I need some timeline help! Solas said he awoke a year before Inquisition, so does that mean he was awake at the end of Act 3 in DA2?
No, Anders blew up the chantry in 9:37. DAI opens in 9:41, making Solas' awakening sometime in 9:40.
Both Asunder and The Masked Empire take place in 9:40.
June perhaps? He's remembered as the god of craft so it would make sense.
Perhaps the Titan's song clashes with the song the Darkspawns hear from the Taint and it gives them a headache
or more seriously that makes them confused and serves to repulse them.
And...the only people who could possibly know the answer, or have the knowledge to stop or repel the Blight, are Solas, Mythal and possibly the Evanuris...???
June perhaps? He's remembered as the god of craft so it would make sense.
Perhaps the Titan's song clashes with the song the Darkspawns hear from the Taint and it gives them a headache
Hmm, maybe each Titan has it's own song, and each Titan has its own territory, and the one the Darkspawn hear is from the Blighted Titan. So maybe they hear some sort of warning from the Blighted Titan to stay away from the other Titan's territory. Or something like that.
I suppose my issue with hiding things in out-of-the-way places, especially with major aspects of even more major character, is that it's so easy to see things that aren't even there. Like, you can only dig so deep before you've got to ask yourself "Is this actually supported by the text or am I just seeing what I want to see?" I don't want to over-idealize a character only to be blindsided by their faults - which is basically what happened with Trespasser. I remember, after it was announced but before it came out, I had this talk with a friend and I said "There's no way they'll just have Solas waltz in at the end, hack off the Inquisitor's arm, cackle about his evil plot to destroy the world, and then exit stage left." Man, that made for one awkward post-Trespasser conversation.
As for Weekes Depraved Bisexual comment - it does give me hope that he's more aware than his "We wanted it to be clear that Solas cares about everyone" remark would suggest. But really, hope only goes so far, and like I've said, I've been disappointed by too many writers in the past to go on hope alone.
... Can you imagine how blind-sighted people who didn't play DAI will be? I have my doubts that we'd be building the same kind of relationship with him throughout DA4 (assuming it will be focused on Solas, though I don't see the reason why it shouldn't) - heck, it's pretty much impossible. The wolf's out of the sheep's skin.
Now we can only move forward, with the threat to the world Solas poses - and I suspect Bioware will do little to dissuade people from thinking that he's a relatively straightforward threat to fight... and if they do, it will not happen in an overt kind of way. This series seems to be all about nuance and additional information - heck, some of it is even in additional materials, or comics, or books or in past games. They aren't shy of making us dig for information. It adds to replayability and sells all the additional stuff, so it's actually not that silly of a strategy, even from financial perspective 
Not to mention that, if he knew people would see Solas as depraved and evil and did nothing to prevent that, well, it doesn't exactly assuage my fear that those of us who still like him are unexpected anomalies.
The unexpected anomaly seems to be Solas himself 
He IS supposed to be the antagonist of the next game. We aren't supposed to feel TOO sympathetic - it would miss the point if we sympathized with Solas outright, or didn't intend to stop him
I also don't see us as unexpected anomalies - unless we're as unexpected anomalies as people who actually finish the game. Most people don't even do that. If I remember statistics correctly 20-30% reach the endgame, and that's not just massive RPGs, with the rate of those reaching the finish line being even lower. Majority of people then don't even bother to sink their teeth in the story, much less think about nuances of it. I assume therefore that the rate of those who kill Solas in DA4 (5?) will be much higher than those who'd save him... At least at first?
I've wondered myself if that's where they're going. If they're intentionally trying to trick people into thinking he's an irredeemable villain, so that they can surprise them later. I hope that's the case, but there's that thing about hope again.
Oh yeah, I don't think Solas wants to bring back Elvhenan either. Really, even with my pessimisstic outlook, some of the comments made about Solas are just like... Did we play the same game? Are we talking about the same character here? Like, I know Solas makes some untoward comments about humans and Qunari, but nothing about him suggested to me that he wants to wipe them from existence, or bring elves back to the top, and I mean, hell, he's not exactly all sunshine and rainbows when he talks about Elvhenan either. I figured it's obvious that it's the magic and spirits and immortality he wants back. He's no trying to restore Elvhenan. He's certainly not trying to restore Elvhenan precisely as it was, complete with eternal slavery and rampant murder and abusive god-kings. I don't know how people arrive at that conclusion.
I was just trying to cover the gamut of all the theories I've seen on him, even the ones I highly disagree with.
