subjugated for a hellishly long time.  

 

Edit: Again, not agreeing with the mass bloodshed potential in Solas's plan, but I think different points of view are worth exploring nonetheless :)


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#124757
Lilaih

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He said he didn't want to lay with her under false pretenses after she said that.  Hmm... I'm going back over that scene now XD

1st explanation

They didn't do it at all.

 

2nd explanation

They did it, but it wasn't Dread Wolf who took her. It was just Solas, man behind the title.


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#124758
Illyria

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Mine did too.  She also picked the tearful response that Dread Wolf really did take her, and I found out that they never really did do the bow chika wow wow.

 

They did if you wanted them to.

 

The line is ambiguous. It either means he didn't trick her (because he was Solas first) but didn't sleep with her, or it means that when they slept together it was real. He wasn't the Dread Wolf, he was just Solas.


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#124759
Commander of the Grey

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Wanted to get ya'lls opinion on something if anyone cares to chime in. I was replaying the temple of Dirthamen last night and happened across the dead scavenger where it pops up that he was stabbed in the back and there's a look of terror on his face.

It made me think of the dead qunari we find in Trespasser that died in much the same way, some with no marks at all.

I mean, we see the ones at the very beginning that solas turned to stone and then the ones at the end. So did he or the spirits scare the rest to death? Or is someone else running around behind the scenes doing it?

Probably just a coincidence but it caught my attention and I'd like to think that Sandal's prophecy wasn't talking about Solas, that (Dirthamen) another from the pantheon is trying to gain strength and manipulate from the shadows.

There's the codex in the fade that's cryptic like: we have found the dreams again, we will awaken. Always made me think of the pantheon, though it could be the Old Gods too I guess.

Anyway, you folks are smarter than me with this stuff.

#124760
Cee

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That's a matter of debate. :P

 

<3

 

My likes are on and off at the moment.

 

 



#124761
NightSymphony

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Oh Sunny, I've been meaning to ask you..How was the convention?  Did you dress up? :D



#124762
Vlk3

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I think full effect of drinking from the Well is yet to be revealed. Overall the whole Well quest was hardest decision for me in game. Most of choices were really easy and to me obvious, but that damn well. Got to admit that I loved the irony of Morrigan to be tied to her lovely mother when I learned that Mythal is Flemeth.

I'm still not 100% convinced what to do with the Well on my canon playthrough. My mage Lavellan is far too curious and elfy to let go and let Morrigan drink it, but on the other hand, she knows she will be stripped of her free will and this is something she can't allow. And it seems strange for her that Solas reacted so harshly when she offered him to drink from it. She figured that the consequences may be too much for her, and she was afraid what would that mean for her and Solas. So, regretfully, she allowed Morrigan to drink it. (Though I often think what would be more in character for her).

 

My other Lavellan (a rogue) drank from the Well, so I will see the consequences in one of my games anyway.


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#124763
Cee

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It made me think of the dead qunari we find in Trespasser that died in much the same way, some with no marks at all.

I mean, we see the ones at the very beginning that solas turned to stone and then the ones at the end. So did he or the spirits scare the rest to death? Or is someone else running around behind the scenes doing it?

 

 

Turning things to stone isn't his only ability. He is doing magic of at least two kinds in Trespasser that we see without a staff and without touching. He's incredibly powerful, and thus I'm pretty sure the tales of a mage through the passages and qunari dead with no marks on them are perfectly within his toolbox.



#124764
kalasaurus

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1st explanation

They didn't do it at all.

 

2nd explanation

They did it, but it wasn't Dread Wolf who took her. It was just Solas, man behind the title.

 

Oooh, I like that second explanation.  Ok, I'm going with that now lol.



#124765
kalasaurus

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This is why I like going to the forums.  I totally missed that.



#124766
CapricornSun

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Oh Sunny, I've been meaning to ask you..How was the convention?  Did you dress up? :D

 

I'll send you a PM. :)


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#124767
Sah291

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I just don't understand how he could
 

Spoiler


I think he probably does, but Lavellan is ultimately yet another victim of his actions, and the more he loves her, the worse he feels. First of all, his actions nearly get her killed at the conclave, and then she survives, only to have the mark/anchor (his magic) threaten to destroy her in the end anyway. Now she's physically mutilated and has lost her arm, because of him. She and her people (modern elves) were harmed and are suffering because of him. It's his fault.

I think he simply can't accept her or the world, because that would mean having to face the guilt, and all the death he's caused. Its too horrific to him and Lavellan is a symbol of all that. He justifies destroying her world, almost like putting down a sick/dying dog, so it won't suffer. He even say as much himself, how he'd rather them go out peacefully. It's twisted and monsterous and sad. He might succeed in restoring the world as it was, but it could never be the same. Even if everyone somehow survived it, they would all be changed. What makes the current world different and unique would all be lost.

Man, I finally just finished the game yesterday, and romanced Solas is so dark and haunting and disturbing, and beautiful at the same time. Gah. What a good DLC....definitely worth the wait. I'm a bit surprised though how they ended it with the hint of a new story arc for the Inquisitor....I wasn't expecting that. Does this mean they might continue the story in DA4? That would be wonderful, if so. I was so excited to see Quizzy stabbing Tevinter on the map!
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#124768
Lilaih

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I'm still not 100% convinced what to do with the Well on my canon playthrough. My mage Lavellan is far too curious and elfy to let go and let Morrigan drink it, but on the other hand, she knows she will be stripped of her free will and this is something she can't allow. And it seems strange for her that Solas reacted so harshly when she offered him to drink from it. She figured that the consequences may be too much for her, and she was afraid what would that mean for her and Solas. So, regretfully, she allowed Morrigan to drink it. (Though I often think what would be more in character for her).

