153429 réponses à ce sujet

[FernRain]

Before sleep, I gift you this from the mage hell spiral tumblr:

 

 

Hope. Take what you can get.

[flabbadence]

We're not sure that isn't the case. It's funny, I see a lot of people here talking about that decision like it was bad and wrong but we really don't have the information to say that yet. It seemed like the Evanuris were going to destroy the world, and possibly with something that slowly building up change wouldn't help. Solas might regret it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't the only seemingly viable move at the time and was objectively incorrect.
 
In his defense, who else in modern Thedas would have the knowledge and context to give him advice of that nature? Of course they don't want to die. Well, WE will be able to decide and convince him to change course, of course, because the characters we play are the only ones who get the final say. Only we get to play god in this universe, bucko!  

And now I'm totally on board the theory that the elves killing/corrupting the titans caused the blight

[Sah291]

No, I disagree completely...I realize that I'm rather isolated in my opinions (even on this thread). I may be the only person on the planet that cannot see a shred of evil, malevolence, or villainous nature in his plans. I strongly believe he is being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically. Sundering the veil will have potentially catastrophic consequences, consequences of "all of the Magic coming back"...war, bloodshed, it's unavoidable, but will happen, and should happen IMHO...A necessary "evil" to restore the natural order of things. (But not actually evil in the literal sense)

Sometimes I feel like the last living Fen'Harel fangirl and Solas apologist.

...goes back under her rock to hide in the safety of the blanket fort.

I've considered the possibility of it being metaphorical too, and simply opening the world up for the ~potential~ for great chaos/destruction, because the veil would be absent, but not necessarily a guarantee. Is Solas saying everyone will literally die, be blinked out of existence (as in time magic), or will people simply change drastically (Mass Effect synthesis ending). We don't really know yet. But I haven't decided whether the narrarive supports that view, after we just spent an entire game being shown the worse case scenario with Cory taking over, red lyrium spreading everywhere, etc. But you're right, it could be a red herring.

[figment_]

This, see, this is what people call denial I mean, you know that, you even called yourself an apologist

 

edit: Not saying he's "EVIL evil" but he's flawed and does indeed have some maliciousness imo. He resents this world and still lives in the past, even if he does think it's a result of his actions.

 

 

He freed the slaves...And had to turn the world on end ("destroying" the old world? To do it)...while facing seemingly insurmountable obstacles and fighting against the status quo and long-standing traditions. The Civil War changed the face of America and also the world.

Change=Death and Death=Change

...goes back under her rock to hide...

Anyone have a blanket fort??? ❤️

 

 

I think I can safely say his was a "noble struggle." "His actions" caused untold violence and bloodshed, hardship throughout the land and perhaps the world...I think it was worth it!

Maybe I'm blinded by love, but see my posts a few pages back comparing him to Abraham Lincoln...

[Moondreamer01]

There is one bit of dialogue who made me think time magic might not be so farfetched an explanation as far as his plan goes. He'll tell a friendly (I think) inquisitor that want to follow him that it would be at the cost of "every friend YOU HAVE EVER KNOWN" (please someone correct me if I'm wrong though). Not friends they knows in the present, but those they have known in their entire life. It struck me as very strange phrasing.

[Wulfram]

IIRC Solas talks of the creation of the veil and the resulting collapse of Elvhanan as being the end of that world, so it probably is fair to say that he's not being strictly literal.

But it seems like he clearly expects either the destruction of all non-Elvhen (including "elves") or something close to that.

[figment_]

There is one bit of dialogue who made me think time magic might not be so farfetched an explanation as far as his plan goes. He'll tell a friendly (I think) inquisitor that want to follow him that it would be at the cost of "every friend YOU HAVE EVER KNOWN" (please someone correct me if I'm wrong though). Not friends they knows in the present, but those they have known in their entire life. It struck me as very strange phrasing.

Time magic in that sense would nullify Thedas completely and wipe out all that we have done in previous Dragon Age games, making it all irrelevant. I don't see that happening.

[Moondreamer01]

Time magic in that sense would nullify Thedas completely and wipe out all that we have done in previous Dragon Age games, making it all irrelevant. I don't see that happening.

Not saying it would ever happen, but it would fit with the "every friend you ever knew" while being painless to the people of Thedas. In any case, I definitely am not seeing this plan ever fonctionning, just Solas thinking that it could

[Sah291]

There is one bit of dialogue who made me think time magic might not be so farfetched an explanation as far as his plan goes. He'll tell a friendly (I think) inquisitor that want to follow him that it would be at the cost of "every friend YOU HAVE EVER KNOWN" (please someone correct me if I'm wrong though). Not friends they knows in the present, but those they have known in their entire life. It struck me as very strange phrasing.

That's a really interesting line, considering his own lack of friends and fear of dying alone. But even that is vague. It might just mean it is a lonely path, you'll be destroyed by guilt, everyone you have ever known will hate you, you'll go down in history as a devil/monster, like he basically has....

[Avejajed]

I'm just not buying the Solas goes back in time theory. And his fear of dying alone just makes no sense to me at all.

