153434 réponses à ce sujet

[maia0407]

I think that even if he is being played, that does not take away any responsibility or guilt he might have.

We know he is not simply following orders. ("I am no one's agent but my own.") He has actively made the decisions to do everything he's done. To me, even if it turns out that his motives have been manipulated, he is still the Big Bad, there might just be another Big Bad out there. 

I agree. He's still responsible for his choices. I'm just hoping his choices are being forced in a lose/lose even more scenario if he doesn't act so that I don't have to view him as too morally corrupt in the end.

[S.W.]

That's the struggle I'm having right now. If Solas is being set up as the big bad, but turns out not to be, does that take away from him as a character? Or can we all then breathe a sigh of relief that he's just being used, able to rip the blinders off at the last moment and not fall but be redeemed? I don't know what to feel about this.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if he is being played, but then... how many of us wanted to deny he killed Felassan? Maybe it really wasn't him in the end, but it sure looks that way right now. And yet, if he did kill Felassan it fits and it's okay because it works with the character growth and and... Will not being the one in charge of his own plan take away from that same sort of character experience and growth?

 

Arrgh.

 

My main hope they play it so that Solas doesn't look incompetent. He's already screwed up two plans already. I'd hate for him to be a pawn in a much bigger one - again, showing that this shrewd, ruthless, and clever character on paper isn't actually as good as he seems in real life.

 

If they could set him up as the main villain without taking from his sympathetic qualities I will be impressed.

 

As for Felassan... I've accepted that. Still pissed, because I really liked the character. And I'd like to deny it - but Felassan's death contributes a lot to the development Solas' ruthless, villainous, Fen'Harel persona. I'm torn between liking Solas being an awesome villain and hating him for being an awful person and loving him because vhenaaan .

[Avejajed]

Oh god is this game over yet.

I love football but I can't even today.

[Cee]

how are we doing, Solas thread? I decided to sit down and write and found a bunch of fanfic I'd wrote way back in May and I've spent the last few hours editing bits and pieces instead of writing oh nooo. Also, job application rejections .

 

Boo, sorry about those rejections. Been not having much luck myself lately trying to get something better. A rough summer.

 

But with fic stuff, if you're like me, you will poke and poke and edit and poke some more until you just release it into the wild. Sometimes I just post things I'm not wholly satisfied with (which is....most of them!) just to get it out there and away from simply being hidden for me to continue to poke at. When I finished the one I wrote last night, I was just not happy with the ending but I'd managed to make myself pretty sad writing it so it kind of had to just get away from myself first.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Me: "I want to write fluff!" *writes angst and sads*

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time writing fluff ATM.  But it's good, because it's making me branch out.  I want to write for Lavellan, but I'm not in the mood to deal (much) with Solas and all his angst.  So I write more with other characters: the artificers, Dorian, Bull, the Chargers, etc.  And it's been a lot of fun!

[MayriyaNoori]

Neither do I, but I also have faith in Our Weekes of Edmonton, hallowed be His name

 

I never, ever thought it would be possible to set Solas up as both a villain, and still a sympathetic LI.  Weekes pulled that off and made it look easy in the process.  His dialogues for Solas have so many potential layers of interpretation that I'm still happily peeling them back over a week after Trespasser, and close to a year after the game was released.  I have confidence that he'll make it work.

I have to say, because of the brilliant set up Mr. Weekes has given Solas the person in me wants to help Solas. Even just as a friend, because my Lavellan is currently cuddling in the corners of cafes around Thedas while Zevran takes a sip of her drink before her to make sure no one is trying to poison her. /swoon

 

However, the gamer in me really hopes that if we have to fight Solas in a future game, that better be the most historic boss fight in video game history because I can't stress enough how badly it would ****** me off to have this insane character build up only to have some little tank n' spank.

 

Like, I don't want to fight him. But if I have to, it better be the boss fight of the century. Because in Thedas it would be like the boss fight of the millennium.

[midnight tea]

I've been saying that about Mythal since the day after Trespasser came out (because that's when I beat it).  Solas might very well be the Big Bad, but I repeat:  Mythal has mentioned vengeance over the course of three games, as Flemeth.  We saw what vengeance leads to in DA2 with Anders.  She might even be the driving force, somehow, behind Solas's plans.  We don't know.

 

I'm not sure I see it that way. Vengeance may mean many things, some less literal than others - I mean, what's a better "in your face" revenge on an enemy that wants to destroy the world you worked to create than to ensure its survival or guarantee its chance to thrive, for example?

