153434 réponses à ce sujet

[figment_]

I had a random thought...If the blight wasn't naturally occurring...what if Ghilan'nain or one of the Forgotten Ones genetically engineered it to use against the Titans. What if Ghilly created darkspawn and/or broodmothers to use against their enemies?

I ran across a disturbing description of the last damaged pages of "Grim Anatomy" in WOT2 pp. 275-276, I think...could these be her designs? I can write up an excerpt in the morning if anyone wants to check it out...

 

 

Okay, here goes...It's actually pp. 276-277, WOT2:

 

The last pages of the Grim Anatomy are largely unreadable, torn, and singed. It's as if someone

attempted to destroy the book. What little can be made out speaks of rot and emptiness.

The accompanying diagrams are bizarre, no longer resembling the physiology of any known

animal but instead a mess of overlapping and interconnected geometric shapes.

 

Thoughts, anyone???

 

 

Watched Fullmetal Alchemist?

 

She's like Shou Tucker, but even worse.

 

Anyhow, more quotes:

 

"In 9:16 Dragon, a strange book was recovered during a University of Orlais expedition into an uncharted section of the Western Approach.

The book is written in an invented script by an unknown author, apparently on the subject of animal physiology."

 

"The author of this book, dubbed the 'Grim Anatomy' by its finders, dissects various creatures using unorthodox methods. The resulting diagrams illustrate in great detail how nugs, giants, wyverns, and others look on the inside.

Careful story is paid to the eyes of the nug. Based on the drawings and limited deciphering of the text, the author seems all but obsessed with understanding what animals see and how this might differ from own perception of reality."

 

"In later pages of the Grin Anatomy, the author tears a giant's eye straight from its socket. 'If the eye is the window through which it crawls, then where in the skull does it hide," they wonder. 'It' likely refers to a demon attempting to possess the beast."

 

"It is widely believed that the Grim Anatomy's focus is on demonic possession, specifically how a demon, itself a tangible being, can enter into the mind of another and manipulate it. Here, the author observes the motor skills of a possessed wyvern. 'It is not wearing the creature's skin,' the notes read. 'It has become the creature: its mind, its senses... its blood.'"

 

 

I always thought the last page was a diagram of a Titan.  I thought it might be something done by Ghilan'ain, but there's no real way to know.

 

I've been looking over these pages referring to the "Grim Anatomy" some more...Especially with the attention given by the author emphasizing eyes, seeing, and perception. The stories of Ghilan'nain all mention that she was "blinded" by a hunter...I wonder if this is related...If it does refer to the Blight/darkspawn/red lyrium/Titans, maybe she even blinded herself to prevent "infection."

 

Random thought: If the eyes are the windows to the soul, and blight affects the soul, then the line above starting with "If the eye is the window through which it crawls..." kind of makes makes sense...?

 

Also the "invented script" appears to be based on Braille...Was there a tweet from one of the writers that confirmed that ages ago or did I dream that???

[Brass_Buckles]

Yeah, but although I realize there must be more ancient elves than what we saw at the temple that can't be enough for Solas to build his new wold around.

Wouldn't he try to change the modern elves? Give them magic, give them "immortality"? I mean, he has modern elves working as his agents, what is he promising them? I would assume a better world for them to live in... but do they know at what cost?

UH SO MANY QUESTIONS!

 

Well, there's no real guarantee that he does have modern elves as agents.

 

Some of the modern elves may have been working for the Qun (in fact many of them may have been, as it is widely considered a more acceptable lifestyle than being an oppressed alienage elf).  Some may indeed be working for Solas, but if they are, then they are likely working more for his agents, and kept in the dark about the consequences.

 

It's also possible that a lot of modern elves have been killed to make room for Solas's agents to infiltrate--as well as qunari agents.  Remember that just as Solas did not see them as people at first, his agents likely won't see them as people either.  Easier to kill a non-person if you need to take their place and be a spy.  And since most humans barely notice the elven servants in the first place, would they even notice if a different elf were to take the place of, say, one of the kitchen staff?

 

I think there are a lot more ancient elves remaining than just the Sentinels.  Many of the survivors are probably still asleep in uthenera.  They may have trouble waking because of the Veil.  Others were trapped still alive behind the eluvians (both within the Crossroads and in isolated corners of Thedas), and they were freed when Solas opened those eluvians.  There could be more ancients running around now than there are modern elves--and that actually wouldn't surprise me much because we know that modern elves, especially the Dalish, are on the decline.  Even though we are told that elves breed quickly by the humans, we see whole clans being wiped out, and chevaliers freely killing large groups of alienage elves frequently--just as an initiation rite.  People can't breed quickly enough to make up for all of the losses that the elves have suffered, and even then if they intermix with any other race, their children will not be elven at all.

[NeverlandHunter]

LOL, eventually I'll work myself into a corner with this... But not yet

 

So, first of all, it might be wisest to not be pregnant for long if you're a shapeshifter. You already have the capacity to control the structure and function of your body and the passage of time. So why not shorten your pregnancy to just a week or two? (Wouldn't it be awesome if we could actually do this? I'd be a lot more inclined to have children.) 

 

If you still have to be pregnant and shapeshift, it would depend on the size and stage of development of the fetus. For a small fetus in the first two trimesters, you can avoid altering your womb and its contents and just turn into a pregnant wolf that carries a human baby inside. If you carry a large fetus and want to turn into a smaller mammal or if you want to turn into a non-mammal like a dragon, you might not be able to do this. 

