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[drosophila]

Me either. On this PT I felt as if the Inquisition wasn't really my own, and you can even state that to him. That codex about him is perfect. It really is! He played us all.

 

http://i.imgur.com/DhoX67G.png

 

He greeted us as a humble apostate wanderer who had knowledge of people and spirits, he advised us to lead Haven's people to Skyhold and said posturing was necessary, thus we became the Inquisitor after he saw how the people adored us and would do anything for us. You can see him plotting during the song. Then his advice did turn to poison because everyone turned against us and we lost our arm and almost our life.

 

I wouldn't go that far. That codex is Evanuris propaganda, and it sounds a lot like elections commercials to me - has a grain of truth to it, but it's spun to make him look the worst way possible. 

 

Without his help, Cory would probably have turned the world to hell by now, so ironically Solas did play an instrumental part in saving Thedas before he went on to destroy it. (Because it has to be destroyed just the way he likes it )

 

An Inquisitor he despises probably ends up being just a pawn to him, but a pawn he treats particularly well nonetheless. But if you earn his respect, he does tell you that he very much respects you and you earned all your accomplishments. I think he sees himself more as a mentor and a sponsor than a manipulator. 

 

Everyone turning against Inky - it was inevitable. I predicted this would be the outcome long before DLC. With Cory gone, nobody needed the Inquisition desperately, and the Inquisitor was just a rival in the Game, one with too much power to be idly tolerated. Ups and downs like this are a part of politics, it's the Inquisitor's job to deal with them, not something Solas should be concerned with at all, and yet he is, and he does help with the Qunari and the warning that the Inquisition has grown too big and is threatened by corruption. 

 

Inky losing the hand - Solas only removed the mark to save Inky's life, and from what Weekes tweeted, it seems that the hand was just too far gone at that point to keep. 

[midnight tea]

I like to headcanon my romanced Lavellan is being watched over by him like a guardian angel despite his ability to make me feel inferior, especially when I find out I was basically a puppet and he was the puppet-master.

 

Nah - I get how people could feel that directly impacted their sense of agency, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that Solas was a puppet-master. There were too many risks and unknowns involved when i comes to Cory and the Breach, and eventually it was Inquisitor who did the bulk of the job (at least the competent one).

 

Then there's of course the fact that in the midst of fighting a unique threat it was hard to suspect that one of ancient elves - the fabled rebel/god Dreamer who crated the Veil - is alive and kicking (and playing spymaster, apparently). Even with Mythal walking among mortals, not even Inquisition could suspect how many more ancient beings are involved and what they're doing. Inquisitor is powerful and influential, but not omnious - it's understandable that they're just uncovering the depths of complexity of power flow together with half-forgotten secrets of Thedas.

 

Still... this whole thing also makes me want to see Inky again as a fully independent player in this ancient game, that they were made part of by Solas himself at the end of Trespasser.

[Eivuwan]

In your opinion, what would be the strangest thing they could do to the Solas romance in DA4? I am thinking that it would be super strange to have a sex scene haha.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Nope, it's actually a variation of a very old, and very effective manipulation technique - "without us, you're nothing/a monster". It doesn't happen to as big extent as to the Qunari, but the life writes many tales of people who leave their environment and "go crazy", at least in a fashion. It gets worse, the more insular their previous environment was or the worse the "the outside world is bad and you're bad for doing this, this and that!".

 

And I recall that Solas has similar comment somewhere in the game about Circle mages and his comments about those practicing blood magic also seem similar - that mages or those taught that anything outside circle is bad, can't help themselves to not get lost, or do things they were taught to be perceived as an inherent part of straying from the right path.

 

Basically, Solas seems to strongly believe in the influence of nurture over the power of nature.

 

That's true.  And as a Harry Potter fan I would side with Solas on nurture over nature.  As a biological sciences person...well...genetics in Thedas is magic anyway, so that's how they get away with it?

 

 

Still... this whole thing also makes me want to see Inky again as a fully independent player in this ancient game, that they were made part of by Solas himself at the end of Trespasser.

 

One of the motivations frequently attributed to Solas for breaking up with Lavellan and not telling her the truth is that he didn't want to drag her into his mess.  Which...kind of breaks down as of Trespasser.  Yes, he tipped her off about the qunari to help Thedas, and took the Anchor to save her life.  But any Lavellan whom Solas learns to love is one tough cookie.  How could he possibly think that wandering off through an eluvian would dissuade her?  She's literally made a legend off of being an epic spanner in the works to godlike beings

[Sable Rhapsody]

Nah - I get how people could feel that directly impacted their sense of agency, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that Solas was a puppet-master. There were too many risks and unknowns involved when i comes to Cory and the Breach, and eventually it was Inquisitor who did the bulk of the job (at least the competent one).

