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[Flemmy]

Trespasser tribute video preview


WARNING: Huge spoilers 

(T_T) summary of they're love and the're background story. (T_T) I hope you know what I meant to say.

[Ellawynn]

When Solas said he wants to restore the "world of the elves" that sounded pretty world-dominationy to me. I'm worried he actually plans on destroying all other countries and peoples for the sake of "what was." Through this, mass amounts of people will die, though he must do it, since he was the one that destroyed his people, and he must bring them back himself, no matter the cost. Ugh the more I think about it the more disgusted I become with the whole situation. uuuggghhh 

 

;-;

*Sigh* I keep waffling on whether or not I should share my thoughts on this. On one hand, I'm all "Write the thing, Ely! Get your feelings off your chest! Be free!" and then on the other I'm like "God don't write the thing don't start a fight sweet jesus no." but screw it, might as well.

 

It's been nearly a month since I played Trespasser (Played it the Thursday after it was released) and I still just don't know exactly where I stand on Solas or what my feelings are. I still like him, I think, but where it's normally so easy for me to understand and categorize my feelings, here it's just this weird ball of confusion. And while I haven't had any time to replay the DLC, I have been rewatching scenes, and listening to debates, and trying to get opinions from across the spectrum on Solas and his plans. 

 

Spoiler

But recently, I read something that made it a little easier to parse out my thoughts: an article - completely unrelated to Dragon Age, mind - that said, and I quote "The best villains are the ones with the good ideas - it's their methods that make them deplorable." It made me think a lot on Solas, on reactions to him, and one where I think the writers might be going, or might be hoping for, or were trying for. Because there is a lot of negativity going around about Solas, even the folks in this thread indulge in it, and that's absolutely fair because, yeah, the guy did stand before and bald-facedly admit that he didn't think we were people, that he's going to set fire to the world, that he's going to cause the deaths of countless people in order to bring back something he thinks is better.

 

And my initial reaction was "Jesus, BioWare, really? And here I thought you learned something from how universally panned Corypheus was."

 

Which leads me back to that - people aren't upset about Solas because he's become a villain. They're upset because he's become a villain with a really bad idea. There isn't, as far as we know, much tangible benefit to his plan. He's going to bring back the world of the elves, and he's going to destroy this one to do it - but then who will be there to populate it? "The modern elves will survive," some say. "But he says 'your people will die' even to an elven Quizzie!" others retort. "Elves were spirits made flesh like Cole. He'll populate the world with them," comes another explanation. "But the Veil's going to corrupt all the spirits into demons!" And then there's "Well, there are probably a bunch more ancient elves hanging around somewhere. They'll inherit the earth." which often is met with "Where are they hiding, then? There can't possibly be enough of them." And almost every explanation is inevitably hit with "But the loss of life will be so much greater than whatever is gained."

 

Which is why the only rational explanation one can come into it with is an irrational one. "Solas is racist and wants to wipe out humans because he likes elves better." Or "Solas is guilty and wants to restore the elves because he destroyed them in the first place." And of course "Solas is delusional and he's chasing after something he can't ever hope to retrieve." All of them go back to the core that Solas' idea is awful, his plan will fail, he's not thinking logically and he needs to be stopped. But, when we see him in Trespasser, he certainly seems to be all there. He's calm, he's structured, he doesn't lose his cool or snap at our attempts to debate. He seems a man who's thought this through, and decided it to be a good plan. That's the problem. It's not. Not from our side of things, with the information we have. So to reconcile his seeming sanity with these irrational explanations, all one can come up with is "He's an evil dick who never cared about anything but his own feelings." That right there, invalidates a lot of sympathy or understanding players might feel. Because it's so hard to find something sympathetic. He never gives us anything, and he breaks that rule that the best villains have good ideas.

 

Which leads us to a question that I, at least, always try to ask myself - what did the writers intend with this content, and does that differ from how it's being received?

 

Now, it's a hard question to answer. We aren't the writers. We don't know precisely what they intended, unless they come out and tell us. But I think that, given certain things about Trespasser, and about comments made in the past, the writers were thinking they'd might get a more positive reception. There's Cole's comments, fervently defending Solas. There's Solas' own comments that he's not a monster, not a god, that he takes no joy in this. There are the comments from the writers themselves - for instance, they wanted to make sure that in the main game Solas came off as "kind and compassionate - someone who cares for everyone." And to be frank, that's bullsh!t. Solas has a lot of positive qualities, to be sure, but he does come off as condescending and ruthless and more than a little callous, and it's only through rare banters (His chess match with Chargers!Bull) easy-to-miss details (His healing those refugees in the Hinterlands) and small approval drops given without elaboration or explanation (All those "Solas slightly approves" quests) that the player might start to see how compassionate he can be. Most players aren't going to pay any attention to those, if they ever see them. But they are going to pay attention to how he diminishes the Dalish, how he insults the Qunari, how he condescends to the Inquisitor. It's like they intentionally swept all his good qualities off-screen, into codex entries and companion banters, and put his bad ones front and center in his approval cut-scenes and main story actions. Weekes says he wanted to make sure everyone knew Solas was kind and compassionate, but then says he added the romance so that people wouldn't see him as just a villain. Cole says Solas isn't mean, he isn't "that kind of wolf," but Solas himself stands in front of us and says he's going to destroy the world, likely with us in it, but he's not a monster, mmmkay? It makes me think that the writers have this idea of Solas that doesn't really come through in the game. And I'm not sure why that is - were they afraid too many people would like him, and tried to trot out his worst features? Did the integrity of his character suffer from a round of rewrites, and some of his more contradictory aspects are relics from when he was someone else entirely? Are the writers a bit blind to how the character would be received? Or did they simply want him to come off like an evil, selfish dick?

 

And then of course, there's the explanation that the writers seem to have a kinder view because they've got information that we don't, information that softens his character, that adds some rationality to him (or some sympathy, at the very least.) And maybe it's just desperation to believe that a character I liked hadn't simply fooled me into thinking he was moral and rational and selfless (Although I must stress this doesn't make a Solas good guy. Again, best villains, good ideas, deplorable methods) but there is a reason why nearly every debate over Solas' plans and motivations devolve into nit-picking his word choice. He's incredibly vague in what he gives us, and he admits to this himself. He tells us his basic end goal, and what the likely consequences of it are - but he doesn't tell us why that must happen, he doesn't tell us what it will help, he doesn't tell us who it will benefit, how it will happen, or even why he, specifically, wants it. Nearly everything is left in the realm of speculation. His entire dialogue could've been more succinctly summed up with "Thanks for the arm, see ya next game!" I mean, if he suspected that i had questions before, trust me, I got a hell of a lot more of them now.

 

So maybe, maybe the writers are kinder, Cole is kinder, Solas is saner, because all of them know quite a bit more than us. All of them know there's some redeeming factor to be found, and it's not just that Solas might be stopped. It's because there's some mitigating factor to it, some explanation better than "Solas is just a racist/guilt-ridden/delusional selfish jerk." And I want to believe that, not only because I want to believe Solas is a good man at heart, but because I just want to believe BioWare's better than that. I want to be able to say that they wouldn't just pull a Corypheus 2.0, that there's some moral complexity to be found here, it's not as black and white as "This dick's trying to destroy the world, how could that possibly be a good thing, how could any sane and moral individual find that an acceptable course of action." If there's nothing but negatives to be found to Solas' plan, that just sucks so much meaning out of it, not only from the plan itself but the character as well. And surely, surely BioWare knows better, surely they'd want to provide some complexity and philosophy, they've been building on this plot since Origins, no way they'll just bring down to "Evil douchebag tries to destroy world." They're better than that!

