I actually get kind of disturbed by the attitude of a lot of DA fans towards to the elves. What makes people hate a fictionalised oppressed group that much?
There seems to be a number of players who dislike elves in just about every fantasy world that contains them. I have no idea why, but I've noticed the hate seems to be mostly directed at the male elves, not the females. Or, at least it was that way in the WoW fandom.
But that's not the point I'm trying to make. I don't think it's in Solas' character to claim he's restoring this world to help modern elves, but then turn around and only use modern elves as blood sacrifices to restore the ancient world only for "already ancient elves" to enjoy. That's Evanuris stuff, but not Solas (for all his many faults.) Yet, apparently everyone else does. I don't get it.
Being a gray character means that Solas can truly dip either way and it wouldn't be out of character. He's not just sweetness and Fade kisses. He has proven so far that he can and will do whatever he sees as necessary in pursuit of his duty, and we can't discount that side of him unless we want to diminish the character as a whole. He is not evil, but he is not good. He's not bad, either. And as much as we want to say he's misguided, with where the story left us we don't know the whole of it and believing he's not capable of something is as much a disservice as the idea he can't possibly have a single redeeming quality.
We can speculate on some of the more evil and ruthless things Solas might do. It doesn't mean he wants to, or likes himself for doing it. But he is driven and will do what he feels he must, and if we come up with the worst-case scenario it's not out of hate for Solas. It's due to understanding the character.
There seems to be a number of players who dislike elves in just about every fantasy world that contains them. I have no idea why, but I've noticed the hate seems to be mostly directed at the male elves, not the females. Or, at least it was that way in the WoW fandom.
Well, female elves are hot 
Elves frequently get the "we are magical and superior" trope, which is IMO kind of obnoxious. Only the ancient DA elves really fit the trope (Solas, Abelas), but their detractors seem to extend it to the Dalish as well.
Guest_Keeva_*
I'm a biased elf lover because I grew up with Zelda games lol
Honestly, I assumed that even if Solas was planning a massive blood sacrifice ritual, full on tricking wouldn't be involved. That's not really Solas' MO. I think he'd be honest about what he's doing and what it would mean for them, for the most part. There are probably quite a few elves who would still be willing to go along with him of their own volition, even at that cost.
It's still a little disturbing, but is it really that unusual of a possibility? I'd rather it not be the case, but I can see it.
Being a gray character means that Solas can truly dip either way and it wouldn't be out of character. He's not just sweetness and Fade kisses. He has proven so far that he can and will do whatever he sees as necessary in pursuit of his duty, and we can't discount that side of him unless we want to diminish the character as a whole. He is not evil, but he is not good. He's not bad, either. And as much as we want to say he's misguided, with where the story left us we don't know the whole of it and believing he's not capable of something is as much a disservice as the idea he can't possibly have a single redeeming quality.
We can speculate on some of the more evil and ruthless things Solas might do. It doesn't mean he wants to, or likes himself for doing it. But he is driven and will do what he feels he must, and if we come up with the worst-case scenario it's not out of hate for Solas. It's due to understanding the character.
How can he be a monster when the elves would willingly do this for the greater good of their people? If a Lavellan can ask to join, why not them? I could see them wanting to help and offering themselves and him hesitatingly accepting if there's no other way.
Guest_Keeva_*
Honestly, I assumed that even if Solas was planning a massive blood sacrifice ritual, full on tricking wouldn't be involved. That's not really Solas' MO. I think he'd be honest about what he's doing and what it would mean for them, for the most part. There are probably quite a few elves who would still be willing to go along with him of their own volition, even at that cost.
It's still a little disturbing, but is it really that unusual of a possibility? I'd rather it not be the case, but I can see it.
That's what I said. They would be willing. He would not take anyone against their will. He's not like that.
That doesn't sound like Solas either though. At least not the Solas we thought we knew. Remember Cole's personal quest when Cole claims it's not abuse (binding him) if it's voluntary. I really don't believe Solas is into the whole "sacrifice for the greater good" mentality. He doesn't like it when you do this with the Chargers either.
Nah, I think this is Solas going against his own principles, because he believes it is necessary and that he has no choice for some reason.
Thank you!! That makes more sense. The last "he" Cole referred to was Solas, so I missed the sudden topic change. Goddamnit, Cole.
Yeah, Cole really needs to learn how to seperate his stream of consciousness type ramblings apart.
(Finally, my own slightly erratic thought process finally comes in useful! I can hire myself out as a Cole whisperer!)
Just to add my two cents on Solas' future plans and what they mean for Thedas......I believe that he is speaking quite literally when he says "Doing so will most likely destroy your world."
Why?
Because his original plan was to lower the Veil from inside the Fade, probably because he guesses that is the best way for him to survive the rejoining of the two worlds. And he doesn't have to be in the Fade to lower it from what we see in the game. You have the Breach and whatnot so it must be possible to take away the Veil from either side. Not to mention the fact that clearly Solas constructed to Veil from the physical world, so in theory it can be deconstructed from there as well.