 

My other Lavellan (a rogue) drank from the Well, so I will see the consequences in one of my games anyway.

When I switched my Inquisitor's to Dalish that decision is harder and same time more tempting if you play as a mage. I mean Lavellan has fully legimate reason to drink, because it is her history. Still I think I'll let Morrigan drink in my canon playtrough.



#124769
Eivuwan

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Another thing that's interesting is that it seems as though the ancient elves were responsible for the demise of the dwarfs. The Evanuris including Mythal killed the pillars of the Earth aka the Titans and took over the land. By Solas' reasoning, the dwarfs have every right to destroy the elves and take back their homeland. It would be amusing if some ancient Titan's minions disrupt Solas' plan in order to implement their own plans to take over Thedas.



#124770
chibielf

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Imagine that:

Solas is convinced to let go of his plan. Evryone is relieved, tears of joy in their eyes. Then suddenly this strange mark of gaes shows up on Quizzy's face (the same when Mythal forces her/him to restrain Morrigan) and you know that there's something really really wrong. Solas looks at you with terrified realisation and before anyone can do anything, you tear down the Veil and a massive sh**storm ensues. :devil:

 

This sadness just popped in my head:

After being redeemed, Solas sees his Vhenan under the gaes of Mythal starting the spell to destroy the world. Out of desperation he grabs her, pulls her in a tight embrace and then... he takes a sword or more likely manifests a magic one and stabs her thru the back and him thru the chest in one thrust. He holds her tight as they fall to their knees and to their side. Laying on the ground as a pool of blood forms underneath them both you see her arm go limp and her eyes blank. Solas, whose sad face was buried in her hair, pulls away. Hand on her cheek, says something heartbreaking and then you see his hand go slack and his eyes move briefly from side to side and go unfocused. They save the world and die together. Never to be alone or apart again.

 

Then in the background, my new portag elf sheds tears as their LI Abelas (bi option) holds them and looks stoic. Says something profound and then they go off to make elf babies (choice, that or off together happy and stuffs sans wee elves) while DA5 protag fights the elvanuris.

 

:D


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#124771
maia0407

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Oooh, I like that second explanation.  Ok, I'm going with that now lol.

Yep, that' show I interpreted that line for my Lavellan. They did the deed at some point. But, I haven't decided my head cannon on a few things regarding a sexual relationship for them:

 

-Did they have sex only once or were they lovers, perhaps shared a tent, until he broke up with her?

-Did she wait to tell him she loved him until the break up scene or had she told him before? If they were regularly having sex I feel like this topic would have come up before then?

-When did they first do the deed? I'm thinking the night of the ball as they both seemed so relaxed and happy together. However, I get a bit worried that Solas was inebriated and don't want to think Lavellan took advantage.

 

Thoughts?


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#124772
k_drake

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But I bet if the Inquisitor had ventured out of Redcliffe Castle during 'In Hushed Whispers' and found people living there, carving out a harsh life, falling in love, having babies (because life goes on, even in the crappiest of circumstances), some would have said the same thing. 'Help us save this world, there's good in it too'. And in the current world, there will be those Elves willing to sacrifice themselves for a better future for Elvhen even if they themselves aren't part of it. To someone whose world is about to come to an end, 'you're going to die' and 'you're going to never have existed' are fairly meaningless distinctions.

You know, I had the same thought, and then I got all confused about whether or not Solas' plan is really ethically wrong from an objective perspective. o_O  Also remembered what happened to Solas' spirit friend in the the Exalted Plains--looks like matter is neither created nor destroyed in Thedas, either--and I think maybe Solas figures that most people will be reincarnated into a better world (even if they don't have their memories), so it's okay? 


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#124773
kalasaurus

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My Lavellan got a sweet crossbow prosthetic arm and became a Red Jenny with Sera after she disbanded the Inquisition.  My headcanan is that she and Sera search for Solas in the shadows  :ph34r:


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#124774
CapricornSun

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This sadness just popped in my head:

After being redeemed, Solas sees his Vhenan under the gaes of Mythal starting the spell to destroy the world. Out of desperation he grabs her, pulls her in a tight embrace and then... he takes a sword or more likely manifests a magic one and stabs her thru the back and him thru the chest in one thrust. He holds her tight as they fall to their knees and to their side. Laying on the ground as a pool of blood forms underneath them both you see her arm go limp and her eyes blank. Solas, whose sad face was buried in her hair, pulls away. Hand on her cheek, says something heartbreaking and then you see his hand go slack and his eyes move briefly from side to side and go unfocused. They save the world and die together. Never to be alone or apart again.

 

Then in the background, my new portag elf sheds tears as their LI Abelas (bi option) holds them and looks stoic. Says something profound and then they go off to make elf babies (choice, that or off together happy and stuffs sans wee elves) while DA5 protag fights the elvanuris.

 

:D

 

Amazingly enough, someone made fanart that is sort of similar to the scenario that you just mentioned...

 

Spoiler

 

Source: http://nanananananab...n-all-this-over

 

:crying:


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#124775
FernRain

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I'm not gonna make it to the 5k page, it's 5 a.m and my birthday so I wanna get some sleep ;). Happy 5k for when it arrives! :wizard:.


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