 

And you better not be doing something to endager the baby after you shapeshift   I say, just stay somewhere safe with rest, light exercise, and a healthy connection to the Fade during the looong two weeks of your pregnancy 

Two weeks of pregnancy X) everybody would want to learn how to shapeshift! But I feel like trying to speed up the creature's development unnaturally might have negative consequences... although I can't see Morrigan dealing with pregnancy for 9 months either.

 

If you did shift without knowing you were pregnant though I would assume it would accidentally kill the womb dweller... but what would happen to their body?

Uh, morbid.

 

I wonder if you can get pregnant in a shapeshifted form...  trying not to think about that now.

 

Shapeshifting is crazy!

[NeverlandHunter]

No, we're never told that it's completely removed - the Anchor itself is removed, yes, but whether there's some residual magic of some sorts remains an unknown. We did see Anchor's unstable magic spill much farther than a hand and forearm after all.

 

Also, no - I don't think everyone else would be hurting a whole lot more. He did say to Inquisitor that he stopped the Qun to give the South some final peace and that he wants people to die in comfort. From the looks of it, it seems that whatever Solas plans to do may be pretty quick, catching most people unaware.

 

Him though? He expects to pay the ultimate price himself, which from his own description seems like eternity of fate worse than death.

Well a lot of people will know what he plans to do now. As they struggle to prevent him from destroying their world they are hardly living comfortably. He might be hurting "more" (pain isn't really measurable since everyone deals with it differently) but it's hard to feel sympathetic when he is the cause of his pain and also the cause of the other sufferers pain ie Lavellan.

 

If he actually committs mass genocide it's no less than he deserves.

 

Wow, I am feeling cold towards Solas today. Ah well, I take my feelings in shifts.

Sympathetic

Angry

Mournful

Hateful

Confused

Annoyed

Disgusted

Obsessive

Loving

etcetera

 

Well, there's no real guarantee that he does have modern elves as agents.

 

Some of the modern elves may have been working for the Qun (in fact many of them may have been, as it is widely considered a more acceptable lifestyle than being an oppressed alienage elf).  Some may indeed be working for Solas, but if they are, then they are likely working more for his agents, and kept in the dark about the consequences.

 

It's also possible that a lot of modern elves have been killed to make room for Solas's agents to infiltrate--as well as qunari agents.  Remember that just as Solas did not see them as people at first, his agents likely won't see them as people either.  Easier to kill a non-person if you need to take their place and be a spy.  And since most humans barely notice the elven servants in the first place, would they even notice if a different elf were to take the place of, say, one of the kitchen staff?

 

I think there are a lot more ancient elves remaining than just the Sentinels.  Many of the survivors are probably still asleep in uthenera.  They may have trouble waking because of the Veil.  Others were trapped still alive behind the eluvians (both within the Crossroads and in isolated corners of Thedas), and they were freed when Solas opened those eluvians.  There could be more ancients running around now than there are modern elves--and that actually wouldn't surprise me much because we know that modern elves, especially the Dalish, are on the decline.  Even though we are told that elves breed quickly by the humans, we see whole clans being wiped out, and chevaliers freely killing large groups of alienage elves frequently--just as an initiation rite.  People can't breed quickly enough to make up for all of the losses that the elves have suffered, and even then if they intermix with any other race, their children will not be elven at all.

Ah, so you think the modern elves will be wiped out the same as the humans, dwarves, and Qunari (although will the dwarves actually be effected?)?

 

Solas is an arse.

 

Not that it makes it worst that he sees modern elves as equally disposable as humans and others. It's still disgusting.

 

Yes, very cold towards Solas today!

[Brass_Buckles]

No, we're never told that it's completely removed - the Anchor itself is removed, yes, but whether there's some residual magic of some sorts remains an unknown. We did see Anchor's unstable magic spill much farther than a hand and forearm after all.

 

Also, no - I don't think everyone else would be hurting a whole lot more. He did say to Inquisitor that he stopped the Qun to give the South some final peace and that he wants people to die in comfort. From the looks of it, it seems that whatever Solas plans to do may be pretty quick, catching most people unaware.

 

Him though? He expects to pay the ultimate price himself, which from his own description seems like eternity of fate worse than death.

 

There might well be aftereffects, but Weekes confirmed the Anchor had been totally removed; this has been discussed before, and someone with an actual Twitter account quoted him.  Therefore, I do not personally believe the Anchor will be the cause of the Inquisitor's death.  Solas came to save the PC from that... at least for a while, because he respects and possibly loves the Inquisitor.

 

As for the damage happening quickly... I have my doubts.  Solas refers to chaos.  He also says that modern people will probably all die, not that they certainly will.  There will be suffering.  He's trying to give everyone peace until that chaos begins.  If they were all, for certain, going to die quickly then it would be kind of him, but that isn't the impression he gives.

 

And yes, I gathered that Solas expects to die.  His precise phrasing made me think that he also may expect his closest agents to die.  He does not want Lavellan to help him, so one would assume he's kind of hoping the Inquisitor (particularly if romanced) will manage to pull through and live anyway.  He also says that it's not a path of honor--which I pointed out before is related to the phrase, "This is not a place of honor."  That phrase is used to mark nuclear test sites and places where highly radioactive material has been buried.  How it relates, precisely, I don't know.  Perhaps he expects that even the ancient elves will suffer to some degree.