 

Or I'd like to believe they are.

 

But I don't know. And it sucks, because my entire opinion of Solas depends on my stance, but I just can't take one. I've been disappointed by too many writers in general - and too many times by BioWare in particular - to have that sort of faith.

 

...I swear to God though, if they don't manage to satisfy me with the conclusion to his arc, I'm gonna break my "Never write fanfic" rule and come up with one myself

.

 

Spoilered because somehow I ended up writing an entire essay.

[figment_]

*Sigh* I keep waffling on whether or not I should share my thoughts on this. On one hand, I'm all "Write the thing, Ely! Get your feelings off your chest! Be free!" and then on the other I'm like "God don't write the thing don't start a fight sweet jesus no." but screw it, might as well.

 

It's been nearly a month since I played Trespasser (Played it the Thursday after it was released) and I still just don't know exactly where I stand on Solas or what my feelings are. I still like him, I think, but where it's normally so easy for me to understand and categorize my feelings, here it's just this weird ball of confusion. And while I haven't had any time to replay the DLC, I have been rewatching scenes, and listening to debates, and trying to get opinions from across the spectrum on Solas and his plans. 

 

Spoiler

But recently, I read something that made it a little easier to parse out my thoughts: an article - completely unrelated to Dragon Age, mind - that said, and I quote "The best villains are the ones with the good ideas - it's their methods that make them deplorable." It made me think a lot on Solas, on reactions to him, and one where I think the writers might be going, or might be hoping for, or were trying for. Because there is a lot of negativity going around about Solas, even the folks in this thread indulge in it, and that's absolutely fair because, yeah, the guy did stand before and bald-facedly admit that he didn't think we were people, that he's going to set fire to the world, that he's going to cause the deaths of countless people in order to bring back something he thinks is better.

 

And my initial reaction was "Jesus, BioWare, really? And here I thought you learned something from how universally panned Corypheus was."

 

Which leads me back to that - people aren't upset about Solas because he's become a villain. They're upset because he's become a villain with a really bad idea. There isn't, as far as we know, much tangible benefit to his plan. He's going to bring back the world of the elves, and he's going to destroy this one to do it - but then who will be there to populate it? "The modern elves will survive," some say. "But he says 'your people will die' even to an elven Quizzie!" others retort. "Elves were spirits made flesh like Cole. He'll populate the world with them," comes another explanation. "But the Veil's going to corrupt all the spirits into demons!" And then there's "Well, there are probably a bunch more ancient elves hanging around somewhere. They'll inherit the earth." which often is met with "Where are they hiding, then? There can't possibly be enough of them." And almost every explanation is inevitably hit with "But the loss of life will be so much greater than whatever is gained."

 

Which is why the only rational explanation one can come into it with is an irrational one. "Solas is racist and wants to wipe out humans because he likes elves better." Or "Solas is guilty and wants to restore the elves because he destroyed them in the first place." And of course "Solas is delusional and he's chasing after something he can't ever hope to retrieve." All of them go back to the core that Solas' idea is awful, his plan will fail, he's not thinking logically and he needs to be stopped. But, when we see him in Trespasser, he certainly seems to be all there. He's calm, he's structured, he doesn't lose his cool or snap at our attempts to debate. He seems a man who's thought this through, and decided it to be a good plan. That's the problem. It's not. Not from our side of things, with the information we have. So to reconcile his seeming sanity with these irrational explanations, all one can come up with is "He's an evil dick who never cared about anything but his own feelings." That right there, invalidates a lot of sympathy or understanding players might feel. Because it's so hard to find something sympathetic. He never gives us anything, and he breaks that rule that the best villains have good ideas.

 

Which leads us to a question that I, at least, always try to ask myself - what did the writers intend with this content, and does that differ from how it's being received?

 

Now, it's a hard question to answer. We aren't the writers. We don't know precisely what they intended, unless they come out and tell us. But I think that, given certain things about Trespasser, and about comments made in the past, the writers were thinking they'd might get a more positive reception. There's Cole's comments, fervently defending Solas. There's Solas' own comments that he's not a monster, not a god, that he takes no joy in this. There are the comments from the writers themselves - for instance, they wanted to make sure that in the main game Solas came off as "kind and compassionate - someone who cares for everyone." And to be frank, that's bullsh!t. Solas has a lot of positive qualities, to be sure, but he does come off as condescending and ruthless and more than a little callous, and it's only through rare banters (His chess match with Chargers!Bull) easy-to-miss details (His healing those refugees in the Hinterlands) and small approval drops given without elaboration or explanation (All those "Solas slightly approves" quests) that the player might start to see how compassionate he can be. Most players aren't going to pay any attention to those, if they ever see them. But they are going to pay attention to how he diminishes the Dalish, how he insults the Qunari, how he condescends to the Inquisitor. It's like they intentionally swept all his good qualities off-screen, into codex entries and companion banters, and put his bad ones front and center in his approval cut-scenes and main story actions. Weekes says he wanted to make sure everyone knew Solas was kind and compassionate, but then says he added the romance so that people wouldn't see him as just a villain. Cole says Solas isn't mean, he isn't "that kind of wolf," but Solas himself stands in front of us and says he's going to destroy the world, likely with us in it, but he's not a monster, mmmkay? It makes me think that the writers have this idea of Solas that doesn't really come through in the game. And I'm not sure why that is - were they afraid too many people would like him, and tried to trot out his worst features? Did the integrity of his character suffer from a round of rewrites, and some of his more contradictory aspects are relics from when he was someone else entirely? Are the writers a bit blind to how the character would be received? Or did they simply want him to come off like an evil, selfish dick?

 

And then of course, there's the explanation that the writers seem to have a kinder view because they've got information that we don't, information that softens his character, that adds some rationality to him (or some sympathy, at the very least.) And maybe it's just desperation to believe that a character I liked hadn't simply fooled me into thinking he was moral and rational and selfless (Although I must stress this doesn't make a Solas good guy. Again, best villains, good ideas, deplorable methods) but there is a reason why nearly every debate over Solas' plans and motivations devolve into nit-picking his word choice. He's incredibly vague in what he gives us, and he admits to this himself. He tells us his basic end goal, and what the likely consequences of it are - but he doesn't tell us why that must happen, he doesn't tell us what it will help, he doesn't tell us who it will benefit, how it will happen, or even why he, specifically, wants it. Nearly everything is left in the realm of speculation. His entire dialogue could've been more succinctly summed up with "Thanks for the arm, see ya next game!" I mean, if he suspected that i had questions before, trust me, I got a hell of a lot more of them now.

 

So maybe, maybe the writers are kinder, Cole is kinder, Solas is saner, because all of them know quite a bit more than us. All of them know there's some redeeming factor to be found, and it's not just that Solas might be stopped. It's because there's some mitigating factor to it, some explanation better than "Solas is just a racist/guilt-ridden/delusional selfish jerk." And I want to believe that, not only because I want to believe Solas is a good man at heart, but because I just want to believe BioWare's better than that. I want to be able to say that they wouldn't just pull a Corypheus 2.0, that there's some moral complexity to be found here, it's not as black and white as "This dick's trying to destroy the world, how could that possibly be a good thing, how could any sane and moral individual find that an acceptable course of action." If there's nothing but negatives to be found to Solas' plan, that just sucks so much meaning out of it, not only from the plan itself but the character as well. And surely, surely BioWare knows better, surely they'd want to provide some complexity and philosophy, they've been building on this plot since Origins, no way they'll just bring down to "Evil douchebag tries to destroy world." They're better than that!