[Moondreamer01]

That's a really interesting line, considering his own lack of friends and fear of dying alone. But even that is vague. It might just mean it is a lonely path, you'll be destroyed by guilt, everyone you have ever known will hate you, you'll go down in history as a devil/monster, like he basically has....

 

Could be it. It's a simpler theory than mine for sure

 

I'm just not buying the Solas goes back in time theory. And his fear of dying alone just makes no sense to me at all.

 

Meh, I don't totally buy it either and it's quite farfetched. I think the only reason I haven't simply discarded it out of hand is that it could allow the veil to fall without destroying the world, while we stop him from then traveling back in time and pretty much erasing us from history. On the other hand, if that's his plan, it doesn't make much sense for him to refuse the woman he loves the possibility of traveling back with him (unless he doesn't expect to survive this trip).

[Mims]

Personally, I think the inconsistencies in what Solas says will happen during elfpocalypse speak more that he doesn't actually know what will happen. All he's thinking about is ripping off the bandaid and fixing the mistake. So, it 'might' kill everyone, or maybe not. But either way he expects elves to take over and oust all the shems from their holdings, so their world would be ending one way or another. 

 

I'm just not buying the Solas goes back in time theory. And his fear of dying alone just makes no sense to me at all.

 

I don't like the back in time theory, mostly because I hate time travel. It also negates some of the 'evil' Solas would be undertaking. A lot of people are fine with time travel and don't quite see it the same way as murder. 

 

Fear of dying alone though- I think that makes perfect sense. Solas has always set himself apart from other people as he rebels through various things. Solas might be misguided, but he absolutely knows what he's doing is wrong and will make him a monster. That's why he sends Lavellan away even if she tries to support his plans.

 

Solas is afraid that he'll die alone because...well, that's what he actually expects will happen. He'll die alone like the monster he's become. But to him, the idea of fixing his mistake is worth that fate. 

[Sah291]

IIRC Solas talks of the creation of the veil and the resulting collapse of Elvhanan as being the end of that world, so it probably is fair to say that he's not being strictly literal.But it seems like he clearly expects either the destruction of all non-Elvhen (including "elves") or something close to that.

True, he takes an awful lot of responsibility for things that aren't necessarily in his control. Like if he allows magic in the world, and then people have free will to use it...if he's taking upon himself the guilt and responsibility for every stupid and crazy choice people might make in the future as a result, until the end of the next age....that's a little extreme. No doubt some people will choose to enslave themselves all over again and they would be right back to square one, which is a fatal flaw in his plan.

[Shari'El]

Doesn't Solas already have direct access to the Fade through the Eluvians? I assumed Mythal's ability to connect the Fade to an Eluvian was part of the reason Solas took her power from Flemeth. Maybe he needs to find another orb to begin tearing down the Veil, if so, he will need to unlock it. I wonder why Cory needed the Divine to unlock Fen'Harel's orb? I assume it was just the Divine he needed and all the others who died from the explosion were collateral damage.

 

I thought so too, Kieran also could alter an eluvian to open an entrance to the Fade, that makes me think that what is missing on Solas side is the power to remove the Veil.

While Solas is powerful, he is still lacking in power. It seems to me like he was meaning to use the orb to remove the Veil (judging by how the Inquisitor and Corypheus used it [directly on the sky]), not the anchor itself, since the orb gathered a lot of magical energy throughout the centuries.

I think that even without the anchor, Solas could've ripped the Veil down by finding another way to enter the Fade.

He was lamenting the lose of the magical power stored within the orb, and not the orb itself.

[figment_]

We're not sure that isn't the case. It's funny, I see a lot of people here talking about that decision like it was bad and wrong but we really don't have the information to say that yet. It seemed like the Evanuris were going to destroy the world, and possibly with something that slowly building up change wouldn't help. Solas might regret it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't the only seemingly viable move at the time and was objectively incorrect.

 

In his defense, who else in modern Thedas would have the knowledge and context to give him advice of that nature? Of course they don't want to die. Well, WE will be able to decide and convince him to change course, of course, because the characters we play are the only ones who get the final say. Only we get to play god in this universe, bucko!  

This reminds me of the following dialogue between Solas and Cole:

 

• Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.
• Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.
• Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them.
• Solas: I know.
• Cole: But you could let them go.
• Solas: I know that as well.
• Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it to save them.
• Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about?
• Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything.
• Cole: You weren't wrong, though.
• Solas: Thank you, Cole.

I see this as an acknowledgement, by Compassion, of all things, that he did the right thing, even if he himself still has doubts...

[Eivuwan]

It can't be too easy for Solas to dismantle the veil, because that wouldn't leave much room for a plot

Quizzie: We will do anything to stop/save Solas
*100s of miles away Solas waggles his fingers, sky starts glowing green*
Quizzie: Oh crap
*world ends*

 

Omg, I laughed so hard at the waggle fingers part.

[Cee]

*rolls into blanket fort, cup of tea in hand* Am I doing this right?

 

 

I may have just had a sudden feels wave.

[maia0407]

I'm just not buying the Solas goes back in time theory. And his fear of dying alone just makes no sense to me at all.

