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[drosophila]

Haha, no need to be sorry - I'm just amused (and pleased) someone notices that as well

 

And yep - as cliche as it sounds with great power comes great responsibility. And ironically the better and more sensitive the person with power put upon, the more bound they are. 

This is also why I think Solas tells Inquisitor that "her/his people" must die - not just mortals, or humans, or elves. They're THEIR people, because they protected them and their world once already (Solas later refers to Mythal protecting HER people, because that's what she did - she cared for them; protected them).

 

Inkys are one of the major champions of Thedas - if not THE champion. In the same way Solas is a champion for the world that is already half-forgotten and on a brink of plunging into oblivion.

 

It's really tragic, especially on a friendship/romance route, if we really think about it. They may be thoroughly similar to another, in terms of personality or role, but the world forces them to fight on opposite sides.

(hopefully there will be some solution to somehow reconcile both in some ways- at least I hope it will be)

 

 

...........And this is exactly why I'd be thoroughly PISSED if all this will be squandered in next DA chapters! Come on Bioware! You've got something really beautiful going on here!

 

Yeah, I cannot really think of anything to add to this. I agree with all of this. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

That's why his "I am not a monster" line irks me. He knows what he's doing is wrong, yet he's doing it and thinks that letting people live blissfully unaware of their most likely painful demise is alright? To me that line is more him trying to convince himself he's not and failing.

 

I got the impression that he's trying to convince himself more than you.  That somehow, giving Thedas some respite before pulling the trigger is better than what Corypheus wanted to do.

[RynJ]

That's why his "I am not a monster" line irks me. He knows what he's doing is wrong, yet he's doing it and thinks that letting people live blissfully unaware of their most likely painful demise is alright?

 

His definition of monster is destroying the world and enjoying it, which he doesn't. Though honestly, I feel like he's trying to convince himself that he's not a monster as much as he is you. As of now, he refuses to give up his "duty", but he wants to make sure people suffer as little as possible because it's better than the alternative. Not that saying this would ever come as a comfort to someone in the modern world, which is where the "Gee....thanks....?" feeling comes from.

 

This is all hitting on what I perceive as the heart of Solas' inner struggle. It's glorious!  I will never understand how people hate characters like this.

[Jayla]

My Lavellan never wanted all the responsibility and power that came with being Inquisitor, and she especially hated being an unwitting religious icon.  But defending the people of Thedas opened her eyes.  She was theirs, and she came to empathize with everyone she was defending.  Elves, dwarves, humans, mages, templars...it stopped mattering to her.  So while the burden of power was a heavy one, and she was glad to stop being Inquisitor after Trespasser, I think it helped her do a lot of growing as a person.

 

I feel like in some ways, Solas's burden had the opposite effect on him.  It narrowed his focus to his people, his mistakes, his duty.  It made it hard for him to see beyond all that, and when he finally could through friendship/romanced quizzy, he couldn't find any way to reinterpret his duty to include modern Thedas too.

 

It's sort of ironic in a way, because my girl was like yours in that she didn't want the responsibility of being Inquisitor or a leader of any kind until Dark Future Redcliffe, the nightmares she still suffers from was probably the biggest driving force to her taking her new position by the reigns and giving it all she had to fix things, to make sure that future didn't happen. But my girl refused to let it change her; she never killed where she could help it (recruiting all the bad guys*), and any personal quest that involved killing/sacrificing she firmly put her foot down, no matter how justified.

 

*I hope we get to see some repercussions about how we judged people; like if we didn't outright kill certain people and/or recruited them, it'll come back to bite us on the ass later. I always felt like the judgements in the game sat out like an odd duck and didn't seem to really go anywhere.

[NeverlandHunter]

I'm just thinking. If the story was written from a Chinese fantasy perspective, Solas would be redeemed by sacrificing himself. And instead of dying, he will lose all his powers and turn into a little wolf. lmao.

 

Edit: And Lavellan will wait 1000 years for him to gain spiritual energy to turn back into into elf form.

Thank the Maker it isn't I respect all cultures and their preferences in fiction.