 

Or I'd like to believe they are.

 

But I don't know. And it sucks, because my entire opinion of Solas depends on my stance, but I just can't take one. I've been disappointed by too many writers in general - and too many times by BioWare in particular - to have that sort of faith.

 

...I swear to God though, if they don't manage to satisfy me with the conclusion to his arc, I'm gonna break my "Never write fanfic" rule and come up with one myself

.

 

Spoilered because somehow I ended up writing an entire essay.

I'm sorry, I am one of the few/only who disagree completely that he's a villian or "has a bad plan" (Please everyone, don't kill me!!! )

 

Just, for a moment, consider that what he might be saying, that everything he says in the main game and especially in Trespasser; especially to a romanced Quizzy, might be his grim and fatalistic self speaking metaphorically or figuratively...Throughout the game and the DLC, he often speaks in iambic pentameter, not to be taken literally. I posted before about this very same thing not so long ago...Why would one sentence be a metaphor and the very next in the same conversation, be literal???

 

(AHEM) Go Team Optimism!!!

[Janic99]

Spoiler

I actually saw in that seen that the hand of inky slowly is disappearing into nothing, thou.

I need to see that with cinematic tools

[Mlady]

So I'm romancing Blackwall, and is it just me or is he and Solas' romance similar? He tells you it would be a bad idea, that he's not what you think, he can't refuse you even if he wants to, and when his true identity is revealed it changes everything. I'm actually enjoying the drama in this one, and at least it can have a happy ending but it felt like deja vu.

[Moondreamer01]

*Sigh* I keep waffling on whether or not I should share my thoughts on this. On one hand, I'm all "Write the thing, Ely! Get your feelings off your chest! Be free!" and then on the other I'm like "God don't write the thing don't start a fight sweet jesus no." but screw it, might as well.

 

It's been nearly a month since I played Trespasser (Played it the Thursday after it was released) and I still just don't know exactly where I stand on Solas or what my feelings are. I still like him, I think, but where it's normally so easy for me to understand and categorize my feelings, here it's just this weird ball of confusion. And while I haven't had any time to replay the DLC, I have been rewatching scenes, and listening to debates, and trying to get opinions from across the spectrum on Solas and his plans. 

 

Spoiler

But recently, I read something that made it a little easier to parse out my thoughts: an article - completely unrelated to Dragon Age, mind - that said, and I quote "The best villains are the ones with the good ideas - it's their methods that make them deplorable." It made me think a lot on Solas, on reactions to him, and one where I think the writers might be going, or might be hoping for, or were trying for. Because there is a lot of negativity going around about Solas, even the folks in this thread indulge in it, and that's absolutely fair because, yeah, the guy did stand before and bald-facedly admit that he didn't think we were people, that he's going to set fire to the world, that he's going to cause the deaths of countless people in order to bring back something he thinks is better.

 

And my initial reaction was "Jesus, BioWare, really? And here I thought you learned something from how universally panned Corypheus was."

 

Which leads me back to that - people aren't upset about Solas because he's become a villain. They're upset because he's become a villain with a really bad idea. There isn't, as far as we know, much tangible benefit to his plan. He's going to bring back the world of the elves, and he's going to destroy this one to do it - but then who will be there to populate it? "The modern elves will survive," some say. "But he says 'your people will die' even to an elven Quizzie!" others retort. "Elves were spirits made flesh like Cole. He'll populate the world with them," comes another explanation. "But the Veil's going to corrupt all the spirits into demons!" And then there's "Well, there are probably a bunch more ancient elves hanging around somewhere. They'll inherit the earth." which often is met with "Where are they hiding, then? There can't possibly be enough of them." And almost every explanation is inevitably hit with "But the loss of life will be so much greater than whatever is gained."

 

Which is why the only rational explanation one can come into it with is an irrational one. "Solas is racist and wants to wipe out humans because he likes elves better." Or "Solas is guilty and wants to restore the elves because he destroyed them in the first place." And of course "Solas is delusional and he's chasing after something he can't ever hope to retrieve." All of them go back to the core that Solas' idea is awful, his plan will fail, he's not thinking logically and he needs to be stopped. But, when we see him in Trespasser, he certainly seems to be all there. He's calm, he's structured, he doesn't lose his cool or snap at our attempts to debate. He seems a man who's thought this through, and decided it to be a good plan. That's the problem. It's not. Not from our side of things, with the information we have. So to reconcile his seeming sanity with these irrational explanations, all one can come up with is "He's an evil dick who never cared about anything but his own feelings." That right there, invalidates a lot of sympathy or understanding players might feel. Because it's so hard to find something sympathetic. He never gives us anything, and he breaks that rule that the best villains have good ideas.

 

Which leads us to a question that I, at least, always try to ask myself - what did the writers intend with this content, and does that differ from how it's being received?

 

Now, it's a hard question to answer. We aren't the writers. We don't know precisely what they intended, unless they come out and tell us. But I think that, given certain things about Trespasser, and about comments made in the past, the writers were thinking they'd might get a more positive reception. There's Cole's comments, fervently defending Solas. There's Solas' own comments that he's not a monster, not a god, that he takes no joy in this. There are the comments from the writers themselves - for instance, they wanted to make sure that in the main game Solas came off as "kind and compassionate - someone who cares for everyone." And to be frank, that's bullsh!t. Solas has a lot of positive qualities, to be sure, but he does come off as condescending and ruthless and more than a little callous, and it's only through rare banters (His chess match with Chargers!Bull) easy-to-miss details (His healing those refugees in the Hinterlands) and small approval drops given without elaboration or explanation (All those "Solas slightly approves" quests) that the player might start to see how compassionate he can be. Most players aren't going to pay any attention to those, if they ever see them. But they are going to pay attention to how he diminishes the Dalish, how he insults the Qunari, how he condescends to the Inquisitor. It's like they intentionally swept all his good qualities off-screen, into codex entries and companion banters, and put his bad ones front and center in his approval cut-scenes and main story actions. Weekes says he wanted to make sure everyone knew Solas was kind and compassionate, but then says he added the romance so that people wouldn't see him as just a villain. Cole says Solas isn't mean, he isn't "that kind of wolf," but Solas himself stands in front of us and says he's going to destroy the world, likely with us in it, but he's not a monster, mmmkay? It makes me think that the writers have this idea of Solas that doesn't really come through in the game. And I'm not sure why that is - were they afraid too many people would like him, and tried to trot out his worst features? Did the integrity of his character suffer from a round of rewrites, and some of his more contradictory aspects are relics from when he was someone else entirely? Are the writers a bit blind to how the character would be received? Or did they simply want him to come off like an evil, selfish dick?

 

And then of course, there's the explanation that the writers seem to have a kinder view because they've got information that we don't, information that softens his character, that adds some rationality to him (or some sympathy, at the very least.) And maybe it's just desperation to believe that a character I liked hadn't simply fooled me into thinking he was moral and rational and selfless (Although I must stress this doesn't make a Solas good guy. Again, best villains, good ideas, deplorable methods) but there is a reason why nearly every debate over Solas' plans and motivations devolve into nit-picking his word choice. He's incredibly vague in what he gives us, and he admits to this himself. He tells us his basic end goal, and what the likely consequences of it are - but he doesn't tell us why that must happen, he doesn't tell us what it will help, he doesn't tell us who it will benefit, how it will happen, or even why he, specifically, wants it. Nearly everything is left in the realm of speculation. His entire dialogue could've been more succinctly summed up with "Thanks for the arm, see ya next game!" I mean, if he suspected that i had questions before, trust me, I got a hell of a lot more of them now.

