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[NeverlandHunter]

 

Hawke: I spy with my little eye something beginning with 'R'.

Nightmare: ROCK.  IT'S A ROCK.  IT'S BEEN ROCK THE LAST 100 TIMES WE PLAYED, WOMAN.

*opens a Fade rift and kicks Hawke out*

Mehaha, nobody keeps Hawke out of the playing for long!

 

At least according to the short story about them, Anders + Justice were able to take on a bunch of templars by themselves, and Anders feels no pain when he's in full-on possession mode.  Gameplay wise, possessed!Anders + Haste = demolition crew.

 

Definitely Morrigan.  Maybe she doesn't have the raw power of possessed!Anders, but she probably has the deepest knowledge and versatility of casting.

 

I always specced my Amells (Warden and Hawke) as very powerful offensively, and weak on healing.  So my Hawke would be up there too.  Blood Mage/Force Mage and no moral scruples make for a very scary lady.

Yeah I read that short too, which is why I separated Awakening Anders and DA2. They're at completely different levels of power. 

It's interesting people keep saying Morrigan, even as your Origins companion? Wynne has the practical experience and years over her, plus the spirit imbuing her with some of its power too.

 

I was also thinking about the most powerful of the three Inquisition mages you can be. Obviously how you roleplay and what specs you use will affect them individually, but as an Origin which background gave them the most magical talent?

Originally I thought Adaar would have the weakest magic, probably being taught by one parent with little knowledge and a few mages throughout their life, but the more I think about it Trevelyan probably has the weakest combat magic. The Circles are certainly willing to use mages for fighting, but I doubt they go out of their way to teach mages such skills. It wouldn't make sense, what if they revolted? I imagine Lavellan had to learn combat magic for the protection of her clan, but I think she'd have less practical experience with it than Adaar. Thus I have concluded that in combat Adaar is the most effective fighter, then Lavellan, and lastly Trevelyan (in the beginning of the game that is). But as far as magical knowledge goes I think Trevelyan has the best education, then Lavellan, and lastly Adaar.

My off topic ramblings 

[Sable Rhapsody]

They killed elves and used their blood to weaken the Veil, but I think it was because of their elven blood possibly?

 

Ugh, I just had a horrible thought.

 

We're told that elves make better sacrifices for blood magic, and now it makes sense.  It was elven magic that made the Veil in the first place, so of course elven blood would be better at creating tears in the Veil 

[Moondreamer01]

I'm a bit divided on the whole future-without-the-Veil thing we saw during In Hushed Whispers. I was under the impression that the way Corypheus breached the Veil was the "wrong" way to do it, and that causing spirits to be pulled through turned them into demons and so on. I though someone had even said as much at some point. But if the Veil was taken down "properly" then you wouldn't have armies of demons and an apocalyptic looking world. Especially since it's hard to imagine that's how things looked when elves and spirits frolicked in ages past.

 

So... either things were bad during IHW because it was done wrong, or the world really will be that way with the Veil gone and this is not something Solas knows will absolutely happen. What divides me is how he says the world is an abomination and should never come to pass, so was he aware at that point things would be really bad, or were they just really bad because how it was done...?

 

(And yes some will automatically be all YES IT'S BAD AND SOLAS IS DUMB AND DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING, but I want to consider this a bit more logically than "ha ha bad god decisions" being the only answer.)

 

And wait wait... what about when the magisters initially broke into the Fade? How'd that go? Why did that not eat the world with demons and bad stuff?

My best guess is that the future we see in Redcliffe happens because the Breach was left to expand on its own. The Breach is a rip in the veil that pulls any Spirit coming close to it into the real world and the resulting shock turns them to demons. The worse the Breach gets, the more spirits gets pull through. Like ripping into fabric though, there comes a point where it has no structural integrity left. I see the future in Redclife being at that point. The veil's torn beyond repair and has (or will shortly) dissipate, but the process is a violent and slow one. If we were to see Thedas a few hundred years from that point, it would probably have stabilized and look somewhat like it was pre-veil, but in the mean time, it would be a hellish place to live in.

 

Hopefully, Solas plans on bringing down the veil in a quicker and more controlled fashion though, which would suck less, at least for the spirits...