 

I still feel zero sympathy for Solas.

 

Even if you imagine it's a clean kill for everyone, he's planning to murder thousands or millions of people (many of them innocent of any real wrongdoing) to achieve his goals.  That can include the person who loves him most of all--romanced Lavellan.  And he tells her that he's planning all this, which puts part of the burden on her.  I feel far more sorry for Lavellan, whether she intends to spare him or kill him, than I can for Solas, no matter how much he expects he will die to achieve his goals.  He doesn't have to do any of what he's up to.  If he thinks Lavellan is dying (either of aftereffects of the mark or for some other reason), he could at least spend a few final years with her.  From the way he spoke, he expected his plans to take years to come to fruition anyway.

[drosophila]

Two weeks of pregnancy X) everybody would want to learn how to shapeshift! But I feel like trying to speed up the creature's development unnaturally might have negative consequences... although I can't see Morrigan dealing with pregnancy for 9 months either.

 

If you did shift without knowing you were pregnant though I would assume it would accidentally kill the womb dweller... but what would happen to their body?

Uh, morbid.

 

I wonder if you can get pregnant in a shapeshifted form...  trying not to think about that now.

 

Shapeshifting is crazy!

If speeding up development is done through manipulating time, so that it flows faster for the fetus (and potentially you) compared to the outside world, I see no threat to the fetus. All stages of development would be exactly the same. 

 

The way I imagine shapeshifting, it has to have the stages of a transmutation in FMA. First you "scan" your body to determine your structure and status at the present time, and only then you start making changes. So you will be able to sense you're pregnant and change accordingly. 

 

It's totally possible to get pregnant while shapeshifting! Only the sperm and the egg need to remain elven, the rest of the two bodies can change into, say... two wolves. Then after the mating, the sperm will take some time to travel and meet the egg, and the egg will take some time to travel and implant into the uterine wall, etc., so you have all that time to change back into an elf. Happy Solavellan smut Saturday, everyone!

[NeverlandHunter]

There might well be aftereffects, but Weekes confirmed the Anchor had been totally removed; this has been discussed before, and someone with an actual Twitter account quoted him.  Therefore, I do not personally believe the Anchor will be the cause of the Inquisitor's death.  Solas came to save the PC from that... at least for a while, because he respects and possibly loves the Inquisitor.

 

As for the damage happening quickly... I have my doubts.  Solas refers to chaos.  He also says that modern people will probably all die, not that they certainly will.  There will be suffering.  He's trying to give everyone peace until that chaos begins.  If they were all, for certain, going to die quickly then it would be kind of him, but that isn't the impression he gives.

 

And yes, I gathered that Solas expects to die.  His precise phrasing made me think that he also may expect his closest agents to die.  He does not want Lavellan to help him, so one would assume he's kind of hoping the Inquisitor (particularly if romanced) will manage to pull through and live anyway.  He also says that it's not a path of honor--which I pointed out before is related to the phrase, "This is not a place of honor."  That phrase is used to mark nuclear test sites and places where highly radioactive material has been buried.  How it relates, precisely, I don't know.  Perhaps he expects that even the ancient elves will suffer to some degree.

 

I still feel zero sympathy for Solas.

 

Even if you imagine it's a clean kill for everyone, he's planning to murder thousands or millions of people (many of them innocent of any real wrongdoing) to achieve his goals.  That can include the person who loves him most of all--romanced Lavellan.  And he tells her that he's planning all this, which puts part of the burden on her.  I feel far more sorry for Lavellan, whether she intends to spare him or kill him, than I can for Solas, no matter how much he expects he will die to achieve his goals.  He doesn't have to do any of what he's up to.  If he thinks Lavellan is dying (either of aftereffects of the mark or for some other reason), he could at least spend a few final years with her.  From the way he spoke, he expected his plans to take years to come to fruition anyway.

I love theories on what's going to happen next! I suck at coming up with them on my own!

 

That bit about the nuclear test sites is really interesting too! I just opened up an article to read about it!

[NeverlandHunter]

If speeding up development is done through manipulating time, so that it flows faster for the fetus (and potentially you) compared to the outside world, I see no threat to the fetus. All stages of development would be exactly the same. 

 

The way I imagine shapeshifting, it has to have the stages of a transmutation in FMA. First you "scan" your body to determine your structure and status at the present time, and only then you start making changes. So you will be able to sense you're pregnant and change accordingly. 

 

It's totally possible to get pregnant while shapeshifting! Only the sperm and the egg need to remain elven, the rest of the two bodies can change into, say... two wolves. Then after the mating, the sperm will take some time to travel and meet the egg, and the egg will take some time to travel and implant into the uterine wall, etc., so you have all that time to change back into an elf. Happy Solavellan smut Saturday, everyone!

I don't know if I needed that image in my head

[Brass_Buckles]

Well a lot of people will know what he plans to do now. As they struggle to prevent him from destroying their world they are hardly living comfortably. He might be hurting "more" (pain isn't really measurable since everyone deals with it differently) but it's hard to feel sympathetic when he is the cause of his pain and also the cause of the other sufferers pain ie Lavellan.

 

If he actually committs mass genocide it's no less than he deserves.

 

Wow, I am feeling cold towards Solas today. Ah well, I take my feelings in shifts.