 

So maybe, maybe the writers are kinder, Cole is kinder, Solas is saner, because all of them know quite a bit more than us. All of them know there's some redeeming factor to be found, and it's not just that Solas might be stopped. It's because there's some mitigating factor to it, some explanation better than "Solas is just a racist/guilt-ridden/delusional selfish jerk." And I want to believe that, not only because I want to believe Solas is a good man at heart, but because I just want to believe BioWare's better than that. I want to be able to say that they wouldn't just pull a Corypheus 2.0, that there's some moral complexity to be found here, it's not as black and white as "This dick's trying to destroy the world, how could that possibly be a good thing, how could any sane and moral individual find that an acceptable course of action." If there's nothing but negatives to be found to Solas' plan, that just sucks so much meaning out of it, not only from the plan itself but the character as well. And surely, surely BioWare knows better, surely they'd want to provide some complexity and philosophy, they've been building on this plot since Origins, no way they'll just bring down to "Evil douchebag tries to destroy world." They're better than that!

 

Or I'd like to believe they are.

 

But I don't know. And it sucks, because my entire opinion of Solas depends on my stance, but I just can't take one. I've been disappointed by too many writers in general - and too many times by BioWare in particular - to have that sort of faith.

 

...I swear to God though, if they don't manage to satisfy me with the conclusion to his arc, I'm gonna break my "Never write fanfic" rule and come up with one myself

.

 

Spoilered because somehow I ended up writing an entire essay.

I unfortunately don't have the time to go back over everything you wrote (being at work and all ), but I wanted to say something : a person's motivations will normally never be completely logical or rational. The same will happen for fictional character (unless you're talking of a robot perhaps), so I don't think it's wrong for people to say his motivation are racist, or driven by grief (which are both emotionnal and/or irrational reason). I don't believe he is racist at his core, but from all information we've been given he certain appear grief-stricken at the consequences of his mistakes.

 

Although it's not impossible to come up with a character that is, always, completely rational, most people just aren't like that. Not even millenia-old mages So, trying to find a completely logical reason for him to come up with his plan is, I think, the wrong way to look at it.

 

As for if it is a bad plan. Heck yes, it is. but I think he's too caught up in it to see it, at least for the moment.

[Janic99]

(T_T) summary of they're love and the're background story. (T_T) I hope you know what I meant to say.

yeah T_T I think I did understand what you meant! and thank you for seeing my video!

[Cee]

The thing with Solas is part of him knows his plan is not a good plan and that he is wrong but it's such a wrought, complicated decision that, for reasons, he feels resigned to. Different if he doesnt like you, but if he's a friend or romanced, there's room in what he says and his body language that he's not 100% committed and would welcome the chance to be proven wrong again and/or stopped.

 

I think it was a friend Inquisitor who chooses to try and redeem him that he says that he welcomes the chance for you to prove him wrong again. IIRC - correct me if wrong, someone.

[Mlady]

The thing with Solas is part of him knows his plan is not a good plan and that he is wrong but it's such a wrought, complicated decision that, for reasons, he feels resigned to. Different if he doesnt like you, but if he's a friend or romanced, there's room in what he says and his body language that he's not 100% committed and would welcome the chance to be proven wrong again and/or stopped.

 

I think it was a friend Inquisitor who chooses to try and redeem him that he says that he welcomes the chance for you to prove him wrong again. IIRC - correct me if wrong, someone.

 

Yes a friend Inquisitor is his only hope. He wants them to prove him wrong. The romance is lovely, but I found a friendship has the biggest chance of redeeming him. 

[Cee]

Yes a friend Inquisitor is his only hope. He wants them to prove him wrong. The romance is lovely, but I found a friendship has the biggest chance of redeeming him. 

 

I don't think that's what it means. It's just a different line, but his body language is much, much sadder and his posture lower if it's a romanced Lavellan. But since the romance is so gated, most people wouldn't see it, so the friend version had to be very clear.

[Mlady]

I don't think that's what it means. It's just a different line, but his body language is much, much sadder and his posture lower if it's a romanced Lavellan. But since the romance is so gated, most people wouldn't see it, so the friend version had to be very clear.

 

With a romanced Lavellan he says he wishes their love could surpass this (and pretty much implies it won't by his pained tone), then says he will never forget her. That's a goodbye in my eyes I guess. With a friend he says he treasures the day they prove him wrong and to live well until then.

 

It would all depend on if we really knew what he was thinking in those final moments with Lavellan.

[Cee]

With a romanced Lavellan he says he wishes their love could surpass this (and pretty much implies it won't by his pained tone), then says he will never forget her. That's a goodbye in my eyes I guess. With a friend he says he treasures the day they prove him wrong and to live well until then. It would all depend on if we really knew what he was thinking in those final moments.

 

if you choose the blue option in a romance or if you choose the broken heart to tell him everything is over, you get something similar.

 

The blue option in a romance gets you something like 'I'm going to come to stop you' and he says "I know".  The romance with the redeem option PLUS the epilogue slides is very, very hopeful, IMO.

[Janic99]

*Sigh* I keep waffling on whether or not I should share my thoughts on this. On one hand, I'm all "Write the thing, Ely! Get your feelings off your chest! Be free!" and then on the other I'm like "God don't write the thing don't start a fight sweet jesus no." but screw it, might as well.

 

It's been nearly a month since I played Trespasser (Played it the Thursday after it was released) and I still just don't know exactly where I stand on Solas or what my feelings are. I still like him, I think, but where it's normally so easy for me to understand and categorize my feelings, here it's just this weird ball of confusion. And while I haven't had any time to replay the DLC, I have been rewatching scenes, and listening to debates, and trying to get opinions from across the spectrum on Solas and his plans. 

 

Spoiler

But recently, I read something that made it a little easier to parse out my thoughts: an article - completely unrelated to Dragon Age, mind - that said, and I quote "The best villains are the ones with the good ideas - it's their methods that make them deplorable." It made me think a lot on Solas, on reactions to him, and one where I think the writers might be going, or might be hoping for, or were trying for. Because there is a lot of negativity going around about Solas, even the folks in this thread indulge in it, and that's absolutely fair because, yeah, the guy did stand before and bald-facedly admit that he didn't think we were people, that he's going to set fire to the world, that he's going to cause the deaths of countless people in order to bring back something he thinks is better.

 

And my initial reaction was "Jesus, BioWare, really? And here I thought you learned something from how universally panned Corypheus was."

 

Which leads me back to that - people aren't upset about Solas because he's become a villain. They're upset because he's become a villain with a really bad idea. There isn't, as far as we know, much tangible benefit to his plan. He's going to bring back the world of the elves, and he's going to destroy this one to do it - but then who will be there to populate it? "The modern elves will survive," some say. "But he says 'your people will die' even to an elven Quizzie!" others retort. "Elves were spirits made flesh like Cole. He'll populate the world with them," comes another explanation. "But the Veil's going to corrupt all the spirits into demons!" And then there's "Well, there are probably a bunch more ancient elves hanging around somewhere. They'll inherit the earth." which often is met with "Where are they hiding, then? There can't possibly be enough of them." And almost every explanation is inevitably hit with "But the loss of life will be so much greater than whatever is gained."

