153455 réponses à ce sujet

[MayriyaNoori]

omg.......this set of gifs.....the feels are......omg

 

It's the progression of how Solas looks at Lavellan.....

 

O

M

G

 

it hit me hard.

source

 

Spoiler

[MayriyaNoori]

This is pretty much what I'm thinking.  Though if the DA4 protagonist is indeed a Tevinter native, I'm going to have a hard time not playing a mage.

 

I've had a fun time playing the outsider and outcast in the DA series.  Mage Warden and Hawke, Tabris, Lavellan, and mage Adaar.  I'm looking to mix it up a bit, so for Tevinter, I kind of want to be The Man  The sheltered altus who actively benefits from the Tevinter system of governance, and doesn't realize how wrong it is until confronted with something truly horrible.

 

Yeah.....I always play a mage anyway, but if the game is in Tevinter then I will have to hard of a time not playing one.

 

Plus, I wonder if the available mage speccing will be new and interesting based on the fact it's the Imperium and pretty much anything goes there.

[Vhenan Sequitur]

 

Do we know if Quizzie let it out beyond her inner circle?  I mean, if Quizzie made it common knowledge that the Inquisition had been infiltrated by elven servants of the Dread Wolf ... triple shame on Quizzie for being a grade A idiot.  And short of Quizzie or Leliana or Harding letting that information out, how would anyone ever know?  

 

Which is why the bit about "those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel" had me nearly tearing my hair out.  What in the void, Quizzie?  What in the void, Bioware?  That was a stupid, stupid move.

 

I don't get the logic there. They let the player decide if they share the truth about Ameridan with the public, but they force us to out The Dread Wolf? Sure we might be able to redeem him, but now all of Thedas will want his blood even if we do. What's that about? My Lavellan wouldn't have told anyone beyond the inner circle that Solas was involved. Maybe since they specifically mention Fen'Harel and not Solas everyone but the Inquisitor thinks Solas is just an agent of Fen'Harel. If not then a redeemed Solas would be on the run/in hiding perhaps even to a greater extent than Anders.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Yeah.....I always play a mage anyway, but if the game is in Tevinter then I will have to hard of a time not playing one.

Plus, I wonder if the available mage speccing will be new and interesting based on the fact it's the Imperium and pretty much anything goes there.

Return of blood mage spec? From what Dorian says it sounds like it's fairly common.

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't get the logic there. They let the player decide if they share the truth about Ameridan with the public, but they force us to out The Dread Wolf? Sure we might be able to redeem him, but now all of Thedas will want his blood even if we do. What's that about? My Lavellan wouldn't have told anyone beyond the inner circle that Solas was involved. Maybe since they specifically mention Fen'Harel and not Solas everyone but the Inquisitor thinks Solas is just an agent of Fen'Harel. If not then a redeemed Solas would be on the run/in hiding perhaps even to a greater extent than Anders.

After what he caused, it seems fine to me, First because if I get infiltrated by someone and he happens to be a god, it makes me look better. Damn straight I'm snitching. Secondly, I think the world deserves to know who's trying to kill them and who caused all this trouble and death. Would be bad for the elves in general though. But hey, it is what it is.

[Mairemalley]

I don't get the logic there. They let the player decide if they share the truth about Ameridan with the public, but they force us to out The Dread Wolf? Sure we might be able to redeem him, but now all of Thedas will want his blood even if we do. What's that about? My Lavellan wouldn't have told anyone beyond the inner circle that Solas was involved. Maybe since they specifically mention Fen'Harel and not Solas everyone but the Inquisitor thinks Solas is just an agent of Fen'Harel. If not then a redeemed Solas would be on the run/in hiding perhaps even to a greater extent than Anders.

So much this.  My Quizzie (if I had a choice) would never have let it out beyond the inner circle.  She'd even have been highly particular about which members of said circle she'd tell.

*Quizzie marches up to Exalted Council* "So, guys. The Dread Wolf of Dalish lore is real and he's here and he's trying to destroy the world.  He's using elven spies in all of our organizations to bring down the Veil.  It is like, epically bad time, guys.  I'll be back in a bit to let you know how the inquisition is going to handle this."  *an hour later* "Ok, guys.  You all suck.  I've clearly explained how the world is going to end and you're just bickering over stupid stuff.  Never mind. I've got this.  I'm disbanding the Inquisition and save the world myself.  Again."