Yeah, sadly that's the thing - there are people... dunno how many of them there are, but they can be very vocal, who'd just deem him villain without ever looking at his motivations, just because he can't be easily categorized. Thinking in black-and-white categories is just so much simpler...
I mean, many people apparently wanted to lop his head off after post-credit reveal, when we didn't yet know his full motivations with any sort of certainty (though Trespasser basically confirmed what I thought is happening), but simply for lying to the player about the whole ancient elfy/Dread Wolf thing. If they wanted to punish him for that, then there's no wonder that they compare him to Hitler and the plague.
Though some of us do suspect that it has more to do with the wounded player's ego - he hid his motives and alias, he infiltrated Inquisition (though ironically that actually saved the South from the Qunari invasion) and basically played us like a pawn on a chess-board. So I suspect a lot of people want him dead not because they're motivated by concern for Thedas, but because Solas slighted them.
...I probably sound like I'm on the brink of hating him, don't I? Probably shouldn't have abused the phrase "evil dick" so much. But for the record - I'm not. I don't think I could ever hate him. I don't think I've ever hated any character, especially not for moral reasons, and especially not one I like as much as this jerkface. I think it's better to say that my understanding of his character is on the brink of falling into two radically different camps, and I while I'll probably still like him either way, I'd definitely prefer one over the other.
That and I was trying to explain why some people might think what they think about Solas. So I was trying to channel every opinion and reaction to him, not just the favorable ones, and not just my own.
No, not at all Majority of us here sticks to Solas thread because we genuinely enjoy his character, but even among us there are... even if not necessarily disagreements, then certainly there's an in-depth discussions about his motivations or possibility that his character and agenda are much darker and deeds less forgivable than what we generally here assume they are/can be. 'Conflicting emotions' is certainly something every person here is very familiar with.
In fact, that's probably the reason why most of us stick to this thread or discuss him in the first place. Solas is meant to be polarizing and provide us with reasons to discuss DA and its future, while we wait for another game. In that regard I think DA devs have succeeded: those of us interested with the story certainly won't just drop everything DA-related hibernate till the next chapter. At least... not in very near future 
No, Anders blew up the chantry in 9:37. DAI opens in 9:41, making Solas' awakening sometime in 9:40.
Both Asunder and The Masked Empire take place in 9:40.
Thanks! I was curious about the whole Sandal thing and wondered if it was already happening or not. He was obviously speaking of Solas.
And...the only people who could possibly know the answer, or have the knowledge to stop or repel the Blight, are Solas, Mythal and possibly the Evanuris...???
I doubt the evanuris ever knew at the time, according to the panicked part of that codex in the Deep Road in Trespasser. Mythal on the other hand might have a plan involving dragons and she's experimented with Calenhad's line for some reason (see if it would make them more resistant maybe?). As for Solas, I have no idea if he knows how.
It wasn't entirely selfish. She does have good intentions but is like the WORST at helping. Sort of like Solas. She will sacrifice her people for what she views as the greater good. So the ends justify the means. Which is why Fellassan told Solas that she reminded him(fellassan) of Solas.
So that's it then? The only two characters in the entire game that actually give a nug's rump about the elves just make things worse instead of better, so in order to keep them from making things worse we have to stop them from trying to make things better but not actually put forward any ideas ourselves, so the world just stays sucky for elves.
I live with eggs falling on my face all the time in real life, glad to see I can come home to have it happen in the games as well.
I doubt the evanuris ever knew at the time, according to the panicked part of that codex in the Deep Road in Trespasser. Mythal on the other hand might have a plan involving dragons and she's experimented with Calenhad's line for some reason (see if it would make them more resistant maybe?). As for Solas, I have no idea if he knows how.
But, out of everyone alive in Thedas, these immortals may be the only beings with enough knowledge and understanding to find a way to stop the Blight, especially if one of the Evanuris (I'm looking at YOU, Ghilly! ) created it...
Wait, so Briala was just in it for her own power? Or prioritized her power, at least?
Huh... Actually, I feel really vindicated about this. I never trusted that chick. I read all this fanfic with these bright-eyed Lavellans who stick Briala on the throne to help the elves, but mine, every siren in her head went off as soon as Briala walked in.
That and... jeez, I just adore the "You all work for me" ending, especially paired with talking Florienne down in front of the whole court. It's like "Yes, hello, I'm Inquisitor Lavellan, I'm here to beat you at your own Game and look prettier doing it."