 

Yeah, I don't think he's under a gaes personally. I think Mythal can absolutely manipulate him [she's good at doing that to everyone], but I don't think he's actually under some magical compulsion to do what he's doing. He seems too self aware- and a capable mage in his own right. I would think if he were under a spell, he would be able to find some way to circumvent it.

 

 But I also wouldn't be surprised if he half hopes the Inquisitor will be able to stop/kill him. It would be the best way out- he could die thinking that he's done all he can for his people, but escape the fate of having become a monster for a second time. 

It's sweet drama. Solas thinks he's in control, that he's pulling the strings, but in reality Mythal is the puppet master and we're all just dancing to her madness!

MUAHAHAHA!

 

Some of his dialogue definitely makes it seem like he wants to be stopped. One in particular is something like "I'll prove you wrong" and Solas is like "I hope you do" with a sad smile (if I remember correctly). 

[GoldenGail3]

Yes, but he's telling that not to hide his shame, but to accomplish what he thinks is necessary. We cans sense that he suffers greatly when he tells Lavellan the truth, with trembling, fearful, but yet resigned "And now you know" as if he was ashamed that he was hiding it from her, or that she now knows the full extent of who he is, or what's about to transpire, but his motives for that aren't really motivated by what is essentially selfishness.
 
Also - why do you think that Solas won't be owning up to what he's doing? You base that assumption on what exactly?
Because from what he said to Cole and Lavellan (when he says romanced one she can't go with him) he seems to be expecting to pay for what he's doing possibly for all of eternity (and that's aside from agonizing over what has to be done, seeing himself turning into everything he hates or denying himself being with a woman he loves, even if it's mainly motivated by concerns of her own safety).

He tells you that he'll likely die trying to do what's he going to do (when romanced). And he's doing it out of guilt of his past, which was taking the elves immortaly away from them (when he bound the fade into the Veil...I wish Solas could look to the future, instead of looking to the past. It's saddening to me, to watch as Solas, guilt stricken with his past deeds, does something that he can't take back.

He's being impulsive right now, becuase he's so wracked with guilt, nor does he see Thedass people as people (but with a romanced Solas, he probaly cares more for her people then he lets on, so he hardens himself to do what's he about to).

[Elessara]

This is off the current topic but it has bugged me since I played through the game the first time.

 

We're told over and over that red lyrium is BAD.  Like, all caps BAD.  Don't touch it, don't go near it.  It messes with your head just being near it, it needs to be shielded and avoided.  So why .. why in the Maker's name in Emprise du Lion does the Inquisition *insist* on making camps in the middle of masses of red lyrium.  Like Drakon's Rise camp and the Tower of Bone camp.  Giant spikes of red lyrium every freaking where and we camp RIGHT THERE.  Because ... why?!  WTF is wrong with our people that we have to camp there!  And why can't I, as Inquisitor, tell everyone to stop being dumb-arses and camp somewhere else ... like anywhere else that doesn't have giant spikes of red lyrium every freaking where?!

 

Gah!

 

Ok, rant off.  My current playthrough is in Emprise and I think of this every darn time I'm here lol.

[Uirebhiril]

That's why his "I am not a monster" line irks me. He knows what he's doing is wrong, yet he's doing it and thinks that letting people live blissfully unaware of their most likely painful demise is alright? To me that line is more him trying to convince himself he's not and failing.

 

I took it more as he doesn't see himself as being evil and not caring what others feel. They may not quite be people to him, but they aren't things to step on and discard like I expect the rest of the pantheon saw the lesser people to be. What he is doing IS wrong, but there doesn't need to be suffering on top of that. If he were a monster he wouldn't give a damn who got hurt along the way.

[drosophila]

That's why his "I am not a monster" line irks me. He knows what he's doing is wrong, yet he's doing it and thinks that letting people live blissfully unaware of their most likely painful demise is alright?

 

When he says he's not a monster, I really think he's trying to convince himself as much as he's trying to convince the Inquisitor. 

 

I think what he means is, "I want your people to die in comfort, because that would mean I'm not a monster." 

 

In another dialogue option he makes a point of saying, "I am not Corypheus, I take no joy in this."