 

1) for the majority who think she's lost her mind, Quizzie just lost all credibility

2) for those who believe her, mass panic

3) for all, open season on elves

 

I see precisely zero reason for Quizzie to have spilled the beans. At all.  The only possible way I can see the writers worming out of this giant fail is if "those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel" only refers to the Inner Circle.  Like, maybe Vivienne didn't buy it or something.  But even that is kind of...odd.

[Mairemalley]

After what he caused, it seems fine to me, First because if I get infiltrated by someone and he happens to be a god, it makes me look better. Damn straight I'm snitching. Secondly, I think the world deserves to know who's trying to kill them and who caused all this trouble and death. Would be bad for the elves in general though. But hey, it is what it is.

But to the majority of Thedosians, Fen'Harel isn't a god.  More like, they're all gonna be snarking and snerking at the suggestion, much like Cass was in the Temple of Mythal.  IF they believe it in the first place.  More likely, I think, it's just going to make Quizzie look insane at worst, or grasping at straws to save face at best.

 

And they still don't really know who's trying to kill them (the Dalish know next to nothing about Fen'Harel, never mind humans).  How are they going to protect themselves?  And people in panic mode, thinking the world is going to end at the hands of an entity they know nothing about and can't effectively fight are more likely to fall into chaos than mount a cohesive defense.  They couldn't get their crap together to face down the Blight, and the Blight was something they knew and could see.

 

It is what it is.  I'm just not keen on being railroaded into Dumbtown.

[Colonelkillabee]

So much this.  My Quizzie (if I had a choice) would never have let it out beyond the inner circle.  She'd even have been highly particular about which members of said circle she'd tell.

*Quizzie marches up to Exalted Council* "So, guys. The Dread Wolf of Dalish lore is real and he's here and he's trying to destroy the world.  He's using elven spies in all of our organizations to bring down the Veil.  It is like, epically bad time, guys.  I'll be back in a bit to let you know how the inquisition is going to handle this."  *an hour later* "Ok, guys.  You all suck.  I've clearly explained how the world is going to end and you're just bickering over stupid stuff.  Never mind. I've got this.  I'm disbanding the Inquisition and save the world myself.  Again."

 

1) for the majority who think she's lost her mind, Quizzie just lost all credibility

2) for those who believe her, mass panic

3) for all, open season on elves

 

I see precisely zero reason for Quizzie to have spilled the beans. At all.  The only possible way I can see the writers worming out of this giant fail is if "those who believed the Inquisitor's story about Fen'Harel" only refers to the Inner Circle.  Like, maybe Vivienne didn't buy it or something.  But even that is kind of...odd.

Looking at it all wrong.

 

If Solas' servants are elves, then everyone being paranoid of elves makes it more difficult for them to spy. As for credibility, they just saw the sky tear open as waves of demons poured in, and watched an almost immortal ancient darkspawn control a dragon and made ruins float in the air, and the quizzy stopped that. Not to mention multiple visits to the fade and time travel. The credibility is certainly there. They know more than anyone about such things and people would take pause for certain, even if the usual suspects choose to doubt you as always.

 

As for mass panic, heck, they stared at a hole threatening to swallow up their reality for a year and did ok,

[ChuChu]

I live in Edmonton, though.  I'm not sure if becoming New Arlathan would make me happy or sad.  Probably sad.  They'd never finish the LRT expansion. 

-hi fives-
I have a number of friends in Edmonton. They had a great time at the Expo, recently (particularly the DA panel)... ;P

[Colonelkillabee]

But to the majority of Thedosians, Fen'Harel isn't a god.  More like, they're all gonna be snarking and snerking at the suggestion, much like Cass was in the Temple of Mythal.  IF they believe it in the first place.  More likely, I think, it's just going to make Quizzie look insane at worst, or grasping at straws to save face at best.

 

And they still don't really know who's trying to kill them (the Dalish know next to nothing about Fen'Harel, never mind humans).  How are they going to protect themselves?  And people in panic mode, thinking the world is going to end at the hands of an entity they know nothing about and can't effectively fight are more likely to fall into chaos than mount a cohesive defense.  They couldn't get their crap together to face down the Blight, and the Blight was something they knew and could see.

