153429 réponses à ce sujet

[RynJ]

Man, caranis/solas-an works fast:

 

Solas in Mythal vallaslin:

 

Spoiler

http://solas-an.tumb...is-is-a-request

 

Yep, still hot.

 

Ooooh my. Sorry Abelas, Solas kiiiiinda wears it better. I wouldn't have thought!

[Brass_Buckles]

So the only really acceptable romance option for FLavellan is Zevran, too bad he's not in the game.
 

 

Well... not really him either.  He's half Dalish by birth, but he's not actually Dalish culturally.  His dad was a city elf (a woodcutter if I remember correctly), and he was raised in the city.  It seems like he wasn't taught much about Dalish ways, either, or at least I never got the impression that he was.  He has no vallaslin, so it would be difficult for him to lay claim to being Dalish or following Dalish ways (mind you, perhaps his tattoo is somehow meant to be vallaslin, and I am wrong--more likely it's a mark of ownership by the Crows, who effectively bought him and enslaved him).

 

Basically the only semi-acceptable romance throughout Dragon Age for a Dalish elf would be Merrill.  And she's out because of blood magic and consorting with demons.  Maybe Velanna, but she wasn't actually a romance option.

[Brass_Buckles]

Yeah, in the last fic I wrote, I explored a bit of their fears as teens who recognize they're in love, and how this clashes with expectations and including the fear of being kicked out. I basically made myself cry writing it.

 

It's harder for me to identify with as a straight person, but it still seems really sad that people can't just be allowed to be in love with who they're in love with.

 

And then... it doesn't just hurt that couple, either.  Say that you had a lesbian best friend in the clan, and she finally just has enough of being told she needs to have a little pointy eared baby.  Maybe she leaves, never to be heard from again.  Or maybe she does worse, commits suicide or something.  Her friends and family are left behind to grieve, or to wonder if she's all right but never actually know one way or the other.

[The Lone Shadow]

Well... not really him either.  He's half Dalish by birth, but he's not actually Dalish culturally.  His dad was a city elf (a woodcutter if I remember correctly), and he was raised in the city.  It seems like he wasn't taught much about Dalish ways, either, or at least I never got the impression that he was.  He has no vallaslin, so it would be difficult for him to lay claim to being Dalish or following Dalish ways (mind you, perhaps his tattoo is somehow meant to be vallaslin, and I am wrong--more likely it's a mark of ownership by the Crows, who effectively bought him and enslaved him).

 

Basically the only semi-acceptable romance throughout Dragon Age for a Dalish elf would be Merrill.  And she's out because of blood magic and consorting with demons.  Maybe Velanna, but she wasn't actually a romance option.

 

It short of depends on what the clans's policy for city elves. The dalish warden's clan accepted a city elf into their fold and the dalish clan that was attacked by the werewolves has a first that was once a city elf. Also, didn't they house an elf that fled from the circle that you meet in Wynne's companion quest? I think some dalish clans are a bit more flexible when it comes to city elves.

[Brass_Buckles]

It short of depends on what the clans's policy for city elves. The dalish warden's clan accepted a city elf into their fold and the dalish clan that was attacked by the werewolves has a first that was once a city elf. Also, didn't they house an elf that fled from the circle that you meet in Wynne's companion quest? I think some dalish clans are a bit more flexible when it comes to city elves.

 

Yes, it's possible for city elves to be accepted in.  And yes, that does vary by clan.  Some would even allow elf-blooded humans (i.e. Alistair) in, if born to a member of their clan.  Every clan is different.

 

I think it's more common for city elves to be accepted, though, if they are mages.  I don't remember where that bit of knowledge comes from--and it may be retconned now.  Prior to Inquisition, the Dalish apparently really pushed to have lots of mages in their clans.  Now apparently once they have two or three, any extras have to leave or die.  I do wonder if they will retcon that bit, and have it so some clans want lots of mages and others, closer to human towns and cities (and therefore templars) try to keep mage numbers low.

