153434 réponses à ce sujet

[LilithMB]

Which is why I sometimes think that both of them dying together makes the most sense.

its the most likely scenario that I can see at the moment. But I hope not. Apart from it being sad for lavellan(or not..could be touching? Spirit lovers forever), thats just small on how sad it would be to lose such a character from the universe. Maybe he will find peace that way though, burden is off his shoulders. Leave it to someone else in Thedas to royally f**k things up or "fix" things....(because there will be quite a few willing, my surviving Hawke will probably explode something)

But I hope there is a way to save him and "his people" because then he's not really saved if he is still living with that much guilt. Maybe make it the hardest possible outcome, but I hope theres a way to do it.

[Eivuwan]

Call me grim, but I'd actually rather see an ending where either Lavellan or Solas dies, than to have both die.  It wouldn't surprise me if Lavellan must die to convince Solas to stop--and it would make sense that such a sacrifice might "wake him up," so to speak.  It would also probably crush his soul that she went so far.  But if you want to stop Solas no matter what, Solas will have to die--and if that happens, Lavellan will probably live.

 

I just don't want to see them dead together.  Uthenera?  Okay, maybe, but I'd prefer that didn't happen, either.  My ideal ending is that, after Lavellan succeeds in stopping Solas's plan, they travel the world together trying to make things better for everyone--ancients and mortals alike.  Bonus points if the Veil comes down by someone else's actions and they are actually wandering the world to try to ease the transition and manage the chaos.

 

At first I thought that was super mean, but then I realize that Solas was planning to let her die in a couple of years anyway. I don't think her dying as a sacrifice would mean much in this case.

[MayriyaNoori]

I know a lot of people like the 'uthenera together' possibility...but can modern elves enter uthenera?

 

It would be cool if they can.

[RynJ]

IMO he hasn't had a real redemption story, or at least, he hasn't completed it yet.

 

Redemption is more than just changing what you do.  It's about changing how you see the world, how you see others and yourself.  In some ways, it's a fundamental shift in who you are, though maybe not a dramatic turnaround in personality or anything.  Snape is a good example; he's still a cranky, sardonic, irascible guy capable of petty cruelty, but when viewed as a redemption story, his fundamental role in the overall story changes, as does the basis of his relationship to most of the major characters.

 

So...Solas still has a ways to go

 

Well that's not just your opinion, it's fact! I just think that Solas can never make up for the things he's done, and trying to do so just leads him to doing not so great things. He needs to learn to accept the modern world for what it is, understand that the people in it deserve to live, and just let things go. That would be his "redemption", I suppose.

 

If he wants to do things within that world to help make things better, like teach other elves what he knows, all the more power to him! But like I said, he'd need to learn not to go overboard with it because that's his first instinct.   I don't think Solas would be able to ever just sit idly by, he's just not that kind of guy. He's a (often destructively misguided) helper! So, helping people with Lavellan around to support him but reign him in when necessary would be ideal. 

 

On another note, I've been thinking about Spirit Cole and the possibility that he's going off to help Solas. Do you think he'd be that relentless, painfully supportive angel on Solas' shoulder? I think having someone constantly remind Solas that he isn't a bad person, that he doesn't have to do this to earn forgiveness, that he didn't do absolute wrong, that this world is worthy, and that he has people out there that care about him and want to save him would be absolute torment for Solas in this time! 

[Eivuwan]

Narrative sense, yes, you're correct. It makes for a compelling drama.

 

I don't think it'd be best for the characters and their development though. If anything, if Solas dies intentionally, that plays into his nasty guilt complex rather than attempting to tear it down. He gets to martyr himself, rather than learning how to deal with and move on from his past mistakes and missteps properly.

 

It's rare we get to see a fictional representation of a relationship going under a lot of strain. It's even rarer we get to see people overcome that. I would like to see the two of them have the option to redeem themselves and live through it because it'd be good for the development of characters, and it's a theme we see more rarely.

