153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Elessara]

So remedial math is the key to redeeming Solas.

 

DA4 protagonist: Math Wizard.  Sold. 

 

At least it's not a Spit Mage.  So, there's that.

[Mlady]

Wat

Maybe you've already answered that, but where?

 

I know she translated stuff with Solas and Morrigan, but there was more? I'm curious too.

[figment_]

I know.  And at that time, he was trying to stop the Evanuris from destroying the world (probably by releasing the Blight or the whatever causes the Blight).  What's he trying to stop now?  My money's on it still having to do with the Blight, because this is a Dragon Age game, and Blight is their main story.  It always comes back to the Blight, to the very thing DA:O opened with.  What I can't figure out is how dropping the Veil or bringing all the magic back is going to help against the Blight, if creating the Veil was supposed to help contain it in the first place.  Ack.  Makes my head hurt.

I don't think there's any reason that we should make this assumption re: the Blight (or any assumptions about the Titans, IMO) destroying the world in relation to the Veil, at least. Solas stated specifically that he constructed the Veil as a last resort to prevent the Evanuris from destroying the world...

 

On another note, I wonder how long it took to actually plan and construct the veil...I would imagine it would have taken hundreds of years and a lot of magic...and a date for the veil circa -2900 Ancient???

[susanwb]

I don't think there's any reason that we should make this assumption re: the Blight (or any assumptions about the Titans, IMO) destroying the world in relation to the Veil, at least. Solas stated specifically that he constructed the Veil as a last resort to prevent the Evanuris from destroying the world...

 

On another note, I wonder how long it took to actually plan and construct the veil...I would imagine it would have taken hundreds of years and a lot of magic...and a date for the veil circa -2900 Ancient???

 

Well, I'm basing my theory on the codex entry "Veil Fire Runes in the Deep Roads"

 

"In the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting:
"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"
For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.  The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.  A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.  Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.
A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
 

Someone data mined this and there are notes saying that Solas painted the mural, and that this was the point where he turned against the Evanuris.  That last line is Solas speaking.

 

It's in the Deep Roads, and they are close to unleashing something with the power to destroy the world.  Sure, it could be something else we don't know about, but it sounds like Blight to me.

[almasy87]

Mmh, a bit late but just saw the link with the audio file of Solas speaking Elvhen.

But I have a question. I thought that when he speaks to Viddasala in the ending video, he was using Qunlat. No? It kinda doesn't sound Elvhen to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Where is the source saying it's Elvhen, and why would she know how to reply to him then?
And what is being said exactly, if anyone knows? (Although I can imagine it..)

[Mlady]

Well, I'm basing my theory on the codex entry "Veil Fire Runes in the Deep Roads"

 

"In the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting:
"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"
For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.  The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.  A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.  Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.
A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
 

Someone data mined this and there are notes saying that Solas painted the mural, and that this was the point where he turned against the Evanuris.  That last line is Solas speaking.

 

It's in the Deep Roads, and they are close to unleashing something with the power to destroy the world.  Sure, it could be something else we don't know about, but it sounds like Blight to me.

 

Sounds like the Blight to me too. I bet Mythal was killed because she tried to stop them from mining due to the dangers. Killing the Titan did something too since lyrium is their blood and blighted makes it red, and the comment about making bodies from the earth, could they have accidentally made the Darkspawn?

[Wulfram]

I feel that we know so very little of his "plan", that making a valid negative judgement call is impossible, irrational, and illogical. We're seeing only the tip of the iceberg, so making a hasty generalization like this is, at best, presumptive, necessitating that we're making a lot of (perhaps unfounded) assumptions to validate this POV.

 

 

If someone says that their plan involves destroying the world, I think a strong presumption that this is a bad idea is reasonable.

[midnight tea]

If someone says that their plan involves destroying the world, I think a strong presumption that this is a bad idea is reasonable.

 

True. I'd be more worried if he said that it was a good idea

[Sable Rhapsody]

Mmh, a bit late but just saw the link with the audio file of Solas speaking Elvhen.

But I have a question. I thought that when he speaks to Viddasala in the ending video, he was using Qunlat. No? It kinda doesn't sound Elvhen to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Where is the source saying it's Elvhen, and why would she know how to reply to him then?
And what is being said exactly, if anyone knows? (Although I can imagine it..)

 

Solas is speaking Qunlat to the Viddasala to the best of my knowledge.  I asked for a translation a few weeks ago from the IB thread.  Here is the response.

[figment_]

Well, I'm basing my theory on the codex entry "Veil Fire Runes in the Deep Roads"

 

"In the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting:
"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"
For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.  The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.  A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.  Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.
A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
 

Someone data mined this and there are notes saying that Solas painted the mural, and that this was the point where he turned against the Evanuris.  That last line is Solas speaking.