Wasn't a limit put on how far back in time that anyone could go? I think it was as far back as when the breach started, correct? So, unless a different type of time travel magic is used, which really opens up the world for any crazy thing to happen, I don't think Solas can go far enough back to accomplish his goals.

[Avejajed]

This reminds me of the following dialogue between Solas and Cole:

 

• Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.
• Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.
• Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them.
• Solas: I know.
• Cole: But you could let them go.
• Solas: I know that as well.
• Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it to save them.
• Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about?
• Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything.
• Cole: You weren't wrong, though.
• Solas: Thank you, Cole.

I see this as an acknowledgement, by Compassion, of all things, that he did the right thing, even if he himself still has doubts...

 

I've been spending a LOT of time listening to banters, which basically all make me feel different after Trespasser-  but this one makes way more sense to me now- I always thought "they" meant the Evanuris. I never considered he meant the elves in general from his time. 

[Mims]

Wasn't a limit put on how far back in time that anyone could go? I think it was as far back as when the breach started, correct? So, unless a different type of time travel magic is used, which really opens up the world for any crazy thing to happen, I don't think Solas can go far enough back to accomplish his goals.

 

I agree. But some people have argued that if the original veil creation counts as a 'breach', it might be possible to time warp back to it by causing another.

 

But, I don't personally think that this is what Solas plans to do. If you talk to him about Redcliffe he doesn't entirely seem to even believe its possible. And if that is the first time he's heard about time magic, how do you factor that into a playthrough where the Inquisitor never goes to Redcliffe?

 

That said, as I mentioned I'm bias against time travel. I think it can be a great plot point in some instances. But it is so easy for time travel to absolutely mess up a series too. It can be used as an easy get out of jail free card for almost anything, or create confusing plot holes if time travel rules aren't clearly set into place. The only good that I could see it bringing is the chance to see Arlathan as it originally was. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

I see this as an acknowledgement, by Compassion, of all things, that he did the right thing, even if he himself still has doubts...

 

So...I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Cole's statements about people are always reliable.  It's a bit like the codexes, where his information is limited and can be misconstrued.

 

Cole can only sense thoughts, memories, and emotions that relate to his role as Compassion.  He's not a Pensieve.  So while I think he's a very good barometer for characters' motivations, he's not as good for determining the objective truth of what happened, or what's right.  He likes Solas and bonds with him because flawed as he is, Solas is motivated by a desire to help.  

 

But Cole also says things to people to help them feel better, to repair the hurt inside of them.  Offering comfort, not truth, is his primary motivation for saying those things.  I don't think he's lying, but I think his words should always be taken with a grain of salt. 

[Arlee]

Sooo, Solas mentions the Evanuris were originally Generals from some huge war a long time ago. Do we know anything about that? Any idea who they were fighting?

[maia0407]

I agree. But some people have argued that if the original veil creation counts as a 'breach', it might be possible to time warp back to it by causing another.

 

But, I don't personally think that this is what Solas plans to do. If you talk to him about Redcliffe he doesn't entirely seem to even believe its possible. And if that is the first time he's heard about time magic, how do you factor that into a playthrough where the Inquisitor never goes to Redcliffe?

 

That said, as I mentioned I'm bias against time travel. I think it can be a great plot point in some instances. But it is so easy for time travel to absolutely mess up a series too. It can be used as an easy get out of jail free card for almost anything, or create confusing plot holes if time travel rules aren't clearly set into place. The only good that I could see it bringing is the chance to see Arlathan as it originally was. 

The 'get out of jail free' aspect is what really bothers my with time travel. I was really glad when BW seemed to put a hard limit on how far back anyone could go. I hope people are wrong about the original veil creation actually being the limiting factor as the world could get too screwy. 

[figment_]

I've been spending a LOT of time listening to banters, which basically all make me feel different after Trespasser-  but this one makes way more sense to me now- I always thought "they" meant the Evanuris. I never considered he meant the elves in general from his time. 

I think that Cole's line "But you could let them go." could still apply to both the Evanuris and the Elvhen, but the rest applies to his construction of the veil...

[BoscoBread]

Sooo, Solas mentions the Evanuris were originally Generals from some huge war a long time ago. Do we know anything about that? Any idea who they were fighting?

I think the assumption has been made it was the Titans - from that mural.  But it obviously could be anything else. 

 

So...I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Cole's statements about people are always reliable.  It's a bit like the codexes, where his information is limited and can be misconstrued.

 

Cole can only sense thoughts, memories, and emotions that relate to his role as Compassion.  He's not a Pensieve.  So while I think he's a very good barometer for characters' motivations, he's not as good for determining the objective truth of what happened, or what's right.  He likes Solas and bonds with him because flawed as he is, Solas is motivated by a desire to help.  

 

But Cole also says things to people to help them feel better, to repair the hurt inside of them.  Offering comfort, not truth, is his primary motivation for saying those things.  I don't think he's lying, but I think his words should always be taken with a grain of salt. 

I agree.  I think there is truth there but I think he's limited to his...uh...spirit "programming" so he sees what he's only supposed to see.