 

That is very true and it will make a compelling relationship lesson. But then you can't really compare this to a real life relationship because Solas' actions are so extreme.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Well that's not just your opinion, it's fact! I just think that Solas can never make up for the things he's done, and trying to do so just leads him to doing not so great things. He needs to learn to accept the modern world for what it is, understand that the people in it deserve to live, and just let things go. That would be his "redemption", I suppose.

 

If he wants to do things within that world to help make things better, like teach other elves what he knows, all the more power to him! But like I said, he'd need to learn not to go overboard with it because that's his first instinct. 

 

Agreed.  I don't think he needs to give up on changing the world for the better.  He just needs to understand that changing the world is 1) not his sole responsibility and 2) more complicated than flipping a switch on the Veil

 

And I would really like for him to partially succeed.  Maybe the Crossroads rejoin the Fade and become a refuge for the ancient elvhen, or maybe there's a way to more carefully integrate magic back into the world.  Because I think Morrigan and Flemeth are right; something is fundamentally broken about Thedas, beyond just the ancient elves.

[Brass_Buckles]

Adding to that, imagine how old Solas must be. I think about his character, and I feel bad for how much he has put himself through. I see it as high time for him to die, and Lavellan dying with him would assure that his greatest fear is never realized: he doesn't die alone. 

 

And then their spirits are happy in the afterlife or whatever (in the fade, idk) and they can be together for eternity. 

 

Solas may be very old, but to me it's not poetic that Lavellan, who is comparatively quite young (even if she's 80, that's young compared to Solas) and who could achieve immortality if the Veil is removed, should die with him.  And "dying alone" does not necessarily mean someone else must die with you.  It only means that you don't have to die as the last of your kind, or die with no one by your side.  I just don't see anything beautiful in them both dying.  There's no redemption for Solas, and Lavellan effectively gets punished for doing the right thing (trying to stop him).

 

We don't know precisely what the afterlife in Thedas is comprised of, either, so dying together doesn't mean a happy ending in the afterlife.  In fact resurrection appears to be a thing.  Spirits and souls may be the same thing, but a spirit can be destroyed during its rebirth, or it may simply not be at all the same as it was.  In that respect, death (and therefore forgetting their lives and connection to one another) for both of them is probably the worst and saddest thing that could happen.  Spirits are also mostly asexual, so no "lovers in the Fade," unless they were becoming mortal/preparing to embody again.

 

Again, I would prefer if only one of them died, or even better if neither of them died.  But I repeat, Lavellan (or even a friended Inquisitor) dying to redeem Solas may be a thing that we see.  I could see her intervening with a spell or something and winding up killed as a result, dying in Solas's arms.  He stops with his plan and then proceeds to live his life as he feels she would have wanted.  Alternatively, the Inquisitor decides that killing Solas is the only way to stop him, and if romanced, Solas ends up dying in her arms, perhaps with a final apology.  Lavellan then decides what to do with her own remaining life.

 

I prefer that they both live, though.  It doesn't necessarily have to be a sweet, sappy, happy ending.  In fact it probably won't be, because more than likely Solas will come very close to achieving his goal.  And, if the in-game prophesies are correct, the Veil will come down even though we do stop him.  There might be a suspicion there that he carried the plan out anyway.  There will almost certainly be a lot of pain between them because even though Lavellan may love Solas, he has done and said a lot of things to hurt her.  There would be a lot of healing needed for both of them.  Maybe Cole could help.  Maybe not.

[_Lucinia]

Guys I think I need an intervention.  I think this is a cry for help!  I have a few PTs on the go, I'm almost at the end on one of my Adaar's, and I love her, I really do.  I have a Cass romancing Trev that's been stuck in limbo for a while now. 

 

So what do I end up doing last night?  Yup I made another mage Lavellan.  I even made a horrendously bad world state for her to deter me from actually playing it.  Warden died killing the archdemon that was romancing Leliana and killed her because she poisoned the ashes.  Stabbed Morrigan in Witch Hunt.  Yeah lotsa dead people.  It's a terrible world state. 

 

Introducing Anahi Lavellan.  I tried to make her look a bit darker to reflect the fact that she's got a pretty evil world state to live in.  But she came out looking more like all of my other elves; smooth skin, young, and pretty.  *sigh*  I have a problem.