[Uirebhiril]

Didn't the magisters use blood magic and sacrifice a lot of slaves to get into the fade? I'm a bit confused on that part as Solas says blood magic makes it harder to get into the fade. Maybe the blood magic is part of the reason things went so wrong?

 

That's how the story goes, but what I'm wondering is how that didn't cause a similar breach that threatened to envelop the whole world like it did in DAI. Did the magisters just remember to close the door behind them when they stepped through, or what...? Is there anything in codex or lore that says what happened at the time the magisters did the ritual and entered the Fade? Tidal waves, hailstorms, anything?

 

Corypheus went through this once before, you'd think he knew how to do it so that way the sky didn't open and start s*itting out demons.

[MayriyaNoori]

This post makes me think of the Zion party in The Matrix Reloaded

 

 

Pretty much spot on.

[Moondreamer01]

Ugh, I just had a horrible thought.

 

We're told that elves make better sacrifices for blood magic, and now it makes sense.  It was elven magic that made the Veil in the first place, so of course elven blood would be better at creating tears in the Veil 

Well, that's definitely not a cheery thought 

 

Solas does say he doesn't personally use blood magic, though, so I'd say it's probably unlikely. Now, in the present, would he be desperate enough to use the Magister's ritual if ever every other way failed? At this point, maybe... I hope not though.

[Catfishers]

Didn't the magisters use blood magic and sacrifice a lot of slaves to get into the fade? I'm a bit confused on that part as Solas says blood magic makes it harder to get into the fade. Maybe the blood magic is part of the reason things went so wrong?

 

I took that to mean that blood-magic made it more difficult to enter the Fade consciously while dreaming. Entering physically may be an entirely different matter.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Originally I thought Adaar would have the weakest magic, probably being taught by one parent with little knowledge and a few mages throughout their life, but the more I think about it Trevelyan probably has the weakest combat magic. The Circles are certainly willing to use mages for fighting, but I doubt they go out of their way to teach mages such skills. It wouldn't make sense, what if they revolted? I imagine Lavellan had to learn combat magic for the protection of her clan, but I think she'd have less practical experience with it than Adaar. Thus I have concluded that in combat Adaar is the most effective fighter, then Lavellan, and lastly Trevelyan (in the beginning of the game that is). But as far as magical knowledge goes I think Trevelyan has the best education, then Lavellan, and lastly Adaar.

My off topic ramblings 

 

 

That makes sense.  I headcanoned my Adaar being trained by another Tal-Vashoth mage.  From what we see in Trespasser and DA2, qunari emphasize the destructive power of magic, and that even carries over to the DA2 Tal-Vashoth mages.  Their saarebas are already powerful, so a Tal-Vashoth mage who is properly trained to withstand demons and in control of his own actions would make a very formidable opponent.  He does lack Dorian's grace and Solas's finesse, though.  The magical equivalent of a battering ram

[Uirebhiril]

Ah that does make sense! Maybe that's why all those elves are gathering to join Solas?

 

The idea has already been kicked around, but we don't even know for sure they are disappearing to join Solas. But doing something like that would certainly turn him into a monster in deed, even if not form, so it's possible. We'll just hope not, because yikes.

[maia0407]

That's how the story goes, but what I'm wondering is how that didn't cause a similar breach that threatened to envelop the whole world like it did in DAI. Did the magisters just remember to close the door behind them when they stepped through, or what...? Is there anything in codex or lore that says what happened at the time the magisters did the ritual and entered the Fade? Tidal waves, hailstorms, anything?

 

Corypheus went through this once before, you'd think he knew how to do it so that way the sky didn't open and start s*itting out demons.

I just assumed that the ritual wasn't complete when the Inquisitor entered and that her interference caused the magic to go bonkers. So, cory opened the breech to get into the fade and intended to close it behind him with the anchor. But the orb got flung causing rifts to open everywhere, spirits to be pulled through and the breech wasn't closed quickly enough. That's just head cannon though. I don't really know what happened with the magisters though. It sounds like whatever they opened didn't have the effect of pulling spirits through at least.

[Cee]

 
 Also HAPPY BIRTHDAY CEE here's a suitably frilly cake

Spoiler

 

That just may be the frilliest of cakes.

 

Thanks all of you for the birthday messages.

[Cee]

Lavellan: "It's complicated... "

Random Guy: "Say no more."

 

Solas is the very definition of "it's complicated".

