153434 réponses à ce sujet

[NeverlandHunter]

Yeah, I doubt Mythal was above reproach, although Solas seems convinced she was at least better than the rest of the Evanuris. It could account for how their relationship became "complex" if he kept freeing her slaves against her will I suppose.   I know some people worry that Mythal still has some kind of hold over him, but he does say in Trespasser that he is no one's agent but his own.

 

​I do wish we could have questioned Abelas more thoroughly! Like, what happened to the temple of Mythal and all her slaves/priests after her murder? Did the rest of the Evanuris simply leave them alone or did Solas create the Veil before they had time to divide the spoils among themselves? 

 

I'm still fascinated by the thought of how Solas would have organized everything - he could hardly have done everything alone could he? He is so adamant that that all organizations will end up corrupted, and I'm not sure he's talking about the Evanuris. I wonder what measures he has made to ensure that his current organization doesn't suffer the same fate...

Yeah! I really want to know how he did all that too!

I guess he's used to leading from his slave freeing days, and you can get a dialogue from him where you say you trust your friends and he says he knows that mistake. Maybe he wasn't talking about the other Evanuris? He's probably staying extremely detached from them, even if they are other ancient elves. Harden your heart to a cutting edge...

Oh Solas.

[Gervaise]

When a normal mage kills another mage in the Fade they become tranquil but Solas isn't a normal mage, he is a dreamer.    In Ancient Tevinter the dreamers used to enter the minds of their enemies and kill them in their sleep.   Felassan knows this, which is why it says he knows he could just find ways of staying awake and avoiding the Fade and staying running for the rest of his life, but instead he bites the bullet and goes to meet his fate.  

 

I do wonder about the other evanuris.   I'm pretty sure they were no saints; no rulers are but for the most part we do only have Solas' side of the story.   Mythal was murdered, yes, but were they all collectively responsible?    I was very struck by the only authentic testimony from the other side, so to speak.

 

"Beware the forms of Fen'Harel!  The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits.   He will offer advice that seems fair but turns slowly to poison."

 

To my male Dalish Inquisitor that seemed to so perfectly sum up his experience of Solas that he found renewed faith in his own people's memory of the Dread Wolf.   And Solas also admits himself that his name does not mean Rebel Wolf as the text we were given in the Temple of Mythal suggests but is Dread Wolf as given in insult by his enemies the evanuris and then adopted by him and his followers as a badge of honour.

 

I'm at a loss, if we chose to try and redeem him, how exactly this is going to be managed.    He demonstrates throughout the game a profound insight into the world and the minds of people, seems able to see both sides of an argument and empathises with the people who has encountered both in real life and the Fade, has watched the Inquisitor unite disparate factions into united front, until certain agents undermine all your efforts, and admits that he respects you, yet is still willing to sacrifice them all to his ends.     He has even fallen in love with Lavellan and yet this is not sufficient to deflect him from his purpose.   So how on earth are we meant to get him to change his mind?

[Brass_Buckles]

 

 

 

That would suck so much... but would also be kind of fitting.

My Lavellan drank from the Well. Her thought process was "I don't trust Morrigan, this is my people's history, and I could learn so much". My thought process was "well none of my other Inquisitor's are going to be stupid/desperate enough to find a way to justify drinking from the Well, soooo... drink up!".

It would be a dose of bitter irony if while trying to stop Solas from tearing down the Veil Lavellan is forced to do it!

I hate this idea for my Lavellan's happiness... but storywise I think it's brilliant!

 

Yeah, my Lavellan loves Solas and wants to change his mind... but even if she were to how could they ever be the same after that? How does a relationship recover after all that craziness? She wants things to go back to how they were, but she wouldn't forgive him easily.

 

 

If that theory is true, I don't know that you should worry too much about Lavellan's happiness.  You should probably be more concerned that there's a good chance she'd die tearing down the Veil.

[LilithMB]

At the end of the day, Solas is very very cruel to Lavellan and I am wondering how he is going to make up for that if we get to redeem him.

thats a tricky one. Because if he doesnt go through with his plan (the plan is totally happening) because of her then he's pretty much left his people to die. If that were to happen, the relationship is more than likely doomed to fail anyway. Like, how could either of you look at each other after that? They are both going to have to pull something major out of thre cute little asses to avoid all this doom

[RynJ]

At the end of the day, Solas is very very cruel to Lavellan and I am wondering how he is going to make up for that if we get to redeem him.