 

Dunno.... I just don't buy Mythal as driven only by straightforward vengeance, just like I don't buy that it will turn out that Solas plan is just plain "stupid". There's a lot we yet don't know, even if some clues in the story suggest that things will either go in one direction (some fundamental change to the world prophesied and hinted at since DAO), or that there are more forces at play here than a few would-be gods with a chip on their shoulder on the loose.

[Elessara]

There is no conflict though.  In the last 2 weeks I can't recall even one time that anyone over here said anything that could be taken as bashing another character or their fans.  We make jokes about a lot of things, including Solas, and ourselves.  No one has intent to offend or harm anyone else.  Unless I missed something crazy earlier today I don't see where any of this is coming from.  The Solas thread has a reputation for being a Unicorn on the internet for a reason.  That doesn't mean we're infallible and don't have things crop up once in a while.  I have never seen an Abelas vs Solas conflict.  Not in this thread, not recently.  If there was stuff while I was on hiatus well *shrug* I guess I am wrong. 

 

Eh, I wasn't paying attention to the whole thing but someone here said something tongue-in-cheek about Abelas and someone else didn't like it?  I think and then the person who said they didn't like it said they weren't coming back here and then I think Ave went to the Abelas thread and was told that Solasmancers were sad and desperate?  That's what I took from it but like I said, I wasn't paying too much attention cause .. yeah.

 

I prefer talking about lore lol.

[Uirebhiril]

My main hope they play it so that Solas doesn't look incompetent. He's already screwed up two plans already. I'd hate for him to be a pawn in a much bigger one - again, showing that this shrewd, ruthless, and clever character on paper isn't actually as good as he seems in real life.

 

Ahh, yes. I think that describes it for me right there. I like the idea of him making his choices, standing by them, accepting the responsibility and the fault of whatever they may be. It makes him real and tragic in a way that being a duped dunderhead never could. I expect they could show him being played and still hold that impression of competence and personal acceptance anyway, but... I don't know. How would that even work? Being betrayed at the very end, maybe. I'm still not sure.

[Sable Rhapsody]

However, the gamer in me really hopes that if we have to fight Solas in a future game, that better be the most historic boss fight in video game history because I can't stress enough how badly it would ****** me off to have this insane character build up only to have some little tank n' spank.

 

Like, I don't want to fight him. But if I have to, it better be the boss fight of the century. Because in Thedas it would be like the boss fight of the millennium.

 

It might wind up being (kind of) like Saren.  Whether you boss fight Solas or not depends on your actions.

 

 

Dunno.... I just don't buy Mythal as driven only by straightforward vengence, just like I don't buy that it will turn out that Solas plan is just plain "stupid". There's a lot we yet don't know, even if some clues in the story suggest that things will either go in one direction (some fundamental change to the world prophesied and hinted at since DAO), or that there are more forces at play here than a few would-be gods on the loose.

 

I joke about him being the God of Bad Ideas, but I don't think his plan will be straight-up stupid.  Yet I also don't think it'll work as intended.  Every time Solas's plans have gone awry, every single goddamn time, it's been as a result of him underestimating people.  First Briala, then Corypheus, then the Inquisitor.  And here he is, continuing to underestimate modern Thedosians, talking in Trespasser as though the future is inevitable    

 

Part of it is probably him secretly wanting to be stopped, but I don't think it's going to go as smoothly as he assumes.

[Cee]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time writing fluff ATM.  But it's good, because it's making me branch out.  I want to write for Lavellan, but I'm not in the mood to deal (much) with Solas and all his angst.  So I write more with other characters: the artificers, Dorian, Bull, the Chargers, etc.  And it's been a lot of fun!

 

My issue is my default setting seems to be writing feels and sadness.   I want to write fluff because that would be different. I need to think of new Dorian-Lavellan BFF stories, maybe.

 

edit: Ha, yeah I just made myself tear up by rereading what I wrote last night. I really need to give my Lavellan some happy times.

[Eivuwan]

Which of the inquisition options do you think it's the best for stopping Solas? My Lavellan chose to disband the organization because it's already infiltrated by spies from everywhere. In addition, the existence of the organization is causing a lot of political tension, which may end up creating a war between Orlais and Ferelden. It may be harder to track Solas if the organization is disbanded, but then he's visiting my Lavellan in her dreams so that may be one way of tracking him lol. I think it's best to start over and personally recruit new followers who are trustworthy.