Sympathetic

Angry

Mournful

Hateful

Confused

Annoyed

Disgusted

Obsessive

Loving

etcetera

 

Ah, so you think the modern elves will be wiped out the same as the humans, dwarves, and Qunari (although will the dwarves actually be effected?)?

 

Solas is an arse.

 

Not that it makes it worst that he sees modern elves as equally disposable as humans and others. It's still disgusting.

 

Yes, very cold towards Solas today!

 

Considering Solas believes that Lavellan will die in future events, yes, I think he expects modern elves to also die.  It is arguable that the aftereffects of the Anchor will kill the Inquisitor, but as I said before--and if someone wants, they can dig out that tweet from Weekes again--the Anchor itself was removed.  Solas has saved the Inquisitor... for now, at least.  I think that it was for the same reason that he's trying to ensure everyone else has peace... for a while.  Plus maybe also out of special respect/love for the Inquisitor.

 

What I was getting at, though, is that a lot of modern elves may have already died for Solas's plans.  Again, if non-elves aren't paying much attention to the elves, then it's easy for an unfamiliar elf to take the place of one who has been around for years without really being seen.  So how do you get those invisible modern elves out of the way?  You probably kill them.   And the Qun is also a factor, because we know that they had a lot of elven spies, not just in the Inquisition but elsewhere.

 

That said, I am not saying that there couldn't be any modern elves being agents for Solas, but I am saying it's possible that there are none.  All we know is that elves are running off elsewhere--not to where they are running, or whether they are modern elves or ancient elves or descendants of ancient elves who somehow kept themselves apart from the city elf/Dalish elf/slave elf split.

[Brass_Buckles]

I love theories on what's going to happen next! I suck at coming up with them on my own!

 

That bit about the nuclear test sites is really interesting too! I just opened up an article to read about it!

 

Well basically that phrase, "This is not a place of honor," is meant to warn future people not to do archaeological digs there.  It's meant to declare that the test sites/buried radioactive material is not the remains of some temple, or a burial site of any kind where important archaeological studies could be done.

 

Whether people will even be able to interpret the words, much less their meaning, hundreds or thousands of years from now, is a matter for debate.  And whether they would understand what the phrasing was meant to convey is also uncertain.  If I saw that same phrasing somewhere, I might believe the place to have been the location of a massive plague or a terrible civil war.  I probably wouldn't immediately read it as a warning not to go there for my own safety.

[midnight tea]

There might well be aftereffects, but Weekes confirmed the Anchor had been totally removed; this has been discussed before, and someone with an actual Twitter account quoted him.  Therefore, I do not personally believe the Anchor will be the cause of the Inquisitor's death.  Solas came to save the PC from that... at least for a while, because he respects and possibly loves the Inquisitor.

 

I think I've seen all possible tweets about Anchor from Weekes - not one mentions Anchor being removed with words like "totally" or "entirely" being used, in fact - like I said - he oftentimes tiptoed around the answer, like here: https://twitter.com/...836495456702464, or here: https://twitter.com/PatrickWeekes/status/642009551328276480

 

...Presumably, the latter?

 

 

As for the damage happening quickly... I have my doubts.  Solas refers to chaos.  He also says that modern people will probably all die, not that they certainly will.  There will be suffering.  He's trying to give everyone peace until that chaos begins.  If they were all, for certain, going to die quickly then it would be kind of him, but that isn't the impression he gives.

 

Solas refers to chaos when he describes what would have happened if he followed with his initial plans. Also - "the world burning in raw chaos" doesn't necessarily means "everybody runs around on fire, screaming".

 

 

And yes, I gathered that Solas expects to die.  His precise phrasing made me think that he also may expect his closest agents to die.  He does not want Lavellan to help him, so one would assume he's kind of hoping the Inquisitor (particularly if romanced) will manage to pull through and live anyway.  He also says that it's not a path of honor--which I pointed out before is related to the phrase, "This is not a place of honor."  That phrase is used to mark nuclear test sites and places where highly radioactive material has been buried.  How it relates, precisely, I don't know.  Perhaps he expects that even the ancient elves will suffer to some degree.

 

Well... no, that's the thing - if he expects to die, it likely won't be death in literal sense. We hear this especially through Cole, after the Cory defeat.

 

 

 

I still feel zero sympathy for Solas.

 

Even if you imagine it's a clean kill for everyone, he's planning to murder thousands or millions of people (many of them innocent of any real wrongdoing) to achieve his goals.  That can include the person who loves him most of all--romanced Lavellan.  And he tells her that he's planning all this, which puts part of the burden on her.  I feel far more sorry for Lavellan, whether she intends to spare him or kill him, than I can for Solas, no matter how much he expects he will die to achieve his goals.  He doesn't have to do any of what he's up to.  If he thinks Lavellan is dying (either of aftereffects of the mark or for some other reason), he could at least spend a few final years with her.  From the way he spoke, he expected his plans to take years to come to fruition anyway.

 

We don't yet know what really is going to happen or how he's planning to 'save the elves' really, only that it will definitely bring about some drastic change to the world. However, IF it turns out that his plan is more complicated than what he revealed (and I totally expect it to be that way, otherwise it would be just too easy) and, say, the survival of this world in this state means he will effectively murder all those "sleeping, masked in a mirror, waiting, hurting" (likely many of them innocent of any real wrongdoing as well, and from Cole's words seemingly suffering through all this time) you're going to probably to ask yourself and your Inquisitor whether they can live with either choices (unless there's a third, less "murdery" option).

