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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#126501
Sah291

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I think he has to get an army ready to stop the pantheon.  Opening the rift is step one, then bringing down the veil will release the pantheon.  he has to fight them most likely.


Oh I hope so. I really want to see Falon'din...mostly because he sounds terrifying and Solas seems to especially dislike him above the rest. I wonder if the reveal that the Elven gods were basically magisters makes it more likely they will show up in the future, especially with all these hints about Titans. Could that be the "war in the fade" Cole was referring to in his banter?
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#126502
maia0407

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I'm am probably the biggest feminist that most of the people around me personally know. I play things pretty critically.  I did get the banter in game and I felt that there was a subcontext to everything that was said between Bull and Dorian.  Like a game between the two of them that Quizzy wasn't as familiar with.  So I was okay with it.

 

Let me add a however though.  I got the banter after I knew about the issue and listened with that in mind and I can see how people might have construed that if they didn't know about Iron Bull's romance where he's super into consent.  It can feel like Iron Bull is hitting on Dorian and he doesn't seem receptive and Bull keeps hitting on him.  *For me the distinguishing factor was that in every conversation with everyone Dorian is always flippant.  And he's very good at the 'game' so sometimes when he says things I'm pretty sure he's saying other things*

 

In Bioware's defense I think they took that criticism into the Trespasser DLC and fleshed out that line and made it clear that while that type of playful teasing/banter still happened between them that they was nothing but caring. Another reason why I love Bioware.  They were concerned enough with how people took it that they mad sure the give it a bit better definition.

Thanks for the run down! Not really taking a side on the issue; I'm just tired of seeing feminists bashed.

 

It's the internet, there is no safe haven :P As for the rest, not gonna get into it except to say I don't agree with the feminists on most things, the type that frequent tumblr especially.

I can't say that comes as a shock!

 

I was not even close to implying that. It's a throwaway term and not one used "at feminists about consent issues".  That controversy was not ok.  The devs and writers were attacked for something that did not exist. There are no consent issues at play there and when they affirmed this with evidence it was not let go. There were A LOT of assumptions that were made that did not exist in the game.  

 

Also DO NOT presume you know or understand where my considerations and leanings lie regarding this. If you need clarification...ASK.  

Here's the thing, people have a right to criticize media especially in regards to consent. Apparently, a lot of assumptions had to be made regarding whether consent was obtained if the player hadn't seen Bull's romance with the quizzie. No issues there.

 

When you casually throw around terms like 'tumberina' assumptions about your leanings are going to be made just as I would make an assumption about someone using the term 'feminazi'. If you don't want to be misconstrued, perhaps refrain from those terms and not expect everyone to come to you and ask for your opinion when you just used coded language.


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#126503
figment_

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I agree with the Breach bein malevolent part, but honestly, I can't say there's anything Solas won't stoop to at this point T_T.

My only light right now's the fact that he gave the Qunari a chance to leave before killing them, and that he didn't abuse the well of sorrow's hold on my quizzy. But mass blood sacrifice... I mean, everyone's going to die anyway right? *sigh*

No, I disagree completely...I realize that I'm rather isolated in my opinions (even on this thread). I may be the only person on the planet that cannot see a shred of evil, malevolence, or villainous nature in his plans. I strongly believe he is being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically. Sundering the veil will have potentially catastrophic consequences, consequences of "all of the Magic coming back"...war, bloodshed, it's unavoidable, but will happen, and should happen IMHO...A necessary "evil" to restore the natural order of things. (But not actually evil in the literal sense)

 

Sometimes I feel like the last living Fen'Harel fangirl and Solas apologist. :unsure:

 

...goes back under her rock to hide in the safety of the blanket fort.


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#126504
Moondreamer01

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Couldn't find the twitter link but it's this one.

 

tumblr_nuj17wwFXY1rrsik5o1_1280.jpg

 

 

 

 

Source: http://olessan.tumbl...ication-on-what

That was the one, thanks! It's more ambiguous than I remembered it being though, which is... interesting to say the least.