[Eivuwan]

It might wind up being (kind of) like Saren.  Whether you boss fight Solas or not depends on your actions.

 

 

 

I joke about him being the God of Bad Ideas, but I don't think his plan will be straight-up stupid.  Yet I also don't think it'll work as intended.  Every time Solas's plans have gone awry, every single goddamn time, it's been as a result of him underestimating people.  First Briala, then Corypheus, then the Inquisitor.  And here he is, continuing to underestimate modern Thedosians, talking in Trespasser as though the future is inevitable    

 

Part of it is probably him secretly wanting to be stopped, but I don't think it's going to go as smoothly as he assumes.

 

I think it's undeniable that he has a God complex even though he says that people shouldn't worship the Evanuris as gods. This is probably his biggest flaw and why he has such a miserable life. Having a God complex makes him feel like he has to be the only one to change anything and it also makes him look down on/underestimate people.

[Brass_Buckles]

I'm not sure I see it that way. Vengeance may mean many things, some less literal than others - I mean, what's a better "in your face" revenge on an enemy that wants to destroy the world you worked to create than to ensure its survival or guarantee its chance to thrive, for example?

 

Dunno.... I just don't buy Mythal as driven only by straightforward vengeance, just like I don't buy that it will turn out that Solas plan is just plain "stupid". There's a lot we yet don't know, even if some clues in the story suggest that things will either go in one direction (some fundamental change to the world prophesied and hinted at since DAO), or that there are more forces at play here than a few would-be gods with a chip on their shoulder on the loose.

 

I get that a lot of people adore Flemeth/Mythal.  I don't hate her or anything.  I just don't see her as ultimately being up to any good.  She's pushed to help the heroes, sure, but she's always implied that this was for her own ends.  We never really knew what those ends were.  We still don't, but she was pretty heavy-handed about wanting vengeance in DAI.  The reason I think that she might want the Veil taken down to free the Evanuris is because what Solas did wasn't vengeance enough to satisfy her.  He consigned them to eternal torment, and that wasn't enough.  She surely knows what he did, surely she understands that is a terrible vengeance to have wrought--and yet, she's still trying to exact vengeance.  I fully believe that has been her goal all along.

 

There's also the matter of asking her why she didn't help the elves--and she responds that you don't know what you're asking.  Well, okay then, explain it.  Or is it because she's in with Solas and wants to remove the Veil?  Because I think that's part of it--that's why she gave him her power.  She wanted the old world restored.  It's not to say she doesn't care about the present world, but that's probably her way of helping the elves, just as it is Solas's way to help the elves.  The problem is it doesn't really help modern elves, does it?

 

Someone even mentioned maybe using all the modern elves as fuel for a massive blood magic ritual.  That is not something I can see Solas doing (because Fade), but it's something I could see Flemeth/Mythal having knowledge of.  Whether she'd do it or not, I don't know.  I repeat that something, even if misunderstood, within Flemeth's grimoire was shocking and horrible to Morrigan in what it involved, even beyond Flemeth taking her daughters' bodies.  Morrigan was not a soft personality back then, nor is she now.  Whatever was in there, it was terrible.  She might have misunderstood the purpose, but does that matter if the means to the end are awful?  Much like Solas's plans, the end result may actually be desireable, but is it worthwhile if you have to become a monster to achieve those results?

 

I do wonder if part of the reason the evanuris all went bad is that old saying, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."  In the end that includes Solas and probably Mythal too.

[MayriyaNoori]

Which of the inquisition options do you think it's the best for stopping Solas? My Lavellan chose to disband the organization because it's already infiltrated by spies from everywhere. In addition, the existence of the organization is causing a lot of political tension, which may end up creating a war between Orlais and Ferelden. It may be harder to track Solas if the organization is disbanded, but then he's visiting my Lavellan in her dreams so that may be one way of tracking him lol. I think it's best to start over and personally recruit new followers who are trustworthy.

I think we need to follow that advice he gave Sera in how to run an organization with a goal.Because even though the result did cause some serious problems....Solas did succeed in locking away 6 super powerful mages.

 

The man doesn't consider consequences well, but his organizational skills are pretty legit I'd say.

 

I went with disband.