 

Which is why the only rational explanation one can come into it with is an irrational one. "Solas is racist and wants to wipe out humans because he likes elves better." Or "Solas is guilty and wants to restore the elves because he destroyed them in the first place." And of course "Solas is delusional and he's chasing after something he can't ever hope to retrieve." All of them go back to the core that Solas' idea is awful, his plan will fail, he's not thinking logically and he needs to be stopped. But, when we see him in Trespasser, he certainly seems to be all there. He's calm, he's structured, he doesn't lose his cool or snap at our attempts to debate. He seems a man who's thought this through, and decided it to be a good plan. That's the problem. It's not. Not from our side of things, with the information we have. So to reconcile his seeming sanity with these irrational explanations, all one can come up with is "He's an evil dick who never cared about anything but his own feelings." That right there, invalidates a lot of sympathy or understanding players might feel. Because it's so hard to find something sympathetic. He never gives us anything, and he breaks that rule that the best villains have good ideas.

 

Which leads us to a question that I, at least, always try to ask myself - what did the writers intend with this content, and does that differ from how it's being received?

 

Now, it's a hard question to answer. We aren't the writers. We don't know precisely what they intended, unless they come out and tell us. But I think that, given certain things about Trespasser, and about comments made in the past, the writers were thinking they'd might get a more positive reception. There's Cole's comments, fervently defending Solas. There's Solas' own comments that he's not a monster, not a god, that he takes no joy in this. There are the comments from the writers themselves - for instance, they wanted to make sure that in the main game Solas came off as "kind and compassionate - someone who cares for everyone." And to be frank, that's bullsh!t. Solas has a lot of positive qualities, to be sure, but he does come off as condescending and ruthless and more than a little callous, and it's only through rare banters (His chess match with Chargers!Bull) easy-to-miss details (His healing those refugees in the Hinterlands) and small approval drops given without elaboration or explanation (All those "Solas slightly approves" quests) that the player might start to see how compassionate he can be. Most players aren't going to pay any attention to those, if they ever see them. But they are going to pay attention to how he diminishes the Dalish, how he insults the Qunari, how he condescends to the Inquisitor. It's like they intentionally swept all his good qualities off-screen, into codex entries and companion banters, and put his bad ones front and center in his approval cut-scenes and main story actions. Weekes says he wanted to make sure everyone knew Solas was kind and compassionate, but then says he added the romance so that people wouldn't see him as just a villain. Cole says Solas isn't mean, he isn't "that kind of wolf," but Solas himself stands in front of us and says he's going to destroy the world, likely with us in it, but he's not a monster, mmmkay? It makes me think that the writers have this idea of Solas that doesn't really come through in the game. And I'm not sure why that is - were they afraid too many people would like him, and tried to trot out his worst features? Did the integrity of his character suffer from a round of rewrites, and some of his more contradictory aspects are relics from when he was someone else entirely? Are the writers a bit blind to how the character would be received? Or did they simply want him to come off like an evil, selfish dick?

 

And then of course, there's the explanation that the writers seem to have a kinder view because they've got information that we don't, information that softens his character, that adds some rationality to him (or some sympathy, at the very least.) And maybe it's just desperation to believe that a character I liked hadn't simply fooled me into thinking he was moral and rational and selfless (Although I must stress this doesn't make a Solas good guy. Again, best villains, good ideas, deplorable methods) but there is a reason why nearly every debate over Solas' plans and motivations devolve into nit-picking his word choice. He's incredibly vague in what he gives us, and he admits to this himself. He tells us his basic end goal, and what the likely consequences of it are - but he doesn't tell us why that must happen, he doesn't tell us what it will help, he doesn't tell us who it will benefit, how it will happen, or even why he, specifically, wants it. Nearly everything is left in the realm of speculation. His entire dialogue could've been more succinctly summed up with "Thanks for the arm, see ya next game!" I mean, if he suspected that i had questions before, trust me, I got a hell of a lot more of them now.

 

So maybe, maybe the writers are kinder, Cole is kinder, Solas is saner, because all of them know quite a bit more than us. All of them know there's some redeeming factor to be found, and it's not just that Solas might be stopped. It's because there's some mitigating factor to it, some explanation better than "Solas is just a racist/guilt-ridden/delusional selfish jerk." And I want to believe that, not only because I want to believe Solas is a good man at heart, but because I just want to believe BioWare's better than that. I want to be able to say that they wouldn't just pull a Corypheus 2.0, that there's some moral complexity to be found here, it's not as black and white as "This dick's trying to destroy the world, how could that possibly be a good thing, how could any sane and moral individual find that an acceptable course of action." If there's nothing but negatives to be found to Solas' plan, that just sucks so much meaning out of it, not only from the plan itself but the character as well. And surely, surely BioWare knows better, surely they'd want to provide some complexity and philosophy, they've been building on this plot since Origins, no way they'll just bring down to "Evil douchebag tries to destroy world." They're better than that!

 

Or I'd like to believe they are.

 

But I don't know. And it sucks, because my entire opinion of Solas depends on my stance, but I just can't take one. I've been disappointed by too many writers in general - and too many times by BioWare in particular - to have that sort of faith.

 

...I swear to God though, if they don't manage to satisfy me with the conclusion to his arc, I'm gonna break my "Never write fanfic" rule and come up with one myself

.

 

Spoilered because somehow I ended up writing an entire essay.

well shortly said few things:

Solas clearly said he does not WANT to do it. He feels like he HAS To do it.. why? I don't know. But we know he is doing it for his people.
Second.. writers have confirmed that Solas is both the villain and the good guy. Someone said that. I personally feel that he is not being evil guy by a choice but rather really misguided and someone who cannot see always the bigger picture and someone who thinks he is making things better but mostly keeps failing but cannot even learn from failing..

I just wrote simlified. I do have a lot more to say but I rather make a little shorter comments

[Garnet]

-cut lots of text-

I don't have a lot to add but I have this feeling that they have something much bigger planned for him. We've had so many assurances that he truly cares about people that there just -has- to be more to it than, "Well, now I'm a villain with no redeemable qualities." He cares. His plan doesn't look good from our point of view but I believe that's only because we haven't seen it from his. I really hope we get to see him in action in DA4 and get to know what he's up to and why he feels this is the only choice he has. I also think the developers are starting to understand their audience better and they know this is a huge tease and it's going to be amazing if/when all of this is revealed. I was happy with how Trespasser went even though it left me confused and baffled and wanting DA4 more than ever. 

[Mlady]

if you choose the blue option in a romance or if you choose the broken heart to tell him everything is over, you get something similar.

 

The blue option in a romance gets you something like 'I'm going to come to stop you' and he says "I know".  The romance with the redeem option PLUS the epilogue slides is very, very hopeful, IMO.

 

That bothers me. He becomes your friend at that point and it's as if you never had a romance with only that tiny bit to go by? I swear they do this on purpose!

[Moondreamer01]

That bothers me. He becomes your friend at that point and it's as if you never had a romance with only that tiny bit to go by? I swear they do this on purpose!

that might simply be techonology-driven though. How many differing path can you put there to represent all myriad of different human experiences. The just broken-up lovers, but would get back together if given the choice? Those who broke up and now want him dead. Those who broke up and are indifferent, etc. etc. At some point, if only to keep the budget acceptable, you need to make a choice. Going lover, friend, enemy, makes sense.

 

Games won't cover the whole of human experiences, as much as we wish they would. just my two cents

[Ellawynn]

I'm sorry, I am one of the few/only who disagree completely that he's a villian or "has a bad plan" (Please everyone, don't kill me!!! )

 

Just, for a moment, consider that what he might be saying, that everything he says in the main game and especially in Trespasser; especially to a romanced Quizzy, might be his grim and fatalistic self speaking metaphorically or figuratively...Throughout the game and the DLC, he often speaks in iambic pentameter, not to be taken literally. I posted before about this very same thing not so long ago...Why would one sentence be a metaphor and the very next in the same conversation, be literal???

