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[figment_]

Total change of subject, but I'd been pondering something while taking a shower yesterday (yes, the shower is my "overthinking lore and theorizing" time, why do you ask? )

 

We've been wondering about the link between spirits and ancient elves and theorizing about spirits taking physical shape before. We know this to be true as Cole does exactly that. Well, I got to ponder the opposite. What would happen, in time, to someone trapped physically in the Fade? Isn't it somewhat strange that, whenever we ask Justinia's spirit in the fade what she is, she never actually gives us an answer. We can choose the answer that she's a spirit taking Justinia's shape and a few others I don't quite remember, but she never actually agree to any of it. What if... What if, the same as a spirit can take shape in the real world if they wish it enough and are strong enough, that a physical being with a strong enough spirit (which I would guess the Divine to be) could actually somehow leave their physical shape behind? Literally become a spirit most closely resembling their physical personnality. In Justinia's case, this would be a faith spirit, no? And the explanation is so mind boggling that trying to explain it during the events in the fade just would take too long. And if this is so, what does it mean for whoever was left in the fade, if they survived the nightmare? After all, no one can survive, physically, without food or water (even though there seems to be water in the fade, I doubt it's actually drinkable...) for very long.

 

But then, perhaps I just really want my Hawke to have survived and make an appearance again

I don't know how relevant this is, but wasn't there something mentioned about practiced dreamers in Uthenera being able to draw sustenance from the fade???

 

...crawls back under her rock in the blanket fort...

[Sah291]

Total change of subject, but I'd been pondering something while taking a shower yesterday (yes, the shower is my "overthinking lore and theorizing" time, why do you ask? )

We've been wondering about the link between spirits and ancient elves and theorizing about spirits taking physical shape before. We know this to be true as Cole does exactly that. Well, I got to ponder the opposite. What would happen, in time, to someone trapped physically in the Fade? Isn't it somewhat strange that, whenever we ask Justinia's spirit in the fade what she is, she never actually gives us an answer. We can choose the answer that she's a spirit taking Justinia's shape and a few others I don't quite remember, but she never actually agree to any of it. What if... What if, the same as a spirit can take shape in the real world if they wish it enough and are strong enough, that a physical being with a strong enough spirit (which I would guess the Divine to be) could actually somehow leave their physical shape behind? Literally become a spirit most closely resembling their physical personnality. In Justinia's case, this would be a faith spirit, no? And the explanation is so mind boggling that trying to explain it during the events in the fade just would take too long. And if this is so, what does it mean for whoever was left in the fade, if they survived the nightmare? After all, no one can survive, physically, without food or water (even though there seems to be water in the fade, I doubt it's actually drinkable...) for very long.

But then, perhaps I just really want my Hawke to have survived and make an appearance again

That's an interesting thought. Do you think maybe, the veil was what caused the drastic split in nature between spirits and mortal beings, with the two groups trapped on either side and having little contact. We know the elves eventually lost their immorality and magic, and probably spirits could have lost their ability to understand and interact in physical form over time. Maybe they didn't used to be so vulnerable to turning into demons or being bound, in the past. In order to push through the veil they need a lot of will power apparently, which explains why it is mostly demons that manage it, and less often gentle spirits like Cole.

[Colonelkillabee]

Hey at least you're not dreaming about it like I did last night, which is weird since I'm not as big a Solas fan as the rest of you. Don't know what to think about that.... lol.

 

He was walking with the Tolkein elves, going with them to leave Mordor/Thedas, wearing a single angel wing and halo made of dead brown vines. Strange not for that but for me having Solas dreams at all..

I mean middle earth, lol.... Fail.

[RoyalRel]

Hey at least you're not dreaming about it like I did last night, which is weird since I'm not as big a Solas fan as the rest of you. Don't know what to think about that.... lol.

 

He was walking with the Tolkein elves, going with them to leave Mordor/Thedas, wearing a single angel wing and halo made of dead brown vines. Strange not for that but for me having Solas dreams at all..

 

You already know my opinion of this dream of yours....but I will spare you this time and not elaborate here.  This time.

[Moondreamer01]

I don't know how relevant this is, but wasn't there something mentioned about practiced dreamers in Uthenera being able to draw sustenance from the fade???

 

...crawls back under her rock in the blanket fort...

There is! But they still have a physical body, as far as i know. This would be like... one step farther? Completely discarding the physical as a mean to survive. But, perhaps it wasn't something that even existed before the veil was brought up and prevented most people from physically entering the fade (while it stopped most from entering uthenera without dying).

[Colonelkillabee]

You already know my opinion of this dream of yours....but I will spare you this time and not elaborate here.  This time.

You better not missy. It was a WING!

[RoyalRel]

You better not missy. It was a WING!

 

Tsk, tsk. You are giving yourself away. Such a shame.

[Catfishers]

And now I made myself sad by replaying the end scene of Trespasser again..

The angry response is by far my favourite I think, Solas just looks like a kicked puppy

 

Spoiler

 

and his face when Lavellan cries out in pain..