 

It is what it is.  I'm just not keen on being railroaded into Dumbtown.

God or not, they'd know he's a threat, especially after seeing what he caused. They may snark and snicker at the suggestion some other time, but even Cassandra had to believe after what she was witness to. I think you underestimate the quizzy. Though maybe it would be different for a Dalish quizzy vs a human one.

 

I don't find it dumb personally, if the world doesn't know, how will you get any help. You need the help.

[Mairemalley]

God or not, they'd know he's a threat, especially after seeing what he caused. They may snark and snicker at the suggestion some other time, but even Cassandra had to believe after what she was witness to. I think you underestimate the quizzy. Though maybe it would be different for a Dalish quizzy vs a human one.

 

I don't find it dumb personally, if the world doesn't know, how will you get any help. You need the help.

What has he caused that they've seen?  They've seen Corypheus's attempt to take over the world.  They've seen the Breach and Quizzie closing it with a gift bestowed by Andraste.  At best, they've seen the Qunari attempt to infiltrate the Winter Palace and Quizzie thwarting them.  Beyond Quizzie's word, they've seen exactly nothing that leads to Fen'Harel.  

 

Quizzie's word, mind, that Quizzie produced after being "backed into a corner" (their perception, mind) by the Exalted Council.  In order to save the Inquisition and/or his/herself from irrelevance, here Quizzie is proclaiming this phantom Fen'Harel as a threat to the world.

 

Quizzie needs help.  But not the kind of widespread military help needed against Corypheus.  Quizzie may have to convince individuals to help, but I still don't see what benefit comes from telling everyone.  Doubly so if Quizzie is an elf.

[Colonelkillabee]

What has he caused that they've seen?  They've seen Corypheus's attempt to take over the world.  They've seen the Breach and Quizzie closing it with a gift bestowed by Andraste.  At best, they've seen the Qunari attempt to infiltrate the Winter Palace and Quizzie thwarting them.  Beyond Quizzie's word, they've seen exactly nothing that leads to Fen'Harel.  

 

Quizzie's word, mind, that Quizzie produced after being "backed into a corner" (their perception, mind) by the Exalted Council.  In order to save the Inquisition and/or his/herself from irrelevance, here Quizzie is proclaiming this phantom Fen'Harel as a threat to the world.

 

Quizzie needs help.  But not the kind of widespread military help needed against Corypheus.  Quizzie may have to convince individuals to help, but I still don't see what benefit comes from telling everyone.  Doubly so if Quizzie is an elf.

Everything Corypheus did was Solas' fault. If Cornflakes can do that with power not his own....

 

The majority of people don't need to believe, the right individuals however, they'll be keeping their eyes open. I can see how the credibility of a Dalish inquisitor would be shaky though. Still, it's worth a shot. After all, if no one listens, then there's no widescale panic to worry about, yes? At worst, some snobbish nobles make fun of you, and then they get shamed by the people that still call you hero.

[Colonelkillabee]

Reminds me of Mass effect 3.

[Mairemalley]

Looking at it all wrong.

 

If Solas' servants are elves, then everyone being paranoid of elves makes it more difficult for them to spy. As for credibility, they just saw the sky tear open as waves of demons poured in, and watched an almost immortal ancient darkspawn control a dragon and made ruins float in the air, and the quizzy stopped that. Not to mention multiple visits to the fade and time travel. The credibility is certainly there. They know more than anyone about such things and people would take pause for certain, even if the usual suspects choose to doubt you as always.

 

On Solas's servants.  Yep, Elves.  The last time the Elves posed a significant threat to Orlais an Exalted March was declared.  I think 'paranoid' may be an understatement.  More like 'hunt down the evil aliens and kill them'.  Which is fine for taking away one of Solas's advantages but not so fine if the continued existence of the elves and their (shreds of) culture is of any concern.

 

Quizzie stopped Corypheus by the intervention of Andraste, giving her the mark to undo Corphyeus's work.  We don't know that they have any idea who or what Corypheus is.  How many of them saw Quizzie visit the fade the second time?  Beyond her people and the Grey Wardens (who are either under the Inquisition's thumb or exiled), no one.  And Grey Wardens are notorious for keeping secrets (are they really going to tell people they were doing blood magic rituals in league with Corypheus?).  Who but her own people, Erimond, and Fiona would know that Quizzie time travelled?

