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[Solas]

I just realized something when talking with a friend in a private discussion. If we're gonna make comparisons of Solas to other things, we gotta talk about Solas, the dread wolf and Fenris, or Fenrir the Wolf responsible for Ragnarok in Norse mythology.

 

Especially since Solas wants to end the world, AND he takes our arm, though of course by different circumstances. Fenris does this in a much different way to Tyr...

 

I made a similar comparison between Fenrir and Solas and Tyr and the Inquisitor here  wrote the wolf biting off the hand at the wolf-joint image into a fic like 6 months ago.

[BoscoBread]

I've been thinking about this whole bring down the Veil, end modern Thedas thing. And... while I still believe it's horrifying based on the amount of innocent deaths that could result, the path the world is on does not look to be going to a good place anyway. You have dwarves dying out, elves being oppressed and dying out, the Qun looming overhead, the blights, darkspawn, mages and demons and possession and that's just the things we know are a threat. And while things were bad for the elves pre-Veil because of the Evanuris, and no world will be a Utopia... I dunno. I'm not going to help Solas murder millions, but if we're given the option to bring about change I'll probably go for it and hope for the best. Otherwise you'll see the elves and dwarves both extinct, the qunari will wage a bloody and terrible war over the humans that remain, and then probably everyone will curl up and die when the last archdemons are dead and darkspawn fill the world. Maybe all of that wouldn't come to pass, but you can't look at how things are and pretend it's not at least possible.

 

There has to be another way than "murder everyone and start over," but from where I'm looking at it, change has to happen one way or another.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think most people can agree that Thedas as it stands is broken in a lot of ways. Things definitely aren't working as they are supposed to be. My guess is that this is why Flemeth [and to an extent, Morrigan], are anxiously awaiting some great 'change'. The veil needs to be down in order for the world to start healing itself. So at least part of Solas's plan isn't unreasonable. 

 

It just might cause a lot of calamity in the process as various powers vie for control. 

 

Is it any wonder that my Lavellan is 100% over gods?     

[Eivuwan]

That's what we get for trying to give everyone a hand. But it's all right, there's so much left to do even now!

 

(the bad puns... someone stop me now...)

 

That reminds me of people digging through game files before Trespasser came out. There was something about taking Solas' hand and people were so hopeful that it meant that they are going to go hand in hand into the Eluvian or something lol. Now we know what he was planning to do with that hand. >_<

[flabbadence]

Likely, yes. Will seems to shape Thedas to great extent, so it's only natural that biases and presuppositions do to. In fact, it's implied that the Veil itself is more akin to a grand mass illusion rather than physical barrier, so....

Oh no.

T_T, the future looks so bloody right now.

*crying*

[figment_]

To quote Leliana, "pure speculation." Like all the other speculation we've been doing here   I certainly don't want Thedas to be f***ed, but IMO this outcome is unlikely.  The Fade and the mortal world have been separated for thousands of years, developed separately, and the Veil is not a reset button.

Think of it like taking a heavily domesticated species (say, dogs) and reintroducing it to the wild. Yes, they are still the closest relatives of wolves.  Yes, they can still interbreed and share a common past.  But they've been separated from that environment and behavior for thousands of years. The world of dogs and the world of wolves have evolved over that time. Simply reintroducing one to the other would be disastrous, and certainly wouldn't revert it to the way it was before.

Not simply, of course, and not without consequences...But it eventually would revert to "the natural order of things" since the veil was a construct. I'm not saying that it's ideal, or that it's going to be pretty...far from it, there are so many implications it can boggle the mind.

 

I fully believe that the veil will be removed, and with it, Sandal's prophecy will be fulfilled, for better or for worse...

[Mims]

Is it any wonder that my Lavellan is 100% over gods?     

 

I think by the end of it, we'll be 100% over everyone!

 

I have no idea why Solas thinks that ancient elves will automatically have the advantage when the veil drops. He underestimated Corypheus. If the veil is down and there's not some sort of: "execute all shems" option built into the programming, won't every mage in Thedas see a dramatic increase in their power? So like...Tevinter is going to become even stronger than they already are. 

 

When Solas was top dog, humans were living in little huts and not understanding how magic works. And they might still not completely understand how magic works, but... Solas seems to think he's heading towards some sort of cakewalk. 

[Giton]

Is it any wonder that my Lavellan is 100% over gods?     

I just can't quit the Din.

 

Or JUNE!

 

JUNE WITNESS ME!

[flabbadence]

That reminds me of people digging through game files before Trespasser came out. There was something about taking Solas' hand and people were so hopeful that it meant that they are going to go hand in hand into the Eluvian or something lol. Now we know what he was planning to do with that hand. >_<

Oh my god. That happened? Those poor people, coming into the dlc with so much hope. R.i.p.

[Uirebhiril]

Spoiler

 

We'll burn in the flames of our regrets!

 

Where we are lucky is that we can just reload the save and take the other option. I bet Solas wishes he could do that.