 

It's in the Deep Roads, and they are close to unleashing something with the power to destroy the world.  Sure, it could be something else we don't know about, but it sounds like Blight to me.

Believe me, I'm not denying that the Blight was possibly being developed and/or being used as a biological weapon by the Evanuris or the Forgotten Ones...The Blight could very well be the mechanism or tool that they were using to "destroy the world". I'm just saying that the construction or deconstruction (presence/absence) of the Veil isn't directly affecting or being affected by the Blight...

 

I think the most immediate threat in a post-veil world would be the Evanuris themselves, and our focus should be on stopping the Evanuris...

[figment_]

If someone says that their plan involves destroying the world, I think a strong presumption that this is a bad idea is reasonable.

If you take everything he says literally, he's already "been there, done that!" According to what he said, he already "destroyed the world" and "killed everyone" when he created the Veil. When, in actuality, he "saved the world"...

[Cee]

True. I'd be more worried if he said that it was a good idea

 

What, this isn't Solas' theme song?

 

 

[susanwb]

Believe me, I'm not denying that the Blight was possibly being developed and/or being used as a biological weapon by the Evanuris or the Forgotten Ones...The Blight could very well be the mechanism or tool that they were using to "destroy the world". I'm just saying that the construction or deconstruction of the Veil isn't directly affecting or being affected by the Blight...

 

I think the most immediate threat in a post-veil world would be the Evanuris themselves, and our focus should be on stopping the Evanuris...

 

Ah, OK.  I get you now.

 

To me, it's not clear whether the Veil was dual or single purpose.  It clearly was the mechanism through which Fen'Harel banished the Evanuris.  He tells us as much.  But did it also perform another function of helping quarantine the Blight?  It seems possible that it did, at least to me.  The Black City in the Fade - you can never reach it, no matter how you try, unless you are in the Fade physically.  Blight was apparently contained there until the Magisters breached it.  So it seems likely that at least part of the Veil's function was to quarantine the Blight in the Black City, and prevent people entering it from the Fade.

 

They sealed the Deep Roads with "stone and magic" - that too sounds like quarantining the Blight.  But if the Blight had already spread (say, to Arlathan) then he'd have had to seal it up there, too.  In this theory, the Black City is a tainted Arlathan.

 

It fully admit, it's all speculation.  And I think you're right, that the Evanuris are the immediate threat if the Veil comes down.  So why does Solas think that 1) dropping the Veil is a better option than leaving the Veil up and 2) he can now deal with the Evanuris differently than he did before?  He won't say a word about it except "I had plans."  Yup, doesn't make me feel confident, ol' pal.

 

Editing to add:  maybe the reason he thinks it's now OK to drop the Veil is that when the Magisters breached the Black City, they defeated so much of its purpose that it now causes more harm than good?

[Mlady]

Ah, OK.  I get you now.

 

To me, it's not clear whether the Veil was dual or single purpose.  It clearly was the mechanism through which Fen'Harel banished the Evanuris.  He tells us as much.  But did it also perform another function of helping quarantine the Blight?  It seems possible that it did, at least to me.  The Black City in the Fade - you can never reach it, no matter how you try, unless you are in the Fade physically.  Blight was apparently contained there until the Magisters breached it.  So it seems likely that at least part of the Veil's function was to quarantine the Blight in the Black City, and prevent people entering it from the Fade.

 

They sealed the Deep Roads with "stone and magic" - that too sounds like quarantining the Blight.  But if the Blight had already spread (say, to Arlathan) then he'd have had to seal it up there, too.  In this theory, the Black City is a tainted Arlathan.

 

It fully admit, it's all speculation.  And I think you're right, that the Evanuris are the immediate threat if the Veil comes down.  So why does Solas think that 1) dropping the Veil is a better option than leaving the Veil up and 2) he can now deal with the Evanuris differently than he did before?  He won't say a word about it except "I had plans."  Yup, doesn't make me feel confident, ol' pal.

 

I was saying in another thread that Solas said Corypheus discovered effective immorality by body hopping. Mythal did that too and he said his people are not easy to kill. I think Arlathan is the Black City with everyone trapped and the Blight if used right can make you immortal like the Evanuris thus making you a "God" so now the question remains, who contacted the Magisters in their dreams? Who was Dumat really?

[Garnet]

I'll just leave this here.

From here (There is a download link.  )

Ohgod! I just discovered this one too:

From here

*slinks back into the shadows*

[dawnstone]

 

 

Editing to add:  maybe the reason he thinks it's now OK to drop the Veil is that when the Magisters breached the Black City, they defeated so much of its purpose that it now causes more harm than good?