#126505
Illyria

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*hands out friendship cookies*


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#126506
Fen'Eira

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Doesn't Solas already have direct access to the Fade through the Eluvians? I assumed Mythal's ability to connect the Fade to an Eluvian was part of the reason Solas took her power from Flemeth. Maybe he needs to find another orb to begin tearing down the Veil, if so, he will need to unlock it. I wonder why Cory needed the Divine to unlock Fen'Harel's orb? I assume it was just the Divine he needed and all the others who died from the explosion were collateral damage.

I don't think he necessarily needed the Divine, but that he could have used anyone for a blood ritual.  I think he used the Divine and doing the ritual at the conclave to dramatically push the point that there are no gods, no Maker, there was no one on the throne in the black/golden city, but he is there to take it.

 

I think he used the Divine for symbolic reasons.


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#126507
maia0407

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*hands out friendship cookies*

lol, I'll take a cookie, dammit.


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#126508
Ghost Gal

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And man that plan. I was one of the people who didn't think he'd be aiming to dismantle the Veil, because look at what the Breach did to Thedas. I thought him wanting that wouldn't be in character. Turns out his character was just more ruthless than I ever thought. And I don't know. On one hand (haha) I want the Veil gone too. I want to see the Fade wash over the world, and for Thedas's current oppressive power structures to collapse. But on the other hand, I suspect doing that would make Thedas inhabitable for all modern races, even elves. The anchor was the only reason Quizzy and party were able to survive the Fade after all, and we couldn't even hold onto the anchor for longer than 3 years, give or take.

And how's he going to go about removing the Veil?

...I've thought up this horrible theory that since the anchor's no longer an option, he might go with what the magisters did: mass blood sacrifice (of mostly elven blood), only on a worldwide scale.

Somebody please tell me there's another way T_T

 

I doubt he'd resort to that. :)

 

The magisters appropriated most of what they knew about magic from the crumbled remnants of Elvhenan and the ancient elves they enslaved. Listen to party banter between Dorian and Solas, and most of the things Dorian believes have Tevinter origin (various spells, artifacts, "first ever" person stepping physically into the Fade, etc), Solas counters started with Elvhenan.

 

Even then, it was magic they barely understood and wielded like children playing daddy's gun they found lying around, like Corypheus with the Orb. (Remember how he tried to take the Anchor from the Inquisitor at Haven, then was surprised that it didn't work, whereas at the end of Trespasser Solas removed it without any problem?) Reading some codex entries of the magisters that first entered the Golden City, they sound like they pieced their spell together from scraps of elven lore and input from elven slaves because they barely knew what they were doing, while Solas, who has spent untold millennia exploring every inch of the Fade and created the Veil in the first place, knows exactly what he's doing.

 

Finally, it sounds like Tevinter human mages just aren't as powerful as ancient elves (makes sense, considering they were formed after the Veil went up), so they often resorted to demon summoning and blood magic to artificially boost their power. The codex entries about the magisters that tore the Veil also revealed that they needed elven blood en masse for mysterious reasons. As of Trespasser, we know that elves are intrinsically tied to the Fade in ways no other race is, so in a way it would make sense that human magisters need elven blood to help trigger a (implied) elven "enter the Fade" ritual.

 

Solas is an ancient elf at full power who knows the Fade better than anyone. I don't think he'd need to resort to blood magic or elf sacrifice since he's powerful enough that he doesn't need it (he turned a whole fleet of Qunari into stone with a thought:blink: ) and is an elf and knows the Veil well enough that he can find another way.  :)


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#126509
Oswin

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In Bioware's defense I think they took that criticism into the Trespasser DLC and fleshed out that line and made it clear that while that type of playful teasing/banter still happened between them that they was nothing but caring. Another reason why I love Bioware.  They were concerned enough with how people took it that they mad sure the give it a bit better definition.

 

They definitely did.

I was not a great lover of Adoribull. Something about it made me uncomfortable at first. I'd just done a playthrough with a Dorian romance when I found out about them so I was very much seeing it all through Dorian-tinted glasses. My super special snowflake was being taken advantage by sex addicted Qunari, and I was going by what all the other Dorian fans were telling me, and they were making it all sound awful.

Then I jumped over to the IB fans and saw their side with 'This is a guy who dumps/gets hurt by the Quizzy when they won't acknowledge their relationship' and how Dorian seeming embarrassed whenever their relationship is brought up is kinda hurtful to the guy. 

