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[Sable Rhapsody]

One reason why he needs Cole, IMO. I don’t know, I am like that for people so I understand the stubbornness some can have. And that aspect of Solas is very frustrating. But there's hope.

 

Cole definitely helps Solas. But even with Cole's quest, listen to Solas's dialogue vs. Varric's. Varric says "he" a lot.  He, meaning Cole, needs to remember.  He came into this world to be a person.  He can grow.

 

Solas, at least initially, says a lot of "I."  I do not abuse spirits with bindings.  I do not practice blood magic.  He genuinely wants what's best for Cole, but again, he's coming at it from his perspective and not Cole's.  Cole would rather have Solas bind him than be turned against the Inquisition.  I think Solas understands Cole's predicament, but not the terrible fear that drives it.  He's sympathetic rather than empathetic.

[midnight tea]

Cole definitely helps Solas. But even with Cole's quest, listen to Solas's dialogue vs. Varric's. Varric says "he" a lot.  He, meaning Cole, needs to remember.  He came into this world to be a person.  He can grow.

 

Solas, at least initially, says a lot of "I."  I do not abuse spirits with bindings.  I do not practice blood magic.  He genuinely wants what's best for Cole, but again, he's coming at it from his perspective and not Cole's.  Cole would rather have Solas bind him than be turned against the Inquisition.  I think Solas understands Cole's predicament, but not the terrible fear that drives it.  He's sympathetic rather than empathetic.

 

I think it's a bit more than that - not that many good spirits remained; he told us that via banter. I think that's actually one of main reasons he's horrified with the Veiled world and concerned about the future - negative emotions and sentiments outweigh the good ones, giving rise to more 'negative' spirits, which then influence the waking world or are born to it, basically turning the whole thing into one big vicious circle where eventually only negative things remain.

 

So, Solas seems to be genuinely terrified of losing yet another 'good'/gentle spirit - be it to blood binding that may erase Cole's consciousness, or him possibly being 'lost' after becoming human/mortal (since he's not really convinced the strength or nature of spirit won't be twisted or diminished that way... though apparently approved Inky proved him wrong), hence he disapproved of it.

[S.W.]

Edit* Shallow Waters - Wow, I wish I could go have coffee with you and listen to all the things you had to say : O. I have written about mental illness with a primary focus on trauma. Trauma is fascinating. We now know that it literally changes the brain structure (and also that broken synopsis' can be reconnected!) So... to stay on topic... if any of your Lavellan's go bat-shite insane, there. Justified.

 

Well, if you're ever in Birmingham (England, not Alabama) for whatever reason, I'll take you up on that offer of coffee. Not sure why you would though, it's grey and rainy and miserable here . Trauma is a really fascinating area of study though, I've heard that it dramatically alters our brains, but didn't know your brain could recover like that. It's actually quite comforting to know we're more resilient than we may think.

 

I wouldn't worry about being off topic. I think about 10% of what I post is on topic, haha.

[drosophila]

Varric thinks like a friend. His main concern is Cole's desires, what he came in this world to be, his chance to grow be a more complex human being, rather than the simpler (but not inferior!) spirit.

Solas thinks like a leader. He looks at the big picture and how Cole fits in it, as a rate spirit of very gentle nature, as the only spirit in the Inquisition, as a spirit who will be protected by binding if he can shred more of his human side to get the amulet to work, as a spirit that could help many people. For him once again it's pragmatism and the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few.

[Elessara]

Varric thinks like a friend. His main concern is Cole's desires, what he came in this world to be, his chance to grow be a more complex human being, rather than the simpler (but not inferior!) spirit.

Solas thinks like a leader. He looks at the big picture and how Cole fits in it, as a rate spirit of very gentle nature, as the only spirit in the Inquisition, as a spirit who will be protected by binding if he can shred more of his human side to get the amulet to work, as a spirit that could help many people. For him once again it's pragmatism and the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few.

 

Varric is also looking at it from a slightly wrong perspective.  Varric says that Cole came into the world to be a person (spirits aren't people to Varric) except Cole didn't  He came into this world to help someone else, to ease someone else's suffering.  Cole didn't necessarily want to be human but at the time he felt becoming Cole was the only way he actually could help.