 

Spoiler

 

Poor thing is more than likely heading for heartbreak.  Yet another Lavellan sacrificed on the altar to Solas.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Poor thing is more than likely heading for heartbreak.  Yet another Lavellan sacrificed on the altar to Solas.

 

You could always just keep making Lavellans and not playing them  Though then your Keep list of heroes would explode.

 

I've told myself I am not allowed to restart Lavellan until I finish Adaar.  Once I get momentum going on a playthrough, any playthrough, I usually wind up finishing it.

[TheEggCrusher]

That is very true and it will make a compelling relationship lesson. But then you can't really compare this to a real life relationship because Solas' actions are so extreme.

He really is an anomaly. I already spend hours trying to comprehend him as a character, since there is so much of him to be understood. What's it like to be immortal? What's it like to be the one person who destroyed their world? What's it like to be the one person who can bring it back? What's it like to fall in love with a person who you doomed and know, to some extent, must die by what you must do? 

 

There are so many layers to him, and each is so deep and extreme. Discrediting those would be the same as simplifying his character. Whatever ending he has, it will have to be befitting of all his dichotomies, to some extent, and no simple happy ending can do that. It will also probably be extremely sad and seemingly cliché, but then again, that's how most people already view him as anyways. 

[Tess]

So... I let my Lavellan drink from the Well for my cannon playthrough. Solas jumps on me that he begged me not to drink - uhm, might've been staring into Sorrow's eyes too deeply, but I don't recall any begging there. Alas, it's done.

Been postponing it for some time. (And honestly, the story seems to be a bit more epic that way. Ha!)

 

Anyway, so. Since she's bound to Mythal, and Mythal trasfers whatever to Solas, does that mean she's eternally enslaved to... Solas?!

 

 

***

Crestwood for Fen'Inan

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

And that "Oh I gotta go," look.

[figment_]

Every time I see these posts talking about how "Everyone will die," I can't help but hear Felix's voice in my head saying "Everyone dies, father."

 

Not to trivialize anything that's being posted here or anyone's opinions, honestly...

 

Aside from the surviving ancient immortals, everyone in post-veil Thedas in it's current state will die sooner rather than later, from an immortal's perspective, of course...Still, I think Solas is just being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically about the possible consequences of removing the veil and the magic coming back. The current "world must die", figuratively speaking, to elicit any kind of permanent change. Regardless of who removes the veil, Solas will still feel responsible for the consequences because he created it in the first place (to save the world.) It's cause and effect...remember that "the healer has the bloodiest hands", I can imagine him feeling responsible for each and every death that possibly occurs in the aftermath, even if he is in no way directly responsible...

 

 

Go Team Optimism!!!

[NeverlandHunter]

 

If it doesn't kill her, just imagine Solas's reaction after you just stopped him from doing the same thing.  Storywise, it would be deliciously dramatic.  But from my perspective, I'd be freaking out like:  OMG THAT DIDN'T JUST HAPPEN POOR SOLAS etc.

Call me grim, but I'd actually rather see an ending where either Lavellan or Solas dies, than to have both die.  It wouldn't surprise me if Lavellan must die to convince Solas to stop--and it would make sense that such a sacrifice might "wake him up," so to speak.  It would also probably crush his soul that she went so far.  But if you want to stop Solas no matter what, Solas will have to die--and if that happens, Lavellan will probably live.

 

I just don't want to see them dead together.  Uthenera?  Okay, maybe, but I'd prefer that didn't happen, either.  My ideal ending is that, after Lavellan succeeds in stopping Solas's plan, they travel the world together trying to make things better for everyone--ancients and mortals alike.  Bonus points if the Veil comes down by someone else's actions and they are actually wandering the world to try to ease the transition and manage the chaos.

If I was reading a book I think I'd hope for Lavellan to die so she could be a slap to the face for Solas, and maybe her death would cause him to change his plans.