 

You think I'm underestimating Quizzie.  I think you're overestimating Quizzie.  Or overestimating people.  

[Colonelkillabee]

 

You think I'm underestimating Quizzie.  I think you're overestimating Quizzie.  Or overestimating people.  

On the contrary, a witch hunt is what I'd expect. All I gotta say is, Solas is the one making it an us or them mentality, so any collateral damage, I'd just blame him.

 

As for the grey wardens, cat's already out of the bag on that one. Thats why they suggested in the game that you keep the wardens under your protection, so the rest about you entering the fade would be known too. Up to you whether or not you mention the mark wasn't Andraste's, but you can indeed mention that. And I'm assuming you tell them by the end anyway, they'd wonder how you got rid of your mark, and how a supposed elf  could take it away.

 

But like I said, them all believing isn't the point. Spreading the word is, same as Shepard did in ME 3, and it did help some.

[Tamyn]

 Or overestimating people.  

 

Agreed.

 

[Vhenan Sequitur]

 

After what he caused, it seems fine to me, First because if I get infiltrated by someone and he happens to be a god, it makes me look better. Damn straight I'm snitching. Secondly, I think the world deserves to know who's trying to kill them and who caused all this trouble and death. Would be bad for the elves in general though. But hey, it is what it is.

If everyone is out to get Solas (even if he changes his mind before doing the dreaded deed) he will have nothing to gain personally from backing down from his plan. A blood thirsty mob waiting to have at him when is gives up will not be good for the prospect of redeeming him. 

 

This is why my Inky disbanded the Inquisition. She'd rather keep her efforts to save Solas from himself as covert as possible. Our friend is crazy and blind and needs help. 

 

Now, if my Inky hated Solas and didn't give a damn about what happened to him she'd tell the world her crazy story about an ancient elven "god" bent on destroying the world to restore Elvhenan, keep the Inquisition running as in independent army, and see who's game for a reckoning to shake the pillars of Thedas! Then Solas would likely turn her to stone the next time he sees her.

[Colonelkillabee]

Though I gotta remember you're arguing from a Dalish pov. It's much more stupid for Lavellan. Honestly, I could almost see her siding with him, and keeping it secret with that in mind. Otherwise, Lavellan's willingly saying to vengeful humans that an elf is trying to destroy the world. Her brethren would call her the biggest idiot in the world, especially with a keeper supposing to protect her flock from the dread wolf. She had one job, lol. Instead, she cuddled with him and let him slip the wool over her eyes, while causing humans to hunt and kill elves even more than before. Sigh, Lavellan just isn't particularly intelligent.

[Mairemalley]

Looking at it all wrong.

 

As for mass panic, heck, they stared at a hole threatening to swallow up their reality for a year and did ok,

 

Not so sure I am  And I think you hit the nail right on the head.  They stared at the hole in the sky.  They can't stare at Solas.  

[Colonelkillabee]

 

 

If everyone is out to get Solas (even if he changes his mind before doing the dreaded deed) he will have nothing to gain personally from backing down from his plan. A blood thirsty mob waiting to have at him when is gives up will not be good for the prospect of redeeming him. 

 

This is why my Inky disbanded the Inquisition. She'd rather keep her efforts to save Solas from himself as covert as possible. Our friend is crazy and blind and needs help. 

 

Now, if my Inky hated Solas and didn't give a damn about what happened to him she'd tell the world her crazy story about an ancient elven "god" bent on destroying the world to restore Elvhenan, keep the Inquisition running as in independent army, and see who's game for a reckoning to shake the pillars of Thedas! Then Solas would likely turn her to stone the next time he sees her.

 

If redeeming is even an option, which we'll have to wait and see. Personally, mine cared about him but he just took it too far. So, I don't care about being subtle, he's rather committed.

[Colonelkillabee]

Not so sure I am  And I think you hit the nail right on the head.  They stared at the hole in the sky.  They can't stare at Solas.  

Unless you say he caused it, even if indirectly I can see that if you tell the soldiers what happened after you left the fade. I personally never do.