 

(AHEM) Go Team Optimism!!!

I know, but that's my issue. We have so little to go on. All we can mine for answers are the specific words he used. It's so hard to glean anything solid from that.

 

And "villain" isn't a perfect term, since it conjures this idea of - of Jafar or Ursula or Syndrome. Some evil dick who only cares about themself. I do think - or want to think - that Solas is a good man on a very, very bad path, and that doesn't entirely match the definition of "villain," but it's an acceptable term nonetheless.

 

I unfortunately don't have the time to go back over everything you wrote (being at work and all ), but I wanted to say something : a person's motivations will normally never be completely logical or rational. The same will happen for fictional character (unless you're talking of a robot perhaps), so I don't think it's wrong for people to say his motivation are racist, or driven by grief (which are both emotionnal and/or irrational reason). I don't believe he is racist at his core, but from all information we've been given he certain appear grief-stricken at the consequences of his mistakes.

 

Although it's not impossible to come up with a character that is, always, completely rational, most people just aren't like that. Not even millenia-old mages So, trying to find a completely logical reason for him to come up with his plan is, I think, the wrong way to look at it.

 

As for if it is a bad plan. Heck yes, it is. but I think he's too caught up in it to see it, at least for the moment.

 

Yeah, I know, but I just... didn't see the "Solas is being irrational and doesn't see how terrible his plan is," come through very well. He seems guilty, yes. And the idea that it's driving his actions isn't impossible, or directly shot down, but I just don't see enough evidence to support that idea, and if that is his motivation than BioWare better make it clear in future installments. 

 

As far rational vs. irrational villains - I can agree, to an extent, but let's compare, say, Loghain and Zathrian. There's a sort of logic to Loghain's actions, even if they're terrible, and even if you think the cost is too high. He wants to secure Fereldan's future, wants to defeat the Blight, and he wants to defeat it alone. He's irrational in assuming the Grey Wardens are Orlesian puppets who have to die, but beyond that, you can clearly see his line of thinking and why he'd stoop as low as he did. 

 

Compare to Zathrian. He has no good idea. His initial act was one of revenge, and he continues on his course out of pure stubborness, even though it's bit him in the ass. He lies to and manipulates the Warden, takes revenge on people who were never to blame to begin with, and only really becomes easy to sympathize with once he sees his error and changes his tune.

 

And with Solas it particular stings because the one time he lashed out in anger, without thought, and it was towards three people directly responsible for kidnapping, enslaving, torturing and ultimately killing his friend. While I don't find murder to be an ideal course of action in that case, it's an acceptable one. It's justice, of a sort. And outside of it, every other time he seems rather rational. It seems so odd to me that he'd pick such a terrible path, unless there's something better down the road.

 

Now, I have to go for a bit so any other replies are going to wait for a while. Sorry!

[Mlady]

that might simply be techonology-driven though. How many differing path can you put there to represent all myriad of different human experiences. The just broken-up lovers, but would get back together if given the choice? Those who broke up and now want him dead. Those who broke up and are indifferent, etc. etc. At some point, if only to keep the budget acceptable, you need to make a choice. Going lover, friend, enemy, makes sense.

 

Games won't cover the whole of human experiences, as much as we wish they would. just my two cents

 

He just seems to get over it too quickly for my taste. 

 

He DID lock me in a romance for 2 years with the only chance to dump him when it's too late to romance anyone else!

[midnight tea]

*Sigh* I keep waffling on whether or not I should share my thoughts on this. On one hand, I'm all "Write the thing, Ely! Get your feelings off your chest! Be free!" and then on the other I'm like "God don't write the thing don't start a fight sweet jesus no." but screw it, might as well.

 

It's been nearly a month since I played Trespasser (Played it the Thursday after it was released) and I still just don't know exactly where I stand on Solas or what my feelings are. I still like him, I think, but where it's normally so easy for me to understand and categorize my feelings, here it's just this weird ball of confusion. And while I haven't had any time to replay the DLC, I have been rewatching scenes, and listening to debates, and trying to get opinions from across the spectrum on Solas and his plans. 

 

Spoiler

But recently, I read something that made it a little easier to parse out my thoughts: an article - completely unrelated to Dragon Age, mind - that said, and I quote "The best villains are the ones with the good ideas - it's their methods that make them deplorable." It made me think a lot on Solas, on reactions to him, and one where I think the writers might be going, or might be hoping for, or were trying for. Because there is a lot of negativity going around about Solas, even the folks in this thread indulge in it, and that's absolutely fair because, yeah, the guy did stand before and bald-facedly admit that he didn't think we were people, that he's going to set fire to the world, that he's going to cause the deaths of countless people in order to bring back something he thinks is better.

 

And my initial reaction was "Jesus, BioWare, really? And here I thought you learned something from how universally panned Corypheus was."

 

Which leads me back to that - people aren't upset about Solas because he's become a villain. They're upset because he's become a villain with a really bad idea. There isn't, as far as we know, much tangible benefit to his plan. He's going to bring back the world of the elves, and he's going to destroy this one to do it - but then who will be there to populate it? "The modern elves will survive," some say. "But he says 'your people will die' even to an elven Quizzie!" others retort. "Elves were spirits made flesh like Cole. He'll populate the world with them," comes another explanation. "But the Veil's going to corrupt all the spirits into demons!" And then there's "Well, there are probably a bunch more ancient elves hanging around somewhere. They'll inherit the earth." which often is met with "Where are they hiding, then? There can't possibly be enough of them." And almost every explanation is inevitably hit with "But the loss of life will be so much greater than whatever is gained."

 

Which is why the only rational explanation one can come into it with is an irrational one. "Solas is racist and wants to wipe out humans because he likes elves better." Or "Solas is guilty and wants to restore the elves because he destroyed them in the first place." And of course "Solas is delusional and he's chasing after something he can't ever hope to retrieve." All of them go back to the core that Solas' idea is awful, his plan will fail, he's not thinking logically and he needs to be stopped. But, when we see him in Trespasser, he certainly seems to be all there. He's calm, he's structured, he doesn't lose his cool or snap at our attempts to debate. He seems a man who's thought this through, and decided it to be a good plan. That's the problem. It's not. Not from our side of things, with the information we have. So to reconcile his seeming sanity with these irrational explanations, all one can come up with is "He's an evil dick who never cared about anything but his own feelings." That right there, invalidates a lot of sympathy or understanding players might feel. Because it's so hard to find something sympathetic. He never gives us anything, and he breaks that rule that the best villains have good ideas.

 

Which leads us to a question that I, at least, always try to ask myself - what did the writers intend with this content, and does that differ from how it's being received?