As it is, Lavellan is, at least partially, my creation. I want her to live and I want her to happy. Solas dying by her hands would also be wonderfully dramatic, and again if this was a book I'd be all on board for that ending (well maybe not all on board, slightly less on board because it's just too cruel to do that to a character that's already gone through so much) but I've played Lavellan. I've headcanoned her personality-- her thoughts and feelings and her joys and regrets. I want her to be happy and that happiness relies on Solas living and redeeming himself.

[Jayla]

Any idea that the Inquisitor needs to die to help bring Solas back needs to be considered from a high- approval standpoint too.

 

It's all very romantic to consider the idea of Lavellan dying to snap him out of it, but would your Inquisitor who's only his friend do the same? Obviously that's down to you as an individual, but I don't think many would. I know I wouldn't. I've done some awful things to make sure my PCs live (Shepard, Warden, and Hawke to say the least), I don't think I'd put Solas ahead for a high approval Quizzy. A romanced Lavellan on the other hand... I dunno, we'll have to see. xD

[Sable Rhapsody]

So... I let my Lavellan drink from the Well for my cannon playthrough. Solas jumps on me that he begged me not to drink - uhm, might've been staring into Sorrow's eyes too deeply, but I don't recall any begging there. Alas, it's done.

 

Weekes confirmed that it was an oversight, but not important to the overall story.  Solas was supposed to say something at the Well, but the dialogue's just not there.  

[TheEggCrusher]

Solas may be very old, but to me it's not poetic that Lavellan, who is comparatively quite young (even if she's 80, that's young compared to Solas) and who could achieve immortality if the Veil is removed, should die with him.  And "dying alone" does not necessarily mean someone else must die with you.  It only means that you don't have to die as the last of your kind, or die with no one by your side.  I just don't see anything beautiful in them both dying.  There's no redemption for Solas, and Lavellan effectively gets punished for doing the right thing (trying to stop him).

 

We don't know precisely what the afterlife in Thedas is comprised of, either, so dying together doesn't mean a happy ending in the afterlife.  In fact resurrection appears to be a thing.  Spirits and souls may be the same thing, but a spirit can be destroyed during its rebirth, or it may simply not be at all the same as it was.  In that respect, death (and therefore forgetting their lives and connection to one another) for both of them is probably the worst and saddest thing that could happen.  Spirits are also mostly asexual, so no "lovers in the Fade," unless they were becoming mortal/preparing to embody again.

 

Again, I would prefer if only one of them died, or even better if neither of them died.  But I repeat, Lavellan (or even a friended Inquisitor) dying to redeem Solas may be a thing that we see.  I could see her intervening with a spell or something and winding up killed as a result, dying in Solas's arms.  He stops with his plan and then proceeds to live his life as he feels she would have wanted.  Alternatively, the Inquisitor decides that killing Solas is the only way to stop him, and if romanced, Solas ends up dying in her arms, perhaps with a final apology.  Lavellan then decides what to do with her own remaining life.

 

I prefer that they both live, though.  It doesn't necessarily have to be a sweet, sappy, happy ending.  In fact it probably won't be, because more than likely Solas will come very close to achieving his goal.  And, if the in-game prophesies are correct, the Veil will come down even though we do stop him.  There might be a suspicion there that he carried the plan out anyway.  There will almost certainly be a lot of pain between them because even though Lavellan may love Solas, he has done and said a lot of things to hurt her.  There would be a lot of healing needed for both of them.  Maybe Cole could help.  Maybe not.

I'm not saying it would be a nice thing for her to die for/with him, that's just how I see the story going, and I'm trying to make do with what will most likely happen. 

 

It's emotional and universal enough that them both dying, as an ending, would address both of their story problems. There would be no loose ends and it wouldn't be lacking in either realism or emotion. It seems to be the most likely ending, and I'm happy for it after thinking about what it means and represents story-wise. 

[Brass_Buckles]

Every time I see these posts talking about how "Everyone will die," I can't help but hear Felix's voice in my head saying "Everyone dies, father."

 

Not to trivialize anything that's being posted here or anyone's opinions, honestly...