 

I really don't think he plans to or thinks that he can. It'd be a matter of Lavellan being able to get past it. Solas never really has much to say if you tell him to pretend your relationship never happened, for example. In many ways it's probably easier for both of you. Besides, his guilt hinges on a lot more than just Lavellan, as does everything he does. Even if Lavellan forgave him, whether Solas can forgive himself is in question.

 

Basically it'd be a rough road no matter what. But I feel much more for Solas than Lavellan, which I guess is why I lack the anger at his "cruelty" to her.  Lavellan is just a character I made to interact with much more interesting characters.

 

He has even fallen in love with Lavellan and yet this is not sufficient to deflect him from his purpose.   So how on earth are we meant to get him to change his mind?

 

Him changing his mind is going to have to hinge on more than just Lavellan. In the end, I'm very sure that Solas knows what he's doing is wrong. He's not a fool, and no matter how he tries, he gets attached to individuals rather easily. He operates on guilt and the prideful surety that he at least has the power to make things better than the way they are now. But even though we joke about him being shortsighted and foolish in his plans, he's a smart cookie. He does appreciate logic, and he doesn't want to hurt people. We're going to have to appeal to that relentlessly to get him to realize that this plan isn't going to work out well for anyone.

 

Basically, I think we have to force him to face what he already knows, even if he tries to push what he knows aside. You can't change anyone's mind, they have to change their own. All we can really do is remind him that he should probably do that. 

[NeverlandHunter]

ookk soo I know this is random but there's this fanfiction I found and I love it so much and it's so good and blaaaah 

 

just updated today and I thought I would share it with you guys XD: http://archiveofouro...hapters/9883370

 

I'm pretty sure it's going to stay in-tune with the events of Trespasser, especially after some hinting from the latest chapter. I think it's gonna be a nice fic to heal our broken hearts   (or break them more, I'm not sure yet) 

HI CRUSHER! YAY UPDATE!

 

Duncan and Jory is a very good comparison to Solas and Felassan, even if the scales and the stakes were completely different. Both Jory and Felassan, on obtaining knew information, realised they were about to make a sacrifice that they wouldn't be willing to make, and were killed by their superior to ensure the original mission wouldn't fail.

 

The main difference between the two is that Felassan's problem was about principle - he discovered the value in modern elves' lives, and couldn't justify killing them, and one can argue that Felassan was morally justified to betray Solas for those reasons - whereas Jory's problem was much more personal - he discovered the cost of becoming a warden, and couldn't go through it knowing that he had a wife and child at home, and his justification for his actions has less to do with ethics and more to do with survival.

I always thought Duncan was an arsehole...

Alistair: Duncan was so great!

My Warden who wants to romance him: Uhhh, yeah, very... er, you know... for the greater good minded?

Alistair nodding happily: Yeah he was! Such a great guy!

My Warden mumbles: Alistair you need better father figures...

Alistair: What was that?

My Warden *coughs*: Uh nothing, just remarking on the bad weather. It figures, you know, with everything else going on?

Alistair: The sky is mourning Duncan's loss too!

Morrigan: It would please me greatly if you would cease to speak! I vastly preferred your pathetic whimpering!

[LilithMB]

I really don't think he plans to or thinks that he can. It'd be a matter of Lavellan being able to get past it. Solas never really has much to say if you tell him to pretend your relationship never happened, for example. In many ways it's probably easier for both of you. Besides, his guilt hinges on a lot more than just Lavellan, as does everything he does. Even if Lavellan forgave him, whether Solas can forgive himself is in question.

 

Basically it'd be a rough road no matter what. But I feel much more for Solas than Lavellan, which I guess is why I lack the anger at his "cruelty" to her.  Lavellan is just a character I made to interact with much more interesting characters.

100% this ^^

[TheyCallMeBunny]

Yeah! I really want to know how he did all that too!

I guess he's used to leading from his slave freeing days, and you can get a dialogue from him where you say you trust your friends and he says he knows that mistake. Maybe he wasn't talking about the other Evanuris? He's probably staying extremely detached from them, even if they are other ancient elves. Harden your heart to a cutting edge...

Oh Solas.

It is because of that quote that I am convinced that someone betrayed him, possibly one of the Evanuris or someone from his underground operation (although I suppose it is also possible that it is Mythal's murder he has in mind). Many here on this thread has shown great knowledge about science, but personally my preferred field of studies lies within the humanities and social sciences, so obviously I want to know what kind of boss he is and how he delegates... 

[NeverlandHunter]

If that theory is true, I don't know that you should worry too much about Lavellan's happiness.  You should probably be more concerned that there's a good chance she'd die tearing down the Veil.

