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[AutumnOracle]

Also I played a rogue Warden you still get to enter the fade and interact with it. Practice makes perfect right?

I figure the only advantage mages have is ease. They are more likely to interact without being shown a path and it's more natural when they are manipulating it.

[Jayla]

Urgh! Why'd I have to be out of likes for the 5k milestone. Oh well.

Happy 5k guys!

May our blanketfort hold ever strong and TEAM OPTIMISM TRIUMPH IN THE FACE OF DESPAIR!

Hearts for everyone!:

 

I figure that eventually he'll snap. Like in the Crestwood breakup scene when he won't let you touch him. In the dreams if you reach out for him he disappears.

If he ever touches you it will be Fade kiss 2.0.

 

I've said this a lot recently, but i would read that fic. GIMME!

[NeverlandHunter]

Happy 5000!

 

As for muggle Lavellans, I figure that if people IRL can teach themselves to lucid dream without any magic, people in Thedas can too.  Solas says that anyone who can dream can befriend a spirit, and I would imagine that you have to have some awareness to befriend anything in the Fade.  Also mine made bros with Hakkon after his rebirth.  She's never going to have the same clarity that she had with the Anchor, nor can she defend herself like a mage.  But she's aware that she's dreaming, and she has some protection against nightmares.

I don't know, if that were true than wouldn't more people be in danger of possession?

[AutumnOracle]

Urgh! Why'd I have to be out of likes for the 5k milestone. Oh well.

Happy 5k guys!

May our blanketfort hold ever strong and TEAM OPTIMISM TRIUMPH IN THE FACE OF DESPAIR!

Hearts for everyone!:

I've said this a lot recently, but i would read that fic. GIMME!

If I could write I would give it to you. It's all that's been dancing in my head lately

[Patchwork]

I personally headcanon that with the Mark gone the voices from the Well can be heard more clearly, which is both a good and a bad thing. 

 

And Cole can peek into Quizzy's head now. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

I don't know, if that were true than wouldn't more people be in danger of possession?

 

Um, non-mages CAN be possessed.  We saw them do it in DA2, forcing a demon into the templar recruits.  It just takes a lot more effort. 

[drosophila]

I personally headcanon that with the Mark gone the voices from the Well can be heard more clearly, which is both a good and a bad thing. 

 

And Cole can peek into Quizzy's head now. 

 

Couldn't he do that before? He did peek with that post-breakup banter.

[Jayla]

Sure, but she could very well have done it during DA:I, when she had the Anchor to help her along.  In my headcanon (stressing, just headcanon though I think it's not outlandish), one of the first things Lavellan asked Solas to teach her was lucid dreaming.

 

Losing the Anchor doesn't mean you lose the skill.  It's like the loss of the arm; it makes everything harder, and it makes some things nearly impossible, but you're not totally SOL.

 

I headcanon that with the Anchor she could lucid dream anyway, but lost it after losing her arm. One of the first things she does in Tevinter is find someone who can teach her. It's supposedly difficult and requires a special kind of diet (if anything my cousin tells me about it is true), but I imagine just knowing how to do it once makes it easier.

[TheEggCrusher]

I don't know, if that were true than wouldn't more people be in danger of possession?

Yeah, exactly. I guess what everybody is saying is that having the anchor previously would have given her experience in traveling the fade, so it would be easier later even after she didn't have the anchor anymore. 

 

What really bothers me is the difference between Solas's ability and Lavellan's ability, especially if Lavellan is not a mage and after she loses the anchor. Solas would have the complete advantage in that situation, and no matter how I think about it this scares me. Probably because I have power issues and have been sexually harassed and my best friend was raped, but I digress. I don't think Solas would ever do anything bad, but just the thought of him having more power in the fade than Lavellan and him seeking her out in that situation makes me extremely uncomfortable. 

[Patchwork]

Couldn't he do that before? He did peek with that post-breakup banter.

 

He did but he also said the Inquisitor is too bright to read, maybe he just got glimpses every so often?

 

A neat way for BW to sidestep Cole not saying anything about the Inquisitor while dishing the personal details of everyone else I guess.  

[AutumnOracle]

Reading the canticle of Shartan in WoT:2. Did anyone ever flesh out if this is Solas? I wasn't sold but as I read the canticle it lends itself more towards that.

It doesn't say the date of the originating tales(maybe they harvested old ones) however the canticle talks of them fleeing Vol Dorma; other names of the city include Marnas Pell, Solas, Marothius or Hasmal..

[midnight tea]

Sure, but she could very well have done it during DA:I, when she had the Anchor to help her along.  In my headcanon (stressing, just headcanon though I think it's not outlandish), one of the first things Lavellan asked Solas to teach her was lucid dreaming.