[Cee]

Which of the inquisition options do you think it's the best for stopping Solas? My Lavellan chose to disband the organization because it's already infiltrated by spies from everywhere. In addition, the existence of the organization is causing a lot of political tension, which may end up creating a war between Orlais and Ferelden. It may be harder to track Solas if the organization is disbanded, but then he's visiting my Lavellan in her dreams so that may be one way of tracking him lol. I think it's best to start over and personally recruit new followers who are trustworthy.

 

 

I didn't like any of the options, but I did not disband. I chose "We'll keep the peace" which I did mainly because I have Leliana as Divine and I trust her, and I feel the organization has some benefits that a small group may not. Even with the risks.

[Jayla]

I have to say, because of the brilliant set up Mr. Weekes has given Solas the person in me wants to help Solas. Even just as a friend, because my Lavellan is currently cuddling in the corners of cafes around Thedas while Zevran takes a sip of her drink before her to make sure no one is trying to poison her. /swoon

 

However, the gamer in me really hopes that if we have to fight Solas in a future game, that better be the most historic boss fight in video game history because I can't stress enough how badly it would ****** me off to have this insane character build up only to have some little tank n' spank.

 

Like, I don't want to fight him. But if I have to, it better be the boss fight of the century. Because in Thedas it would be like the boss fight of the millennium.

 

I get the feeling that any confrontation we get with Solas personally will be through dialogue, like the "final fight" with the Illusive Man in ME3. Although, while it made sense for his character I remember a lot of people being disappointed they couldn't fight-fight him, so I don't know if they'd risk that again for DA. Saying that I'd totally love to gather info and stuff over the course of the game, and then be able to lay it all on Solas at the very end and - providing you did enough - you could convince him back to the winning side. Otherwise, you'll have to fight him in a to the death scenario.

 

That's the gamer in me talking though. x) The Solavellan in me JUST WANTS TO SQUEEZE HIM TO THE WINNING SIDE!

[Sable Rhapsody]

Which of the inquisition options do you think it's the best for stopping Solas? My Lavellan chose to disband the organization because it's already infiltrated by spies from everywhere. In addition, the existence of the organization is causing a lot of political tension, which may end up creating a war between Orlais and Ferelden. It may be harder to track Solas if the organization is disbanded, but then he's visiting my Lavellan in her dreams so that may be one way of tracking him lol. I think it's best to start over and personally recruit new followers who are trustworthy.

 

I think it's a wash.  It probably won't make a huge difference in the Inquisition's success, just in its methods.

 

But I picked disband for Lavellan.  She's done her time as Inquisitor, and while she did well, it was never something she liked.

[maia0407]

I think we need to follow that advice he gave Sera in how to run an organization with a goal.Because even though the result did cause some serious problems....Solas did succeed in locking away 6 super powerful mages.

 

The man doesn't consider consequences well, but his organizational skills are pretty legit I'd say.

 

I went with disband.

I went with disband for the reasons you stated. The organization was corrupted with spies. She didn't know who she could trust beyond her inner circle. She also didn't like the tension with the Orlais and Ferelden. Furthermore, a 'peace keeping' body wasn't defined very well. Is she keeping her army? Is she like the UN? What does that even mean?

 

My Lavellan never sought power to begin with and felt that she needed to follow the tradition of the original Inquisition and disband. She wanted be able to focus on her true goal of stopping Solas. She has enough contacts and allies to draw upon that she doesn't need the inquisition anymore.

[_Lucinia]

I get that a lot of people adore Flemeth/Mythal.  I don't hate her or anything.  I just don't see her as ultimately being up to any good.  She's pushed to help the heroes, sure, but she's always implied that this was for her own ends.  We never really knew what those ends were.  We still don't, but she was pretty heavy-handed about wanting vengeance in DAI.  The reason I think that she might want the Veil taken down to free the Evanuris is because what Solas did wasn't vengeance enough to satisfy her.  He consigned them to eternal torment, and that wasn't enough.  She surely knows what he did, surely she understands that is a terrible vengeance to have wrought--and yet, she's still trying to exact vengeance.  I fully believe that has been her goal all along.

 

There's also the matter of asking her why she didn't help the elves--and she responds that you don't know what you're asking.  Well, okay then, explain it.  Or is it because she's in with Solas and wants to remove the Veil?  Because I think that's part of it--that's why she gave him her power.  She wanted the old world restored.  It's not to say she doesn't care about the present world, but that's probably her way of helping the elves, just as it is Solas's way to help the elves.  The problem is it doesn't really help modern elves, does it?