 

And a lot of it is, again, PC-centered thinking.  We're used to the PC being the biggest, baddest, cleverest person on the block.  Dragon Age neatly subverts that illusion at least once per game, first with Flemeth and now with Solas.

[drosophila]

Oh come on you have to admit his first meeting was playing out exactly like that!    It's because we changed him he stopped and everything went south, but he did start his usual plan of approach as he did with them. That's dead on.

 

Playing out exactly like how? He wasn't exactly playing, IMO. The adorkable nerd is just who he is, that's why he's so good at 'playing' that role. He went to templar-infested Haven, surrounded himself with Chantry forces in his weakened state, and offered to help fix his (admittedly stupid) mistake. 

 

What could he have done instead?

 

Solas: Hello, respected Andrastian gremlins! I might look like a suspicious knife-ear apostate to you, but I'm actually an ancient elven mage. This might sound like I'm a demon to you, but it's more like I'm that evil Fen'Harel from Dalish legends, only I'm not evil, I do my best to help people. So in my effort to help, I set out to tear down the Veil, but the blighted Tevinter magister I used to unlock my ancient elven artifact drenched in magic didn't die like he was supposed to... Long story short, you see the hole in the sky? It's my fault. But I can help if you just trust me! Now take me to your prisoner, I know just how to fix the weird magic on their hand...

[drosophila]

In your opinion, what would be the strangest thing they could do to the Solas romance in DA4? I am thinking that it would be super strange to have a sex scene haha.

 

Well, last time we got a kiss while a magical amputation was in progress. I really don't want to think what it takes to get a sex scene...

[Sable Rhapsody]

Solas: Hello, respected Andrastian gremlins! I might look like a suspicious knife-ear apostate to you, but I'm actually an ancient elven mage. 

 

This reminds me so much of Weekes' Assquisitor tweet:

 

Hello, Dalish buddies!  It's me, the Herald of Andraste!  Have you heard the good news about the Maker?  (paraphrased, something along those lines)

[Eivuwan]

Well, last time we got a kiss while a magical amputation was in progress. I really don't want to think what it takes to get a sex scene...

 

I can't even imagine.

[drosophila]

And a lot of it is, again, PC-centered thinking.  We're used to the PC being the biggest, baddest, cleverest person on the block.  Dragon Age neatly subverts that illusion at least once per game, first with Flemeth and now with Solas.

 

Yes to this! I appreciate the realism of the PC not being the most specialest snowflake, just because they're the PC. There are people more powerful than you and you can get lots of respect from them, but they're still more powerful, and you have to work for that respect. 

[drosophila]

This reminds me so much of Weekes' Assquisitor tweet:

 

Hello, Dalish buddies!  It's me, the Herald of Andraste!  Have you heard the good news about the Maker?  (paraphrased, something along those lines)

 

LOL, I'm out of likes, but this is funny 

[Cee]

That's true.  And as a Harry Potter fan I would side with Solas on nurture over nature.  As a biological sciences person...well...genetics in Thedas is magic anyway, so that's how they get away with it?

 

As a human feels mallow, I'd also fall mostly on the nurture side. Solas' vision of this is still somewhat limited, of course, given his view of peoples and their status, even if he blames himself for their state. And of course, he's got eyes stuck in the past.

 

 

One of the motivations frequently attributed to Solas for breaking up with Lavellan and not telling her the truth is that he didn't want to drag her into his mess.  Which...kind of breaks down as of Trespasser.  Yes, he tipped her off about the qunari to help Thedas, and took the Anchor to save her life.  But any Lavellan whom Solas learns to love is one tough cookie.  How could he possibly think that wandering off through an eluvian would dissuade her?  She's literally made a legend off of being an epic spanner in the works to godlike beings

 

Sort of, but also not, especially if you offer to go with him. But the last bit of what you said holds up in all of the hints that he wants to be stopped and fully expects you to come after him. In a non-romance playthrough, he acknowledges as much.
 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Yes to this! I appreciate the realism of the PC not being the most specialest snowflake, just because they're the PC. There are people more powerful than you and you can get lots of respect from them, but they're still more powerful, and you have to work for that respect. 

 

The PC is always special to some extent because they're the player's link to the world, the fulcrum on which the whole story turns.  But like you said, that doesn't mean the PC has to be the most powerful person in the story.  And at least the way I played it, it was sheer dumb luck that my three DA PCs happened to be in the middle of these really important events.

 

As a human feels mallow, I'd also fall mostly on the nurture side. Solas' vision of this is still somewhat limited, of course, given his view of peoples and their status, even if he blames himself for their state. And of course, he's got eyes stuck in the past.

 

Sort of, but also not, especially if you offer to go with him. But the last bit of what you said holds up in all of the hints that he wants to be stopped and fully expects you to come after him. In a non-romance playthrough, he acknowledges as much.