 

Spoiler

 

I'll just be over in the sad corner and listen to Thousand Miles by Tove Lo on repeat 

 

The angry response is so good. Especially when Quizzy's like 'I would have had you trust me!' and poor Solas realises he's underestimated her again.

[BoscoBread]

That's an interesting thought. Do you think maybe, the veil was what caused the drastic split in nature between spirits and mortal beings, with the two groups trapped on either side and having little contact. We know the elves eventually lost their immorality and magic, and probably spirits could have lost their ability to understand and interact in physical form over time. Maybe they didn't used to be so vulnerable to turning into demons or being bound, in the past. In order to push through the veil they need a lot of will power apparently, which explains why it is mostly demons that manage it, and less often gentle spirits like Cole.

The thing is I don't think it worked as it does now.  Spirits seemed to be not really any different than "mortals".  From the Vir Dithara codex entires, we seem to get a sense that some were more spirit, some more human, they personalities were similar - some nasty, some mean.  You know...like people.  I think they followed the same logic patterns that we see(i.e. I am a compassion spirit etc etc) but didn't seem to be As bound to those rules.  They also could be bound(i.e. demon) - Xebenkeck was a spirit and was bound.  It likely was a thing that wasn't done because it seemed to be a horrific punishment, much like tranquility.  

 

But I do agree, I think the veil disrupted that balance. Suddenly everything had to be ONE or the OTHER.  Which is why I think Solas is so surprised Cole is what he is.  Especially if you make him more human.  

[Colonelkillabee]

Tsk, tsk. You are giving yourself away. Such a shame.

Shush or I'm getting the belt, woman

 

Hehehe

 

 

The thing is I don't think it worked as it does now.  Spirits seemed to be not really any different than "mortals".  From the Vir Dithara codex entires, we seem to get a sense that some were more spirit, some more human, they personalities were similar - some nasty, some mean.  You know...like people.  I think they followed the same logic patterns that we see(i.e. I am a compassion spirit etc etc) but didn't seem to be As bound to those rules.  They also could be bound(i.e. demon) - Xebenkeck was a spirit and was bound.  It likely was a thing that wasn't done because it seemed to be a horrific punishment, much like tranquility.  

 

But I do agree, I think the veil disrupted that balance. Suddenly everything had to be ONE or the OTHER.  Which is why I think Solas is so surprised Cole is what he is.  Especially if you make him more human.  

I think this would suggest that with or without Solas' intervention the veil would and is failing, even before the tear.

[Sah291]

The angry response is so good. Especially when Quizzy's like 'I would have had you trust me!' and poor Solas realises he's underestimated her again.

I finally just watched a video of a disliked Quizzy picking the "No, not really" line when he asks if you have questions...lol. Actually I find the companion reactions to the romance dialogue pretty funny. Especially Viv when you say you aren't over it during the spa scene. Plus the disapprovals when you say you have to save him. Except Cole. Cole is totally the Solavellan shipper of the group.

[BoscoBread]

Shush or I'm getting the belt, woman

 

Hehehe

 

 

I think this would suggest that with or without Solas' intervention the veil would and is failing, even before the tear.

HELLO!!!

 

Yeah, probably.  

 

He did a shoddy job, there were all lose weaknesses that we see throughout the series which have caused a lot of problems(Blackmarsh LOL). 

[Moondreamer01]

*snips*

 

 

I think this would suggest that with or without Solas' intervention the veil would and is failing, even before the tear.

Or that the breach is what allowed Cole to manifest as strongly as he does. But I like your explanation better. The veil is failing. It probably was never meant to be forever, and it's a testament to Solas' magical strength that it has lasted this long already. I wonder what would the consequences be to let it naturally fade away. It has to be much less catastrophic than bringing it down like Solas plans...

[RoyalRel]

Shush or I'm getting the belt, woman

 

Hehehe

 

 

I think this would suggest that with or without Solas' intervention the veil would and is failing, even before the tear.

 

Make sure it is a tough one then.

Now enough of this, or the Solas thread will kick us both out, lol.

[Catfishers]

I finally just watched a video of a disliked Quizzy picking the "No, not really" line when he asks if you have questions...lol. Actually I find the companion reactions to the romance dialogue pretty funny. Especially Viv when you say you aren't over it during the spa scene. Plus the disapprovals when you say you have to save him. Except Cole. Cole is totally the Solavellan shipper of the group.

 

My Quizzy and Viv didn't get along very well, so I couldn't help but read Viv's 'Oh you were terribly crushed when Solas left' as a little bit of a twist of the knife. 

 

Even with the 'Save Solas' dialogue being so dumb, I can't help but pick it just for Cole's support. Everyone else is just like 'Oh, honey... not again.'

[Colonelkillabee]

Make sure it is a tough one then.

Now enough if this, or the Solas thread will kick us both out, lol.

Heh, good idea

 

*gets a room*

[BoscoBread]

Or that the breach is what allowed Cole to manifest as strongly as he does. But I like your explanation better. The veil is failing. It probably was never meant to be forever, and it's a testament to Solas' magical strength that it has lasted this long already. I wonder what would the consequences be to let it naturally fade away. It has to be much less catastrophic than bringing it down like Solas plans...