The only logical thought for me then is that Solas does expect full on burning chaos reigning down on Thedas and odds of survival are better if you are on the Fade side.
I also completely draw the line if Solas ends up sacraficing tons of modern elves to walk the Fade because at that point he truly is as bad as he claims the Evanuris to be.
) It seems to me that the chaos after removing the Veil will be the more pressing matter. Magic coming back to the elves? Evanuris being released? Spirits possibly being twisted into demons? I'm thinking of a Legend of Korra type of situation but with more chaos. Plus, Thedosians tend to panic over demony shite. 
I actually get kind of disturbed by the attitude of a lot of DA fans towards to the elves. What makes people hate a fictionalised oppressed group that much?
Some people just don't like elves in general because they're overused in a fantasy setting and are usually set up to be the top tier race. (Dancing naked in the moonlight.) They tend to get special treatment in things like LOTR. DA Elves are so different from that though. Fallen from grace. It makes them so unique. But I'm always a fan of elves.
Guest_Keeva_*
Yeah, Cole really needs to learn how to seperate his stream of consciousness type ramblings apart.
(Finally, my own slightly erratic thought process finally comes in useful! I can hire myself out as a Cole whisperer!)
It's bad timing lol if you don't bring Cole another party member will comment and state it clearer.
Personally, I think Solas is playing this exactly as his chess match showed. He'll sacrifice a lot of his pieces to win, at any cost.
Yeah, I doubt just about anyone would go along with the idea of "kill all the elves that are my people in a massive blood magic ritual but I'll love you anyway." Except maybe for those players who have a Sera-type character. Plays an elf but hates elves and is perfectly content to see one form of genocide, but not another.
Just to point out that Sera doesn't blanket hate elves, she has internalized some cruel racism and she has issues with many aspects of elven culture (she learned some of it, which she can also point out, as in JoH, but she has Andrastian beliefs) but she'd still help elven people who were in need.
Guest_Keeva_*
Personally, I think Solas is playing this exactly as his chess match showed. He'll sacrifice a lot of his pieces to win, at any cost.
He and Bull started that Chess game when I was doing the Dead Hand puzzle. They carried it over from there to the Temple of Pride.
Honestly, I assumed that even if Solas was planning a massive blood sacrifice ritual, full on tricking wouldn't be involved. That's not really Solas' MO. I think he'd be honest about what he's doing and what it would mean for them, for the most part. There are probably quite a few elves who would still be willing to go along with him of their own volition, even at that cost.
It's still a little disturbing, but is it really that unusual of a possibility? I'd rather it not be the case, but I can see it.
Mmm...it doesn't quite follow. The elves (in general) are fairly selfless when a sacrifice would better their own people. Especially the Dalish. What's the point if all of your people are being sacrificed anyway? How many elves does it take to rend the Veil? We aren't given numbers, just the impression of a whole bunch of blood sacrifices in the Canticle of Silence.
That doesn't sound like Solas either though. At least not the Solas we thought we knew. Remember Cole's personal quest when Cole claims it's not abuse (binding him) if it's voluntary. I really don't believe Solas is into the whole "sacrifice for the greater good" mentality. He doesn't like it when you do this with the Chargers either.
Nah, I think this is Solas going against his own principles, because he believes it is necessary and that he has no choice for some reason.
Agreed. While he is perfectly capable of sacrificing people for the greater good, he doesn't seem to actually like the idea. Remember his tirade against the Wardens? His dislike of them comes from more than just the demon army. He also doesn't like how they use duty and sacrifice to justify their extreme behavior.
I'm thinking of a Legend of Korra type of situation but with more chaos.
And in Thedas, that would cause a feedback loop. More panicking mortals leads to more spirits getting corrupted into demons, and it just spirals out of control. Maybe some cultures that treat spirits differently (the Avvar, the Rivaini, the Mortalitasi) would be able to put a lid on it, but your average Thedosian would have a pretty hard time.
I'm a biased elf lover because I grew up with Zelda games lol
I'm a biased elf lover because I'm a human every day. Being an elf is a great escapism. In MMO's I almost always play an evil elf. Human/good alignment in real life, elf/evil alignment for escapism.
Guest_Keeva_*
I'm a biased elf lover because I'm a human every day. Being an elf is a great escapism. In MMO's I almost always play an evil elf. Human/good alignment in real life, elf/evil alignment for escapism.
Elves are either shown as good or bad. I kind of liked the dark elves in Thor. It made them shown in a different light from what I was used to most of my life.
There seems to be a number of players who dislike elves in just about every fantasy world that contains them. I have no idea why, but I've noticed the hate seems to be mostly directed at the male elves, not the females. Or, at least it was that way in the WoW fandom.