'Sides, I can trust my Lavellan to try and help the elves. Can't say the same for anyone else.
That's... Isn't this exactly what Solas thinks? 
It wasn't entirely selfish. She does have good intentions but is like the WORST at helping. Sort of like Solas. She will sacrifice her people for what she views as the greater good. So the ends justify the means. Which is why Fellassan told Solas that she reminded him(fellassan) of Solas.
So that's it then? The only two characters in the entire game that actually give a nug's rump about the elves just make things worse instead of better, so in order to keep them from making things worse we have to stop them from trying to make things better but not actually put forward any ideas ourselves, so the world just stays sucky for elves.
I live with eggs falling on my face all the time in real life, glad to see I can come home to have it happen in the games as well.
I don't think it's quite that dark. The description under Briala wasn't quite as strongly-worded as to say she's only ever looking for herself. But, she has her weaknesses and is described as quite human. Also, I don't think stopping a bad plan means bringing back the status quo (although I see where that thought comes from as it's often the case in narrative like for example many superhero comics where they are pretty much fighting to keep the established order). There are ways to move forward and to change. Our choices in Halamshiral offered that, be it with Briala puppeteering Gaspard or working with Celene. Same with what we did for the mages to use another example. It's only that, up until now, we've not seen violent change doing much other than create chaos, so other solutions need to be found.
In a way, DA's writer are telling us violence (unless it's fighting darkspawns ) isn't the answer to Thedas' woes. It's a message that resonnates with me. Change, real change, only comes with time and effort, not violence. I'd love the elves going into non-violent protest, personnally They're everywhere. If they refused to work as servants anymore, Orlais would grind to a halt lol.
So that's it then? The only two characters in the entire game that actually give a nug's rump about the elves just make things worse instead of better, so in order to keep them from making things worse we have to stop them from trying to make things better but not actually put forward any ideas ourselves, so the world just stays sucky for elves.
I live with eggs falling on my face all the time in real life, glad to see I can come home to have it happen in the games as well.
But that's not it then. As someone pointed out above, those character outlines were from early on and characters and their arcs can change over time. Maybe Briala isn't that way now. Maybe she's really not going to make things worse. We won't know until the next game. Also we don't know that putting up the Veil was the worst option - it may have been the least suckiest option Solas had at the time. We also don't know that bringing down the Veil is the worst idea either. I *hope* we can come up with a compromise between "kill everyone/lots of people" and "leave everything exactly the way it is" with Solas. But, as with everything with this game, we just don't have enough information to conclude that everyone is bad and should feel bad or that everyone who tries to help screws things up instead.
So, I've been slogging through my last incomplete Lavellen playthrough (my warrior lady Solana) and I went to the Emerald Graves to jump on the Tiniest Cave and trigger the quest to get my flower crown. And I heard again the mysterious occupant's lines:
"Deviating from the plan. No accounting for whimsy. Small variations lead to fatal consequences. I'm sorry."
"He'll remake the world to suit his desires. His chosen to rule."
"Drawing back the curtain. Let the light in, let it burn!"
"Bring faith, bring hope, bring a dream of life!"
This is the Easter Egg prophecy for DA:I. It's clearly about Solas. Including, I think, the path to redemption for him (us): Bring faith, bring hope, bring a dream of life!
But that's not it then. As someone pointed out above, those character outlines were from early on and characters and their arcs can change over time. Maybe Briala isn't that way now. Maybe she's really not going to make things worse. We won't know until the next game. Also we don't know that putting up the Veil was the worst option - it may have been the least suckiest option Solas had at the time. We also don't know that bringing down the Veil is the worst idea either. I *hope* we can come up with a compromise between "kill everyone/lots of people" and "leave everything exactly the way it is" with Solas. But, as with everything with this game, we just don't have enough information to conclude that everyone is bad and should feel bad or that everyone who tries to help screws things up instead.
Actually, we do know that he at least believes it was the least suckiest option he had at the time, because he tells us so and Solas (although he'll omit to tell all the truth) doesn't outright lies.
I don't think it's quite that dark. The description under Briala wasn't quite as strongly-worded as to say she's only ever looking for herself. But, she has her weaknesses and is described at quite human. Also, I don't think stopping a bad plan means bringing back the status quo (although I see where that thought comes from as it's often the case in narrative like for example many superhero comics who are pretty much fighting to keep the established order). There are ways to move forward and to change. Our choices in Halamshiral soffered that, be it with Briala puppeteering Gaspard or working with Celene. Same with what we did for the mages to use another example. It's only that, up until now, we've not seen violent change doing much other than create chaos, so other solutions need to be found.