[Uirebhiril]

It short of depends on what the clans's policy for city elves. The dalish warden's clan accepted a city elf into their fold and the dalish clan that was attacked by the werewolves has a first that was once a city elf. Also, didn't they house an elf that fled from the circle that you meet in Wynne's companion quest? I think some dalish clans are a bit more flexible when it comes to city elves.

 

This is the reason commentary about "flat ears" from Dalish or the idea that they throw their excess mage babies into the wild was a "WTF" moment for me. We've seen more than once a clan accepting a city elf and heard how they swap mage kids around. Explaining it by saying "all clans are different" only goes so far when suddenly every experience we have goes against what we've already learned.

 

And I still hold very firmly to my headcanon that extra mage kids are taught to control their abilities and are then just told to shut up about it. They learn to do their part for the clan, whether hunting or making tents or cooking food, because a nomadic culture is going to need everyone's help no matter if they can shoot lightning from their fingers. Some clans might throw their kids away, yes, but I rather believe that's a rumor started on purpose so templars are less likely to raid clans.

[midnight tea]

Man, caranis/solas-an works fast:

 

Solas in Mythal vallaslin:

 

Spoiler

http://solas-an.tumb...is-is-a-request

 

Yep, still hot.

 

... I have to admit, IF this whole "Solas was once Mythal's servant/guardian and might have actually worn her vallaslin at one point" (and he wears it well, I gotta admit) is true, I'm surprised his head didn't explode out of sheer amounts of irony, if it turned out that Lavellan he approves of/loves proudly wears vallaslin of his former... um, boss (I mean, let's face it, even IF his relation with Mythal isn't as complicated as it seems to be emerging, she's still one Evanura he respected greatly and cooperated with).

 

(as it happens, my Lavellan had one, lol. Pure coincidence though - I picked Mythal's minimal one purely for aesthetic reasons)

[The Lone Shadow]

Yes, it's possible for city elves to be accepted in.  And yes, that does vary by clan.  Some would even allow elf-blooded humans (i.e. Alistair) in, if born to a member of their clan.  Every clan is different.

 

I think it's more common for city elves to be accepted, though, if they are mages.  I don't remember where that bit of knowledge comes from--and it may be retconned now.  Prior to Inquisition, the Dalish apparently really pushed to have lots of mages in their clans.  Now apparently once they have two or three, any extras have to leave or die.  I do wonder if they will retcon that bit, and have it so some clans want lots of mages and others, closer to human towns and cities (and therefore templars) try to keep mage numbers low.

 

Its proubebly done by those who live near human cities, since the Chantry just bearly tolerates them and would likely go after them if they carried a lot of mages. The clan that was attacked by werewolves did live in the Brecilian forest, far away from humans and the templers that do go there are likely to die before they get to a clan. I remember seeing quite a few dead templers in that forest, though I always thought it was because of the mad hermit.

[S.W.]

Actually, romance is definitely a thing with Dalish clans.  Maybe that is not the case in all clans--we're told repeatedly in various sources that every clan has its own customs and traditions.  Some may be like the city elves, and use marriage as a rite of passage.  Others may do arranged marriages where either you are sent outside of your clan, or an outsider is brought in.

 

I meant the in-game romance options for DA:I

 

none of them are dalish, and even if your clan is more accepting of city elves, both of your options have bad blood with the dalish. I mean, you have the elf-hating, anti-dalish, anti-city-elf, anti-any-elf, wild andrastian lesbian, and then you have the dread wolf. Doesn't exactly scream 'harhen greatly approves'.

 

I think a fiercely loyal dalish elf may feel the need to ignore their feelings for any of the romance options out of a combination of cultural pressure, pride, and fear of being thrown out of their clan (if their clan is less forgiving of that sort of thing).

[midnight tea]

This is the reason commentary about "flat ears" from Dalish or the idea that they throw their excess mage babies into the wild was a "WTF" moment for me. We've seen more than once a clan accepting a city elf and heard how they swap mage kids around. Explaining it by saying "all clans are different" only goes so far when suddenly every experience we have goes against what we've already learned.