 

Then there's a question - is Solas sparing Lavellan just a pain of seeing what he becomes, or the burden of knowledge that whether she picks 'the world of the elves' or 'modern Thedas', she herself will effectively become "a murderer" (as you put it) of the side she rejects as well?

 

I mean, if Lavellan/Inquisitor succeeds with a plan to stop Solas and he dies, and whoever he tries to save dies with him (... or what if they're left in torturous sleep for all eternity?), all forgotten, Inkys will never have to be confronted with the awareness of horrendous sacrifice they've just made, thus sparing them pain that will likely rend their souls apart.

[NeverlandHunter]

Well basically that phrase, "This is not a place of honor," is meant to warn future people not to do archaeological digs there.  It's meant to declare that the test sites/buried radioactive material is not the remains of some temple, or a burial site of any kind where important archaeological studies could be done.

 

Whether people will even be able to interpret the words, much less their meaning, hundreds or thousands of years from now, is a matter for debate.  And whether they would understand what the phrasing was meant to convey is also uncertain.  If I saw that same phrasing somewhere, I might believe the place to have been the location of a massive plague or a terrible civil war.  I probably wouldn't immediately read it as a warning not to go there for my own safety.

Yeah, it's really interesting though that they've even had enough forethought to try to keep future peoples away from it. Many Americans (I say like I'm not included in that category) tend to... live in the now (is the nice way to put it). Not that many other countries are any better mind you. Here's the article I read about it. 

[dawnstone]

Really? Weekes confirmed the Inquisitor wouldn't die from the Anchor?

 

I assumed that the arm removal only gave the Inquisitor more time. Solas had said that it would kill her/him eventually... not that I'm disappointed I don't like the idea of my Inquisitor eventually dying from the Anchor after it took so much from her already.

 

Although it makes Solas's choices all the more upsetting. He's not only willing to give up their love, but also her life for his plans.

...

Uhhhhhh, Solas, why??

 

I do wonder what exactly will happen when the Veil is torn down... why would Lavellan die too? Isn't Solas trying to change the modern elves into the ancient elves? Theories?

I personally only took it that he removed the Anchor and stopped Inquisitor from dying.... for now. But what Inquisitor is supposed to eventually die from is actually an unknown. Weeks himself actually tiptoed around any sort for solid answer for a while (since quite a few people asked about it in first few days of Treaspasser out), so it kinda makes me suspect that the true answer may be a bit complicated.

 

Weekes said that he removed the Anchor, so it no longer threatens the Inquisitor's life. Why the Inquisitor would die afterwards, according to Solas, I assumed is because they are a mortal who will be caught up in the chaos of the Veil's removal (and if you stand in his way, he may also try to kill you). Solas believes that what he's going to do will be so catastrophic to the current world, it will likely kill anyone who is not one of his People or whoever it is he is protecting.

 

If that is really the case has yet to be seen. He doesn't seem to be making any special effort to preserve the current residents of Thedas, as he sees their very existence as an abomination that he caused by his mistake.

 

Removing the Veil might not kill everyone, but it might upend the current order to the point where anarchy reigns, all the Titans wake up and start causing earthquakes, spirits flood into the world and get corrupted, and people who didn't have magic suddenly do and are out of control. There are all sorts of horrible things that could happen.

 

He seems to believe that since you are a mortal, you will be caught up in it and there is nothing he can do to save you even if he wanted to (and since you're mortal, you're going to die in a few years by his reckoning of time, anyway. Just think, he's being merciful so you don't have to suffer old age and infirmity). Grim and fatalistic bastard.

[LilithMB]

 

Solas liked Mythal because she cared for her people--according to Solas, at least.  She may have been the only one to treat her slaves well, rather than use them in horrific experiments and rituals.  Again, we don't know the precise context.

 

Mythal is not a perfect paragon of goodness.  She is just as grey a character as any.  While I like her, I think she's ultimately going to be a huge threat.  She's been waiting for thousands of years for vengeance.  She seems to agree with Solas's goals (she gave her power to him willingly, and if the dev notes are true, she actually planned to do so all along), and I think it will be harder to turn her from those plans than it is Solas.  Solas already shows uncertainty about his goals.  This is one of the reasons I think that the Veil will come down even if you do stop or kill Solas--if he doesn't do it, Mythal might.  If she doesn't, then there will be someone else.

 

 

I always thought the last page was a diagram of a Titan.  I thought it might be something done by Ghilan'ain, but there's no real way to know.

Ugh. If Solas turns into Anders 2.0 I am going to scream. But the more I hear the more Im convinced its heading in that direction. Someone help.

I dont know about you guys but it would destroy his character for me personally. I want him to be responsible for every one of his actions, even if they are shitty. And while I believe that the veil is coming down one way or another I really really hope its better and more clever than, to quote Anders "Ah...I didnt do it"

[wildannie]

I've been playing origins today for the first time in ages and properly talked to Owain in the circle tower origin exhaustively for probably only the second time ever  .  I took the opportunity to suggest to him that he was not a person and there was quite a good discussion with my Surana telling him that  he wasn't really a person because he had no feelings or emotions left, and Owain disputing this view maintaining that he was a persn.  He actually seemed a bit annoyed (for a tranquil).  He does remember the person he was before but he is no longer that person, they are essentially dead.  I really think that might be the kind of death in store for the people of Thedas with the removal of the veil.  That discussion, and the comparison made by Solas in Trespasser with the modern people and tranquil kind of suggest that for me.  