 

Losing the Anchor doesn't mean you lose the skill.  It's like the loss of the arm; it makes everything harder, and it makes some things nearly impossible, but you're not totally SOL.

 

Yep - I assume its similar to what Solas implied if the mage picked Rift Mage specialization. He said it took him years to perfect the technique, while the Anchor worked as a catalyst for Quizzy to achieve the same level of proficiency when manipulating the raw Fade (Your Trainer also demonstrates that a mage without an Anchor can achieve the same - even if without the guidance of Solas and protection of the Anchor your mind can get a little... scrambled )

 

Anyway, I don't think that all that gets lost after the loss of the Anchor - the speed with which Inquisitors picked everything up might not be as astounding, but as long as they've trained their mind and honed their skills, I'm pretty sure they retained either their Fade-manipulating skills or ability of conscious dreaming.

[drosophila]

He did but he also said the Inquisitor is too bright to read, maybe he just got glimpses every so often?

 

A neat way for BW to sidestep Cole not saying anything about the Inquisitor while dishing the personal details of everyone else I guess.  

 

Oh, I must've missed that he said that. I always assumed whatever Cole is saying about Inky is open to headcanon.

 

(Come to think of it, I assume anything is open to headcanon unless they smack me over the head with canon facts )

[Jayla]

If I could write I would give it to you. It's all that's been dancing in my head lately

 

Please. And I'd appreciate a PM, sometimes this thread moves so fast I don't bother trying to catch up. xD

[Sable Rhapsody]

So here's what we've got in-game about non-mages and the Fade:

• Non-mages can enter the Fade and be lucid there (Warden in Broken Circle, Warden-Commander in Blackmarsh, Hawke in Feynriel's quest chain, quizzy in Here Lies the Abyss)
• Even dwarves can enter the Fade under extraordinary circumstances.  They don't appear disoriented, and they do remember what happened while they were there (Varric after Feynriel's quest if he betrays Hawke in the Fade)
• Among the Avvar, spirits can influence their warriors and rogues (The Trial of Hakkon) in the physical world
• Religious rites allow all Avvar, mage or not, to communicate with spirits (shown during the Up and Away sidequest)
• Templar recruits can be possessed, though it takes a tremendous amount of effort

Mages are not unique in having a connection to the Fade.  Mages have a strong, conscious connection whereas everyone else's connection is fuzzy.  But even among non-mages, the ability to navigate the Fade and its spirits varies with practice (for example, the difference between an Avvar who fights with the protection of spirits and a chevalier who does not).

[maia0407]

I headcanon that with the Anchor she could lucid dream anyway, but lost it after losing her arm. One of the first things she does in Tevinter is find someone who can teach her. It's supposedly difficult and requires a special kind of diet (if anything my cousin tells me about it is true), but I imagine just knowing how to do it once makes it easier.

I've had a few lucid dreams and didn't find it all that difficult to get into that state. No special diet either! I just focus on lucid dreaming before I go to sleep and slip into it. It doesn't always work and I haven't done it in awhile but it's not too hard.

[Jayla]

Yep - I assume its similar to what Solas implied if the mage picked Rift Mage specialization. He said it took him years to perfect the technique, while the Anchor worked as a catalyst for Quizzy to achieve the same level of proficiency when manipulating the raw Fade (Your Trainer also demonstrates that a mage without an Anchor can achieve the same - even if without the guidance of Solas and protection of the Anchor your mind can get a little... scrambled )

 

Anyway, I don't think that all that gets lost after the loss of the Anchor - the speed with which Inquisitors picked everything up might not be as astounding, but as long as they've trained their mind and honed their skills, I'm pretty sure they retained either their Fade-manipulating skills or ability of conscious dreaming.

 

This reminds me of the end to His Dark Materials. Lyra could read the alethiometer and work out its multi-layered meaning quickly, where ordinarily it would take years of study and even then reference books would need to be readily on hand. At the end she loses the ability to read it as quickly, but she hasn't lost the ability altogether, and endeavors to try again. It'll take a lot longer, but she can do it and I'll bet a lot quicker than any other person.

[midnight tea]

He did but he also said the Inquisitor is too bright to read, maybe he just got glimpses every so often?

 

A neat way for BW to sidestep Cole not saying anything about the Inquisitor while dishing the personal details of everyone else I guess.  

 

He implies that (at least approved) Inky is too bright either way.

 

He says "You're too bright - like counting birds against the sun. The Mark makes you (even) more (bright)". So the Mark seems to add to the brightness, rather than be a source of it all.

 

I don't think however that brightness prevents Cole from getting a good read though. As long as there's something Compassion can connect to, he does. We can hear that in banter (like hilarious banter on Inky/Iron Bulls sex practices that leaves Inky mortified, lol)

 

Plus, exactly after the whole "too bright" comment he gives a reading of Quizzy and remarks how hard it is for them to carry all the expectations and dreams of others their position as Herald and Inquisitor has put on them.