 

I think he's really struggling with what he must do, and a part of him sees that he is, in fact, very much like Cory, and he is a monster. But that's just too painful for him to admit, because he's a villain that doesn't have the personality fit for a villain. He cares too much about everyone he hurts. 

 

Edit: haha  'd by everyone while I was getting emotional about this.

[midnight tea]

He tells you that he'll likely die trying to do what's he going to do (when romanced). And he's doing it out of guilt of his past, which was taking the elves immortaly away from them (when he bound the fade into the Veil...I wish Solas could look to the future, instead of looking to the past. It's saddening to me, to watch as Solas, guilt stricken with his past deeds, does something that he can't take back.

He's being impulsive right now, becuase he's so wracked with guilt, nor does he see Thedass people as people (but with a romanced Solas, he probaly cares more for her people then he lets on, so he hardens himself to do what's he about to).

 

Whatever death awaits him, it's likely not going to be literal. He implies to Cole that whatever path he takes, it will be one walked in solitude for all of eternity.

 

Also: while guilt motivates him greatly, he does what he thinks is necessary. We don't know if he actually didn't peek into the future and saw that things are going only in a really bad direction (and why shouldn't they, with the constant threat of endless Blight or other horrors?). He even tells to Varric in one of their banters - the Wardens may be screw-ups, but "they bought us some time". Us - everyone. Including him.

[NeverlandHunter]

That's why his "I am not a monster" line irks me. He knows what he's doing is wrong, yet he's doing it and thinks that letting people live blissfully unaware of their most likely painful demise is alright? To me that line is more him trying to convince himself he's not and failing.

Yeah, that line irked me too! I like how you put it though! Him saying that and that he's not Corypheus...

 

 

Solas: Inquisitor I am not Corypheus I--

 

Inquisitor: You're exactly like him.

 

Solas: I do not pretend to be a god and I do not wish to subjugate people to my will--

 

Inquisitor: You're both mages who were alive and powerful during ancient times who want to destroy the world because you're upset how much it's changed since you woke up. You regret your past mistakes and are angry with the "gods" and you're willing to kill countless people to further your goals. How aren't you alike?

 

Solas: ...I'm a sexy elf.

[Jayla]

This is off the current topic but it has bugged me since I played through the game the first time.

 

We're told over and over that red lyrium is BAD.  Like, all caps BAD.  Don't touch it, don't go near it.  It messes with your head just being near it, it needs to be shielded and avoided.  So why .. why in the Maker's name in Emprise du Lion does the Inquisition *insist* on making camps in the middle of masses of red lyrium.  Like Drakon's Rise camp and the Tower of Bone camp.  Giant spikes of red lyrium every freaking where and we camp RIGHT THERE.  Because ... why?!  WTF is wrong with our people that we have to camp there!  And why can't I, as Inquisitor, tell everyone to stop being dumb-arses and camp somewhere else ... like anywhere else that doesn't have giant spikes of red lyrium every freaking where?!

 

Gah!

 

Ok, rant off.  My current playthrough is in Emprise and I think of this every darn time I'm here lol.

 

Legitimate rant is legitimate. I rushed my canon playthrough to get it ready for Trespasser but still took the time to complete everything and explore everywhere, but I think Emprise du Lion is still partially unfinished (or at least largely unexplored). My least favourite level. Urgh, don't make me go back there.

 

I'm worried about Red Lyrium in all honesty. There's a bit of dialogue (in Emprise for that matter!) with people talking about getting it out of the ground and away, and they talk about how even minute traces of it will corrupt anything around it, even the insects and worms and soil, to grow more. That makes it sound like it'll be nearly impossible to wipe out. I don't want to worry about logistics like I did with Mass Effect, but if they handwave it away in the next game (or worse, never make mention of it again!) then I might be a little peeved.

[GoldenGail3]

Whatever death awaits him, it's likely not going to be literal. He implies to Cole that whatever path he takes, it will be one walked in solitude for all of eternity.
 