 

So I spent hours upon hours upon freaking hours running around at the end of my game with Dorian and Bull to get the banter. I wanted to form my own opinions, and when it did trigger I was already regretting it  :lol: They both seemed like kinda bad for each other. Dorian seemed ashamed that he liked Bull and Bull kept airing their dirty laundry in public to make Dorian uncomfortable. It wasn't nearly as bad as people had made out it was, but I definitely wasn't filled with joy over it.

 

Fast forward to Trespasser and I honestly expected it would just get wiped. They had their fling and then Dorian goes back to Tevinter and it's done But nope. Better freaking romance then they have with the Inquisitor  :lol:  They quite clearly have grown close, then name Adoribull is something I can actually get on board with now and my Lavellan better be Dorian's 'Best Man' at their wedding. She'll make one hell of a speech. Then get blind drunk and sing them a song, while dressed in wolf furs because that's going to be her thing now. YOU GO GIRL. AT LEAST SOMEONE IN YOUR LIFE IS HAPPILY IN LOVE </3


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#126510
Colonelkillabee

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No, I disagree completely...I realize that I'm rather isolated in my opinions (even on this thread). I may be the only person on the planet that cannot see a shred of evil, malevolence, or villainous nature in his plans. I strongly believe he is being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically. Sundering the veil will have potentially catastrophic consequences, consequences of "all of the Magic coming back"...war, bloodshed, it's unavoidable, but will happen, and should happen IMHO...A necessary "evil" to restore the natural order of things. (But not actually evil in the literal sense)

 

Sometimes I feel like the last living Fen'Harel fangirl and Solas apologist. :unsure:

 

...goes back under her rock to hide in the safety of the blanket fort.

This, see, this is what people call denial :P I mean, you know that, you even called yourself an apologist ;)

 

edit: Not saying he's "EVIL evil" but he's flawed and does indeed have some maliciousness imo. He resents this world and still lives in the past, even if he does think it's a result of his actions.


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#126511
Sable Rhapsody

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Here's the thing, people have a right to criticize media especially in regards to consent. Apparently, alot of assumption had to be made regarding whether consent was obtained if the player hadn't seen Bull's romance with the quizzie. No issues there.

 

When you casually throw around terms like 'tumberina' assumptions about your leanings are going to be made just as I would make an assumption about someone using the term 'feminazi'. If you don't want to be misconstrued, perhaps refrain from those terms and not expect everyone to come to you and ask for your opinion when you just used coded language.

 

OK...guess I shouldn't have brought it up?  :huh:



#126512
flabbadence

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No, I disagree completely...I realize that I'm rather isolated in my opinions (even on this thread). I may be the only person on the planet that cannot see a shred of evil, malevolence, or villainous nature in his plans. I strongly believe he is being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically. Sundering the veil will have potentially catastrophic consequences, consequences of "all of the Magic coming back"...war, bloodshed, it's unavoidable, but will happen, and should happen IMHO...A necessary "evil" to restore the natural order of things. (But not actually evil in the literal sense)
 
Sometimes I feel like the last living Fen'Harel fangirl and Solas apologist. :unsure:
 
...goes back under her rock to hide in the safety of the blanket fort.


No come back :)). To clarify, I don't think Solas is evil. I don't think he's a monster, if we're looking at his reasons. But still, he's planning to end this world and possibly kill everyone that isn't an ancient elf. I love the dude, and I sympathize, but I just can't support that level of slaughter. I really hope we get to find another more peaceful way to remove the Veil instead.
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#126513
Ardent Blossom

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No, I disagree completely...I realize that I'm rather isolated in my opinions (even on this thread). I may be the only person on the planet that cannot see a shred of evil, malevolence, or villainous nature in his plans. I strongly believe he is being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically. Sundering the veil will have potentially catastrophic consequences, consequences of "all of the Magic coming back"...war, bloodshed, it's unavoidable, but will happen, and should happen IMHO...A necessary "evil" to restore the natural order of things. (But not actually evil in the literal sense)

 

Sometimes I feel like the last living Fen'Harel fangirl and Solas apologist. :unsure:

 

...goes back under her rock to hide in the safety of the blanket fort.