Well, if she's going to die, I rather it be doing something noble. Not in horror as her body is being forced to tear down the Veil knowing that it will cause the deaths of thousands. 

And her happiness is important to me!

...

*goes to rewatch Solas break up scene*

[Alejandrawrr]

The Trespasser DLC has me in my feelings, and I've still yet to romance Solas. There should have been a "hug solas" option for an Inquisitor who was his nerd buddy and missed him after he vanished for like, 2 years. At any rate, a Solasmancing playthrough has been on my to-do list for a while, then it came off my list when I saw how he ditched Inqy at the end of vanilla DAI, then it went back on when I saw he was gonna be in Trespasser, and now after the ending I'm not sure I wanna go through with it T_T But it definitely seems like something I want for my canon Inquisitor, so...

On an unrelated note, I've been wondering if Solas might be fulfilling that whole "unreliable narrator" trope, considering his close personal (lover? mother-son?) relationship with Mythal compared to the other Evanuris, not to mention having her essence in him now. Like, of course he'd view her/she'd view herself as "the best of the Elven Gods". Since DA as a whole seems to be big on gray & grey morality, I'd find it interesting if when(?) Solas strikes down the Veil and brings the trapped Gods back, if they have a very different view of Mythal than Solas presented to us. Which is not to say I don't like the character, Flemythal has been one of my favorites since DA:O/The Stolen Throne.

I'm too lazy to quote individual posts, but I think this is mainly @Brass and someone else:

1) I definitely agree that it's feasible whoever drank from the Well, either of whom are extremely powerful mages/characters with access to magic (in the case of a non-mage Inqy) will wind up tearing the Veil if Solas doesn't do it. After all, it seems Solas and Mythal were in on this together, and Flemeth (in her own words) was planning on "a reckoning" (DA2?) and "revenge". Does she want to bring the Elven Gods back to kill them once and for all? Either way, we have an EXTREMELY powerful and knowledgeable (Morrigan) or less powerful due to the loss of a hand but EXTREMELY well-connected (Inq) character walking around Thedas as effectively Mythal's pawn. Even if she herself is completely dead and we defeat Solas, the voices of the well will likely carry out her will regardless.

2) I actually don't think Solas' plan will kill all the Elves (perhaps not even all of the other races?) It will cause tremendous devastation and probably kill MOST of the world's population, but there will be some survivors. This is, of course, assuming the effect of striking down the veil will be similar to the effect of creating it in the first place. When Solas created it, there were of course, some elves who survived, otherwise how could they exist in modern day Thedas? It's not like Solas repopulated the world himself. Furthermore, the Ancient Elves in the Temple of Mythal also survived, so... yeah. That doesn't excuse what he will do, but I don't think EVERYONE will die. I'm assuming most will, but the ones (primarily/solely elves) who survive will have their long lifespans restored.

Unless the Ancient Elves (sans Abelas & co) were also trapped for centuries in the fade with the Elven Gods, and his plan is to bring THEM back and kill the current world. I guess I'm not clear on if that is his plan, or his plan was to restore the old way of life to the current elves (which is what I assumed). If the former is his plan, poor him, he will NEVER be anything less than a villain (as I'm sure they won't be too pleased, having been trapped in another plane for 1000+ years).

[S.W.]

I'm not sure you can make amends for the sort of thing Solas has planned. In fact, I think one of the core problems about Solas' approach is that he has assumed that the most morally just and necessary thing he can do is to amends for his first mistake, the creation of the veil, even if this causes more damage and destruction.

 

Some things can't change. Some things can't be undone. Sometimes you cause an awful amount of damage to one person, or many - and you simply have to recognise that it's happened. The best thing you can do is commit to never making that mistake again, commit to doing good in future, and then moving on with your life. Eventually, you'll learn to forgive yourself.

 

It's quite possible that an immortal being with an immense amount of power who has previously utterly transformed the world and is capable of repeating that feat might have more of a problem with the message 'some things are outside of your control', or 'some mistakes you can't fix'.

 

I think it'd be good if Solas applies that message to his relationship with Lavellan. If he's lucky enough to live through this with his relationship with her (barely) in tact, then the best thing he can do is to move past this, whilst learning to be a hundred times better with relationships than he currently is, striving to do much better for her when all this is over. Honestly, if their relationship manages to move past the whole 'we battled each other over the fate of our entire people and world' thing, it can probably survive anything.

 

I don't think something like that is ever a case of "make up" for it. It's a case of "move forward from," because that's about the best and healthiest thing you can do.