I agree.  Putting the veil up was catastrophic but the world moved on naturally and evolved with it. To rip it away, would possibly(probably) be apocalyptic -- even the spirits recognize this and are trying to flee.  I think this speaks to Solas' personality. He can't sit still.  This world is so horrifying to him he has to do something NOW.  Instead of trying to find ways to maybe speed up the process and let it fade naturally he's like "NO, SORRY TINY GREMLIN VHENAN YOU HAVE TO DIE BECAUSE I CAN'T STAND IT!"

[FernRain]

I am frightened and intrigued at this banter @Colonel @Royal. The maker is watching you..

 

Also Shari, if you see this: I hope you like my new avatar .

 

P.S. Just realised Dirthamen's favourite is the bear, and he's my favourite.

 

Yes. This is good.

[Ardent Blossom]

Didn't someone look really closely at Solas' normal face texture and figure out he has stubble? Very faint, very closely shaved ginger stubble?

Or am I imagining things?

I believe Thedas elves canonically can grow facial hair. The guy in Redemption may or may not be canon, but Solas does reference facial hair in a banter. Though it may be a rare trait, like hornless qunari.

Yes, I saw that too. And your seeing it as ginger supports my Solas is a redhead theory so WOOT. Gaider is off the project, so canon can evolve. Maybe it just takes a really long time for elves to grow facial hair...time they used to have but don't any longer.

[Moondreamer01]

I agree.  Putting the veil up was catastrophic but the world moved on naturally and evolved with it. To rip it away, would possibly(probably) be apocalyptic -- even the spirits recognize this and are trying to flee.  I think this speaks to Solas' personality. He can't sit still.  This world is so horrifying to him he has to do something NOW.  Instead of trying to find ways to maybe speed up the process and let it fade naturally he's like "NO, SORRY TINY GREMLIN VHENAN YOU HAVE TO DIE BECAUSE I CAN'T STAND IT!"

He's quite impatient for an immortal being, isn't he? And prideful. Things aren't as they should, so not only do they need to change RIGHT THIS MOMENT, but he's the only one able to bring about that change, screw the consequence. A bit of a martyr complex too. "I'm a monster and I'll be remembered in history as a monster who destroyed the world but although no one will thank me, things will be better. I pinky promise." *rolls eyes*

[AutumnOracle]

Serious question that if it was posed before I'm sorry.

 

I don't know about the rest of the people here but I really loved the Dorian/Iron Bull romance. (Since I always roll female and am not interested in Iron Bull I always want them to be together).

 

I don't see a way to acknowledge that in my Keep save even though my ending slides had it.  If it doesn't take that into account but we get Dorian in future games I would be pretty upset.  Will they add more tiles to the keep or is there another way for them to import that data.  Or are we just going to pretend that it never happened 

[NightSymphony]

Hey there folks! Been a while!

 

Here to add a recently finished commission

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

and to wallow in despair because since I have PS3, I cannot play Trespasser. Someone please shoot me.

Regardless, I watched a playthough, because...what else is a girl to do?!

 

This is so beautiful!!  I really missed your pretty art.

 

I feel your pain...I have an XBox 360 so I can't play it either.
 

[Colonelkillabee]

Or are we just going to pretend that it never happened 

Probably, with all the nay sayers moaning about it and his abuse. Though it seemed like a fling mostly anyway.

[drosophila]

I agree.  Putting the veil up was catastrophic but the world moved on naturally and evolved with it. To rip it away, would possibly(probably) be apocalyptic -- even the spirits recognize this and are trying to flee.  I think this speaks to Solas' personality. He can't sit still.  This world is so horrifying to him he has to do something NOW.  Instead of trying to find ways to maybe speed up the process and let it fade naturally he's like "NO, SORRY TINY GREMLIN VHENAN YOU HAVE TO DIE BECAUSE I CAN'T STAND IT!"

 

The thing that bugs me the most is that gremlin vhenan and all the other gremlins are, in a way, his creations. He seems 80% responsible for the current state of the elves and the current state of the world. He recognizes that and wants to fix mistake - by killing them? Because they are not his people?

 

That's just incredibly insulting: I'm so sorry, tiny gremlin vhenan, my horrible mistake turned you, turned all of you into tiny gremlins. But now that it has, you are not my people anymore, you are gremlins. I will help my real people. Did I mention at first I didn't think you were real people?

[figment_]

There is! But they still have a physical body, as far as i know. This would be like... one step farther? Completely discarding the physical as a mean to survive. But, perhaps it wasn't something that even existed before the veil was brought up and prevented most people from physically entering the fade (while it stopped most from entering uthenera without dying).

Maybe...perhaps maintaining a physical body in the fade is easier because there is nothing disconnecting it, no barriers. Or it could be that a physical body is made irrelevant in the fade, not necessary for continued existence, but can be easily maintained if desired...