[AutumnOracle]

I am largely fine with him being ruthless, he is a complex character after all, and we love that. Unfortunately the problem I'm seeing now is that a large portion of BSN/Reddit seems to see him as the Big Bad, with all the evil stereotypes you can think of, I think he's been called a murderer, a psychopath, genocidal supremacist, etc.

 

Will Bioware let him be reduced to just that, since the majority of the DA players already seem to see him that way? In Trespasser, a low approval Inquisitor no longer sees his conflicted side, because presumably he is not conflicted. So... what will this mean for his character in DA4?

 

 

 

I think his intentions are primarily good, too, although unfortunately I don't know if I can say they are 100% good. He does not wish harm to the other races per se, but the fact that he can disregard such an enormous amount of destruction makes me think it is a very grey area here.

 

 

 

Did he really shapeshift into a wolf in her dream? Somehow I thought that was just metaphorical. I think I must be one of the few who doesn't actually like the thought of his wolf form, but then I've never really been a fan of shapeshifting, even when Morrigan does it.

 

He didn't physically shapeshift in the dreams.  He just appeared as a wolf.  I didn't think it was metaphorical as much as him 'hiding' in a form he felt more comfortable in.  I'm actualyl cool with the idea of them being able to define their forms.  Though that does kind of bleed into the formless one.  I don't remember the codex but I was pretty sure he's a 'forgotten one' right?

[drosophila]

*dramatically returns from the very verge of the abyss...*

 

...Goddamnit, this thread grows as if it was fed a steady stream of mutated donuts!! So many interesting points made, so many comments I want to respond or like, but alas...!

 

I also have to admit that I'm starting to REALLY itch to draw or write something on my own... but I have so many half-baked ideas I don't know what to put my hands in (as per usual!)

 

OMG, yes, you MUST! Start drawing/writing now or I'll have to use blood magic to bind you! Errr, I mean... Please?

 

I've been thinking about this whole bring down the Veil, end modern Thedas thing. And... while I still believe it's horrifying based on the amount of innocent deaths that could result, the path the world is on does not look to be going to a good place anyway. You have dwarves dying out, elves being oppressed and dying out, the Qun looming overhead, the blights, darkspawn, mages and demons and possession and that's just the things we know are a threat. And while things were bad for the elves pre-Veil because of the Evanuris, and no world will be a Utopia... I dunno. I'm not going to help Solas murder millions, but if we're given the option to bring about change I'll probably go for it and hope for the best. Otherwise you'll see the elves and dwarves both extinct, the qunari will wage a bloody and terrible war over the humans that remain, and then probably everyone will curl up and die when the last archdemons are dead and darkspawn fill the world. Maybe all of that wouldn't come to pass, but you can't look at how things are and pretend it's not at least possible.

 

There has to be another way than "murder everyone and start over," but from where I'm looking at it, change has to happen one way or another.

 

Thedas is pretty horrible as it is, but I demand several people-centuries of research that fail to come up with an alternative solution before I go for mass extinction of all races.

[flabbadence]

I think by the end of it, we'll be 100% over everyone!
 
I have no idea why Solas thinks that ancient elves will automatically have the advantage when the veil drops. He underestimated Corypheus. If the veil is down and there's not some sort of: "execute all shems" option built into the programming, won't every mage in Thedas see a dramatic increase in their power? So like...Tevinter is going to become even stronger than they already are. 
 
When Solas was top dog, humans were living in little huts and not understanding how magic works. And they might still not completely understand how magic works, but... Solas seems to think he's heading towards some sort of cakewalk.

Thing is though, in the same way humans have a harder time walking the Crossroads, I think they'll feel weaker without the Veil too. I'm less sure what's going to happen to the other races though.

[BoscoBread]

OMG, yes, you MUST! Start drawing/writing now or I'll have to use blood magic to bind you! Errr, I mean... Please?

 

 

Thedas is pretty horrible as it is, but I demand several people-centuries of research that fail to come up with an alternative solution before I go for mass extinction of all races.

Where is the FDA of Thedas when you need it!!

[AllThatJazz]

I think by the end of it, we'll be 100% over everyone!

 

I have no idea why Solas thinks that ancient elves will automatically have the advantage when the veil drops. He underestimated Corypheus. If the veil is down and there's not some sort of: "execute all shems" option built into the programming, won't every mage in Thedas see a dramatic increase in their power? So like...Tevinter is going to become even stronger than they already are. 

 

When Solas was top dog, humans were living in little huts and not understanding how magic works. And they might still not completely understand how magic works, but... Solas seems to think he's heading towards some sort of cakewalk. 

My guess? There are a lot more elves in uthenera than we know of, and a good number of them will be among the stronger of elvhen society - they'll also be the ones with the most natural affinity with spirits and the (newly re-merged) Fade. Then there's the Evanuris. While they may have been despots who used their own people as arrow fodder, I bet they'll take an even dimmer view of the Shemlen who've usurped their Empire. 

 

Edit: That said, I do agree. Solas has a habit of underestimating people. The 'newer' races won't be going down without a fight.