That's part of my theory. One of the main purposes of the Veil was not just to contain the Evanuris, but to contain the Blight. All anyone - Solas, the Grey Wardens, Mythal - all they've been able to do is slow it down, not stop it. Having the Veil up may just be an impediment to fighting it.

[Julilla]

 

I keep thinking of that line where he says to the inquisitor, "I want you to know what we had was was real." My response to that is that well, it was real for one person, because only one of them knew what was actually happening.

 

The end of DAI left me with all the above questions, just churning angrily. Going back and replaying some of the conversations seemed to assuage some fears ... to a point. And I have to say, our interactions with Solas in Trespasser are mostly the opposite of reassuring.

 

You are right. That stuff is hurtful, really beyond heart destroying. Wondering if he really thinks you're "real" and if he does, how could he just chuck you like that. I was not kidding when I said my Lavellan wanted to jump off a cliff. 

 

My hope beyond hope is that there is an actual reason he feels he has to do this beyond "my peeps!" Because his peeps have been waiting thousands of years, they could kick it for a few more to give Solas time to learn some new things, re-evaluate life goals, have red headed freckle babies with Lavellan or whatever.

 

I just gut feeling believe that something worse than what he plans to do is coming around the bend at breakneck speed and he's got to do this quickly. I think he has the buffer of a couple of years that he's willing to take, but he knows he has to move now. When we find out what is coming, then it will make sense and everything will fit. But right now not a lot does and we have more questions than answers. That's really going to be awful for the next few years, wondering about the actual plan and the actual thoughts and feelings behind it. He really didn't have to say anything to Lavellan at all, or friend Quizzy either. We could have all been treated like D-bag Inquisitor (and wouldn't that have been the worst?!), but we weren't. That tells me BW wants to let us know more is going on than we know. Otherwise Solas wouldn't need to explain anything to us, he'd just take the Mark and kick sand in our face and take off.

 

When I played Trespasser, the kiss came and since it wasn't really clear what was happening and then it goes to black, my husband said "Aaaaanddd your boyfriend just killed you!" and for a moment, I thought he had! Now I just tell myself "At least Solas didn't kill me!" I don't know if that makes me need therapy or what, but it gives me hope. ::insert insane laughter here:::

[Cee]

I'll just leave this here.

From here (There is a download link.  )

*slinks back into the shadows*

 

 

Ending it right on the feels.

[Mlady]

That's part of my theory. One of the main purposes of the Veil was not just to contain the Evanuris, but to contain the Blight. All anyone - Solas, the Grey Wardens, Mythal - all they've been able to do is slow it down, not stop it. Having the Veil up may just be an impediment to fighting it.

 

Solas said it was just slowing things during banter with Blackwall and his panic about the OG's being killed seems to connect to this whole mess. Perhaps part of sealing the Deep Roads was having those OG in prisons, locking in something and when they all die, the wards will break?

[midnight tea]

I was saying in another thread that Solas said Corypheus discovered effective immorality by body hopping. Mythal did that too and he said his people are not easy to kill. I think Arlathan is the Black City with everyone trapped and the Blight if used right can make you immortal like the Evanuris thus making you a "God" so now the question remains, who contacted the Magisters in their dreams? Who was Dumat really?

 

Strange as it sounds (because quite a lot of people now seem to think Evanuris = Old Gods) I don' think Dumat or anyone of his ilk are Creators. Solas seems pretty convinced that they're banished forever and shall eternally pay their price for their misdeeds.... and while we're yet to see if this is true, we haven't heard anything of him saying something like "only 2 of them remained, buried under earth...".

 

Besides - the Veil was apparently created to banish the Evanuris, so when he'd have the time to imprison the Old Gods under earth, with enchanted chains that apparently even darkspawn fear? (according to excerpt from WOT2)

 

IMO they are indeed Old Gods... as in: the older generation of elvhen 'gods'. Or the Forgotten Ones - if we assume that "Forgotten One" was a name for anyone punished by Evanuris by doing something against them, so there might be a number of those, coming from many backgrounds, including powerful creatures that became extinct while Evanuris themselves ruled.

[Garnet]

Ending it right on the feels.

I added another heartbreaking one to it. (I'm so sorry!) *gives cookies and hugs*

[Mlady]

Strange as it sounds (because quite a lot of people now seem to think Evanuris = Old Gods) I don' think Dumat or anyone of his ilk are Creators. Solas seems pretty convinced that they're banished forever and shall eternally pay their price for their misdeeds.... and while we're yet to see if this is true, we haven't heard anything of him saying something like "only 2 of them remained, buried under earth...".