 

My views on nature/nurture are a textbook example of inconsistency born of cognitive dissonance.  And I'm rather ok with that

 

So...why does Solas want a friend/romanced quizzy to stop him?  He clearly does still want to help his people.  He clearly thinks something is wrong with Thedas as it stands, so some part of him must want to succeed.  Is it guilt?  Does he feel, like Anders, that if he's punished and suffers for what he does, that'll somehow make it more ok?  Or maybe it's part of an even longer con; maybe he's counting on quizzy to try and come up with a solution that he can't see.  

[Cee]

 My views on nature/nurture are a textbook example of inconsistency born of cognitive dissonance.  And I'm rather ok with that

 

So...why does Solas want a friend/romanced quizzy to stop him?  He clearly does still want to help his people.  He clearly thinks something is wrong with Thedas as it stands, so some part of him must want to succeed.  Is it guilt?  Does he feel, like Anders, that if he's punished and suffers for what he does, that'll somehow make it more ok?  Or maybe it's part of an even longer con; maybe he's counting on quizzy to try and come up with a solution that he can't see.  

 

I was mostly poking fun. I am sensitive and empathy-driven but also more logical and analytical than a lot of people think. So I understand.

 

But as far as Solas, it's the real question, isn't it? As we've discussed before, I don't want him to be compelled by some other force outside himself as that would cheapen it. He wants to help, feels he must, but there are so many potential consequences and unknowns. I don't think he's even certain what those consequences will be, but estimating.

 

He's so complex, it's the best.

[Ardent Blossom]

In your opinion, what would be the strangest thing they could do to the Solas romance in DA4? I am thinking that it would be super strange to have a sex scene haha.

 

I have my fingers crossed for that so-called strange sex scene (optional of course for my asexual friends). I never really got a sex scene in my Mass Effect (Garrusmancer), and my stupid Hawke "romanced" Sebastian  . Alistair was so long ago. They're just trolling us with those shiny elven thighs. "No, we're not going to give Solas a sex scene, but we are going to give him the sexiest pants in Thedas. Tee hee! Common guys! Let's go drink some fan tears! Yippee!"  I'm not a fan of headcanoning. It doesn't happen until I select the option on the dialogue wheel that makes it happen, darn it!

 

What would be strange is only giving the Quizzy a short cameo and throwing in a couple extra lines for Solasmancers or only tossing Solavellan a crappy wartable mission.

 

Assign Josephine 2.0 to write a letter to Lady Lavellan in Wycome or Kirkwall or whatever. 23 hours later...reward!  Lady Lavellan sends you her broken Token of the Packmaster and requests that you not kill her crazy boyfriend unless absolutely necessary. +5 Influence 

 

That would be strange, cruel and would make me a very sad panda. 

[drosophila]

He had planned to win over the Herald by taking advantage of their reputation, have them kill Corypheus and then use the Orb. When it broke, so did his plan, but through that he was able to see things differently and even fall in love, so we broke the Dread Wolf's pattern. Now he is stripped bear and simply Solas. He would not have done anything differently. 

 

In the very beginning of the game, the Herald had no reputation to be taken advantage of. They were a prisoner whom everybody blamed for the explosion at the conclave, the Breach, and the death of the Divine. The Herald lived only because of the voices they heard at the Temple of Sacred Ashes and because it just so happened that Cassandra and Leliana were the type of people to take those voices and other reasoning into account while others were pushing hard for the Herald to be tried and executed ASAP. Solas himself says in the Fade scene how Cassandra did not trust him at first and threatened to execute him. He had been this close to fleeing. 

 

He was incredibly brave to walk in the middle of all of this mess, when he was weak, alone, and unprotected. True, he must've had agents at this point, but how much could they have done if he was seized by templars?

 

In Tresspasser he says he only began seeing the Inquisitor as his hope for defeating Cory after Haven fell and the Inquisitor survived. And that is also when he began respecting the Inquisitor, if they have high approval. This is also the scene in which he calls an elven Inquisitor lethallin/lethallan. As I said, perhaps it's a little more manipulative with an Inquisitor he does not approve of, but he still gave them Skyhold and secured power for them, which he never took away. I don't see how he was simply using the Inquisitor.

 

It's how he uses people to get what he wants. Like the freed slaves.

 

Which slaves? The ones in Arlathan? No! They're the ones he did all of this for. 

 

The codex is also the key to calling him out on who he really is. The Inquisitor caught that pattern and with 3 more codex entries, she can tell him before he tells her that he's Fen'Harel.

 

Yes, because the codex contains the description of the humble wanderer (or something like that), which is what Solas is truly like. Not because of the part where his advice turns sour. 