I'm with you 100%...and out of likes. Solas intentions are good not evil. His misguided course of action may have horrendous side effects--still GOOD INTENTIONS. Hopefully DA4 will allow players to find a better way to restore some of what was and to talk Solas out of his crazy.

 

Then again, perhaps people like us are just in denial. I hope there's room in that fort.

 

Edit: I see Colonelkillabee called us out on the denial.  :P


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#126514
maia0407

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OK...guess I shouldn't have brought it up?  :huh:

No, bringing the issues up is fine. I just don't like to see the side that is concerned with the issues being dismissed so casually. I just see it happen so often and I hoped a bit more sensitivity towards the issues would be at play in this thread. It's my hot button issue!



#126515
Fen'Eira

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It's unfortunate that his pride will not see that there may be another way to accomplish his goals.  He's so sure what path will set it all right again, but then he thought his path creating the veil in the first place was the only way to accomplish his goal.  

 

He truly needs someone to give him feedback on his choices and listen to advice rather than stubbornly making choices affecting every life on Thedas.  Basically, he's playing god and he doesn't see that he's doing so, which is as bad as those mage-kings he hated so much.


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#126516
flabbadence

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I doubt he'd resort to that. :)
 
The magisters appropriated most of what they knew about magic from the crumbled remnants of Elvhenan and the ancient elves they enslaved. Listen to party banter between Dorian and Solas, and most of the things Dorian believes have Tevinter origin (various spells, artifacts, "first ever" person stepping physically into the Fade, etc), Solas counters started with Elvhenan.
 
Even then, it was magic they barely understood and wielded like children playing daddy's gun they found lying around, like Corypheus with the Orb. (Remember how he tried to take the Anchor from the Inquisitor at Haven, then was surprised that it didn't work, whereas at the end of Trespasser Solas removed it without any problem?) Reading some codex entries of the magisters that first entered the Golden City, they sound like they pieced their spell together from scraps of elven lore and input from elven slaves because they barely knew what they were doing, while Solas, who has spent untold millennia exploring every inch of the Fade and created the Veil in the first place, knows exactly what he's doing.
 
Finally, it sounds like Tevinter human mages just aren't as powerful as ancient elves (makes sense, considering they were formed after the Veil went up), so they often resorted to demon summoning and blood magic to artificially boost their power. The codex entries about the magisters that tore the Veil also revealed that they needed elven blood en masse for mysterious reasons. As of Trespasser, we know that elves are intrinsically tied to the Fade in ways no other race is, so in a way it would make sense that human magisters need elven blood to help trigger a (implied) elven "enter the Fade" ritual.
 
Solas is an ancient elf at full power who knows the Fade better than anyone. I don't think he'd need to resort to blood magic or elf sacrifice since he's powerful enough that he doesn't need it (he turned a whole fleet of Qunari into stone with a thought:blink: ) and is an elf and knows the Veil well enough that he can find another way.  :)


Oh god thank you, reading this was incredibly soothing against my he's-going-to-resort-to-blood-sacrifice theory. Not so on my world saving inclinations :))
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#126517
Ardent Blossom

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It's unfortunate that his pride will not see that there may be another way to accomplish his goals.  He's so sure what path will set it all right again, but then he thought his path creating the veil in the first place was the only way to accomplish his goal.  

 

He truly needs someone to give him feedback on his choices and listen to advice rather than stubbornly making choices affecting every life on Thedas.  Basically, he's playing god and he doesn't see that he's doing so, which is as bad as those mage-kings he hated so much.

This! As I said before the one line that was missing from Trespasser was, "Solas, you claim that you are not a god, so why don't you stop acting like one?" Bioware better use that or something like it in the future.

 

Edit: Solas Screenie for top.