[Colonelkillabee]

Agreed.

 

 

That's what got the Grey Wardens so screwed up, all their secrets. Even before DA I.

[ChuChu]

-leaves this here-
-goes off in search of tasty things-
ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
 

Preview: 

Spoiler

If you wanna read the earlier pages, just head over to the place!

[Tamyn]

Tell people what they need to stay safe, but don't tell them everything that they can't do anything about that will only make them freak out.

 

And I thought Grey Wardens kept secrets just to keep their recruitment numbers up. Their secrets didn't keep the public safer. Their secrets were for their own benefit and autonomy.

[Mairemalley]

On the contrary, a witch hunt is what I'd expect. All I gotta say is, Solas is the one making it an us or them mentality, so any collateral damage, I'd just blame him.

 

As for the grey wardens, cat's already out of the bag on that one. Thats why they suggested in the game that you keep the wardens under your protection, so the rest about you entering the fade would be known too. Up to you whether or not you mention the mark wasn't Andraste's, but you can indeed mention that. And I'm assuming you tell them by the end anyway, they'd wonder how you got rid of your mark, and how a supposed elf  could take it away.

 

But like I said, them all believing isn't the point. Spreading the word is, same as Shepard did in ME 3, and it did help some.

As for where the blame of collateral damage lies ... that's very much dependent on your own moral views.  I can see your point.  I can also see the point that you are responsible for the fallout of actions whose consequences you could reasonably predict.  Potatoes po...taw...toes...

 

I think we're arguing two different things here.  Or very strenuously disagree on what is common knowledge in Thedas and what is not.  I'm not suggesting that Quizzie and co. are not intimately aware of the reasons for keeping the wardens under your protection.  What I am suggesting is that none of this is common knowledge to the rest of the world.  At best, it may be tavern talk. "Did you hear the Wardens are working for the Inquisition now?" "Yaaaah.  All those heroes fighting the Breach!" "Traveller said the Grey Wardens were consulting demons!" Like, all based on hearsay and generally inaccurate at best.

 

 

 

If everyone is out to get Solas (even if he changes his mind before doing the dreaded deed) he will have nothing to gain personally from backing down from his plan. A blood thirsty mob waiting to have at him when is gives up will not be good for the prospect of redeeming him. 

 

This is why my Inky disbanded the Inquisition. She'd rather keep her efforts to save Solas from himself as covert as possible. Our friend is crazy and blind and needs help. 

 

Now, if my Inky hated Solas and didn't give a damn about what happened to him she'd tell the world her crazy story about an ancient elven "god" bent on destroying the world to restore Elvhenan, keep the Inquisition running as in independent army, and see who's game for a reckoning to shake the pillars of Thedas! Then Solas would likely turn her to stone the next time he sees her.

 

I agree, for the most part.  I think hunting down Solas (for either reason) is a different game than going after Cory.  It has nothing to do with brute force and major alliances. Though if destroying Solas at absolutely all cost were Quizzie's only goal, then yes, bellowing it from the rooftops is a fine idea.  Even a good one.  The more elves they kill the fewer spies or potential spies Solas has.  Even so, we were given no choice and THAT I dislike.

Though I gotta remember you're arguing from a Dalish pov. It's much more stupid for Lavellan. Honestly, I could almost see her siding with him, and keeping it secret with that in mind. Otherwise, Lavellan's willingly saying to vengeful humans that an elf is trying to destroy the world. Her brethren would call her the biggest idiot in the world, especially with a keeper supposing to protect her flock from the dread wolf. She had one job, lol. Instead, she cuddled with him and let him slip the wool over her eyes, while causing humans to hunt and kill elves even more than before. Sigh, Lavellan just isn't particularly intelligent.

LOL.  In a lot of ways I agree.  Though it seems to me some of Lavellan's lack of intelligence was forced by the game.  "What's a Mythal?" style.  Not arguing on Solas's motivations or the relationship.  Think on that what you will.  But you're right, telling the world is an appalling stupid idea for a Lavellan, whether they intend to side with Solas or not (mine wouldn't, but IS hellbent on saving his butt).  So you kinda proved my point.  It's a really really stupid move and we were railroaded into making it.