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[Oswin]

Oh yeah! That codex where they were fighting, and it was brushed off as a 'ho hum debate'...

(from codex)
"........The well-dressed elves' shouting grows so loud, it can be heard over the magic. One leaps at another, howling and pulling out a knife burning with prismatic flame.
 

"Architects of the Grand Sonallium (a gift from Blessed Sylaise to Clever June as thanks for a great favor) in friendly debate over the color of the palace's roof trim."


Was anyone else's interest piqued in thinking that the Pantheon are like... really intelligent, but also kind of feral? I mean. I'm not saying anything really important or anything, just that... uh. Well. If there is any truth to the story, and they bow to base urges like that... I suppose I can see why Andruil tried to punish Solas in that... special way. With the tree. Yeah.

 

 

They all sound completely off their rockers.

 

I still think this is why Solas thinks everyone living under the Veil is like a tranquil. If that is what you call a friendly debate in his world then they all have way too much emotion going on. 

 

 

The plan Solas has to deal with them better be a bloody good plan. Dude couldn't deal with just the one immortal pain in the backside. How is he going to deal with the whole freaking Pantheon? Some of them are quite obviously dangerous, but then there are the ones who seem not too bad at this point... Them ones. Thems the ones to watch out for. The quiet ones. June, I bet June is the most sick and twisted one of the bunch 

[BoscoBread]

It's very Arthur Machen.  Which is brilliant and horrible.  

 

 

 

The rest of his committee is Elgar'nan, June, and Ghilan'nain.  Elgar'nan is the cranky old professor who hates everyone younger than him.  June appreciates Solas's ambition with the project, but thinks he lacks sparkle.  And Ghilan'nain doesn't turn up for committee meetings; no one much minds, because they always hear weird sounds from her lab.

As jokey jokey we were about the glitter pantheon - Giton - seems to have been spot on about it.  They really are monsters but in a very human way. Tevinter is not far behind.  The only stopping them is that they are gimped in power.  That's the horror, if given enough freedom does man have no option but to be this?  Is this is what our world will become if we let it?   And I think once we get the WHOLE picture, it may truly be tragic.  Some of them may have been brilliant and wonderful mages.  That's the question with Solas' plan, were the evanuris just an ineveitability?  If not them, would it have been something else?  Is his plan even worth it? Shouldn't he just stop and be crushed by the bleakness of his own  existence? 

 

http://vhenantrash.t...er-pantheon-why

[Cee]

Maybe all those elves that Solas is gathering are clinical trial volunteers

 

Why did my mind go to ME3 and Sanctuary?

 

[drosophila]

The rest of his committee is Elgar'nan, June, and Ghilan'nain.  Elgar'nan is the cranky old professor who hates everyone younger than him.  June appreciates Solas's ambition with the project, but thinks he lacks sparkle.  And Ghilan'nain doesn't turn up for committee meetings; no one much minds, because they always hear weird sounds from her lab.

 

Then Falon'Din killed Mythal because of a vendetta over shared lab equipment. Ghilan'nain decided she would use the opportunity to steal Solas' research and publish it herself. Solas was pressed against the wall... every alternative was worse...

[Moondreamer01]

As jokey jokey we were about the glitter pantheon - Giton - seems to have been spot on about it.  They really are monsters but in a very human way. Tevinter is not far behind.  The only stopping them is that they are gimped in power.  That's the horror, if given enough freedom does man have no option but to be this?  Is this is what our world will become if we let it?   And I think once we get the WHOLE picture, it may truly be tragic.  Some of them may have been brilliant and wonderful mages.  That's the question with Solas' plan, were the evanuris just an ineveitability?  If not them, would it have been something else?  Is his plan even worth it? Shouldn't he just stop and be crushed by the bleakness of his own  existence? 

 

http://vhenantrash.t...er-pantheon-why

Out of like, but so much this! Yes! a ton of         to you

[drosophila]

As jokey jokey we were about the glitter pantheon - Giton - seems to have been spot on about it.  They really are monsters but in a very human way. Tevinter is not far behind.  The only stopping them is that they are gimped in power.  That's the horror, if given enough freedom does man have no option but to be this?  Is this is what our world will become if we let it?   And I think once we get the WHOLE picture, it may truly be tragic.  Some of them may have been brilliant and wonderful mages.  That's the question with Solas' plan, were the evanuris just an ineveitability?  If not them, would it have been something else?  Is his plan even worth it? Shouldn't he just stop and be crushed by the bleakness of his own  existence? 