 

I've ran out of likes, but I completely agree.

[Eivuwan]

thats a tricky one. Because if he doesnt go through with his plan (the plan is totally happening) because of her then he's pretty much left his people to die. If that were to happen, the relationship is more than likely doomed to fail anyway. Like, how could either of you look at each other after that? They are both going to have to pull something major out of thre cute little asses to avoid all this doom

 

Which is why I sometimes think that both of them dying together makes the most sense.

[NeverlandHunter]

It is because of that quote that I am convinced that someone betrayed him, possibly one of the Evanuris or someone from his underground operation (although I suppose it is also possible that it is Mythal's murder he has in mind). Many here on this thread has shown great knowledge about science, but personally my preferred field of studies lies within the humanities and social sciences, so obviously I want to know what kind of boss he is and how he delegates... 

Yeah, I think that his motivations and justifications for his actions are the most interesting thing! 

[TheEggCrusher]

Which is why I sometimes think that both of them dying together makes the most sense.

Exactly. I'm actually hoping they both die together. I just want them to be at peace, and I don't know how else that could happen in these circumstances. 

 

spirit!lovers Solavellan is my head canon  

[Sable Rhapsody]

Basically it'd be a rough road no matter what. But I feel much more for Solas than Lavellan, which I guess is why I lack the anger at his "cruelty" to her.  Lavellan is just a character I made to interact with much more interesting characters.

 

I'm the opposite; I love Solas, and he's a great character, but I've probably spent more time with Lavellan than any PC except Shepard.  So I've gotten rather attached to her and her well-being.

 

But really, their own damn choices led them to their current situation, so while I sympathize with both, it only goes so far.  During the main campaign, their situations are unequal since Solas knows the whole story, and Lavellan doesn't.  But as of Trespasser, they're on equal footing, at least in terms of the relationship.  Any Lavellan who gets those romance slides has made the decision to save Solas and love him despite everything.  And Solas is clearly still devoted to her despite trying to bring about the apocalypse.  So...tough luck, sweeties  Hang on for a bumpy ride.

 

I also see that Team Optimism has vanished into the woodwork  *waves tiny TO flag*

[Brass_Buckles]

Well, if she's going to die, I rather it be doing something noble. Not in horror as her body is being forced to tear down the Veil knowing that it will cause the deaths of thousands. 

And her happiness is important to me!

...

*goes to rewatch Solas break up scene*

 

If it doesn't kill her, just imagine Solas's reaction after you just stopped him from doing the same thing.  Storywise, it would be deliciously dramatic.  But from my perspective, I'd be freaking out like:  OMG THAT DIDN'T JUST HAPPEN POOR SOLAS etc.

[Eivuwan]

I'm the opposite; I love Solas, and he's a great character, but I've probably spent more time with Lavellan than any PC except Shepard.  So I've gotten rather attached to her and her well-being.

 

But really, their own damn choices led them to their current situation, so while I sympathize with both, it only goes so far.  During the main campaign, their situations are unequal since Solas knows the whole story, and Lavellan doesn't.  But as of Trespasser, they're on equal footing, at least in terms of the relationship.  Any Lavellan who gets those romance slides has made the decision to save Solas and love him despite everything.  And Solas is clearly still devoted to her despite trying to bring about the apocalypse.  So...tough luck, sweeties  Hang on for a bumpy ride.

 

I also see that Team Optimism has vanished into the woodwork  *waves tiny TO flag*

 

I guess I should bring this out again.

 

[RynJ]

Which is why I sometimes think that both of them dying together makes the most sense.

 

I don't know why this idea creeps me out, but it kind of does. It's somewhat on par with Lavellan joining him in causing destruction (though I'd love if that was an option because how epic would that be for RP?) If Solas is going to die, I really don't want Lavellan to die with him. Though I'd prefer if she was there with him when he died, so at least he won't die alone! I actually pictured this as one of the possible endings for the Solas romance. Solas laying dying while Lavellan holds him and assures him that she's there with him.

 

Of course, I'd rather they just survive together. Lavellan can take him out to travel the world and hopefully someday he can move past things and forgive himself and enjoy living for what it is. If they stop and help people together, all the better, but no more living just to "fix" mistakes or to make up for things he's done. Solas doesn't do well in the redemption cycle. He goes a biiiit overboard. 

 

I'm the opposite; I love Solas, and he's a great character, but I've probably spent more time with Lavellan than any PC except Shepard.  So I've gotten rather attached to her and her well-being.

