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[midnight tea]

I'll argue that point. Solas is very well aware that what he is doing is not right. He just feels he has no choice, and if compulsion theories are right he really doesn't. He'll be the first to tell you what he's doing isn't good, and is also why he doesn't let you join him. He is not at all hiding away from the truth and reality of what he is planning to do. It's one reason I can respect him as a character even as I want to smack him for the grim and fatalistic stuff. If you're going to do something, you own it and don't make excuses. Don't hide from it. Whatever else the idiot is doing, he is not doing that.

 

It's also one big reason the idea he's under a geas or otherwise compelled to what he is doing makes me feel a bit... ehhh. It's like an easy out for him, but I trust Weekes and the other writers enough to not make it cheap if it is the case.

 

Personally I think the only "compulsion" he feels is one of the guilt and need to repair what he thinks he's broken, no matter how necessary it was at that time. Of course, that doesn't really rule out the possibility that someone might still steer and deepen this tremendous feelings of guilt to push him into direction they want - personally however I don't think he's under geas. He might have been at some point, but he's likely too strong or Mythal might have released him herself.

 

Also - if we drink from the Well and ask Mythal "Am I now your servant?" she actually gives Inky a strangely sad puppy look and asks "Is this is how you see yourself: a servant?". Hmmm...

[Uirebhiril]

But if he is, one thing that would make it less cheap is that he doesn't seem to realize it. He claims he is no agent but his own. He tells you if you drink that everything you do whether you know it or not would be for Mythal.

 

He was a rebel and a freedom fighter. Everything he did, he did it for the freedom of his people. And in the end it turns out he himself was never truly free. That's just tragic. 

 

This I could get behind. Beautiful and tragic and just so much pain. Betrayal even. That would definitely equal up to what Weekes said about the story of Solas not being a happy one.

[NeverlandHunter]

I sort of get what you're saying Keeva about Solas being worst. It's not that he doesn't know what he's doing is wrong-- he does, but he keeps on doing it anyway. He thinks what he's doing is necessary and for the greater good (of the Elvhen), that is what makes what he's doing so much worst.

Solas you give me so many conflicting feelings.

You, Rainer, and the arsehole Anders should start a group together.

[GoldenGail3]

That's the thing... he wasn't lying about his identity in a way Blackwall does. Solas is his actual name. He's an actual Fade nerd.
 
He also directly addressed his major grievance he had with Blackwall in banter - it wasn't the false identity, it wasn't even that he's made a heavy sacrifice in times of war, as sometimes those are inevitable - it was the fact that Rainier did all that for money and status; and when he tried to atone, he took a mantle of another, in a way never really owing up for what he did (until Inquisitor gave him a chance to actually do that).
 
Also - isn't Warden established in canon to be far away from any other Warden, searching for the cure for the Calling?

He ain't telling you he's the Dread Wolf, a eleven God of rebellion. Nor does he tell Lavellen (yes, I know he nearly tells her...but he doesn't). If Solas succeeds at what's he doing, he'll also never really own up to what's he's about to do. It's two sides of the same coin... Sadly.

[Garnet]

Small art break!

 

Spoiler

By trasigpenna

Solavellan (blood warning)

Spoiler

by almighty p

[drosophila]

Yeah it's hard to really explain it. Solas has so many layers to him, but that pretty much sums it up. I still have faith but sometimes I feel like ending him too.

 

That would be easier, for you and for him. 

[midnight tea]

So much this.

 

 

I prefer if he's not under geas.

 

But if he is, one thing that would make it less cheap is that he doesn't seem to realize it. He claims he is no agent but his own. He tells you if you drink that everything you do whether you know it or not would be for Mythal.

 

He was a rebel and a freedom fighter. Everything he did, he did it for the freedom of his people. And in the end it turns out he himself was never truly free. That's just tragic. 

 

LOL, I actually pointed out that possible irony months before Trespasser, in this thread or the other

 

Still, geas or not, I do indeed don't see him as truly free - he does what he thinks needs to be done; out of duty, necessity or driven by plea of others.

 

In that sense he's a prisoner of fate and expectations put on him, just like Inquisitor is, in many respects. They don't really live for themselves anymore - they live for  the others.

 

Cole even points that out to approved Quizzies: "All the fears you fight, hopes you carry - you are theirs." It's actually a pretty major theme in Inquisition.

[drosophila]

LOL, I actually pointed out that possible irony months before Trespasser, in this thread or the other

 

Still, geas or not, I do indeed don't see him as truly free - he does what he thinks needs to be done; out of duty, necessity or driven by plea of others.