 

And I still hold very firmly to my headcanon that extra mage kids are taught to control their abilities and are then just told to shut up about it. They learn to do their part for the clan, whether hunting or making tents or cooking food, because a nomadic culture is going to need everyone's help no matter if they can shoot lightning from their fingers. Some clans might throw their kids away, yes, but I rather believe that's a rumor started on purpose so templars are less likely to raid clans.

 

Heh, imagine heads exploding when the sheer depravity and decadence of ancient elves began apparent in the game... I'm not surprised they threw something a bit antagonizing or surprisingly cold a bit earlier.

[The Lone Shadow]

This is the reason commentary about "flat ears" from Dalish or the idea that they throw their excess mage babies into the wild was a "WTF" moment for me. We've seen more than once a clan accepting a city elf and heard how they swap mage kids around. Explaining it by saying "all clans are different" only goes so far when suddenly every experience we have goes against what we've already learned.

 

And I still hold very firmly to my headcanon that extra mage kids are taught to control their abilities and are then just told to shut up about it. They learn to do their part for the clan, whether hunting or making tents or cooking food, because a nomadic culture is going to need everyone's help no matter if they can shoot lightning from their fingers. Some clans might throw their kids away, yes, but I rather believe that's a rumor started on purpose so templars are less likely to raid clans.

I think its Biowares attempt to make groups grey, but they don't really do much to lighten the Dalish in DA:I. Mostly just make it dark. 

 

Agreed with you're headcannon.

[Arvaarad]

I think its Biowares attempt to make groups grey, but they don't really do much to lighten the Dalish in DA:I. Mostly just make it dark.

Agreed with you're headcannon.

The clans are pretty independent, so they're going to act differently from clan to clan. For example, clan Lavellan traded with humans and felt it was important to involve themselves in the Conclave (albeit under the radar). The Sabrae clan would be very unlikely to do either of those things.

I expect the more dire stories are true for some clan, somewhere, and the humans fixate on those examples. As with marginalized groups IRL, they'll pick and choose behaviors from different extreme subgroups. The goal is to stitch together the ugliest possible picture of the group as a whole, without technically telling falsehoods.

[midnight tea]

Another drop of speculation to add here - there's been something I've been thinking about concerning the supposed immortality (or loss of it) by remaining ancient elves, including that of Solas himself.

 

Been just reading a rather cute fic in which he's gotten sick, and while his denial of it and grumpiness over people fussing over him and being forced to drink tea is all kinds of adorable, I just couldn't help being reminded of that particular issue - if he indeed isn't immortal anymore and only lived a few years in a world with the Veil up, while it's been established that humans may have not indeed brought mortality to elves, but certainly brought diseases upon those who who didn't yet had much contact with humans.... shouldn't Solas be either dead or almost constantly bedridden, not having an immune system that would be able to cope with the constant assault of new germs, viruses and all the nasty stuff?

 

I mean, surely, even if he mostly avoided everyone in the first year he was awake, after he joined Inquisition he was around people often enough to catch something, IF his body indeed works like that of other mortals after the created the Veil.

[BoscoBread]

Well, I did ask him that and yes, he did imply it would have more or less been horrible.  But my question was whether it might have been less horrible than what he feels he has to do now, since he no longer has the orb.

Is there a sliding scale of Apocalypse(apocali??) because I think the shades of grey in world ending chaos get lost in the end result. 

[Brass_Buckles]

The clans are pretty independent, so they're going to act differently from clan to clan. For example, clan Lavellan traded with humans and felt it was important to involve themselves in the Conclave (albeit under the radar). The Sabrae clan would be very unlikely to do either of those things.

I expect the more dire stories are true for some clan, somewhere, and the humans fixate on those examples. As with marginalized groups IRL, they'll pick and choose behaviors from different extreme subgroups. The goal is to stitch together the ugliest possible picture of the group as a whole, without technically telling falsehoods.