 

http://vhenantrash.t...er-pantheon-why

 

I have no likes, so have some and glitter

[midnight tea]

As jokey jokey we were about the glitter pantheon - Giton - seems to have been spot on about it.  They really are monsters but in a very human way. Tevinter is not far behind.  The only stopping them is that they are gimped in power.  That's the horror, if given enough freedom does man have no option but to be this?  Is this is what our world will become if we let it?   And I think once we get the WHOLE picture, it may truly be tragic.  Some of them may have been brilliant and wonderful mages.  That's the question with Solas' plan, were the evanuris just an ineveitability?  If not them, would it have been something else?  Is his plan even worth it? Shouldn't he just stop and be crushed by the bleakness of his own  existence? 

 

http://vhenantrash.t...er-pantheon-why

 

This is vaguely why I think his plan isn't as simple as restoring Elvhen civilization as it was, nor why I think the world has been screaming for some sort of re-balance long before the Veil has shrouded the waking world.

[roselavellan]

Well, there's already enough of an implication that Solas walks the path that will turn him into something he himself fears and loathes - it will still be the outcome of things that are beyond his control (no matter how terribly guilty he feels about them) and fail!Quizzies will likely squander the chance of him finding a sense of balance or at least make it doubly difficult to make him start believing that he's not as terrible failure he is. Either way, it's a fair game for me.

 

Just like with Cullen or Blackwall or Iron Bull and any other companions who tumble into darkness unless Quizzy sees more than a tip of their nose, so will Solas tumble unless people decide to help him.

 

The thing is, if they do that, which will become the canon Solas? Solas the evil destroyer of modern Thedas? Or Solas the brave rebel god who fought for his people? And if they cop out by leaving him as an epilogue slide, that would possibly be the worse thing they could do to him.

[Solas]

might be like anders where you can friend or rival him but he does the thing regardless but just felt differently about it

[Sable Rhapsody]

The thing is, if they do that, which will become the canon Solas? Solas the evil destroyer of modern Thedas? Or Solas the brave rebel god who fought for his people? And if they cop out by leaving him as an epilogue slide, that would possibly be the worse thing they could do to him.

 

Doesn't really matter if his story gets wrapped up, does it?  Kind of like it doesn't matter whether Alistair is canonically King, or a Warden, or dead, or a useless drunk. 

[midnight tea]

The thing is, if they do that, which will become the canon Solas? Solas the evil destroyer of modern Thedas? Or Solas the brave rebel god who fought for his people? And if they cop out by leaving him as an epilogue slide, that would possibly be the worse thing they could do to him.

 

Well.. so far, as I see it, Solas IS the potential "evil destroyer" in eyes of many, if not most. And both Trespasser and the tile for a choice in DA Keep clearly tells us that we have a chance to redeem him, and therefore - I think - either give him a chance to restore his good name or help him work to earn one back.

 

So yes - I think that as long people make bad choices or don't bother to look beyond the surface (even if his motives or personality stays nuanced in a world-state where we doom him), Solas will remain a villain, even if only "evil" in very large quotation marks. 

 

Heck, I fully expect that newcomers will more often choose to destroy him rather than save him (if we'd have an option to reinforce or change that choice in DA4), because they didn't get to know him well-enough through DAI. I will be forever impressed with Bioware if they went with that route, because it will be a great point about the shifting of one's perspective.

 

It will also make his redemption way more meaningful, IMO. It will likely be difficult, and it will require a lot more insight as well as willfulness from players to look beyond the mask of a Dread Wolf to keep seeing Solas, even if things and people around us tell us it's time to give up on him. We won't, hence we may be rewarded with something of a better option for a future, as well as a character whose life was saved on more levels than one.

[k_drake]

Oh yeah! That codex where they were fighting, and it was brushed off as a 'ho hum debate'...

(from codex)
"........The well-dressed elves' shouting grows so loud, it can be heard over the magic. One leaps at another, howling and pulling out a knife burning with prismatic flame.
 

"Architects of the Grand Sonallium (a gift from Blessed Sylaise to Clever June as thanks for a great favor) in friendly debate over the color of the palace's roof trim."


Was anyone else's interest piqued in thinking that the Pantheon are like... really intelligent, but also kind of feral? I mean. I'm not saying anything really important or anything, just that... uh. Well. If there is any truth to the story, and they bow to base urges like that... I suppose I can see why Andruil tried to punish Solas in that... special way. With the tree. Yeah.
 