[Sable Rhapsody]

That's how the story goes, but what I'm wondering is how that didn't cause a similar breach that threatened to envelop the whole world like it did in DAI. Did the magisters just remember to close the door behind them when they stepped through, or what...? Is there anything in codex or lore that says what happened at the time the magisters did the ritual and entered the Fade? Tidal waves, hailstorms, anything?

 

Corypheus went through this once before, you'd think he knew how to do it so that way the sky didn't open and start s*itting out demons.

 

Corypheus probably knew how to do it.  Then quizzy f***ed up the ritual  During In Hushed Whispers, we learn that Cory wanted to go back before the Breach, which implies to me that the Breach was an unintended consequence of the ritual going awry and the Anchor ending up with quizzy.  He probably didn't care about the sky sh*tting out demons, but I don't think that's what he wanted to happen either.

 

 

Well, that's definitely not a cheery thought 

 

Solas does say he doesn't personally use blood magic, though, so I'd say it's probably unlikely. Now, in the present, would he be desperate enough to use the Magister's ritual if ever every other way failed? At this point, maybe... I hope not though.

 

I don't think he would use it.  Thus far, whenever he uses people, he also helps them.  Like the Inquisition, or the slaves he freed back in Arlathan.  He wouldn't be able to maintain that he isn't a monster if he personally sacrificed a sh*tton of elves to bring down the Veil.

[Uirebhiril]

I don't think he would use it.  Thus far, whenever he uses people, he also helps them.  Like the Inquisition, or the slaves he freed back in Arlathan.  He wouldn't be able to maintain that he isn't a monster if he personally sacrificed a sh*tton of elves to bring down the Veil.

 

I hope not, but we've (possibly) been wrong before. Hi, Felassan. We're sorry.

[Cee]

I find it amusing that I had The Dread Wolf track from Trespasser open in YouTube and the recommended videos at the end include a very particularly derpy looking cat video.

[cleosilver]

Corypheus probably knew how to do it.  Then quizzy f***ed up the ritual  During In Hushed Whispers, we learn that Cory wanted to go back before the Breach, which implies to me that the Breach was an unintended consequence of the ritual going awry and the Anchor ending up with quizzy.  He probably didn't care about the sky sh*tting out demons, but I don't think that's what he wanted to happen either.

 

 

 

 

I figured that the breach was caused when all the power built up in the ritual grounded itself through Quizzy's hand when she picked the orb up instead of being channelled properly into whatever Coryfish had intended to use it for. It's all Quizzy's fault.

[Fen'Eira]

The thing I'm worried about DA4 is that with a new protagonist will we be forced to stop Solas as though he's evil, or will we have a choice between that and stopping him because though he means well, he's wrong and has to be stopped.  Will our next story allow us that choice?  What kind of freedom will we have in the attitude our next protagonist will carry?  

 

If we get to play as our inquisitor character (with an arcane powered arm from our creative little dwarf friend) will we have the choice to stop him or stop "how" he's going to do it and help him drop the veil the "right" way?

 

It seems very complicated, that it would be like playing two separate games and can they afford to do that, put that much creative work into supporting both angles?  And then there's the third angle...would we be able to stop Solas from  bringing down the veil the worst possible way, or be able to stop him from that but helping him do it the "right" way with the least casualties.  There is that choice for the Solasmancer in Trespasser, to say "I want to help you."

 

For the Solasmancer,  it's going to be tough if we have to be pegged into an attitude of stopping the "bad guy."

 

I might be rambling, I haven't finished my coffee yet.

[Cee]

I hope not, but we've (possibly) been wrong before. Hi, Felassan. We're sorry.

 

Sigh.

 

I fully understand it. And yay for karmic irony, but still, I expected someone else.

[NeverlandHunter]

That makes sense.  I headcanoned my Adaar being trained by another Tal-Vashoth mage.  From what we see in Trespasser and DA2, qunari emphasize the destructive power of magic, and that even carries over to the DA2 Tal-Vashoth mages.  Their saarebas are already powerful, so a Tal-Vashoth mage who is properly trained to withstand demons and in control of his own actions would make a very formidable opponent.  He does lack Dorian's grace and Solas's finesse, though.  The magical equivalent of a battering ram

Yeah! I wonder how much of it is their teachings and how much is their inherently more aggressive behavior? S'interesting

Also had me thinking about the mage Origin in Origins. Although being a mage has people label you as dangerous I think Surana and Amell are the least prepared for the fighting that will insue and trekking the wilderness and just dealing with the real world. They were very sheltered.