[Jayla]

I've had a few lucid dreams and didn't find it all that difficult to get into that state. No special diet either! I just focus on lucid dreaming before I go to sleep and slip into it. It doesn't always work and I haven't done it in awhile but it's not too hard.

 

Same for me, but only with dreams I've had before and they're usually nightmares. I reach a part in the dream and I have a sudden thought of "Wait, I've done this before", and at that point I can control the dream, usually for the better. For example, Nemesis from Resident Evil 3 doesn't kill me this time around. xD

[Patchwork]

Yeah, exactly. I guess what everybody is saying is that having the anchor previously would have given her experience in traveling the fade, so it would be easier later even after she didn't have the anchor anymore. 

 

What really bothers me is the difference between Solas's ability and Lavellan's ability, especially if Lavellan is not a mage and after she loses the anchor. Solas would have the complete advantage in that situation, and no matter how I think about it this scares me. Probably because I have power issues and have been sexually harassed and my best friend was raped, but I digress. I don't think Solas would ever do anything bad, but just the thought of him having more power in the fade than Lavellan and him seeking her out in that situation makes me extremely uncomfortable. 

 

I can understand that concern. By Trespasser Solas is vastly more powerful than anyone in Thedas including Lavellan and TBH if they get back together my hope is that he's depowered by like a lot.  

 

The Fade is controlled by will so I think a Lavellan, even a non-mage one, who remembers that should be okay but on the other hand the Fade is Solas' playground. He has more experience and a Dreamer's talent for manipulating it. The big question is if the Inquisitor dreams of the "Inquisition's" next move and he's there and sees it will Solas use that information to set up a counter move?

IMO he would.   

[maia0407]

Same for me, but only with dreams I've had before and they're usually nightmares. I reach a part in the dream and I have a sudden thought of "Wait, I've done this before", and at that point I can control the dream, usually for the better. For example, Nemesis from Resident Evil 3 doesn't kill me this time around. xD

One of my most memorable dreams was a scary falling dream. I realized while I was falling that I was dreaming and started flying. It was fun!

[Sable Rhapsody]

This reminds me of the end to His Dark Materials. Lyra could read the alethiometer and work out its multi-layered meaning quickly, where ordinarily it would take years of study and even then reference books would need to be readily on hand. At the end she loses the ability to read it as quickly, but she hasn't lost the ability altogether, and endeavors to try again. It'll take a lot longer, but she can do it and I'll bet a lot quicker than any other person.

 

"You read it by grace, and you can regain it by work."

 

Love that book so much.

[midnight tea]

I can understand that concern. By Trespasser Solas is vastly more powerful than anyone in Thedas including Lavellan and TBH if they get back together my hope is that he's depowered by like a lot.  

 

The Fade is controlled by will so I think a Lavellan, even a non-mage one, who that remembers that should be okay but on the other hand the Fade is Solas' playground. He has more experience and a Dreamer's talent for manipulating it. The big question is if the Inquisitor dreams of the "Inquisition's" next move and he's there and sees it will Solas use that information to set up a counter move?

IMO he would.   

 

Wouldn't it be great if it was a plot point in the next game? Like - the romanced or liked Inquisitor knows what Solas schtick is, plus they did their homework with the Fade, indomitable focus and so on, therefore their mind is their fortress from which Solas can't really 'steal' much (or he may even be wary of Inky 'stealing' something from his).

 

Disapproved Quizzies though, who never heeded Solas advice could be like an open book for them, which will likely undermine at least some of their plans.

[AutumnOracle]

And Shartan looked upon the Prophet Andraste
And said: "The People will set ourselves free.
Your host from the South may march
Alongside us."

How long was Andraste after the veil? It sounds an awful lot like him. I'm bad on the timing but it sounds like the elves escape the Evanuris and stumble upon Andraste as she stages her war against Tevinter. Anyone better at timelines?

[Sah291]

For those who romanced Anders do you feel less betrayed by the former rather than Solas? As someone who has yet to play the Trespasser DLC as well as romance Solas I was wondering how everyone is taking this and really is there any logical reason why anyone would agree to help Solas from the standpoint of the Inquisitor? Ander's plan while not on the scale of Solas's still made a massive impact on the world of Thedas. Yet me personally I can forgive Ander's and go about having my male Hawke still let him live and stay involved with him. I don't think I will be able to do so with my fem elf Inquisitor...

Well, Solas and Anders are alike in the sense that they both take an idea/goal to an extreme end...to the point they sorta turn into their opposite, in a way. I could see Quizzy sympathizing with the end goal in some sense, since they both believe in similiar ideas, but that's precisely why its so disturbing. Like Solas is a dark mirror in a way. But no the plan won't end well for her, or either of them really. So no.