 

In that sense he's a prisoner of fate and expectations put on him, just like Inquisitor is, in many respects. They don't really live for themselves anymore - they live for  the others.

 

Cole even points that out to approved Quizzies: "All the fears you fight, hopes you carry - you are theirs." It's actually a pretty major theme in Inquisition.

 

Sorry if I've missed. (If it was months before Tresspasser though, I might've not been around yet.)

 

Yes, it's a major theme, and it ties very nicely to the theme of power - the more you have, the more you are bound by it. The Well's a great metaphore for this. Even a**quizitors can't jsut go around doing whatever they want. Neither can Celene and others who play the Game. 

[FernRain]

That makes me want to smack him pretty damn hard with my staff.

 

Thom needed an epic b*tch-slap to get over himself and stop hiding behind another man's glory so he could play at being noble and good himself.

 
All this talk of slapping reminds me of one of my favorite moments in the game (I made a gif):
 

 

Clarel slap was the best.

[Eivuwan]

I'm just thinking. If the story was written from a Chinese fantasy perspective, Solas would be redeemed by sacrificing himself. And instead of dying, he will lose all his powers and turn into a little wolf. lmao.

 

Edit: And Lavellan will wait 1000 years for him to gain spiritual energy to turn back into into elf form.

[Mims]

Yeah, I don't think he's under a gaes personally. I think Mythal can absolutely manipulate him [she's good at doing that to everyone], but I don't think he's actually under some magical compulsion to do what he's doing. He seems too self aware- and a capable mage in his own right. I would think if he were under a spell, he would be able to find some way to circumvent it.

 

 But I also wouldn't be surprised if he half hopes the Inquisitor will be able to stop/kill him. It would be the best way out- he could die thinking that he's done all he can for his people, but escape the fate of having become a monster for a second time. 

[midnight tea]

He ain't telling you he's the Dread Wolf, a eleven God of rebellion. Nor does he tell Lavellen (yes, I know he nearly tells her...but he doesn't). If Solas succeeds at what's he doing, he'll also never really own up to what's he's about to do. It's two sides of the same coin... Sadly.

 

Yes, but he's telling that not to hide his shame, but to accomplish what he thinks is necessary. We cans sense that he suffers greatly when he tells Lavellan the truth, with trembling, fearful, but yet resigned "And now you know" as if he was ashamed that he was hiding it from her, or that she now knows the full extent of who he is, or what's about to transpire, but his motives for that aren't really motivated by what is essentially selfishness.

 

Also - why do you think that Solas won't be owning up to what he's doing? You base that assumption on what exactly?

Because from what he said to Cole and Lavellan (when he says romanced one she can't go with him) he seems to be expecting to pay for what he's doing possibly for all of eternity (and that's aside from agonizing over what has to be done, seeing himself turning into everything he hates or denying himself being with a woman he loves, even if it's mainly motivated by concerns of her own safety).

[Uirebhiril]

 But I also wouldn't be surprised if he half hopes the Inquisitor will be able to stop/kill him. It would be the best way out- he could die thinking that he's done all he can for his people, but escape the fate of having become a monster for a second time. 

 

I can see him hoping to be stopped, but the idea that he hopes to die so he can give up is just a cop-out and would sour me a bit. I like him despite everything because he IS owning up to what he is doing, as much as it's killing him. I don't want to see him lie down and die until he makes the choice to.

[Jayla]

 
All this talk of slapping reminds me of one of my favorite moments in the game (I made a gif):
 

 

Clarel slap was the best.

 

Can I just lament how sad I was about how short this woman's presence was in the game? She was great, I really wanted to see more of her. She got a great death, but if she was still kicking around I would have kept the Wardens just to see how we'd go about redeeming her.

[Sable Rhapsody]

LOL, I actually pointed out that possible irony months before Trespasser, in this thread or the other

 

Still, geas or not, I do indeed don't see him as truly free - he does what he thinks needs to be done; out of duty, necessity or driven by plea of others.

 

In that sense he's a prisoner of fate and expectations put on him, just like Inquisitor is, in many respects. They don't really live for themselves anymore - they live for  the others.

 

Cole even points that out to approved Quizzies: "All the fears you fight, hopes you carry - you are theirs." It's actually a pretty major theme in Inquisition.

 

Yeah, and like the faith theme, how it affects quizzy depends on how you choose to play it.

 

My Lavellan never wanted all the responsibility and power that came with being Inquisitor, and she especially hated being an unwitting religious icon.  But defending the people of Thedas opened her eyes.  She was theirs, and she came to empathize with everyone she was defending.  Elves, dwarves, humans, mages, templars...it stopped mattering to her.  So while the burden of power was a heavy one, and she was glad to stop being Inquisitor after Trespasser, I think it helped her do a lot of growing as a person.