I'm in a rambling mood

Do you think possession was rare during the time before the Veil? Solas never gives Vivienne a good answer for how he'd deal with it so I assume he never had to before, or at least not on a large scale.

[Uirebhiril]

I figured that the breach was caused when all the power built up in the ritual grounded itself through Quizzy's hand when she picked the orb up instead of being channelled properly into whatever Coryfish had intended to use it for. It's all Quizzy's fault.

 

I love the back-and-forth idea of something like this. Had the Inquisitor not disrupted the ritual, Corypheus would have succeeded. Possibly. Not sure if the massive explosion would have happened that way, or if he'd have already figured things out and would have been the one thrown into the Fade with the anchor.

 

But, in that event, he would have been in the Fade and could have gotten all up to the Black City again. What might he have found there? What could he truly have unleashed? How bad would this have affected the world?

 

So if you look at it... Corypheus could have succeeded and gotten into the Fade and royally crapped things up for the world. Corypheus could have died, Solas could have recovered the orb and gone into the Fade and possibly crapped things up for the world. Inquisitor ends up going into the Fade and then spends time trying to solve all the crappy things in a world that barely seems to be fighting against its destructive tide. Who is really the villain and who the hero at this point?

[Draconaise]

So, I was replaying Trespasser (finally) mostly to hear Cole's party banters this time but also to see if I could withstand the emotional beating, ha. Anyway, after you follow the Viddasala through the eluvian right after the Darvaarad, Cole says (I'm paraphrasing) : "Solas doesn't want to hurt people. He's not that kind of wolf." Then, shortly after, he says something like: "He must be nearby. He can't be far from her, or it hurts him." Maybe I'm just having a major brain fart, but he can't be far from WHOM, exactly? The Inquisitor? Or the Viddasala? Is this referring to the mark? To the romance? Sorry, sometimes lore stuff flies right over my head. Can someone explain this line? I've only played through on my Solasmancing Inquisitor so I don't know if this line has a pronoun swap for male inquisitors, which would make it a bit clearer...

[Ghost Gal]

Ugh, I just had a horrible thought.

 

We're told that elves make better sacrifices for blood magic, and now it makes sense.  It was elven magic that made the Veil in the first place, so of course elven blood would be better at creating tears in the Veil 

 

Well, that and elves are intrinsically tied to the Fade. Since the Fade is the source of all magic, and blood magic is meant to fuel magic, and this blood magic ritual is meant to enter the Fade, elven blood would be more potent than human blood.

 

Ah that does make sense! Maybe that's why all those elves are gathering to join Solas?

 

Nah, I think the elves are gathering to join Solas because they're tired of living under human boots, not because they want to bear their throats for a mass elven blood-sacrifice ritual. If they wanted to do that, they could go to Tevinter.

 

 

I feel like we're all guessing this stuff on the assumption that when Solas says, "The return of my people means the end of yours," he means it literally, as in he fully intends to let the modern elves fry along with the other races when the Veil is removed, and only the dozen or so ancient elves who slept through the formation of the Veil will benefit. Since we (apparently) think that only the already-ancient elves will benefit from this plan, that means Solas only intends to trick the modern elves into volunteering for sacrifice-fodder for a blood magic ritual to recreate a world he has no intention of letting them benefit from?

 

Wow... we must really think Solas is an unconscionable monster.

[Xilizhra]

I feel like we're all guessing this stuff on the assumption that when Solas says, "The return of my people means the end of yours," he means it literally, as in he fully intends to let the modern elves fry along with the other races when the Veil is removed, and only the dozen or so ancient elves who slept through the formation of the Veil will benefit. Since we (apparently) think that only the already-ancient elves will benefit from this plan, that means Solas only intends to trick the modern elves into volunteering for sacrifice-fodder for a blood magic ritual to recreate a world he has no intention of letting them benefit from?

 

Wow... we must really think Solas is an unconscionable monster.

It's to bring back the world that Solas destroyed. It's to remove the Veil and heal Thedas, and let the elven race return to the world as it was originally meant to be, not existing in the hellish near-Tranquil state that Solas perceives.