 

I was also thinking about Felassen in the light of the DAO joining where Duncan kills Jory.  Okay, so Jory did pull a sword, but he clearly would have left without bloodshed if that had been allowed.  Duncan killed him because he was a threat to to the mission of the Grey wardens.  If the secret of the joining got out the wardens would surely become reviled by the people and become compromised.    This is the same as when Felassen had compromised Solas' operation, he was killed because he could pose and ongoing threat.  

Although we know from the book that Felassen was killed,  from what we know of the lore I can't see how his death was anything other that him being made tranquil as he was killed in the fade, which again comes round to Tranquil being equal to the death of the person, but it is a death that can be undone.

 

Anyway, sorry for the ramblings,  I just wanted to get those thoughts out 

[Brass_Buckles]

I think I've seen all possible tweets about Anchor from Weekes - not one mentions Anchor being "totally" removed, in fact - like I said - he oftentimes tiptoed around the answer, like here: https://twitter.com/...836495456702464, or here: https://twitter.com/PatrickWeekes/status/642009551328276480

 

...Presumably, the latter?

 

 

Solas refers to chaos when he describes what would have happened if he followed with his initial plans. Also - "the world burning in raw chaos" doesn't necessarily means "everybody runs around on fire, screaming".

 

 

Well... no, that's the thing - if he expects to die, it likely won't be death in literal sense. We hear this especially through Cole, after the Cory defeat.

 

 

 

We don't yet know what really is going to happen or how he's planning to 'save the leaves' really, only that it will definitely bring about some drastic change to the world. However, IF it turns out that his plan is more complicated than what he revealed (and I totally expect it to be that way, otherwise it would be just too easy) and, say, the survival of this world in this state means he will effectively murder all those "sleeping, masked in a mirror, waiting, hurting" (likely many of them innocent of any real wrongdoing as well, and from Cole's words seemingly suffering through all this time) you're going to probably to ask yourself and your Inquisitor whether they can live with either choices (unless there's a third, less "murdery" option).

 

Then there's a question - is Solas sparing Lavellan just a pain of seeing what he becomes, or the burden of knowledge that whether she picks 'the world of the elves' or 'modern Thedas', she herself will effectively become "a murderer" (as you put it) of the side she rejects as well?

 

I mean, if Lavellan/Inquisitor succeeds with a plan to stop Solas and he dies, and whoever he tries to save dies with him (... or what if they're left in torturous sleep for all eternity?), all forgotten, Inkys will never have to be confronted with the awareness of horrendous sacrifice they've just made, thus sparing them pain that will likely rend their souls apart.

 

 

It seems like to me Solas wants the Inquisitor to have a chance to keep living, so I personally think that yes, the Anchor is gone.  I don't think it was either of those tweets (maybe I am misremembering though).  I suppose one reason Weekes may be avoiding a 100% clear answer on that, though, is because he wants to be sure he can still have the Anchor become an issue if the story calls for it.  It does appear that the intention is that the Anchor will not kill the Inquisitor--but if that is a story that needs to be told, then that is a story that will be told.

 

As for the chaos to come, I believe he makes it sound like chaos still will be an issue, depending what choices you pick when talking to him.  It's inevitable if he carries out his plan.  Everyone is not just going to fall over peacefully dead.  It's not going to be that simple--especially when he also seems to think, for a low-approval Inquisitor, that there's a (slight) chance that not everyone will die, or maybe that it won't kill anyone at all.

 

As for Solas expecting to die, I kind of wonder if he thinks his spirit will die.  If he doesn't mean it in a literal sense, he could simply mean that "Solas" will cease to exist, and there will be only the monster, "Fen'harel."  Either way, his "this is a path of death" speech doesn't sound like good news for anyone directly involved.

 

I don't doubt at all that Solas's plans are complicated, but they are nevertheless monstrous and Solas knows it.  It's why he tells you "I'm not a monster," and then tells you how nice he's trying to be by letting you have some peace before the slaughter.  Except, if he carries out his plan as is, he will be a monster.  It's possible the Elvhen could be saved without doing what he's doing.  It's just that they wouldn't have their connection to the Fade and presumably wouldn't be immortal anymore (we don't know that for sure).

 

Whatever else happens, though, I'm reasonably sure that even if we stop Solas--which we probably will--the Veil will still come down.  How and why, if not because we're simply too late to really stop Solas, I'm not sure.

 

My theory?  You know, a lot of people say it's probably not going to be a big deal in the end that you did X or Y, but in the case of drinking the Well, I think YOU might end up being the one who tears down the Veil, even though you may stop Solas.  Otherwise, it's probably going to be Morrigan--even if she doesn't actually want to do it.  With Mythal apparently on Solas's side in this, I don't think we can count on her to be on our side this time.  Maybe I'm wrong--but if I am, it will simply be someone else who carries out the plan.

[Brass_Buckles]

Ugh. If Solas turns into Anders 2.0 I am going to scream. But the more I hear the more Im convinced its heading in that direction. Someone help.

I dont know about you guys but it would destroy his character for me personally. I want him to be responsible for every one of his actions, even if they are shitty. And while I believe that the veil is coming down one way or another I really really hope its better and more clever than, to quote Anders "Ah...I didnt do it"

 

Well, my theory has nothing to do with Solas actually acting.  I'm thinking more along the lines of Morrigan, or the Inquisitor who drank the Well, completing the plan to take down the Veil.  Possibly both of them working together.