 

Aside from the surviving ancient immortals, everyone in post-veil Thedas in it's current state will die sooner rather than later, from an immortal's perspective, of course...Still, I think Solas is just being grim and fatalistic and speaking metaphorically about the possible consequences of removing the veil and the magic coming back. The current "world must die", figuratively speaking, to elicit any kind of permanent change. Regardless of who removes the veil, Solas will still feel responsible for the consequences because he created it in the first place (to save the world.) It's cause and effect...remember that "the healer has the bloodiest hands", I can imagine him feeling responsible for each and every death that possibly occurs in the aftermath, even if he is in no way directly responsible...

 

 

Go Team Optimism!!!

 

You have a point.

 

But that point is all the more reason I think if you choose to redeem him, Solas and Lavellan both have to survive--because in this case, redemption would be trying to clean up the mess he's indirectly responsible for, having created the Veil in the first place and then even planned to take it back down (even though he chose not to).

[Eurowande]

So... I let my Lavellan drink from the Well for my cannon playthrough. Solas jumps on me that he begged me not to drink - uhm, might've been staring into Sorrow's eyes too deeply, but I don't recall any begging there. Alas, it's done.

Been postponing it for some time. (And honestly, the story seems to be a bit more epic that way. Ha!)

 

Anyway, so. Since she's bound to Mythal, and Mythal trasfers whatever to Solas, does that mean she's eternally enslaved to... Solas?!

 

 

***

Crestwood for Fen'Inan

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

And that "Oh I gotta go," look.

 

So... I let my Lavellan drink from the Well for my cannon playthrough. Solas jumps on me that he begged me not to drink - uhm, might've been staring into Sorrow's eyes too deeply, but I don't recall any begging there. Alas, it's done.

Been postponing it for some time. (And honestly, the story seems to be a bit more epic that way. Ha!)

 

Anyway, so. Since she's bound to Mythal, and Mythal trasfers whatever to Solas, does that mean she's eternally enslaved to... Solas?!

 

 

***

Crestwood for Fen'Inan

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

And that "Oh I gotta go," look.

I hate you, here i was thinking im going to sleep , after i had few beers reading Solas franfics , and i was like its time to sleep... then  i saw this ...***** it im ust gonna buy more beer , its gonna be a long night

[Eivuwan]

I hate you, here i was thinking im going to sleep , after i had few beers reading Solas franfics , and i was like its time to sleep... then  i saw this ...***** it im ust gonna buy more beer , its gonna be a long night

 

Doesn't beer make people sleepy?

[Brass_Buckles]

I'm not saying it would be a nice thing for her to die for/with him, that's just how I see the story going, and I'm trying to make do with what will most likely happen. 

 

It's emotional and universal enough that them both dying, as an ending, would address both of their story problems. There would be no loose ends and it wouldn't be lacking in either realism or emotion. It seems to be the most likely ending, and I'm happy for it after thinking about what it means and represents story-wise. 

 

It wouldn't make me happy at all, and I think a lot of people wouldn't find it happy.

 

As I said, "Fade-lovers" is not going to be a thing.  The best that can be hoped for is resurrection or re-embodiment if both of them die; elves, at least, seem to be spirits at the heart of it.  If one of them lives, at least that one can move forward and live his or her life.  If both die, they may never meet again.  Or, they may meet, but not remember anything and not feel that same draw to one another.

 

If the story goes that way, that's the way it goes.  But that doesn't mean it has to be something I want, or like, or am even slightly okay with.  I think it would be more compelling for them to both live and deal with their issues than to die.  Their being dead is a cop-out, in my opinion.  Death is an easy way to end their problems.  In terms of game development, it makes sense because they don't need to be brought back, but in terms of story, the two of them dying together doesn't actually do much besides end their story arc.  It doesn't allow Solas to redeem himself, not really--not even if he dies to prevent the Veil being removed.  And it punishes Lavellan for working to save Thedas, and working to save Solas--that's an unsatisfying ending for the player if their only "reward" for the struggle is death.  I'm aware others can and do see it differently.  This is my take on it.