 

I feel like in some ways, Solas's burden had the opposite effect on him.  It narrowed his focus to his people, his mistakes, his duty.  It made it hard for him to see beyond all that, and when he finally could through friendship/romanced quizzy, he couldn't find any way to reinterpret his duty to include modern Thedas too.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Can I just lament how sad I was about how short this woman's presence was in the game? She was great, I really wanted to see more of her. She got a great death, but if she was still kicking around I would have kept the Wardens just to see how we'd go about redeeming her.

 

If the rest of the Orlesian Wardens had half the badass that Clarel does, I would have felt a lot worse about kicking them out of the country.

[RynJ]

He ain't telling you he's the Dread Wolf, a eleven God of rebellion. Nor does he tell Lavellen (yes, I know he nearly tells her...but he doesn't). If Solas succeeds at what's he doing, he'll also never really own up to what's he's about to do. It's two sides of the same coin... Sadly.

 

Yeah but....why would he do that during the base game? That's not about cowardice like Blackwall. That's about an inability to do what he set out to do if he tells the Inquisitor who he is and what he plans. And what he's trying to do is very important to him. Of course it is. He's trying to restore his people (and, I think, free people who are trapped and suffering).

 

His level of honesty with you is astounding all things considered. He all but told you the truth in multiple ways, just never outright. 

 

I think Solas has pretty much owned up to what he's doing. At no point during Trespasser did he sugarcoat his plans. Hell, even though people say he's being arrogant and thinking he's doing right, he makes it pretty clear in my view that he knows what he's doing is wrong. He knows that he's not a good person. But he's going to do it anyways, because fixing his mistake and restoring what once was matters more to him than the current world. And again, of course it does. Our job is to snap him out of that and make him realize that he won't really be doing better by anyone (unless there really are people trapped and suffering, in which case wow it would suck to just leave them there. I hope we can help them somehow!) 

[drosophila]

I can see him hoping to be stopped, but the idea that he hopes to die so he can give up is just a cop-out and would sour me a bit. I like him despite everything because he IS owning up to what he is doing, as much as it's killing him. I don't want to see him lie down and die until he makes the choice to.

 

So much this as well. If he hopes to die, I think he recognizes it as simply wishful thinking on his part. From his point of view, he hasn't earned his death, no matter how much he's suffered, because he hasn't 'fixed' his mistake. From party banter with Varric it's clear that he does not see giving up and letting everything end with him a good option. 

[S.W.]

I'm just thinking. If the story was written from a Chinese fantasy perspective, Solas would be redeemed by sacrificing himself. And instead of dying, he will lose all his powers and turn into a little wolf. lmao.

 

Edit: And Lavellan will wait 1000 years for him to gain spiritual energy to turn back into into elf form.

 

Lol, that actually doesn't sound too bad, all things considered. I really like the idea of a lover waiting for another, beyond the boundaries of time and space - as long as it doesn't make the 'waiting' lover passive in the process.

 

I always wanted to write something based on Lavellan's mortality and how her spirit would refuse - refuse being the operative word here, it's not easy - to leave the fade until he was there with him. That way, he wouldn't have to die alone

[midnight tea]

Sorry if I've missed. (If it was months before Tresspasser though, I might've not been around yet.)

 

Yes, it's a major theme, and it ties very nicely to the theme of power - the more you have, the more you are bound by it. The Well's a great metaphore for this. Even a**quizitors can't jsut go around doing whatever they want. Neither can Celene and others who play the Game. 

 

Haha, no need to be sorry - I'm just amused (and pleased) someone notices that as well

 

And yep - as cliche as it sounds: with great power comes great responsibility. And ironically, the better and more sensitive the person with power put upon, the more bound they are. 

This is also why I think Solas tells Inquisitor that "her/his people" must die - not just mortals, or humans, or elves. They're THEIR people, because they protected them and their world once already (Solas later refers to Mythal protecting HER people, because that's what she did - she cared for them; protected them).

 

Inkys are one of the major champions of Thedas - if not THE champion. In the same way Solas is a champion for the world that is already half-forgotten and on a brink of plunging into oblivion.

 

It's really tragic, especially on a friendship/romance route, if we really think about it. They may be thoroughly similar to another, in terms of personality or role, but the world forces them to fight on opposite sides.

(hopefully there will be some solution to somehow reconcile both in some ways- at least I hope there will be)

 

 

...........And this is exactly why I'd be thoroughly PISSED if all this will be squandered in next DA chapters! Come on Bioware! You've got something really beautiful going on here!