In a way, DA's writer are telling us violence (unless it's fighting darkspawns
I do agree about change, time and effort, and BW making a point about that... fortunately (unfortunately? Depends on perspective) Bioware doesn't have an entirely idealistic approach to it and shows us that sometimes indeed change - or opportunity for it - is born out of drastic circumstances.
I mean... how Inquisition was founded? How did Inquisitor rise to power to be the leader of change?
... By exploding an entire mountaintop and a temple full of people - many of them quite important.
In fact, I still have to laugh at the irony of Corypheus doing the world more good than bad (in the long run), by 'saving' us from Solas's original plan, uniting people and basically founding the Inquisition I can't really be 'angry' at BW for making Cory a somewhat straightforward 'arrrgh! I'm a villain!', when it comes with a twist this delicious.
So, I've been slogging through my last incomplete Lavellen playthrough (my warrior lady Solana) and I went to the Emerald Graves to jump on the Tiniest Cave and trigger the quest to get my flower crown. And I heard again the mysterious occupant's lines:
"Deviating from the plan. No accounting for whimsy. Small variations lead to fatal consequences. I'm sorry."
"He'll remake the world to suit his desires. His chosen to rule."
"Drawing back the curtain. Let the light in, let it burn!"
"Bring faith, bring hope, bring a dream of life!"
This is the Easter Egg prophecy for DA:I. It's clearly about Solas. Including, I think, the path to redemption for him (us): Bring faith, bring hope, bring a dream of life!
I got that too! I agree it is most likely Solas, though his plans to rule make it sound like he has motives beyond good intentions too.
Also that voice scared me out of my skin the first time I heard it! It was louder than my companions.
I do agree about change, time and effort, and BW making a point about that... fortunately (unfortunately? Depends on perspective) Bioware doesn't have an entirely idealistic approach to it and shows us that sometimes indeed change - or opportunity for it - is born out of drastic circumstances.
I mean... how Inquisition was founded? How did Inquisitor rise to power to be the leader of change?
... By exploding an entire mountaintop and a temple full of people - many of them quite important.
In fact, I still have to laugh at the irony of Corypheus doing the world more good than bad (in the long run), by 'saving' us from Solas's original plan, uniting people and basically founding the Inquisition
LOL Well, it's still a fantasy rpg and if we didn't get to kill some stuff that would be boring
I got that too! I agree it is most likely Solas, though his plans to rule make it sound like he has motives beyond good intentions too.
Also that voice scared me out of my skin the first time I heard it! It was louder than my companions.
Agreed! That voice is soooo creepy!
And I doubt Solas/Fen'Harel's motives are entirely pure. Whose are? He believes he's doing the right thing, albeit at great cost. But that doesn't mean he's right.
Agreed! That voice is soooo creepy!
And I doubt Solas/Fen'Harel's motives are entirely pure. Whose are? He believes he's doing the right thing, albeit at great cost. But that doesn't mean he's right.
I think he wants to remake the world in his vision and rule it and because of his pride he thinks he can do it better.
I think he wants to remake the world in his vision and rule it and because of his pride he thinks he can do it better.
If the prophecy is right and about Solas then I don't know if he'd be ruling it - after all the voice is clear: his chosen are to rule.
If the prophecy is right and about Solas then I don't know if he'd be ruling it - after all the voice is clear: his chosen are to rule.
I just have this suspicion something's not quite right with Solas. And His Chosen to Rule sounds like it's saying the world he chooses is what he'll rule.
I just have this suspicion something's not quite right with Solas. And His Chosen to Rule sounds like it's saying the world he chooses is what he'll rule.
I took that to mean his chosen People will rule it. As for Solas, I don't think he expects to survive the lifting of the veil, seeing as he tells Lavellan he walks the Path of Death.
*grabs Solas by the ear, drags him to blanket fort for a long talk*
That part about the fire reminds me of Eleni Zinovia's prophecy.
"And I shall endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again"
I took that to mean his chosen People will rule it. As for Solas, I don't think he expects to survive the lifting of the veil, seeing as he tells Lavellan he walks the Path of Death.
*grabs Solas by the ear, drags him to blanket fort for a long talk*
Give him what-for, Cee! Especially since poor Solana is going off to the Temple of Mythal tonight. After which, Solas will promptly break her heart. She's a tough one, but that's going to be a hard night.
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