 

Now, it's a hard question to answer. We aren't the writers. We don't know precisely what they intended, unless they come out and tell us. But I think that, given certain things about Trespasser, and about comments made in the past, the writers were thinking they'd might get a more positive reception. There's Cole's comments, fervently defending Solas. There's Solas' own comments that he's not a monster, not a god, that he takes no joy in this. There are the comments from the writers themselves - for instance, they wanted to make sure that in the main game Solas came off as "kind and compassionate - someone who cares for everyone." And to be frank, that's bullsh!t. Solas has a lot of positive qualities, to be sure, but he does come off as condescending and ruthless and more than a little callous, and it's only through rare banters (His chess match with Chargers!Bull) easy-to-miss details (His healing those refugees in the Hinterlands) and small approval drops given without elaboration or explanation (All those "Solas slightly approves" quests) that the player might start to see how compassionate he can be. Most players aren't going to pay any attention to those, if they ever see them. But they are going to pay attention to how he diminishes the Dalish, how he insults the Qunari, how he condescends to the Inquisitor. It's like they intentionally swept all his good qualities off-screen, into codex entries and companion banters, and put his bad ones front and center in his approval cut-scenes and main story actions. Weekes says he wanted to make sure everyone knew Solas was kind and compassionate, but then says he added the romance so that people wouldn't see him as just a villain. Cole says Solas isn't mean, he isn't "that kind of wolf," but Solas himself stands in front of us and says he's going to destroy the world, likely with us in it, but he's not a monster, mmmkay? It makes me think that the writers have this idea of Solas that doesn't really come through in the game. And I'm not sure why that is - were they afraid too many people would like him, and tried to trot out his worst features? Did the integrity of his character suffer from a round of rewrites, and some of his more contradictory aspects are relics from when he was someone else entirely? Are the writers a bit blind to how the character would be received? Or did they simply want him to come off like an evil, selfish dick?

 

And then of course, there's the explanation that the writers seem to have a kinder view because they've got information that we don't, information that softens his character, that adds some rationality to him (or some sympathy, at the very least.) And maybe it's just desperation to believe that a character I liked hadn't simply fooled me into thinking he was moral and rational and selfless (Although I must stress this doesn't make a Solas good guy. Again, best villains, good ideas, deplorable methods) but there is a reason why nearly every debate over Solas' plans and motivations devolve into nit-picking his word choice. He's incredibly vague in what he gives us, and he admits to this himself. He tells us his basic end goal, and what the likely consequences of it are - but he doesn't tell us why that must happen, he doesn't tell us what it will help, he doesn't tell us who it will benefit, how it will happen, or even why he, specifically, wants it. Nearly everything is left in the realm of speculation. His entire dialogue could've been more succinctly summed up with "Thanks for the arm, see ya next game!" I mean, if he suspected that i had questions before, trust me, I got a hell of a lot more of them now.

 

So maybe, maybe the writers are kinder, Cole is kinder, Solas is saner, because all of them know quite a bit more than us. All of them know there's some redeeming factor to be found, and it's not just that Solas might be stopped. It's because there's some mitigating factor to it, some explanation better than "Solas is just a racist/guilt-ridden/delusional selfish jerk." And I want to believe that, not only because I want to believe Solas is a good man at heart, but because I just want to believe BioWare's better than that. I want to be able to say that they wouldn't just pull a Corypheus 2.0, that there's some moral complexity to be found here, it's not as black and white as "This dick's trying to destroy the world, how could that possibly be a good thing, how could any sane and moral individual find that an acceptable course of action." If there's nothing but negatives to be found to Solas' plan, that just sucks so much meaning out of it, not only from the plan itself but the character as well. And surely, surely BioWare knows better, surely they'd want to provide some complexity and philosophy, they've been building on this plot since Origins, no way they'll just bring down to "Evil douchebag tries to destroy world." They're better than that!

 

Or I'd like to believe they are.

 

But I don't know. And it sucks, because my entire opinion of Solas depends on my stance, but I just can't take one. I've been disappointed by too many writers in general - and too many times by BioWare in particular - to have that sort of faith.

 

...I swear to God though, if they don't manage to satisfy me with the conclusion to his arc, I'm gonna break my "Never write fanfic" rule and come up with one myself

.

 

Spoilered because somehow I ended up writing an entire essay.

 

I don't really see reason why they shouldn't intentionally hide better parts in easy-to-miss places - I quite like that aspect of the game. It's subtle, requires attention to detail and open-mindedness, so I'll always prefer that to giving us big red arrows or shouting from the heavens "he's not a bad guy! Really, he isn't! There's more merit to his plans that we actually reveal now!!" (although Cole in Trespasser was kinda pushing it "He's not that kind of wolf!" "The arrow breaks in sad wolf's jaws" Yes Cole! I get it!!).

 

Therefore no, I don't see Solas's character as not coming through exactly how they wanted him to. They've already revealed that one of reasons they let him romance only female elves is because they don't want the audience to categorize his behavior under a bad bi trope - because they knew how many people would see him. So it seems to me that they actually wanted to give the general audience something of an imbalanced picture - are they just going to see the bad and seek out to destroy him? Or are they going to look under the surface and mine out a more complete picture that will later inform their choices?

 

They did this already, on smaller scale, be it with Blackwall or Iron Bull (and on some levels with Flemeth. I've seen quite a few people after revelations in DAI and post-credit scene saying that they regret killing her in DAO)... Why shouldn't they do the same thing with Solas?

 

 

IMO they know what they want to achieve through him and it's not "a misguided guy with a really stupid plan". There's a lot we yet don't know about what's going to happen - but we do know that there are other things lurking in dark corners: the Blight's not yet done with, the Evanuris are apparently searching their way to be released, the magical races are dying out and the magic is diminishing. So there's more there that's happening that we yet see, be it when it comes to dangers to Thedas or Solas and his plans to restore the world of the elves.

 

Also - I'd like to point out something: Solas doesn't seem to mourn their lost civilization as much as the lost conscious connection of people to the Fade. All people. He seems to be unable to forgive himself that he's almost Tranquilized the world and he laments the fact that the Veil took everything from the elves - even themselves.

 

What EXACTLY these words mean we'll likely yet find out, but I think assuming that his plan has anything to do with restoring Elvenhan to its glory and release/reform a society of True Elves is nothing more than an uncharitable misinterpretation.

 

While he mourns all the knowledge and marvels lost, he wasn't squeamish about sacrificing Elvenhan when he created the Veil - so I don't see reason why he should care predominantly about it now. What seems to matter to him is restore the world how it previously was - likely restore all people's connection to the Fade, which will necessarily change the world on a fundamental level.

 

I also think that Solas thinks that there's another way, but the chances of that solution succeeding are minimal - unless Inquisitor actually does stuff that will prove him wrong and help him regain trust in people to help him save as much of the world as possible. This is likely why we have the redeem option in the first place - he's leaving the door open to help us convince him that that other way is worth its tremendous risk.

 

In any case - we're yet to find out. I expect DA4 will be all about finding out the details of his plans or more reasons for his actions, or what other dangers are there to the world... which is also likely a very big reason why many of Solas's statements are so vague; they can't really spoil the next game before it's even greenlit

[figment_]

I don't really see reason why they shouldn't intentionally hide better parts in easy-to-miss places - I quite like that aspect of the game. It's subtle, requires attention to detail and open-mindedness, so I'll always prefer that to giving us big red arrows or shouting from the heavens "he's not a bad guy! Really, he isn't! There's more merit to his plans that we actually reveal now!!" (although Cole in Trespasser was kinda pushing it "He's not that kind of wolf!" "The arrow breaks in sad wolf's jaws" Yes Cole! I get it!!).

 

Therefore no, I don't see Solas's character as not coming through exactly how they wanted him to. They've already revealed that one of reasons they let him romance only female elves is because they don't want to categorize his behavior under a bad bi trope - because they knew how many people would see him. So it seems to me that they actually wanted to give the general audience something of an imbalanced picture - are they just going to see the bad and seek out to destroy him? Or are they going to look under the surface and mine out a more complete picture that will later inform their choices?