[Mims]

Thing is though, in the same way humans have a harder time walking the Crossroads, I think they'll feel weaker without the Veil too. I'm less sure what's going to happen to the other races though.

 

Possibly! But I don't believe so. Areas like the crossroads aren't the fade, they were magically created for elves to traverse through. So I think the discomfort is more of a security measure than it is an indication of what the world could be like without the veil.

[midnight tea]

I think most people can agree that Thedas as it stands is broken in a lot of ways. Things definitely aren't working as they are supposed to be. My guess is that this is why Flemeth [and to an extent, Morrigan], are anxiously awaiting some great 'change'. The veil needs to be down in order for the world to start healing itself. So at least part of Solas's plan isn't unreasonable. 

 

It just might cause a lot of calamity in the process as various powers vie for control. 

 

Yup, I think the same thing.

 

In fact, the title of Herald itself has been implied by Flemeth (and Kieran) to mean so much more than what most Thedosians think it means.

 

"A Herald indeed. Shouting to the heavens, harbinger of a New Age."

 

So... Viddasala may not indeed be wrong when she said that it was actually Inquisitor who began pushing the world into change. Even if the chain of events that led to Quizzy's rising began somewhere else - years ago, before Corypheus or Felassan... who knows, maybe even before the Veil was created.

 

It's a controversial statement, I know, but I'm starting to think that the world needed change even before the Veil and that it's been indeed long time coming. The world of elves wasn't perfect and Mythal and Fen'Harel seemed to be involved in making a difference - that much is rather strongly implied. The Evnauris made their move against them, Mythal died and it forced the Dread Wolf to act.. but perhaps from world's (or Fate's, or.. Maker's?) perspective the creation of the Veil itself might have been an important step in a route for a necessary re-balance, by letting new forms of life with different perspective grow and make their mark, because back at pre-Veil times such new ways of thinking, or perhaps the strength of spirit or resolve necessary for "the Final Push" was unobtainable.

 

I bet not all may be comfortable with the idea that everything that happened till now was a matter of Fate, but again - I just don't see it that way. For me it's equal parts fate, equal parts choice, which is exactly why we can play Quizzies who will get their chance to redeem Solas or those who will fail to impress him (and anyone else as well) and likely may squander their chance to make a real difference.

[drosophila]

Where is the FDA of Thedas when you need it!!

 

Maybe all those elves that Solas is gathering are clinical trial volunteers

[Uirebhiril]

Thedas is pretty horrible as it is, but I demand several people-centuries of research that fail to come up with an alternative solution before I go for mass extinction of all races.

 

Yes. I do wonder if things are on some sort of time crunch that we aren't aware of yet. On one hand, it would make sense that the world is teetering on the brink of "oh s*it" and needs sudden and swift action. On another, if it's Solas being impatient and frantic for his own reasons I want him to own up to being the antagonist all on his own, without some half-bit excuse to "explain" his rationalization.

[Moondreamer01]

Oh my god. That happened? Those poor people, coming into the dlc with so much hope. R.i.p.

Yes, he definitely did "rip" our arm off

 

Ok, I'll let myself out now.

[RynJ]

Yeah Cole is very meta. A lot like Varric with the little hints and teases that sound like commentary from the writers. I mean, Cole revealing movie spoilers was a running gag...I have no idea how literal to take anything he says.

 

Cole sounding meta is exactly what makes me trust "his" opinion, honestly.

[drosophila]

Yes. I do wonder if things are on some sort of time crunch that we aren't aware of yet. On one hand, it would make sense that the world is teetering on the brink of "oh s*it" and needs sudden and swift action. On another, if it's Solas being impatient and frantic for his own reasons I want him to own up to being the antagonist all on his own, without some half-bit excuse to "explain" his rationalization.

 

I leave open the possibility there's a time crunch that's driving him desperate.

[figment_]

I think by the end of it, we'll be 100% over everyone!

 

I have no idea why Solas thinks that ancient elves will automatically have the advantage when the veil drops. He underestimated Corypheus. If the veil is down and there's not some sort of: "execute all shems" option built into the programming, won't every mage in Thedas see a dramatic increase in their power? So like...Tevinter is going to become even stronger than they already are. 

 

When Solas was top dog, humans were living in little huts and not understanding how magic works. And they might still not completely understand how magic works, but... Solas seems to think he's heading towards some sort of cakewalk. 

But just think about it, all of the Elves in Tevinter (including the slaves), suddenly becoming mages when the Magic comes back. With the Elves having a closer connection to the fade, they'd easily overpower their human captor's bonds and magic, leading to successful open rebellion and a collapse of the slave trade! If everyone has magic, the implications could be much, much greater...and way cooler, IMO!!!

[midnight tea]

OMG, yes, you MUST! Start drawing/writing now or I'll have to use blood magic to bind you! Errr, I mean... Please? 

 

Oh I'll think of something... Right now I'm torn between doing more tiny, silly or smaller things and something that would require more time.

[flabbadence]

Yes, he definitely did "rip" our arm off
 
Ok, I'll let myself out now.

Nah stay, you're allright