 

Similarly, Keeper Gisharel is the source of most outsiders' knowledge of the Dalish.  But the Dalish will openly say that he's not such a great source, and if you want to really understand the Dalish, you have to listen to the Keepers--every clan has its own rich oral history and lore that is passed down from Keeper to Keeper.

 

Much as Solas detests the Dalish for what they got wrong, you have to admire their tenacity in even trying to keep their old ways alive.  Even if they didn't succeed, they really have built a fascinating culture for themselves, one that is arguably worth preserving even if one does not believe in their myths.  And yet, in keeping with the faith vs. doubt theme, we can still doubt that Solas's point of view (evanuris aren't gods, and they were truly terrible people) is 100% true.  A Dalish could still have faith in the Creators by the end of the game--it just takes a little more work to believe after all of that.  Or a firm belief that Fen'harel is a liar and a trickster...

[Brass_Buckles]

Is there a sliding scale of Apocalypse(apocali??) because I think the shades of grey in world ending chaos get lost in the end result. 

 

Well, there is always the chance of "this will bring great chaos to the world and a lot of people will probably die/not be able to handle it," vs. "I am going to have to release all of the ancient elven gods and murder a lot of people to make this happen now."

 

Obviously both stink, but one's a "might" and the other's a "definitely will" in terms of hurting/killing people.

[FernRain]

I like the Dirthamen pic! Nice work.

 

I made a post of things I've noticed that are similar in the murals on Frank's lore thread, here:

 

 

Orbs powered by vallaslin? Or that have control over them? Like the qamek thing I was talking about.

[Brass_Buckles]

I like the Dirthamen pic! Nice work.

 

I made a post of things I've noticed that are similar in the murals on Frank's lore thread, here:

 

 

Orbs powered by vallaslin? Or that have control over them? Like the qamek thing I was talking about.

 

Something interesting I just noticed:

 

The elves on the left, getting their vallaslin removed, are a lot more stylized/less "people"-ish than the ones on the right who have had their vallaslin successfully removed.  They also appear to be bald.

 

This looks like Solas was doing some major propaganda, to me.  "Come, join me, and become individual people as you were meant to be!  Gain facial features and grow glorious hair!"

[electricfish]

Just because we're 2/2 regarding city elves joining a Dalish clan doesn't mean you can actually apply it to a majority of Dalish. Lanya is the only known city elf in Zathrien's clan, and only because he took pity on her as a young child. Guilt and pain over is daughter directly influenced his decision to take her in. She also specifically states that she's had to work twice as hard to even be accepted as one of their own, and even further than that to be considered Zathrien's apprentice.

 

Marethari seems much more accepting of city elves in general, or at least displayed a reasonably accepting attitude in DAO and DA2 (before she traded her life for Merril's, at least). Finding Pol among clan Sabrae is in-character for the standards of Marethari, but even after years of trying to integrate he still seems to face some prejudice by some older members of the clan. 

 

It's not a matter of "well, every clan so far has happily taken in city elves and works well with them." It IS grey, despite the "success." Clan Lavellan may be the most liberal of the 3 clans we've seen, especially since they appear to have an easier time accepting their role in Wycome's city council and interacting with the city elves. We also don't actually have a personal view of what the Keeper thinks, or what the regular members of the clan think of the situation because all the information we have on that situation is either from our advisors, or a letter from the Keeper being polite and diplomatic about it.

[BoscoBread]

Well, there is always the chance of "this will bring great chaos to the world and a lot of people will probably die/not be able to handle it," vs. "I am going to have to release all of the ancient elven gods and murder a lot of people to make this happen now."

 

Obviously both stink, but one's a "might" and the other's a "definitely will" in terms of hurting/killing people.

I think the previous thing was worse. He was going to do it without thought or care.  

 

It's probably much the same as it is now.  He now doesn't need "his power", he has Mythal's.  You have a better chance of stopping him. He gives you a head start.  

[Arvaarad]

Well, there is always the chance of "this will bring great chaos to the world and a lot of people will probably die/not be able to handle it," vs. "I am going to have to release all of the ancient elven gods and murder a lot of people to make this happen now."