 

I repeat:  My preference is that both live and actually have to deal with their problems.  But even just one or the other dying is much better than both dying.  I am especially not okay with both dying when it involves my "nice" Lavellan, who has done a lot of good for the world and does not deserve that kind of ending.  And if just one of them dies, and it's my Lavellan, at least that's a choice I made and not something arbitrarily decided for me.

[wildannie]

I really would rather they didn't have Solas die,  for me it would just be soooo... obvious?.  I'll actually be pretty bummed if the next game (or any single game) plays out with the the actual sole aim being to stop Solas, I feel like we know too much already.  

It would be much more interesting to me if there is another intervention (Escaped Evanuris, Titan trouble or something), that makes Solas' plans impossible (or impossible at that time), so he doesn't go through with it.  Not because he's had a change of heart but because he can't.  Dealing with/witnessing that new threat could change his heart or offer a different solution he had not considered.  

I don't want Lavellan to die either, she loves him and would die to defend him if he was on the side of good, but he's not so she won't (unless Bioware insist) 

[Eivuwan]

It wouldn't make me happy at all, and I think a lot of people wouldn't find it happy.

 

As I said, "Fade-lovers" is not going to be a thing.  The best that can be hoped for is resurrection or re-embodiment if both of them die; elves, at least, seem to be spirits at the heart of it.  If one of them lives, at least that one can move forward and live his or her life.  If both die, they may never meet again.  Or, they may meet, but not remember anything and not feel that same draw to one another.

 

If the story goes that way, that's the way it goes.  But that doesn't mean it has to be something I want, or like, or am even slightly okay with.  I think it would be more compelling for them to both live and deal with their issues than to die.  Their being dead is a cop-out, in my opinion.  Death is an easy way to end their problems.  In terms of game development, it makes sense because they don't need to be brought back, but in terms of story, the two of them dying together doesn't actually do much besides end their story arc.  It doesn't allow Solas to redeem himself, not really--not even if he dies to prevent the Veil being removed.  And it punishes Lavellan for working to save Thedas, and working to save Solas--that's an unsatisfying ending for the player if their only "reward" for the struggle is death.  I'm aware others can and do see it differently.  This is my take on it.

 

I repeat:  My preference is that both live and actually have to deal with their problems.  But even just one or the other dying is much better than both dying.  I am especially not okay with both dying when it involves my "nice" Lavellan, who has done a lot of good for the world and does not deserve that kind of ending.  And if just one of them dies, and it's my Lavellan, at least that's a choice I made and not something arbitrarily decided for me.

 

When I was talking about them both dying, I was thinking that it would be the player's choice.

[Eurowande]

Doesn't beer make people sleepy?

Yes, but if you have few beers  you dont feel sleepy anymore.

[LilithMB]

Any idea that the Inquisitor needs to die to help bring Solas back needs to be considered from a high- approval standpoint too.

 

It's all very romantic to consider the idea of Lavellan dying to snap him out of it, but would your Inquisitor who's only his friend do the same? Obviously that's down to you as an individual, but I don't think many would. I know I wouldn't. I've done some awful things to make sure my PCs live (Shepard, Warden, and Hawke to say the least), I don't think I'd put Solas ahead for a high approval Quizzy. A romanced Lavellan on the other hand... I dunno, we'll have to see. xD

HA! That is a perfect example right there. I dont blame people for thinking solas is revolting. Think what you will, what he plans isnt pretty. But how many of those people that think he is a monster for wanting to save his people also completely wiped out the geth (tranquil non-people) so that they could get the shep breath scene at the end of the game? I know I did...even with legions sacrifice and how much danm feels that gave me. One of my fave characters. And how much I think that that unit does have a soul. And EDI...I am a monster too. Oh no...

[TheEggCrusher]

When I was talking about them both dying, I was thinking that it would be the player's choice.

Yup. Agreed. I'm not saying Lavellan has to die, but rather, it would be the "romantic" option. 

 

Also, you guys, I know I say depressing things, but I'm really not trying to p*ss anyone off. I'm blatant and straightforward, so I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. 

 

They're just my opinions. I'm not trying to force them on anyone.