Because guys know that if male elves existed they would be stealing all the chick's away, so it's a defense mechanism of sorts....
Just to point out that Sera doesn't blanket hate elves, she has internalized some cruel racism and she has issues with many aspects of elven culture (she learned some of it, which she can also point out, as in JoH, but she has Andrastian beliefs) but she'd still help elven people who were in need.
I know. But there are a number of people I see playing elves who want to be an outcast, to hate their elf life and how the elves live and so on. I'm pretty sure the other elves hate how they live too, but at least in Dragon Age it's not like they chose it. They'd probably like a house and enough food to eat just like anyone else. Trying to get themselves to where they are allowed to have homes and food to eat just makes them get kicked harder by the humans. They're kind of screwed for that.
Sera really seems to have grown by Trespasser though. I liked her well enough for what she was in the main game, but I really wanted to hug her in the DLC.
If the Veil was to be torn down, I'm slightly worried that the reason people would be killed is due to the sheer influx of raw magic suddenly permeating every single thing in Thedas. Everyone in that scenario would be like a 60 watt bulb plugged into a nuclear reactor cranked up to eleven!
The Elves probably only survived being sundered when the Veil fell because their depowerment forced them to go cold turkey and learn to cope with their new state of being. But I don't now how Solas expects anyone to survive, since it's extremely hard to imagine mages and even non-mages alike surviving such a massive hit of raw magic into their system when the breakers get flipped back on, since Solas seems to suggest everyone would become mages.
Unless there's some kind of pocket-universe and/or fallout shelter he's going to throw the Elves in to survive or ease the transition to getting their old levels of insane magical power, it seems like a really dubious plan?
Or he's banking on none of them surviving and repopulating with any Elves trapped along with the Evanuris when he sealed them away?
Just to add my two cents on Solas' future plans and what they mean for Thedas......I believe that he is speaking quite literally when he says "Doing so will most likely destroy your world."
Why?
Because his original plan was to lower the Veil from inside the Fade, probably because he guesses that is the best way for him to survive the rejoining of the two worlds. And he doesn't have to be in the Fade to lower it from what we see in the game. You have the Breach and whatnot so it must be possible to take away the Veil from either side. Not to mention the fact that clearly Solas constructed to Veil from the physical world, so in theory it can be deconstructed from there as well.
The only logical thought for me then is that Solas does expect full on burning chaos reigning down on Thedas and odds of survival are better if you are on the Fade side.
I also completely draw the line if Solas ends up sacraficing tons of modern elves to walk the Fade because at that point he truly is as bad as he claims the Evanuris to be.
It doesn't really mean that for certain.
What if the Veil can be brought down from the Fade in a safe manner, but the unchanging nature of the waking world wouldn't allow its' safe removal?
What if bringing the Veil down from the unchanging side of the Veil will cause spirits to be sucked out of the Fade?
We can't really know why it is important to remove the Veil from the Fade, Solas is the one who put it up, he is the expert. He put the Veil in Skyhold, in the unchanging world, maybe he needs to do the opposite to remove it, otherwise you'd end up with a massive breach instead.
There is also the issue that there are many ancient elves roaming about modern Thedas, if bringing down the Veil from the Fade was to only way to stay alive then the ancient elves would've died as well.
Anyhow, the dialogue with low-approval Inky seems to hint that Inky would survive the Veil dropping and that's why Solas can't tell them why the current world has to die, so he won't give them tools to use against him.
Why would the devs present the player with the option of possible redemption for Solas only to have him commit such an irredeemable act as this suggested blood sacrifice. He's ruthless, but that is just silly. I can see having to choose between him and the death of a companion, but not mass blood sacrifice.
Personally, I'm getting all the horrible (if implausible) thoughts out of my system now. If I don't, they'll keep swirling around in my head like giant, obnoxious bats until Solas's arc gets resolved
Still the same MO when it comes to Solas: hoping for the best, bracing for the very worst.
Guest_Keeva_*
Why would the devs present the player with the option of possible redemption for Solas only to have him commit such an irredeemable act as this suggested blood sacrifice. He's ruthless, but that is just silly. I can see having to choose between him and the death of a companion, but not mass blood sacrifice.
Well Solas did say:
"Sometimes to achieve the world one desires, one must take regrettable measures"
Or he's banking on none of them surviving and repopulating with any Elves trapped along with the Evanuris when he sealed them away?
Drop dem pants for the glorious elvhen empire!
Maybe the Crossroads would be a safe zone? Parts of it, like the library, were badly affected by dropping the Veil. But the Crossroads itself, the place between the eluvian destinations, seems relatively intact. It's close to the Fade, but NOT the Fade, and also not the physical world. Elves seem to thrive there, so maybe instead of gathering the modern elves to sacrifice them all, he's rescuing them to the Crossroads, with the intent of teaching them how to control their magic in the Veil-less world.
(see, I'm capable of happy thoughts too! )
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