Obviously both stink, but one's a "might" and the other's a "definitely will" in terms of hurting/killing people.

There aren't just the evanuris to worry about, there's also the titans. Cory's teeny tiny breach makes one of them a little bit agitated. Where "a little bit agitated" = "extremely destructive earthquakes". If there's more than one of those fellows, removing the entire Veil could physically tear Thedas apart, never mind the political/magical turmoil.

[Brass_Buckles]

I think the previous thing was worse. He was going to do it without thought or care.  

 

It's probably much the same as it is now.  He now doesn't need "his power", he has Mythal's.  You have a better chance of stopping him. He gives you a head start.  

 

His impulse was worse, but the results might not have been.  Or, conversely, his current plans might result in more suffering while his previous plans might have been "clean cut" so to speak.  Remember that although what he intends to do is absolutely monstrous, he genuinely doesn't want people to suffer.  And, by the end of DA:I, he did consider them people--even if he hadn't had much time to think about that.

 

I don't think it's going to matter in regard to anyone but Solas, though; the Veil will come down with or without him.  Whether we stop him by coaxing him or killing him will not stop the Veil from being removed.  I wonder if we will even possibly get a choice to help him in DA4, when all is said and done and we know more about the "why" and "how."  I probably wouldn't help him, but then what if there are genuinely good reasons to do so, beyond just helping his people?  What if the world is living on borrowed time anyway, unless the Veil is removed?  Or what if the Veil is already deteriorating?

[Brass_Buckles]

There aren't just the evanuris to worry about, there's also the titans. Cory's teeny tiny breach makes one of them a little bit agitated. Where "a little bit agitated" = "extremely destructive earthquakes". If there's more than one of those fellows, removing the entire Veil could physically tear Thedas apart, never mind the political/magical turmoil.

 

There are also the two remaining Old Gods, who might wake up without the Veil.  We don't know for sure when they went to sleep or why.  Maybe Solas did that too--or maybe someone managed it before him, or after him.  For all we know, the Old Gods are what gave Solas the idea to create the Veil in the first place, after hearing Mythal's genius plan to seal the Old Gods away.

 

There's a lot we don't know.

[drosophila]

Another drop of speculation to add here - there's been something I've been thinking about concerning the supposed immortality (or loss of it) by remaining ancient elves, including that of Solas himself.

 

Been just reading a rather cute fic in which he's gotten sick, and while his denial of it and grumpiness over people fussing over him and being forced to drink tea is all kinds of adorable, I just couldn't help being reminded of that particular issue - if he indeed isn't immortal anymore and only lived a few years in a world with the Veil up, while it's been established that humans may have not indeed brought mortality to elves, but certainly brought diseases upon those who who didn't yet had much contact with humans.... shouldn't Solas be either dead or almost constantly bedridden, not having an immune system that would be able to cope with the constant assault of new germs, viruses and all the nasty stuff?

 

I mean, surely, even if he mostly avoided everyone in the first year he was awake, after he joined Inquisition he was around people often enough to catch something, IF his body indeed works like that of other mortals after the created the Veil.

 

OMG, nice catch! I'm out of likes.

 

Some ideas:

1. Herd immunity would help a bit. Originally, there was a whole group of very susceptible elves. Now he's one susceptible elf among a group of immune humans and elves.

2. He would adjust to the less severe air-borne viruses within 6 months or so. I know that from experience, I was sick non-stop for about 6 months when I first moved to the US, then I was fine again.

3. If he's been working with agents and his body was somewhere accessible while he slept, he could make them get in contact with his body while in uthenera over a decade or so, to inoculate himself gradually with all pathogens while maintaining contact with the Fade, so that he can heal effectively from them.

4. Maybe he just took Felassan's antibodies from his blood into his own when he killed him 

[electricfish]

Question: Is there evidence of a loss of immortality for Solas and the ancient elf murder cult punch drinkers, or is that a theory being tossed around as an assumed consequence of the Veil?