 

I feel you, and I always get why people love their PCs!  I never get incredibly attached to my PCs, but that's just the way I've always played these kinds of games. Though I DO still like fleshing them out in my head, but I do that because I like feeling like they're just another character within the Dragon Age universe and not an extension of me. Well, unless it comes to saving characters I like, then even if it goes against their roleplayed personality, I'll metagame the heck out of it. 

[S.W.]

Which is why I sometimes think that both of them dying together makes the most sense.

 

Eh, I'm not of the opinion death is a peaceful end, so that's a 'no' in my book. At the very least, it's a waste of two people capable of doing plenty of good and bringing a lot to the world who could learn to be a lot happier once this is all done with.

 

I would like to see them survive it, and try and keep things together. They've committed to keep going this far. It'd be difficult, but I think it'd be worth it.

[Janic99]

I wanted to share you guys this Solavellan art I have been doing.. scanner did not work so this is not the full picture and the quality is awful but I will share it when I get the scanner to work lol 


Solas nipple warning and some blood which you cannot really see thanks to the amazing quality LOL 

*Edit: It also contains a little nudity but I think this is still okay to share like this but it is not that bad. Full one contains more. 

Spoiler

[Eivuwan]

Eh, I'm not of the opinion death is a peaceful end, so that's a 'no' in my book. At the very least, it's a waste of two people capable of doing plenty of good and bringing a lot to the world who could learn to be a lot happier once this is all done with.

 

I would like to see them survive it, and try and keep things together. They've committed to keep going this far. It'd be difficult, but I think it'd be worth it.

 

It makes more sense for characters to die than to survive in this harsh Thedas world. Bioware keeps characters alive for the fans I think and to keep them as an option for the next game.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Of course, I'd rather they just survive together. Lavellan can take him out to travel the world and hopefully someday he can move past things and forgive himself and enjoy living for what it is. If they stop and help people together, all the better, but no more living just to "fix" mistakes or to make up for things he's done. Solas doesn't do well in the redemption cycle. He goes a biiiit overboard. 

 

IMO he hasn't had a real redemption story, or at least, he hasn't completed it yet.

 

Redemption is more than just changing what you do.  It's about changing how you see the world, how you see others and yourself.  In some ways, it's a fundamental shift in who you are, though maybe not a dramatic turnaround in personality or anything.  Snape is a good example; he's still a cranky, sardonic, irascible guy capable of petty cruelty, but when viewed as a redemption story, his fundamental role in the overall story changes, as does the basis of his relationship to most of the major characters.

 

So...Solas still has a ways to go

[Brass_Buckles]

Call me grim, but I'd actually rather see an ending where either Lavellan or Solas dies, than to have both die.  It wouldn't surprise me if Lavellan must die to convince Solas to stop--and it would make sense that such a sacrifice might "wake him up," so to speak.  It would also probably crush his soul that she went so far.  But if you want to stop Solas no matter what, Solas will have to die--and if that happens, Lavellan will probably live.

 

I just don't want to see them dead together.  Uthenera?  Okay, maybe, but I'd prefer that didn't happen, either.  My ideal ending is that, after Lavellan succeeds in stopping Solas's plan, they travel the world together trying to make things better for everyone--ancients and mortals alike.  Bonus points if the Veil comes down by someone else's actions and they are actually wandering the world to try to ease the transition and manage the chaos.

[TheEggCrusher]

It makes more sense for characters to die than to survive in this harsh Thedas world. Bioware keeps characters alive for the fans I think and to keep them as an option for the next game.

Adding to that, imagine how old Solas must be. I think about his character, and I feel bad for how much he has put himself through. I see it as high time for him to die, and Lavellan dying with him would assure that his greatest fear is never realized: he doesn't die alone. 

 

And then their spirits are happy in the afterlife or whatever (in the fade, idk) and they can be together for eternity. 

[S.W.]

It makes more sense for characters to die than to survive in this harsh Thedas world. Bioware keeps characters alive for the fans I think and to keep them as an option for the next game.

 

Narrative sense, yes, you're correct. It makes for a compelling drama.

 

I don't think it'd be best for the characters and their development though. If anything, if Solas dies intentionally, that plays into his nasty guilt complex rather than attempting to tear it down. He gets to martyr himself, rather than learning how to deal with and move on from his past mistakes and missteps properly.

 

It's rare we get to see a fictional representation of a relationship going under a lot of strain. It's even rarer we get to see people overcome that. I would like to see the two of them have the option to redeem themselves and live through it because it'd be good for the development of characters, and it's a theme we see more rarely.