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[NightSymphony]

*leaves a plate of cookies*

 

[S.W.]

The Solavellanati? The Friends Of Dread Wolf? The Fen'Harelians? FAN'Harelians?

 

Ooh, I like Fan'Harel! Perhaps, the Agents of Fan'Harel

[Homeboundcrib]

It makes me think on how he viewed his relationship with Lavellan. Everyone sees him as this great figure - even his agents, and maybe even the spirits, regard him as more than just a man. But for Lavellan, he was just a man. Just some random apostate who stumbled out of the woods. And maybe he hopes that she still remembers and loves and cherishes that man, even if she doesn't see him in Fen'Harel.

God I get so feelsy over this dumb bunch of pixels and code.

I think your right I think he wants to be remembered as the man not as the mighty God. Lavellan gave that to him in many ways she looked beyond his faults and saw the real man behind all that.

[NeverlandHunter]

So I was reading this article from The MarySue it's about misanthropic villains and why they're so popular. It reminds me a lot of Solas and the Inquisitor. It's really interesting, and it brought up some great points. I definitely recommend the whole thing but I like this paragraph in particular "When these stories are well told, the heroes acknowledge the problematic nature of the status quo but nonetheless reject the villain’s “solution” that humanity deserves enslavement or annihilation. By making the villain the embodiment of cynicism and the hero a stubborn optimist, their conflict becomes, not a struggle for the status quo, but for hope."

There are some mild Fantastic Four and Avengers 2 spoilers if you're interested in reading the whole thing.

[Arlee]

You guys have probably seen this but FluffyNinjaLama posted this video of the last convo with Solas if you never talk to him during the game about anything; and it's pretty hilarious

 

[Eivuwan]

 

 

So bittersweet...

 

Now I am sad again. Solas is so sad. Lavellan is so sad. Screw Bioware's bittersweet endings. Can we just have a fairy-tale ending plzzzz?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ugh, I feel like I need a shower.  And I need to vent a bit.

 

I just finished Halamshiral with Adaar, who hated the Game.  Hated everything about it, the stupid masks, the intrigue, all of it.  Most of the time I like RPing Adaar, and I loved mouthing off to the Orlesians.  But I had such a hard time stomaching Gaspard's dialogue if you make him emperor.  The way he keeps calling Briala "rabbit" made me want to vomit   I don't even like Briala much in-game.

 

Although something Solas said after Halamshiral was interesting.  I mentioned that I wanted to help the elves even if Briala's plan didn't work out, and Solas approved?  He said something about how wanting to help the oppressed speaks well of quizzy's character.  Fingers crossed that this means the elves going into hiding during Trespasser slides aren't just being used by Solas.

[Solas]

my thoughts on the dying alone fear, under spoilers cause some of you had read it before

Spoiler

My thoughts on it from 6 months ago: [link]

 

Someone asked me, 

"So why do you think Solas's greatest fear is dying alone, when he seems like such a loner? That one confused me a bit."

 

My response:

"There are a few layers to it. On a basic symbolism level, the Dalish paint Fen’Harel as He Who Hunts Alone. He’s not literally a wolf, but wolves are pack animals. This ties into the next point. He’s currently alone not out of desire but by his own design, because he felt he had no choice.

 

He was one of the ancient elven “gods”. In order to save the People, he felt that he had to seal the others away. He basically took his peers - doubtless some were his former friends - and banished them all from the world. Mythal was murdered and a spark of her spirit joined with a human woman and she persisted in that form through the ages, but it’s not quite the same. Apart from Flemythal, Solas is the last of his kind in the world. There’s nobody left in the world who understands him on his level. There’s nobody left in the world who’s seen what he’s seen when he was younger. He thinks he can’t understand or be understood by modern elves. He’s alone in the world with the burden of his mistakes and the shadow of the People. He fears dying in a world where he hasn’t carried out his plans (unleashing them [the gods and thereby restoring the People]) because doing so would mean he had failed in his current quest.

 

Taking it further and looking at the future.. he probably feels that no matter what he does, he’ll die alone. Say he releases them - what then? The gods were fickle and feudal and sometimes warred amongst themselves. I doubt they’d forgive Fen’Harel for tricking them and locking them away for an eternity. If they don’t kill him outright, they won’t welcome him back among them. Solas is afraid that even if he achieves his goal, the future it would create can’t be his.