 

They did this already, on smaller scale, be it with Blackwall or Iron Bull (and on some levels with Flemeth. I've seen a few people after revelations in DAI and post-credit scene saying that they regret killing her in DAO)... Why shoudln't they do the same thing with Solas?

 

 

IMO they know what they want to achieve through him and it's not 'a a misguided guy with a really stupid plan'. There's a lot we yet don't know about what's going to happen - but we do know that there are other things lurking in the corner, the Blight's not yet done with, the Evanuris are apparently searching their way, the magical races are dying out and the magic is diminishing. There's more there that's happening that we yet see, be it when it comes to dangers to Thedas or Solas and his plans to restore the world of the elves.

 

Also - I'd like to point out something: Solas doesn't seem to mourn their lost civilization much, as the lost conscious connection of people to the Fade. All people. He seems to be unable to forgive himself that he's almost Tranquilized the world and he laments the fact that the Veil took everything from the elves - even themselves.

 

What EXACTLY these words mean we'll likely yet find out, but I think assuming that his plan has anything to do with restoring Elvenhan to its glory and release/reform a society of True Elves is nothing more than an uncharitable misinterpretation.

 

While he mourns all the knowledge and marvels lost he wasn't squeamish about sacrificing Elvenhan when he created the Veil - so I don't see reason why he should be care predominantly about it now. What seems to matter to him is restore the world how it previously was - likely restore all people's connection to the Fade, which will necessarily change the world on a fundamental level.

 

In any case - we're yet to find out. I expect DA4 will be all about finding out the details of his plans or more reasons for his actions, or what other dangers are there to the world... which is also likely a very big reason why many of Solas's statements are so vague; they can't really spoil the next game before it's even greenlit

I you.

 

[Moondreamer01]

I don't really see reason why they shouldn't intentionally hide better parts in easy-to-miss places - I quite like that aspect of the game. It's subtle, requires attention to detail and open-mindedness, so I'll always prefer that to giving us big red arrows or shouting from the heavens "he's not a bad guy! Really, he isn't! There's more merit to his plans that we actually reveal now!!" (although Cole in Trespasser was kinda pushing it "He's not that kind of wolf!" "The arrow breaks in sad wolf's jaws" Yes Cole! I get it!!).

 

Therefore no, I don't see Solas's character as not coming through exactly how they wanted him to. They've already revealed that one of reasons they let him romance only female elves is because they don't want to categorize his behavior under a bad bi trope - because they knew how many people would see him. So it seems to me that they actually wanted to give the general audience something of an imbalanced picture - are they just going to see the bad and seek out to destroy him? Or are they going to look under the surface and mine out a more complete picture that will later inform their choices?

 

They did this already, on smaller scale, be it with Blackwall or Iron Bull (and on some levels with Flemeth. I've seen a few people after revelations in DAI and post-credit scene saying that they regret killing her in DAO)... Why shoudln't they do the same thing with Solas?

 

 

IMO they know what they want to achieve through him and it's not 'a a misguided guy with a really stupid plan'. There's a lot we yet don't know about what's going to happen - but we do know that there are other things lurking in the corner, the Blight's not yet done with, the Evanuris are apparently searching their way, the magical races are dying out and the magic is diminishing. There's more there that's happening that we yet see, be it when it comes to dangers to Thedas or Solas and his plans to restore the world of the elves.

 

Also - I'd like to point out something: Solas doesn't seem to mourn their lost civilization much, as the lost conscious connection of people to the Fade. All people. He seems to be unable to forgive himself that he's almost Tranquilized the world and he laments the fact that the Veil took everything from the elves - even themselves.

 

What EXACTLY these words mean we'll likely yet find out, but I think assuming that his plan has anything to do with restoring Elvenhan to its glory and release/reform a society of True Elves is nothing more than an uncharitable misinterpretation.

 

While he mourns all the knowledge and marvels lost he wasn't squeamish about sacrificing Elvenhan when he created the Veil - so I don't see reason why he should be care predominantly about it now. What seems to matter to him is restore the world how it previously was - likely restore all people's connection to the Fade, which will necessarily change the world on a fundamental level.

 

I also think that Solas thinks that there's another way, but the chances of that solution succeeding are minimal - unless Inquisitor actually does stuff that will prove him wrong and help him regain trust in people to help him save so much of the world as possible. This is likely why we have the redeem option in the first place - he's leaving the door open to help him make his mind about commitment to this better, albeit much riskier, solution.

 

In any case - we're yet to find out. I expect DA4 will be all about finding out the details of his plans or more reasons for his actions, or what other dangers are there to the world... which is also likely a very big reason why many of Solas's statements are so vague; they can't really spoil the next game before it's even greenlit

Thank you. That is more eloquent than anything I could come up with and I basically agree with all you said

 

Edit : And it took me until Solas talking of Ostagar before I saw the grey in Loghain's character, so Solas is definitely not the first character with hidden depths.

[Sable Rhapsody]

He just seems to get over it too quickly for my taste. 

 

He DID lock me in a romance for 2 years with the only chance to dump him when it's too late to romance anyone else!

 

Solas is the kind of person who compartmentalizes his emotions and deals with them later.  It's exactly what he does the first time he breaks it off with Lavellan and starts calling her "Inquisitor" again.

 

And I agree Moondreamer on limitations of the game.  Only fraction of the people who played DA:I did the Solas romance.  There's only so many resources they can dedicate to it, and TBH, I think they did a really good job all things considered.  Besides, if you want to romance someone else, DA4 might give you that opportunity.  If not, there's always headcanon  

[Elessara]

He just seems to get over it too quickly for my taste. 

 

He DID lock me in a romance for 2 years with the only chance to dump him when it's too late to romance anyone else!

 

You can romance other people if you break up with him during the Crestwood scene.  If you let him break up with you that locks you in but other people have done the breakup on the Inquisitor side and gone to romance others after.

[Mlady]

Solas is the kind of person who compartmentalizes his emotions and deals with them later.  It's exactly what he does the first time he breaks it off with Lavellan and starts calling her "Inquisitor" again.

 

And I agree Moondreamer on limitations of the game.  Only fraction of the people who played DA:I did the Solas romance.  There's only so many resources they can dedicate to it, and TBH, I think they did a really good job all things considered.  Besides, if you want to romance someone else, DA4 might give you that opportunity.  If not, there's always headcanon

 

I've romanced all the guys. Currently with Blackwall. Getting Solas vibes from that romance. Cullen is the most perfect and Bull is just so damn fluffy! 

 

You can romance other people if you break up with him during the Crestwood scene.  If you let him break up with you that locks you in but other people have done the breakup on the Inquisitor side and gone to romance others after.

 

Yeah but that scene's too awesome with the angry option and Cole's insight into Solas' plans are too perfect for the RPing. I can't resist. Lol I also love the angry option in Trespasser. Shuts him right up about his fear you'd leave him for being Fen'Harel.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Cullen is the most perfect and Bull is just so damn fluffy! 

 

I have many, many Bull feels after Trespasser.  He's another character that I didn't fully appreciate until I did a little digging and a lot more thinking.

 

 

You can romance other people if you break up with him during the Crestwood scene.  If you let him break up with you that locks you in but other people have done the breakup on the Inquisitor side and gone to romance others after.

 

The game locks you in so future content (ie; Trespasser) can determine whether it should play the friend or romance dialogue.  But for Lavellan's sanity, I consider the relationship broken up as of Crestwood.  Though they still clearly have feelings for each other, which is probably why none of the Inner Circle are willing to start a romance.  They know that Solas and Lavellan still have unresolved business.