 

I'm not really arguing for or against anyone's points here, it's just when Varric said that Cole came to the physical world to be a person my first thoughts have always been, 1) No, Cole came across to help someone and 2) Cole was already a person, just not human, dwarf, elf or qunari.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Varric thinks like a friend. His main concern is Cole's desires, what he came in this world to be, his chance to grow be a more complex human being, rather than the simpler (but not inferior!) spirit.

Solas thinks like a leader. He looks at the big picture and how Cole fits in it, as a rate spirit of very gentle nature, as the only spirit in the Inquisition, as a spirit who will be protected by binding if he can shred more of his human side to get the amulet to work, as a spirit that could help many people. For him once again it's pragmatism and the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few.

 

I agree, and I want to stress that there's nothing inherently wrong with the way Solas thinks, nor does it mean he's unkind to others.  I mean, this is the guy who bleeds approval for most of the Hinterlands, and is close friends with a spirit of Compassion.  It just means that he has a harder time looking at things from a different person's perspective.  Even Cole and romanced Lavellan, the two members of the Inquisition who "get" him better than most.

 

And Varric freely admits that there are problems with how he does things.  He'd be a terrible spymaster, for starters.  And his natural empathy for people makes him a great author, but honestly a bit of an enabler when it comes to his friends and loved ones.

[S.W.]

I meant to comment earlier but got side tracked. Best Elf! So sad, but still...I wonder if there is information in the Book of Seekers on reversing something like this.I realize he was severed in the Fade but we know so little about it and spirits seem to be able to restore nearly everything. It could happen the same way. Like Carl meeting with Anders and Justice.

 

I don't have an AO3 account but would like to join. My FF.net story will drift toward smut I can't seem to help it, but the 'clean' version has to be left clean because my kids want to read it. My son is hounding me for the next chapter. He's 23 and has called like 3 times today.

 

"Mom! Your killing me! I need to read moar!"

"Ir abelas da'len"

"Argh! You evil woman."

 

It usually takes less than a few days for you to get an invite to AO3, so you could post you fic in both places if you'd like.

 

Also, I love that your family all plays dragon age. That's so cool. My Dad can't even work a smartphone, and he's an IT technician.

 

I think it's a bit more than that - not that many good spirits remained; he told us that via banter. I think that's actually one of main reasons he's horrified of Veiled world and concerned about the future - negative emotions and sentiments outweigh the good ones, giving rise to more 'negative' spirits, which then influence the waking world or are born to it, basically turning the whole thing into one big vicious circle where eventually only negative things remain.

 

So, Solas seems to be genuinely terrified of losing yet 'good'/gentle spirit - be it to blood binding that may erase Cole's consciousness, or him possibly being lost after becoming human/mortal (since he's not really convinced the strength or nature of spirit won't be twisted or diminished that way... though apparently approved Inky proved him wrong), hence he disapproved of it.

Varric thinks like a friend. His main concern is Cole's desires, what he came in this world to be, his chance to grow be a more complex human being, rather than the simpler (but not inferior!) spirit.

Solas thinks like a leader. He looks at the big picture and how Cole fits in it, as a rate spirit of very gentle nature, as the only spirit in the Inquisition, as a spirit who will be protected by binding if he can shred more of his human side to get the amulet to work, as a spirit that could help many people. For him once again it's pragmatism and the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few.

 

I think these are all really good points of contrast. I'd like to add. Solas is much more directive: he's telling Cole what to do. Varric is much more supportive: he's suggesting what to do, instead.

 

On the one hand, I like Varric's approach much more - it's more empathetic and encourages Cole to think about what's best for him, and likely would be healthier for him in real life, but ultimately I think Solas is probably right.

 

Spirits are also people, they have autonomy, will, etc. spirits just express themselves radically differently to humans. And that's ok. It doesn't make Cole 'less' in any way. If anything, pushing for Cole to become more human may be taking a huge risk - i.e. spirits and demons are not very distinct, and it's possible with contact in the world Cole could become more demonic than human. In fact, I'm surprised that Varric takes this approach, after watching the walking magical trainwreck that was Anders destroy the Kirkwall Chantry. This risk is wholly unnecessary, too: Cole is completely fine as his spirity self. Varric's repeated assumption that Cole wants to be human because he came here is very sketchy.

[S.W.]

And Varric freely admits that there are problems with how he does things.  He'd be a terrible spymaster, for starters.  And his natural empathy for people makes him a great author, but honestly a bit of an enabler when it comes to his friends and loved ones.