Spoiler


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#126518
Moondreamer01

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I don't believe Solas is evil, but I do think his own pain has made him blind to the world around him, and his plan is misguided at best. I also hope we can come up with alternate solutions for him, but in the end I have the suspicion some other actor will force our hand and the veil WILL come down. All we'll be able to do is deal with the fallout (and hopefully by then we'll have managed to mitigate some of the impacts *cross my fingers*)


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#126519
Wulfram

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If Solas isn't planning to destroy the world, he really needs to work on his PR skills. Maybe get Josie to give him some tips.
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#126520
figment_

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No come back :)). To clarify, I don't think Solas is evil. I don't think he's a monster, if we're looking at his reasons. But still, he's planning to end this world and possibly kill everyone that isn't an ancient elf. I love the dude, and I sympathize, but I just can't support that level of slaughter. I really hope we get to find another more peaceful way to remove the Veil instead.

See..that's the thing, I disagree that he's "planning to end the world" or "kill everyone." That's the part where I think he's being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically, only in reference to the collateral damage and possible consequences of dismantling the veil and releasing the (possibly very angry) Evanuris. His plan is to set things right by removing the veil, and to try to restore and recover what little remains of what was lost...His plan is NOT to "end the world", yet removing the veil may end the world as we know it.


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#126521
Uirebhiril

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Fenrir is ultimately killed by a son of Odin, I believe, who I think is supposed to personify vengeance/Justice. Quizzy definately has cause for vengeance now lol.

 

Still getting caught up, but... vengeance/justice... Mythal? Just imagine that. If we follow current theories, she called/formed/created him, and then at the end... will be the one to banish him? I mean, I hope not, but the possibilities of this story and how it will run are interesting to consider.



#126522
RynJ

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It's unfortunate that his pride will not see that there may be another way to accomplish his goals.  He's so sure what path will set it all right again, but then he thought his path creating the veil in the first place was the only way to accomplish his goal.

 

He truly needs someone to give him feedback on his choices and listen to advice rather than stubbornly making choices affecting every life on Thedas.  Basically, he's playing god and he doesn't see that he's doing so, which is as bad as those mage-kings he hated so much.

 

We're not sure that isn't the case. It's funny, I see a lot of people here talking about that decision like it was bad and wrong but we really don't have the information to say that yet. It seemed like the Evanuris were going to destroy the world, and possibly with something that slowly building up change wouldn't help. Solas might regret it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't the only seemingly viable move at the time and was objectively incorrect.

 

In his defense, who else in modern Thedas would have the knowledge and context to give him advice of that nature? Of course they don't want to die. Well, WE will be able to decide and convince him to change course, of course, because the characters we play are the only ones who get the final say. Only we get to play god in this universe, bucko!   ;)


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#126523
Moondreamer01

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See..that's the thing, I disagree that he's "planning to end the world" or "kill everyone." That's the part where I think he's being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically, only in reference to the collateral damage and possible consequences of dismantling the veil and releasing the (possibly very angry) Evanuris. His plan is to set things right by removing the veil, and to try to restore and recover what little remains of what was lost...His plan is NOT to "end the world", yet removing the veil may end the world as we know it.

That's... not that much better in my opinion. There are a lot of innocent people living in Thedas right now. Civilians who only want to live their lives in peace. They'll be the first casualties even if the "end of the world" is only a metaphor. How many deaths of non-combattants are acceptable? I know it's just a video game and we can be cavalier about collateral damage, but for a character in game, that would really push the limits of acceptable, even if the long terms result might be subjectively "better" than the present world.

 

Last time Solas did anything with the veil, he destroyed his own people, even if objectively the other alternatives were worse (in his own words). Leave the damn veil alone won't you? Your track record concerning it isn't good.


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#126524
flabbadence

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See..that's the thing, I disagree that he's "planning to end the world" or "kill everyone." That's the part where I think he's being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically, only in reference to the collateral damage and possible consequences of dismantling the veil and releasing the (possibly very angry) Evanuris. His plan is to set things right by removing the veil, and to try to restore and recover what little remains of what was lost...His plan is NOT to "end the world", yet removing the veil may end the world as we know it.


Hmm. Maybe. Hahaha if only he answered why this world couldn't survive his plans man *sigh*
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#126525
Shari'El

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I am frightened and intrigued at this banter @Colonel @Royal. The maker is watching you..

 

Also Shari, if you see this: I hope you like my new avatar ;).

 

P.S. Just realised Dirthamen's favourite is the bear, and he's my favourite.

 

Yes. This is good.

 

D:

Yeah, I already noticed!

 

cute


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