 

Besides - the Veil was apparently created to banish the Evanuris, so when he'd have the time to imprison the Old Gods under earth, with enchanted chains that apparently even darkspawn fear? (according to excerpt from WOT2)

 

IMO they are indeed Old Gods... as in: the older generation of elvhen 'gods'. Or the Forgotten Ones - if we assume that "Forgotten One" was a name for anyone punished by Evanuris by doing something against them, so there might be a number of those, coming from many backgrounds, including powerful creatures that became extinct while Evanuris themselves ruled.

 

If the Evanuris equaled the Old Gods, then it means we killed 5 already. That makes no sense to me. Also Mythal/Flemeth wanted to save one for the sake of keeping the old magic alive. Why would she if it was her murderer?

 

The Evanuris are likely sealed in the Black City. Chances are the ones hurting are loved ones trapped in the mirrors as Cole said. I keep thinking someone was pretending to be Dumat and lured them there to free them. I also suspect Solas' actions somehow got mixed up and he ended up being called the Maker. As Mother Giselle said, if you misread one thing it could change the whole story.

[susanwb]

If the Evanuris equaled the Old Gods, then it means we killed 5 already. That makes no sense to me. Also Mythal/Flemeth wanted to save one for the sake of keeping the old magic alive. Why would she if it was her murderer?

 

The Evanuris are likely sealed in the Black City. Chances are the ones hurting are loved ones trapped in the mirrors as Cole said. I keep thinking someone was pretending to be Dumat and lured them there to free them. I also suspect Solas' actions somehow got mixed up and he ended up being called the Maker. As Mother Giselle said, if you misread one thing it could change the whole story.

 

I agree, I don't think the Evanuris/Creators = the Old Gods, not after what we've seen in DA:I and Trespasser.

 

I could see them being the Forgotten Ones, though.  Those are some mysterious figures yet.  Although Geldauran seems to reject godhood (like Fen'Harel does, so I can see the Dalish interpreting the Dread Wolf as being welcome among them).  So maybe not them either.  Maybe Dumat and co. are yet another group of powerful ancient beings, unrelated to the elves at all.

 

Also, I have this weird recollection that Corypheus indicates that the Magisters didn't breach the Black City because they heard Dumat / the Old Gods whispering to them, but because they didn't hear them anymore.  The gods had gone silent, and they went there in search of them.  I was under the impression that the Chant had got their intentions wrong.  Have I remembered that wrong?  Anybody have a codex or quote in support/against?

[figment_]

Ah, OK.  I get you now.

 

To me, it's not clear whether the Veil was dual or single purpose.  It clearly was the mechanism through which Fen'Harel banished the Evanuris.  He tells us as much.  But did it also perform another function of helping quarantine the Blight?  It seems possible that it did, at least to me.  The Black City in the Fade - you can never reach it, no matter how you try, unless you are in the Fade physically.  Blight was apparently contained there until the Magisters breached it.  So it seems likely that at least part of the Veil's function was to quarantine the Blight in the Black City, and prevent people entering it from the Fade.

 

They sealed the Deep Roads with "stone and magic" - that too sounds like quarantining the Blight.  But if the Blight had already spread (say, to Arlathan) then he'd have had to seal it up there, too.  In this theory, the Black City is a tainted Arlathan.

 

It fully admit, it's all speculation.  And I think you're right, that the Evanuris are the immediate threat if the Veil comes down.  So why does Solas think that 1) dropping the Veil is a better option than leaving the Veil up and 2) he can now deal with the Evanuris differently than he did before?  He won't say a word about it except "I had plans."  Yup, doesn't make me feel confident, ol' pal.

 

Editing to add:  maybe the reason he thinks it's now OK to drop the Veil is that when the Magisters breached the Black City, they defeated so much of its purpose that it now causes more harm than good?

I just don't see enough evidence for a direct correlation between the construction of the veil and stopping the Blight... **shrugs shoulders**

 

Although I believe that it would be exceptionally cool for Arlathan=Black City, I think the canon lore that we have, unfortunately contradicts that. According to the timeline in WOT, the quickening (caused by construction of the Veil) was first noticed in -2850 Ancient. The fall of Arlathan occured almost 2000 years later, in -975 Ancient.

 

I plan to reply further in a bit...

[Mlady]

Also, I have this weird recollection that Corypheus indicates that the Magisters didn't breach the Black City because they heard Dumat / the Old Gods whispering to them, but because they didn't hear them anymore.  The gods had gone silent, and they went there in search of them.  I was under the impression that the Chant had got their intentions wrong.  Have I remembered that wrong?  Anybody have a codex or quote in support/against?

 

Wait! That's what happened to the elves! The Archivist recounts their final moments and as the elves begged their gods to save them, they said they had grown silent because of the Veil. I bet the Veil silenced the Old Gods too.