 

Of course in a Solavellan romance playthrough there is an extra layer of meaning. He’s scared he’ll die alone because he has to leave her in order to pursue his goals. And perhaps, if he still has a long lifespan thanks to what he is, he’s scared he’ll die alone long after Lavellan the mortal has perished."

[Solas]

Plus, is it just me, or do a lot of Lavellan's romantic body language toward Solas come across as a bit... coy and girlish?

 

Spoiler

 

Doesn't it kind of look like her pose is saying, "I'm an innocent little maiden awaiting her first kiss"?

 

I can't speak for other Lavellans, but during romantic scenes I'd kind of rather think of my girl acting her age (young and smitten) than an older woman acting younger than she is. 

I think to an extent we're pretty much projecting a bit based on our Lavellans' personalities and seeing what we want to see in terms of Lavellan's body language in these scenes.

 

To me she's mirroring his stance here (mirroring is a pretty common flirting body language signal). The hands behind the back pose is a pose he adopts himself quite often, and folk don't tend to interpret Solas as young and coy in those moments - that's a gender politics issue I think actually. She's looking at him directly dead in the eye, shoulders squared forwards, head on - chin tilted up, almost defiant, a challenge. She looks confident. She's already actively pursued him with a fairly assertive physical gesture by this point (her initiating the kiss in the dream) - with that and her pose here she's making her intentions and wants pretty clear, only with how Solas has hesitated re: the whole thing thus far and his reserved nature she's waiting for him to pick up the ball she's already placed in his court. Then she initiates another assertive physical gesture after this scene (arm-grab) even after he tries yet again to disengage. She's active, not passive, and someone pursuing with some measure of confidence, not an innocent maiden.

 

But we're all gonna see what we want tbh.

[Eivuwan]

I was just thinking that it would be more interesting to keep Inky as the next main protagonist even without the whole relationship with Solas. She lost her mark and pretty much her status as the leader of a powerful organization. How will people see her now? Will they still respect her the same as when she had special powers and a large army? How will she overcome all of these obstacles? How will she navigate her new identity? These are all interesting ways to develop her character and I hope Bioware will take advantage of that. If you start out with a new character, it's just the same blank personality that you start out with every game. I don't get why that's so appealing.

[GoldenGail3]

Or maybe I like to flirt with the dark side and learned some of their recruitment strategies
 
Here, have a cookie

Ooo, how very wise of you.

[Garnet]

Solas is such a tragic character and I'm hellspiraling on a new level since I started another playthrough. He sounds so despondent in the beginning underneath the mask of "good humored apostate." Like what he says about griffons "But sadly, they're all extict." He probably had a pet griffon.  Everything he says has several more layers to it now. I want to give him so many hugs. *sigh*

I think I need frilly cakes. Sorry for rambling. I know everyone here already knows this but I needed to get this out. I'm in an odd mood today. Probably stressed out!

Spoiler

Ma Vhenaaaan~~~~

[Sable Rhapsody]

If you start out with a new character, it's just the same blank personality that you start out with every game. I don't get why that's so appealing.

 

For me, the appeal of a blank slate character is just that--I can doodle whatever I like  Because the game doesn't establish as many of the circumstances of my character's life, I get to decided what happened, and how it shaped the character.  Lots of breadth, lots of room for creativity, but much of it is headcanon.

 

A character like Hawke (or like quizzy would be in the next game) sacrifices roleplaying breadth for roleplaying depth.  As Hawke, you have a family.  Your father was a mage, as is your sister.  Your brother is "a bit of a t*t." These established facts allow the game to delve deeper in to issues of family and lineage than the few lines of dialogue you get in DA:I or Skyrim.

 

IMO there's benefits and tradeoffs for both, and I can see the argument for wanting to experience Tevinter through different eyes.  

[Homeboundcrib]

I was just thinking that it would be more interesting to keep Inky as the next main protagonist even without the whole relationship with Solas. She lost her mark and pretty much her status as the leader of a powerful organization. How will people see her now? Will they still respect her the same as when she had special powers and a large army? How will she overcome all of these obstacles? How will she navigate her new identity? These are all interesting ways to develop her character and I hope Bioware will take advantage of that. If you start out with a new character, it's just the same blank personality that you start out with every game. I don't get why that's so appealing.

I agree with you would love to have the inqusitor back I think it would fit the story better even if solas is romanced or not. I think there story is left open and can be explored more but that might just be me though, and like you said would people still him/her as the inqusitior or just another person this would be good to see and experience.