Also: while guilt motivates him greatly, he does what he thinks it's necessary. We don't know if he actually didn't peek into the future and saw that things are going only in a really bad direction (and why shouldn't they, with the constant threat of endless Blight or other horrors?). He even tells to Varric in one of their banters - the Wardens may be screw-ups, but "they bought us some time". Us - everyone. Including him.

O.O if the next game has a double Blight in it, I'll be scared (very scared) for Thedas (Qunari uprising, Solass Threat) will mean nothing if a double Blight kills everyone.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Also: while guilt motivates him greatly, he does what he thinks it's necessary. We don't know if he actually didn't peek into the future and saw that things are going only in a really bad direction (and why shouldn't they, with the constant threat of endless Blight or other horrors?). He even tells to Varric in one of their banters - the Wardens may be screw-ups, but "they bought us some time". Us - everyone. Including him.

 

I just hope they don't turn him into the Catalyst to make his idiot plan "right."

 

Oh, look at me, I'm an immortal being doing horrible stuff to save you!  Your puny mortal gremlin brains just can't handle it TROLOLOLOLOL 

[Missy_MI]

Sorry to jump in with a quick topic change, but I've been contemplating DA4 and was wondering what you all thought of this idea.

 

What if the new protagonist becomes, perhaps unknowingly, an agent of Fen'Harel? Solas isn't a typical villain after all. If we start off in Tevinter and they are at war with the Qunari, I don't think it's too far fetched that Fen'Harel or his agents would step in to save someone from getting killed or enslaved to the Qun (or the magisters for that matter). Especially if they happened to be after an artifact or powerful item the other group possessed at the time.

 

And a rescued protagonist might gratefully join up with them until discovering the more ruthless aspects of the organization. I think Solas is smart enough to recruit followers from all races if they prove useful. "Restoring the elves" could be spun into "helping oppressed people" as long as the details of the true end goal were concealed well enough.

 

Of course this would put the protagonist in a perfect position to be recruited by the Inquisition and act as a double agent. It would also hopefully allow a brand new player to see a more nuanced version of Solas than 'Evil Big Bad' and some first-hand motivation for redeeming or killing him.

[NeverlandHunter]

This is off the current topic but it has bugged me since I played through the game the first time.

 

We're told over and over that red lyrium is BAD.  Like, all caps BAD.  Don't touch it, don't go near it.  It messes with your head just being near it, it needs to be shielded and avoided.  So why .. why in the Maker's name in Emprise du Lion does the Inquisition *insist* on making camps in the middle of masses of red lyrium.  Like Drakon's Rise camp and the Tower of Bone camp.  Giant spikes of red lyrium every freaking where and we camp RIGHT THERE.  Because ... why?!  WTF is wrong with our people that we have to camp there!  And why can't I, as Inquisitor, tell everyone to stop being dumb-arses and camp somewhere else ... like anywhere else that doesn't have giant spikes of red lyrium every freaking where?!

 

Gah!

 

Ok, rant off.  My current playthrough is in Emprise and I think of this every darn time I'm here lol.

These guys have been working near red lyrium for months now... it's gotten to their heads. Plus it's warm!

 

I took it more as he doesn't see himself as being evil and not caring what others feel. They may not quite be people to him, but they aren't things to step on and discard like I expect the rest of the pantheon saw the lesser people to be. What he is doing IS wrong, but there doesn't need to be suffering on top of that. If he were a monster he wouldn't give a damn who got hurt along the way.

Weeeell, I suppose it's how you define monster. He's definitely without a doubt willing to commit a monstrous act, is the fact that he's sad about it enough to prevent that label being used on him?

 

We know him, we know he isn't black or white. Lavellan and Cole do too, but is the fact that he's sorry going to be enough for his victims? Or for any Inquisitor who chooses not to try to redeem him? I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to call him a monster and to want him dead. What I mean to say is Solas is a terrible person, but he also isn't a terrible person. I know, I make a lot of sense.

 

And him feeling bad isn't enough, he's still going along with his plans, and in some ways it's a heck of a lot worst. He knows what he's doing is wrong, but he chooses to go on. He's made friends, maybe found love, but decided the regret he'll have when they die isn't enough reason to stop. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Sorry to jump in with a quick topic change, but I've been contemplating DA4 and was wondering what you all thought of this idea.