I think having such a surfeit of power will do that to you.  When you think you deserve everything, the smallest restraint becomes too much.  I mean, look at the stories in Greek mythology (which clearly provide inspiration for the Elvhen Pantheon).  One time one of Artermis' attendants /teased/ her a little bit, so she arranged to have Dionysus basically roofie/rape her.  Or when the gods made ALL of Tantalus' descendants horribily suffer for no other reason than they were related to Tantalus. 

[MayriyaNoori]

As jokey jokey we were about the glitter pantheon - Giton - seems to have been spot on about it.  They really are monsters but in a very human way. Tevinter is not far behind.  The only stopping them is that they are gimped in power.  That's the horror, if given enough freedom does man have no option but to be this?  Is this is what our world will become if we let it?   And I think once we get the WHOLE picture, it may truly be tragic.  Some of them may have been brilliant and wonderful mages.  That's the question with Solas' plan, were the evanuris just an ineveitability?  If not them, would it have been something else?  Is his plan even worth it? Shouldn't he just stop and be crushed by the bleakness of his own  existence? 

 

http://vhenantrash.t...er-pantheon-why

I want the whole picture so badly....

 

.....at the same time I am scared to get it because it probably means falling in love with a group of characters that are beyond cracked out insane.

 

And the interesting thing is that I kind of feel like Solas is hitting the point that he criticizes the Evanuris so heavily for. I mean, he says that what they wanted to do would destroy the world......but look at what he's doing right now and how justified he feels doing it. As I'm sure the Evanuris did with whatever they were doing.

 

Not to mention he clearly has followers. Followers that he cares about and would do anything for him.Sounds a bit like followers we see and hear about with the Evanuris(just think about Mythal and Dirthamen temples).

 

Solas is actually acting very much like them whether he wants to admit it or not( *cough* Pride *cough*).

 

*sigh* I really want to meet this group. If nothing else, I bet they would know better than anyone on how to stop Solas. And they would have the want to I imagine.

 

I mean, they are probably like hella done with the Fade. May not even want to be mages anymore for all we know. The physical world would be paradise to them I bet.

[k_drake]

If not them, would it have been something else?  Is his plan even worth it? Shouldn't he just stop and be crushed by the bleakness of his own  existence?

See: real life. 

[AutumnOracle]

I also hope they don't basically create two versions of him later on depending on approval so those who want to see him as pure evil are validated while those who don't are too. Seems lazy to me, and a disservice to the character. Grey is grey is grey. He should never come off as anything but.

 

If it's already been said I apologize.  I still think this is where Cole comes in.  At least as a spirit he will slip off the help 'him' remember himself when the hurt is too much.  I'm assuming him means Solas. 

[k_drake]

It will also make his redemption way more meaningful, IMO. It will likely be difficult, and it will require a lot more insight as well as willfulness from players to look beyond the mask of a Dread Wolf to keep seeing Solas, even if things and people around us tell us it's time to give up on him. We won't, hence we may be rewarded with something of a better option for a future, as well as a character whose life was saved on more levels than one.

 

Well, my Lavellan is all in.  What would be interesting is that if Solas can only be saved by sacrificing many more lives/resources than just killng him would require, because at what point does it become no longer worth it? 

[MayriyaNoori]

Okay, not Solas, but I thought this was cute.

 

Well, there is a Solas quote in here.

 

Anywho

 

Spoiler

 

Source

 

the signs as dragon age quotes

 

Aries: (After hearing terrible pickup lines) “Can I kill him yet? He’s hurting me.”

Taurus: “I see what must be done, and I do it! I see no point in running around in circles like a dog chasing its tail.”

Gemini: “Loyalty is an interesting concept. If you wish and if you are done interrogating me, we can discuss it further.”

Cancer: “Could we, perhaps, do battle with a pack of pretty flowers or soft bunnies next time? I’d do much better.”

Leo: (in response to ‘you’re not as handsome as you think’) “I must be, or you wouldn’t have been thinking about it all this time.”

Virgo: “My people had a saying long ago - “The healer has the bloodiest hands.“”

Libra: “Freedom was interesting while it lasted.”

Scorpio: “I have faith in my friends well enough. Faith that they will one day stab me in the back.” 

Sagittarius: “I shall endeavor to exist with less offense.”

Capricorn: “Just once, we should enter a cave and see normal-sized spiders.”