[Eivuwan]

For me, the appeal of a blank slate character is just that--I can doodle whatever I like  Because the game doesn't establish as many of the circumstances of my character's life, I get to decided what happened, and how it shaped the character.  Lots of breadth, lots of room for creativity, but much of it is headcanon.

 

A character like Hawke (or like quizzy would be in the next game) sacrifices roleplaying breadth for roleplaying depth.  As Hawke, you have a family.  Your father was a mage, as is your sister.  Your brother is "a bit of a t*t." These established facts allow the game to delve deeper in to issues of family and lineage than the few lines of dialogue you get in DA:I or Skyrim.

 

IMO there's benefits and tradeoffs for both, and I can see the argument for wanting to experience Tevinter through different eyes.  

 

Well, I guess I prefer depth over breadth for the most part unless it's something like the Witcher which is realllyy limited. I have all 3 games, but have such a hard time starting them because I just don't wanna play as a middle age white hair dude. I really enjoyed playing Shepard in all 3 ME games and loved how her relationship with Garrus develops throughout the series. They started as friends, then lovers, then soulmates. Sigh.

[FrankWisdom]

Ooo, how very wise of you.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure whether you're taking a sarcastic tone by trying to use my username in a condescending fashion. Just to clarify my remarks were meant as playful banter. I'm hoping you picked up on this rather than taking it as a personal attack? Tone is hard to convey on the internet, even when emoticons are used to accentuate our emotions.

 

Anyways, I'mma write this just in case, because I'm sensing some snark, though it might be my imagination.

 

Namaste

[Sable Rhapsody]

Well, I guess I prefer depth over breadth for the most part unless it's something like the Witcher which is realllyy limited. I have all 3 games, but have such a hard time starting them because I just don't wanna play as a middle age white hair dude. I really enjoyed playing Shepard in all 3 ME games and loved how her relationship with Garrus develops throughout the series. They started as friends, then lovers, then soulmates. Sigh.

 

My preference is usually for breadth, but really, it depends on implementation.  Deus Ex and Planescape Torment were like the Witcher in fixing the PC's identity and backstory, but they still let me make a lot of interesting choices for how the character developed.  They started limited, then opened up beautifully.

 

IMO Shepard (at least for ME1 and ME2) was a nice balance of breadth and depth.

[midnight tea]

For me, the appeal of a blank slate character is just that--I can doodle whatever I like  Because the game doesn't establish as many of the circumstances of my character's life, I get to decided what happened, and how it shaped the character.  Lots of breadth, lots of room for creativity, but much of it is headcanon.

 

A character like Hawke (or like quizzy would be in the next game) sacrifices roleplaying breadth for roleplaying depth.  As Hawke, you have a family.  Your father was a mage, as is your sister.  Your brother is "a bit of a t*t." These established facts allow the game to delve deeper in to issues of family and lineage than the few lines of dialogue you get in DA:I or Skyrim.

 

IMO there's benefits and tradeoffs for both, and I can see the argument for wanting to experience Tevinter through different eyes.  

 

While I was never convinced that they'll let us play Quizzy as a main protag (though they may yet return as secondary protagonists), I'm not really sure if characters like Hawke or Quizzy sacrifice depth - quite the opposite in fact. If you have to start with a new character, and you only have it for one game, you only have as much depth as the game lasts and story options we were given. A recurring character necessarily gets more depth, because we don't have to do all the work of establishing the basics about them. 

 

I mean, many people have already complained that Quizzy is relatively bland (I don't think that's the case, as I enjoy subtlety, versatility between less pronounced dialogue options and filling some gaps with my own imagination, but I've seen quite a few people think otherwise), but at the same time I've seen quite a few change their mind about Quizzy in Trespasser, simply because what was done with them, after all the effort to save Thedas - they were given conflict, stakes, personal relationships that were established throughout whole previous game... how can a new protagonist even rival that in terms of depth, when we have to start building it almost from the scratch?

 

I can imagine Bioware experimenting with format, and they've already hinted that the next story (one of new protag I assume) will likely be smaller in scope and more personal - it likely won't be anything similar to DAII, but considering that we've already reached the scope of one demigod against another, it's hard to move anywhere upwards. So, given that it may be smaller and more personal, we may yet get more options to build our character and their relationships, but really - with entire Inquisition spent to build Quizzy and their relationship with Solas (and others, as well as relationship with Thedas itself), I'm not really sure if the new character will reach the depth we achieved with established protagonists already.