 

What if the new protagonist becomes, perhaps unknowingly, an agent of Fen'Harel? Solas isn't a typical villain after all. If we start off in Tevinter and they are at war with the Qunari, I don't think it's too far fetched that Fen'Harel or his agents would step in to save someone from getting killed or enslaved to the Qun (or the magisters for that matter). Especially if they happened to be after an artifact or powerful item the other group possessed at the time.

 

And a rescued protagonist might gratefully join up with them until discovering the more ruthless aspects of the organization. I think Solas is smart enough to recruit followers from all races if they prove useful. "Restoring the elves" could be spun into "helping oppressed people" as long as the details of the true end goal were concealed well enough.

 

Of course this would put the protagonist in a perfect position to be recruited by the Inquisition and act as a double agent. It would also hopefully allow a brand new player to see a more nuanced version of Solas than 'Evil Big Bad' and some first-hand motivation for redeeming or killing him.

 

I dunno...quizzy was already an unwitting pawn.  I think twice in a row might be a little much.  It also might not work as well as a plot device now that the players who finished Trespasser are intensely paranoid of every elf EVER  

 

You could start out knowingly working for Solas, but that might not go over well either.  Not everyone wants to play the kind of character who would hop on board with Solas; it'd sort of be ME2 Cerberus all over again, except about ten times worse since players now have very personal reasons to hate Solas.

[GoldenGail3]

Sorry to jump in with a quick topic change, but I've been contemplating DA4 and was wondering what you all thought of this idea.

What if the new protagonist becomes, perhaps unknowingly, an agent of Fen'Harel? Solas isn't a typical villain after all. If we start off in Tevinter and they are at war with the Qunari, I don't think it's too far fetched that Fen'Harel or his agents would step in to save someone from getting killed or enslaved to the Qun (or the magisters for that matter). Especially if they happened to be after an artifact or powerful item the other group possessed at the time.

And a rescued protagonist might gratefully join up with them until discovering the more ruthless aspects of the organization. I think Solas is smart enough to recruit followers from all races if they prove useful. "Restoring the elves" could be spun into "helping oppressed people" as long as the details of the true end goal were concealed well enough.

Of course this would put the protagonist in a perfect position to be recruited by the Inquisition and act as a double agent. It would also hopefully allow a brand new player to see a more nuanced version of Solas than 'Evil Big Bad' and some first-hand motivation for redeeming or killing him.

Why don't we assume that's whatever's gonna happen in DA4 is gonna one heck of a ride. But the Inquistor is a pawn... Can't we play a character that isn't gonna be used by some eleven god? The Warden was the first of them, Hawke second. And then Inquistor was used the most...by both Solas and Flemeth.

[RynJ]

I just hope they don't turn him into the Catalyst to make his idiot plan "right."

 

Oh, look at me, I'm an immortal being doing horrible stuff to save you!  Your puny mortal gremlin brains just can't handle it TROLOLOLOLOL 

 

I highly doubt that will be the case. In fact, I'm actually hoping that he's right about some things and isn't just an idiot, because that's where I see the narrative heading as of now. Pure you're right, he's wrong in every single way. If he's just a screw up in every single aspect of everything he does, that's boring as heck. I want to doubt myself and my choices in at least some manner. 

[Missy_MI]

I dunno...quizzy was already an unwitting pawn.  I think twice in a row might be a little much.  It also might not work as well as a plot device now that the players who finished Trespasser are intensely paranoid of every elf EVER

 

You could start out knowingly working for Solas, but that might not go over well either.  Not everyone wants to play the kind of character who would hop on board with Solas; it'd sort of be ME2 Cerberus all over again, except about ten times worse since players now have very personal reasons to hate Solas.

 

Ha ha that's true. Burning the player twice would not be good. Still, I don't really like the thought of going up against Solas in a direct fashion like we did with Cory. At least not at first. Seems like infiltrating the organization would work better. And you'd certainly be sabotaging whatever missions you're given of course, so it's not like you'd be truly helping him.