Aquarius: “Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speed could kill.”

Pisces: “Demons can’t hear you. It hurts too much. Nothing here makes sense to them.”

 

And.....

 

Have some Solas!

 

Source

 

[BoscoBread]

See: real life. 

Yeah, that last part got away from me.  

[figment_]

What if Solas is "The Last Great Hope" for Thedas??? What if he's the only one capable of stopping the downward spiral that the world is in...? So many seem so quick to want to kill/destroy the only Hope (Savior?) they may have...

[midnight tea]

Well, my Lavellan is all in.  What would be interesting is that if Solas can only be saved by sacrificing many more lives/resources than just killng him would require, because at what point does it become no longer worth it? 

 

I don't think Bioware writers would be that cruel. Plus - wouldn't sacrificing many more lives to save just one person would kinda make it pointless to give us an option to redeem him? I think Solas would be past moral event horizon if saving him was a path that led to even more destruction.

 

I mean, I expect that we may be forced to wrangle with some difficult choices, ones that may even bend our principles, but not necessarily ones that will break them.

[Cee]

Okay, not Solas, but I thought this was cute.

 

Well, there is a Solas quote in here.

 

Anywho

 

Spoiler

 

Source

 

the signs as dragon age quotes

 

Aries: (After hearing terrible pickup lines) “Can I kill him yet? He’s hurting me.”

Taurus: “I see what must be done, and I do it! I see no point in running around in circles like a dog chasing its tail.”

Gemini: “Loyalty is an interesting concept. If you wish and if you are done interrogating me, we can discuss it further.”

Cancer: “Could we, perhaps, do battle with a pack of pretty flowers or soft bunnies next time? I’d do much better.”

Leo: (in response to ‘you’re not as handsome as you think’) “I must be, or you wouldn’t have been thinking about it all this time.”

Virgo: “My people had a saying long ago - “The healer has the bloodiest hands.“”

Libra: “Freedom was interesting while it lasted.”

Scorpio: “I have faith in my friends well enough. Faith that they will one day stab me in the back.” 

Sagittarius: “I shall endeavor to exist with less offense.”

Capricorn: “Just once, we should enter a cave and see normal-sized spiders.”

Aquarius: “Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speed could kill.”

Pisces: “Demons can’t hear you. It hurts too much. Nothing here makes sense to them.”

 

 

I'd like to trade mine in.

[midnight tea]

What if Solas is "The Last Great Hope" for Thedas??? What if he's the only one capable of stopping the downward spiral that the world is in...? So many seem so quick to want to kill/destroy the only Hope (Savior?) they may have...

 

Honestly...? I would laugh so hard if it was the case and players that killed him with cold blood were forced to face the consequences of their choices once the Apocalypse they could do nothing about knocks to their doors 

In fact... I think this will indeed happen (BW didn't shy away from Iron Bull betraying Inquisition, no matter if Inquisitor is in relationship with him!), even if we don't know yet how and to what extent.

[BoscoBread]

What if Solas is "The Last Great Hope" for Thedas??? What if he's the only one capable of stopping the downward spiral that the world is in...? So many seem so quick to want to kill/destroy the only Hope (Savior?) they may have...

The thing is, I don't think it's black and white. 

 

We see multiple times through different people that 'Greater Good" doesn't mean the same thing to different people. Solas' greater good may not be what a lot of other people want.  Solas is falliable. That's sort of the point. He MAY be important to stopping certain other things, but that comes with a high price. The question is, what is the cost and what is he stopping?  

 

We know so little at this point save 'Your friends and most of Thedas will die through my actions' that it sounds terrible.  I'm kind of like, "Imma help but going to keep the knife close by".  

[Moondreamer01]

What if Solas is "The Last Great Hope" for Thedas??? What if he's the only one capable of stopping the downward spiral that the world is in...? So many seem so quick to want to kill/destroy the only Hope (Savior?) they may have...

As he is right now, I don't think. He's much too morally grey as character for this. Could he become so in the right circumstances and with the right kind of push from a friendly Inquisitor? Yes, I do think so. But, he'll never be completely white and I don't want him to be. He's much more interesting with all his flaws.

 

Edit : @Kissiebear said it much more eloquently than I did!

[Cee]

It's definitely important to keep in mind just how little we currently know. We've been getting the pieces filled in bit by bit but there's still a ton of gaping holes in what we know --or what we think we know, anyway.

 

I'm expecting things aren't done being turned on their heads.