 

If you stop Solas (by convincing him) he then survives to try to help during the ensuing chaos, or he may die in trying to stop whoever actually does take down the Veil.  If you kill him, then he's already dead so clearly he can't be the one acting to take down the Veil.

 

There is some of Mythal in Solas, but we don't know if it's just her power or a piece of her essence--we do know that some of her essence was meant to be sent to Morrigan.

 

Whatever the case, Solas has been planning this for a long time.  His plans and goals are his own, whether or not Mythal agrees with them.  His uncertainty suggests we can stop him.  So, if we stop him, then we really do stop him.  I don't think he'll change his mind.  That's why I say we're going to see the Inquisitor or Morrigan sabotage plans, or if I am wrong and Mythal doesn't want to bring about the end of the world to achieve her vengeance, we will see a previously unknown player join the game to tear down the Veil.  Maybe it will be one of the five unknown Tevinter magisters.  Maybe it will be an ancient elf who wasn't as trapped as we thought.  Hard to say.  Either way, my theory doesn't hinge on Solas lacking free will.

[Eivuwan]

At the end of the day, Solas is very very cruel to Lavellan and I am wondering how he is going to make up for that if we get to redeem him.

[TheyCallMeBunny]

 

I know a lot of people really hate this idea but, yes, Mythal kept slaves, and no, she doesn't seem to have been inclined to set them free.  Remember the Temple of Mythal?  Remember what Abelas says about drinking the Well?  "You would be bound, as we are bound."  He's still a slave, thousands upon thousands of years later.  He's also loyal, and he may have become Mythal's slave willingly.  We don't know.

 

Solas liked Mythal because she cared for her people--according to Solas, at least.  She may have been the only one to treat her slaves well, rather than use them in horrific experiments and rituals.  Again, we don't know the precise context.

 

Mythal is not a perfect paragon of goodness.  She is just as grey a character as any.  While I like her, I think she's ultimately going to be a huge threat.  She's been waiting for thousands of years for vengeance.  She seems to agree with Solas's goals (she gave her power to him willingly, and if the dev notes are true, she actually planned to do so all along), and I think it will be harder to turn her from those plans than it is Solas.  Solas already shows uncertainty about his goals.  This is one of the reasons I think that the Veil will come down even if you do stop or kill Solas--if he doesn't do it, Mythal might.  If she doesn't, then there will be someone else.

 

Yeah, I doubt Mythal was above reproach, although Solas seems convinced she was at least better than the rest of the Evanuris. It could account for how their relationship became "complex" if he kept freeing her slaves against her will I suppose.   I know some people worry that Mythal still has some kind of hold over him, but he does say in Trespasser that he is no one's agent but his own.

 

​I do wish we could have questioned Abelas more thoroughly! Like, what happened to the temple of Mythal and all her slaves/priests after her murder? Did the rest of the Evanuris simply leave them alone or did Solas create the Veil before they had time to divide the spoils among themselves? 

 

I'm still fascinated by the thought of how Solas would have organized everything - he could hardly have done everything alone could he? He is so adamant that that all organizations will end up corrupted, and I'm not sure he's talking about the Evanuris. I wonder what measures he has made to ensure that his current organization doesn't suffer the same fate...

[TheEggCrusher]

ookk soo I know this is random but there's this fanfiction I found and I love it so much and it's so good and blaaaah 

 

just updated today and I thought I would share it with you guys XD: http://archiveofouro...hapters/9883370

 

I'm pretty sure it's going to stay in-tune with the events of Trespasser, especially after some hinting from the latest chapter. I think it's gonna be a nice fic to heal our broken hearts   (or break them more, I'm not sure yet) 

[S.W.]

I was also thinking about Felassen in the light of the DAO joining where Duncan kills Jory.  Okay, so Jory did pull a sword, but he clearly would have left without bloodshed if that had been allowed.  Duncan killed him because he was a threat to to the mission of the Grey wardens.  If the secret of the joining got out the wardens would surely become reviled by the people and become compromised.    This is the same as when Felassen had compromised Solas' operation, he was killed because he could pose and ongoing threat.  

Although we know from the book that Felassen was killed,  from what we know of the lore I can't see how his death was anything other that him being made tranquil as he was killed in the fade, which again comes round to Tranquil being equal to the death of the person, but it is a death that can be undone.

 

Anyway, sorry for the ramblings,  I just wanted to get those thoughts out 

 

Duncan and Jory is a very good comparison to Solas and Felassan, even if the scales and the stakes were completely different. Both Jory and Felassan, on obtaining knew information, realised they were about to make a sacrifice that they wouldn't be willing to make, and were killed by their superior to ensure the original mission wouldn't fail.

 

The main difference between the two is that Felassan's problem was about principle - he discovered the value in modern elves' lives, and couldn't justify killing them, and one can argue that Felassan was morally justified to betray Solas for those reasons - whereas Jory's problem was much more personal - he discovered the cost of becoming a warden, and couldn't go through it knowing that he had a wife and child at home, and his justification for his actions has less to do with ethics and more to do with survival.

[Brass_Buckles]

At the end of the day, Solas is very very cruel to Lavellan and I am wondering how he is going to make up for that if we get to redeem him.