[Nebula_Coalescere]

For me, personally, wanting a new protag has more to do with the new protag than the inquisitor. Tevinter (all of northern Thedas, really) has been this shadowy, mysterious place for 3 games now, and the potential to see it from the eyes of a native? Wow!

I love my inquisitors, but if I had to play them for extended periods of time, I'd be thinking, "right, but I could be playing my ex-slave/magister/liberati/Ben-Hassrath agent/whatever crazy nuts backgrounds they end up having for DA4."

I want to see Tevinter from the eyes of someone who lived there, not some rando Marcher who I've grown to love, but who's not relevant to the place, as relevant as they may be to the story. So much of what we've heard of Tevinter is secondhand, from Tevinter companions, from hearsay, and from the few times people visited Tevinter in the comics. Even if the inquisitor went to live there, they'd see a massively edited picture of the empire. They're the inquisitor. They didn't grow up there, they went there after gaining a fancy title and loads of fame.

A new protag is our chance to finally see that glorious, corrupt, magnificent, rotting empire from the perspective of a true insider. Possibly Par Vollen, too!

 

 

 

they'll figure it out i'm sure, i've got mixed views about it myself. I would feel better about the final solas moments if i were the inquisitor there controlling  her/him.

but then again i would love to play a new character, someone dramatically different from the previous 3 pc. anti-hero, bad reputation or  hardened qualities. granted you get those 3 slots, for polite, sarcastic, and mean dialogue options, but still fit under that certain personality. otherwise i may feel like i keep playing the same person over and over.

 

but anywho, they could very easily please everybody between 2 playable mains, opting to choose one or the other, or even have the inquisitor as a possible party member which you can still choose dialogue, or based on imported saves what they would "usually" say based on how you played. or even have the inquisitor as mentor much like josephine, leiliana, and cullen but a more prominent force within the game. there's tons of options for them to explore really.

[midnight tea]

In the very beginning of the game, the Herald had no reputation to be taken advantage of. They were a prisoner whom everybody blamed for the explosion at the conclave, the Breach, and the death of the Divine. The Herald lived only because of the voices they heard at the Temple of Sacred Ashes and because it just so happened that Cassandra and Leliana were the type of people to take those voices and other reasoning into account while others were pushing hard for the Herald to be tried and executed ASAP. Solas himself says in the Fade scene how Cassandra did not trust him at first and threatened to execute him. He had been this close to fleeing. 

 

He was incredibly brave to walk in the middle of all of this mess, when he was weak, alone, and unprotected. True, he must've had agents at this point, but how much could they have done if he was seized by templars?

 

In Tresspasser he says he only began seeing the Inquisitor as his hope for defeating Cory after Haven fell and the Inquisitor survived. And that is also when he began respecting the Inquisitor, if they have high approval. This is also the scene in which he calls an elven Inquisitor lethallin/lethallan. As I said, perhaps it's a little more manipulative with an Inquisitor he does not approve of, but he still gave them Skyhold and secured power for them, which he never took away. I don't see how he was simply using the Inquisitor. 

 

Out of likes, so 

 

It was a difficult, strenuous situation for their all - and the game over card and future in Redcliffe only support the fact that Inquisitor was the only person in Thedas (well, at least that part of Thedas) that had a chance to do anything about the crisis with the Breach and Corypheus. There was not so much 'playing' as there was desperation and risk. Yes, Solas nudged many things his own way, but ultimately he made Inkys stand on their own (especially liked ones) as much as any other circumstances and those in power did.

[Abelis]

So, talking about spies, I was thinking it would be fun for DA4 for the the new pc to spy on Solas on behalf of Inky and reporting back to her/him, and s/he, as a second playable character, decides how the next quest goes (either trying to change his mind through making him see he should not do it - or maybe finding another way ? - or to sabotage his plans.)

 

Also, have some Solas

Spoiler

[S.W.]

In your opinion, what would be the strangest thing they could do to the Solas romance in DA4? I am thinking that it would be super strange to have a sex scene haha.

 

That's probably the top of the list. I can't imagine one being done seriously without Solas stopping halfway through and going 'nope, I seriously can't do this', because the two of them would probably be a bundle of tumultuous feels who'd likely be doing it as much out of comfort as out of passion. I reckon something devastating must have happened for them to consider throwing aside their prescribed roles for a night, and there'd probably be alcohol or the like involved in top of that, I couldn't imagine the two sleeping with each other now except out of reckless abandon. It couldn't be too political a tragedy - for instance, if the qunari managed to conquer most Thedas, as much as end-of-the-world sex seems like a nice option, I can't imagine either of them quitting the field where they're most needed right now, where they need to retreat and regroup and reorganise, for physical comforts. I can't think of a personal tragedy that would bring them together though :\

 

To write that in character would be a massive challenge, although the more I think about it, the more I believe it could be an interesting scenario. Oh Solas, even your sex scenes are feelsy