[Jayla]

Major apologies for the OT post, but I'm close to pulling my hair out and, as much as I love Solas, I don't think bald would suit me well.

 

Does anyone know if there's a specific point where the Bull/Dorian romance banter starts? I'll spoil the rest:

 

Spoiler

I'm about 50 hrs into the game, but only just starting Crestwood in terms of main story. That said, I've locked into Solas' romance (balcony scene anyway, I don't know if that's the lockout point or if the breakup is), and I've completed both of Bull's and Dorian's personal quests.

 

I've had Cheat Engine running for about an hour on auto banter with only Bull and Dorian in a party, and all I'm getting now is the ambient dialogue linked to the zone, no party banter (and even that's sparingly). Some people have said running around with Cole or Sera in the group initiates it, but I've tried both and exhausted all the banter I can at this point between the four of them.)

 

Basically, I'm looking for where other people have had the banter trigger at which points in their progress, by hours played and/or where they are in the story.

[Eivuwan]

While I was never convinced that they'll let us play Quizzy as a main protag (though they may yet return as secondary protagonists), I'm not really sure if characters like Hawke or Quizzy sacrifice depth - quite the opposite in fact. If you have to start with a new character, and you only have it for one game, you only have as much depth as the game lasts and story options we were given. A recurring character necessarily gets more depth, because we don't have to do all the work of establishing the basics about them. 

 

I mean, many people have already complained that Quizzy is relatively bland (I don't think that's the case, as I enjoy subtlety, versatility between less pronounced dialogue options and filling some gaps with my own imagination, but I've seen quite a few people think otherwise), but at the same time I've seen quite a few change their mind about Quizzy in Trespasser, simply because what was done with them, after all the effort to save Thedas - they were given conflict, stakes, personal relationships that were established throughout whole previous game... how can a new protagonist even rival that in terms of depth, when we have to start building it almost from the scratch?

 

I can imagine Bioware experimenting with format, and they've already hinted that the next story (one of new protag I assume) will likely be smaller in scope and more personal - it likely won't be anything similar to DAII, but considering that we've already reached the scope of one demigod against another, it's hard to move anywhere upwards. So, given that it may be smaller and more personal, we may yet get more options to build our character and their relationships, but really - with entire Inquisition spent to build Quizzy and their relationship with Solas (and others, as well as relationship with Thedas itself), I'm not really sure if the new character will reach the depth we achieved with established protagonists already.

 

Oh do you have the source? I actually like it when the story is bigger in scope, but I don't want to be part of a large organization again.

 

Edit: I also think you misread Sable's comment.

[midnight tea]

Major apologies for the OT post, but I'm close to pulling my hair out and, as much as I love Solas, I don't think bald would suit me well.

 

Does anyone know if there's a specific point where the Bull/Dorian romance banter starts? I'll spoil the rest:

 

Spoiler

I'm about 50 hrs into the game, but only just starting Crestwood in terms of main story. That said, I've locked into Solas' romance (balcony scene anyway, I don't know if that's the lockout point or if the breakup is), and I've completed both of Bull's and Dorian's personal quests.

 

I've had Cheat Engine running for about an hour on auto banter with only Bull and Dorian in a party, and all I'm getting now is the ambient dialogue linked to the zone, no party banter (and even that's sparingly). Some people have said running around with Cole or Sera in the group initiates it, but I've tried both and exhausted all the banter I can at this point between the four of them.)

 

Basically, I'm looking for where other people have had the banter trigger at which points in their progress, by hours played and/or where they are in the story.

 

Have you locked your own romance? Because I don't think the banter between them will start before you romance someone else. I also wonder whether they will hook up before Halamshiral and Adamant, because I don't think I've ever had them romanced before those (bur prior to Arbor Wilds).

 

Anyway - you're going to have to start hearing Bull getting flirty with Dorian - especially the "I will conquer you" one ;P The 'romance' banter between them should start shortly after that one.

[midnight tea]

Oh do you have the source? I actually like it when the story is bigger in scope, but I don't want to be part of a large organization again.

 

I think I heard Patrick Weekes saying at some con that in DAI we were basically building an Empire, and it's hard to top that, so it's time to shift gears The suggestion that the story may be smaller in scope comes from Kotaku Asks (http://kotaku.com/ko...uisi-1694123219) - from a same place where Mike Laidlaw tells people that they're interested in a story with multiple POVs/protagonists.