 

Someone even mentioned maybe using all the modern elves as fuel for a massive blood magic ritual.  That is not something I can see Solas doing (because Fade), but it's something I could see Flemeth/Mythal having knowledge of.  Whether she'd do it or not, I don't know.  I repeat that something, even if misunderstood, within Flemeth's grimoire was shocking and horrible to Morrigan in what it involved, even beyond Flemeth taking her daughters' bodies.  Morrigan was not a soft personality back then, nor is she now.  Whatever was in there, it was terrible.  She might have misunderstood the purpose, but does that matter if the means to the end are awful?  Much like Solas's plans, the end result may actually be desireable, but is it worthwhile if you have to become a monster to achieve those results?

 

I do wonder if part of the reason the evanuris all went bad is that old saying, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."  In the end that includes Solas and probably Mythal too.

I'm on the same page as you I think when it comes to Flemythal.  Flemeth has been one of my favorite DA characters since forever.  With that said, I have never thought that she has noble/pure intentions.  I just love how grey she is, ya know?  She's a fantastic character.  I hope there's going to be more of her or her machinations in future installments. 

I love that Bioware has made so many characters in this series that fall into the morally grey alignment.  They're complex.  There's things to love about them, sometimes they do good things, but there's enough there to still kind of fear what their real intentions are.  Morrigan is also one of my favorite characters.  For largely the same reasons.

[Eivuwan]

I think it's a wash.  It probably won't make a huge difference in the Inquisition's success, just in its methods.

 

But I picked disband for Lavellan.  She's done her time as Inquisitor, and while she did well, it was never something she liked.

 

I think my Lavellan was just so tired of everything and no longer wants to deal with a large organization that comes with a bunch of political problems, corruption, etc.

[Elessara]

I didn't like any of the options, but I did not disband. I chose "We'll keep the peace" which I did mainly because I have Leliana as Divine and I trust her, and I feel the organization has some benefits that a small group may not. Even with the risks.

 

I wasn't particularly pleased with either option either though I understand they want to limit the number of variables for each world state.

 

I chose to disband.  I prefer security over a larger organization.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I get the feeling that any confrontation we get with Solas personally will be through dialogue, like the "final fight" with the Illusive Man in ME3. Although, while it made sense for his character I remember a lot of people being disappointed they couldn't fight-fight him, so I don't know if they'd risk that again for DA. Saying that I'd totally love to gather info and stuff over the course of the game, and then be able to lay it all on Solas at the very end and - providing you did enough over the course of the game - you could convince him back to the winning side. Otherwise, you'll have to fight him in a to the death scenario.

 

The dialogue fight with TIM wasn't well-received, but that doesn't mean the concept is bad.  Deus Ex's social boss fights are some of my favorite parts of the game: they can be a little finicky, but when done well, they evoke this really excellent feeling of tension and high stakes.

[Solas]

slides in where my vhenans at

[midnight tea]

Ahh, yes. I think that describes it for me right there. I like the idea of him making his choices, standing by them, accepting the responsibility and the fault of whatever they may be. It makes him real and tragic in a way that being a duped dunderhead never could. I expect they could show him being played and still hold that impression of competence and personal acceptance anyway, but... I don't know. How would that even work? Being betrayed at the very end, maybe. I'm still not sure.

 

Iiii... think the whole "is he a player or being played" is a false dichotomy. He and a few other players have an elaborate chess-match in which each likely tries to undermine or use plans of another. That's the way I see it.

 

The end result will be most likely beneficial to those who had made the right moves with resources they've had on the world's chessboard. With some unexpected twists and random chance thrown in there for a good measure. Just like Solas' and Bull's game. I mean - who plays whom if Solas makes others think that they can use him and then it turns out that he pushed his pawn in the right spot?

 

And while Solas has made quite a few miscalculations, I think most of them stem from the fact that he's gambling with the fate of the world - but I don't think he's unaware that he has more than Inquisitor (or Flemeth? Or Blight) against him. If he's smart - and he's established that he is indeed scary smart - then it's out-of-character for him to be played to any sort of large extent.

 

What I'm interested with is how much of a pawn or player Inquisitor is. Let's face it - they're mortals, largely unaware what's happening yet and the extent of obstacles that lies before them. Solas seems to be confident that they're smart enough to figure stuff out, yet I wish I could see Quizzy's arc to conclude with them entering the scene as a player in their own right and setting the stage up.