 

Even though hopefully Solas doesn't pull an Anders and accomplish his goal regardless (I am pretty sure it's going to happen somehow, just that it won't be Solas who does it--at least not most likely), I think their relationship thereafter might be something like the relationship between Hawke who romanced Anders and spared him but didn't agree with his actions.

 

Basically you still love him, he still loves you, but there's a lot of strain in the relationship because of what he almost did.  Maybe you can't even be together because of it.

 

However, if you do coax him not to go through with it, you might end up becoming closer to him, since surely he will try to help ease the coming chaos and save as many people as he can.  That's ultimately who he really is--someone who is kind and caring and wants to prevent suffering.  Although he seems to think of himself as more "Wisdom" and "Pride," Solas shares a whole lot in common with our friendly local spirit of compassion.

[Uirebhiril]

At the end of the day, Solas is very very cruel to Lavellan and I am wondering how he is going to make up for that if we get to redeem him.

 

I don't think something like that is ever a case of "make up" for it. It's a case of "move forward from," because that's about the best and healthiest thing you can do.

 

Editing to add that by this I mean, think of cases where a relationship faces a stress from things like infidelity, addiction, hidden things in the past, or so on. In some cases it's an absolute deal breaker; in others, the relationship itself was strong and the couple decides to work through whatever the issue was and stay together. You can't spend all of your time waiting for the guilty party to "make up" for what they did or didn't do. That's unhealthy and adds an imbalance that will cause things to end just as surely as the initial event that caused the situation to begin with. Granted, we're talking on immense scales of WTF with Solas, but any redemption or smoochy continuation of the romance can't be based on Solas abasing himself to Lavellan to "make it better."

 

Just my view.

[midnight tea]

At the end of the day, Solas is very very cruel to Lavellan and I am wondering how he is going to make up for that if we get to redeem him.

 

Well, LOL, I expect him to expect that even if he's going to redeem him, he'd be unable to make up for it and would be far too gone to be fully redeemed anyway. This is likely why he thinks that their love won't endure - because even if he changes his plans and saves everyone (and survives at the end), the fact that he did all those things to her will still be too much anyway. He thinks of himself as a lost cause, in either scenario, methinks. Even if she forgives him, I'm not sure if he'd be able to forgive himself.

[NeverlandHunter]

 

It seems like to me Solas wants the Inquisitor to have a chance to keep living, so I personally think that yes, the Anchor is gone.  I don't think it was either of those tweets (maybe I am misremembering though).  I suppose one reason Weekes may be avoiding a 100% clear answer on that, though, is because he wants to be sure he can still have the Anchor become an issue if the story calls for it.  It does appear that the intention is that the Anchor will not kill the Inquisitor--but if that is a story that needs to be told, then that is a story that will be told.

 

As for the chaos to come, I believe he makes it sound like chaos still will be an issue, depending what choices you pick when talking to him.  It's inevitable if he carries out his plan.  Everyone is not just going to fall over peacefully dead.  It's not going to be that simple--especially when he also seems to think, for a low-approval Inquisitor, that there's a (slight) chance that not everyone will die, or maybe that it won't kill anyone at all.

 

As for Solas expecting to die, I kind of wonder if he thinks his spirit will die.  If he doesn't mean it in a literal sense, he could simply mean that "Solas" will cease to exist, and there will be only the monster, "Fen'harel."  Either way, his "this is a path of death" speech doesn't sound like good news for anyone directly involved.

 

I don't doubt at all that Solas's plans are complicated, but they are nevertheless monstrous and Solas knows it.  It's why he tells you "I'm not a monster," and then tells you how nice he's trying to be by letting you have some peace before the slaughter.  Except, if he carries out his plan as is, he will be a monster.  It's possible the Elvhen could be saved without doing what he's doing.  It's just that they wouldn't have their connection to the Fade and presumably wouldn't be immortal anymore (we don't know that for sure).

 

Whatever else happens, though, I'm reasonably sure that even if we stop Solas--which we probably will--the Veil will still come down.  How and why, if not because we're simply too late to really stop Solas, I'm not sure.

 

My theory?  You know, a lot of people say it's probably not going to be a big deal in the end that you did X or Y, but in the case of drinking the Well, I think YOU might end up being the one who tears down the Veil, even though you may stop Solas.  Otherwise, it's probably going to be Morrigan--even if she doesn't actually want to do it.  With Mythal apparently on Solas's side in this, I don't think we can count on her to be on our side this time.  Maybe I'm wrong--but if I am, it will simply be someone else who carries out the plan.

 

That would suck so much... but would also be kind of fitting.

My Lavellan drank from the Well. Her thought process was "I don't trust Morrigan, this is my people's history, and I could learn so much". My thought process was "well none of my other Inquisitor's are going to be stupid/desperate enough to find a way to justify drinking from the Well, soooo... drink up!".

It would be a dose of bitter irony if while trying to stop Solas from tearing down the Veil Lavellan is forced to do it!

I hate this idea for my Lavellan's happiness... but storywise I think it's brilliant!

 

At the end of the day, Solas is very very cruel to Lavellan and I am wondering how he is going to make up for that if we get to redeem him.

Yeah, my Lavellan loves Solas and wants to change his mind... but even if she were to how could they ever be the same after that? How does a relationship recover after all that craziness? She wants things to go back to how they were, but she wouldn't forgive him easily.