[NeverlandHunter]

For me, the appeal of a blank slate character is just that--I can doodle whatever I like  Because the game doesn't establish as many of the circumstances of my character's life, I get to decided what happened, and how it shaped the character.  Lots of breadth, lots of room for creativity, but much of it is headcanon.

 

A character like Hawke (or like quizzy would be in the next game) sacrifices roleplaying breadth for roleplaying depth.  As Hawke, you have a family.  Your father was a mage, as is your sister.  Your brother is "a bit of a t*t." These established facts allow the game to delve deeper in to issues of family and lineage than the few lines of dialogue you get in DA:I or Skyrim.

 

IMO there's benefits and tradeoffs for both, and I can see the argument for wanting to experience Tevinter through different eyes.  

There's definitely benefits of both, I like the way Origins did it the best. It set up your family and life, but that part was over so quickly that the specifics were up to your interpretation. Inquisition was too blank slate for me. I mean, I had no problem headcanoning family and friends, but I think it would of been way more impacting to have someone from your life show up.

 

It's going to be sad to let our Inquisitor's go, but in my opinion it makes the most sense for BioWare to have a whole new protagonist the next game. Just think about the romances there were 8 options in Inquisition, that's 8 different people that have to show up for some semblance of fairness if the Dorian and Solas romances will get to see their loves. Now say BioWare makes 4-6 new romance options, how many extra scenes do they now have to write and make unique and animate and voice over? And even if they decide not to add cameos for everyone's individual romance, how many people are going to stay with their loves and not experience a very fulfilling romance then? 

 

Sure, this could get people to make more characters, but there's only so many times an average fan will play through the game. I have Ithilia Lavellan for Solas, Maeve Trevlyan for I.B., Aurelie Trevelyan for Cullen, Gawaina Cadash for Blackwall, ect. ones I plan to make for the other romances before I'd finally being willing to make and play an Inquisitor that never romanced anyone in Inquisition and is now prepared to accept all the lovins in DA4.

 

This is one of the many issues having the Inquisitor as the protagonist in DA4 would have. 

[drosophila]

My preference is usually for breadth, but really, it depends on implementation.  Deus Ex and Planescape Torment were like the Witcher in fixing the PC's identity and backstory, but they still let me make a lot of interesting choices for how the character developed.  They started limited, then opened up beautifully.

 

IMO Shepard (at least for ME1 and ME2) was a nice balance of breadth and depth.

 

I prefer breadth too. I just want to add that new players and those who want to build a new character can still get plenty of breadth even if the Inquisitor comes back as the PC. The only backstory set in stone for the character woud be the events in Inquisition and the teeny amount of backstory associated with each race/class. All the details that defined Hawke in DAII were not canon-ed for Inky in the beginning of DAI, and they still won't be in the beginning of DA4.

 

People who want to make a completely new character can do so. They can make a compeltely different world state with the Keep if they want. Or one could always headcanon that 

• the Dalish Inquisitor turned to the Maker after the revelations in Tresspasser and is not devout Andrastian
• the pro-templar Inquisitor did not like the consequences of restoring the circles and putting Vivienne on the throne, and is now pro-mage
• the pro-mage Inquisitor has had it with the Demons, the Veil, the Blight, and some cranky mage screwing everything up every couple of years, and now believes all mages should be locked up in circles and the key thrown away 
• Inky had a drastic personality change due to them hitting their head after a riding accident with an unruly bog unicorn

So because we started with such a broad character, breadth and novelty are still possible, but it will also be possible for players who want to continue to develop their Inky to do so. 

[NeverlandHunter]

Well, I guess I prefer depth over breadth for the most part unless it's something like the Witcher which is realllyy limited. I have all 3 games, but have such a hard time starting them because I just don't wanna play as a middle age white hair dude. I really enjoyed playing Shepard in all 3 ME games and loved how her relationship with Garrus develops throughout the series. They started as friends, then lovers, then soulmates. Sigh.

Lol, that's why I have yet to get the game!

I love character creation

But I also like some pre-established history, in Fallout 4 I'ma gonna be a mommy! You get lots of background with Hawke and your Warden... the Inquisitor not so much. Which is fine for creative headcanon-y people *pats self on back* but not everyone can/likes headcanoning and would rather some type of structure help them decide how to roleplay!