 

Doesn't he actually run a spy network, though? It's in one of the first investigate dialogues you have with him, where you ask what he actually does.

[Elessara]

I agree, and I want to stress that there's nothing inherently wrong with the way Solas thinks, nor does it mean he's unkind to others.  I mean, this is the guy who bleeds approval for most of the Hinterlands, and is close friends with a spirit of Compassion.  It just means that he has a harder time looking at things from a different person's perspective.  Even Cole and romanced Lavellan, the two members of the Inquisition who "get" him better than most.

 

And Varric freely admits that there are problems with how he does things.  He'd be a terrible spymaster, for starters.  And his natural empathy for people makes him a great author, but honestly a bit of an enabler when it comes to his friends and loved ones.

 

It's kind of funny how Solas, who doesn't even really see people as people (yet) approves of you helping everyone and their dog but Sera who says she's all about helping the little people doesn't seem to care at all when you help them.

 

Not to say anything against Sera, I do actually like her.  It may have just been an oversight on the part of the devs.

 

On another note ... just got to the Arbor Wilds and I'm standing right outside the Temple of Mythal.  There are two HUGE Fen'Harel statues just up the stairs and two smaller (yet still large) Fen'Harel statues guarding the actual doorway.  I wonder what Solas thinks whenever he sees these statues dedicated to him.  I wonder if he mentally sighs and rolls his eyes or something.

[drosophila]

Doesn't he actually run a spy network, though? It's in one of the first investigate dialogues you have with him, where you ask what he actually does.

 

Everyone's a spy in the Inquisition - Varric, Lavellan, Leliana, Solas, Iron Bull, Sera are all part of or in charge of their own networks. I headcanon that when Lavellan meets them, she automatically asks, "So who do you spy for?"

[_Lucinia]

It's kind of funny how Solas, who doesn't even really see people as people (yet) approves of you helping everyone and their dog but Sera who says she's all about helping the little people doesn't seem to care at all when you help them.

 

I could have sworn Sera always gave me approval when I helped people.  Saving most of the Hinterlands until after you recruit her was always a good way to pad her approval rating before you do things she doesn't like, like exiling the Wardens.

 

Solas sees everyone as not people gremlins, but he still values kindness and compassion.  Those things are still important even if he plans on destroying everything.  He says in Trespasser that he wants everyone to have some comfort in the time that is left.

[Elessara]

I could have sworn Sera always gave me approval when I helped people.  Saving most of the Hinterlands until after you recruit her was always a good way to pad her approval rating before you do things she doesn't like, like exiling the Wardens.

 

Solas sees everyone as not people gremlins, but he still values kindness and compassion.  Those things are still important even if he plans on destroying everything.  He says in Trespasser that he wants everyone to have some comfort in the time that is left.

 

Oh, good.  I admit I didn't save every quest until after I got her but I did do some when she was in the party and I didn't get anything so I was like o.O

 

But if she does approve, at least on most, that makes a lot more sense.

[drosophila]

snip Varric vs Solas

 

 

snip Varric vs Solas

 

 

snip Varric vs Solas

 

I don't think either of them is wrong, IMO it's the ultimate grey choice in the game. 

 

In many ways Varric is the antithesis of Solas in the game. Past versus present. Leadership versus friendship. Mistrust vs openness. Perseverence versus acceptance. So I think one of the main functions of Cole's personal mission is to juxtapose these two and put emphasis on their differences, which are further developed in the party banter. 

[RynJ]

Cole definitely helps Solas. But even with Cole's quest, listen to Solas's dialogue vs. Varric's. Varric says "he" a lot.  He, meaning Cole, needs to remember.  He came into this world to be a person.  He can grow.

 

Solas, at least initially, says a lot of "I."  I do not abuse spirits with bindings.  I do not practice blood magic.  He genuinely wants what's best for Cole, but again, he's coming at it from his perspective and not Cole's.  Cole would rather have Solas bind him than be turned against the Inquisition.  I think Solas understands Cole's predicament, but not the terrible fear that drives it.  He's sympathetic rather than empathetic.

 

IMO Varric isn't any more in tune with Cole than Solas is, "he" vs "I" aside. Varric is determined to think that Cole evolves by becoming a person and arguably wants Cole to be what he's more comfortable with, just as you could say that Solas wants Cole to remain what he admires more; a spirit. Varric thinks that him being a person makes him inherently more alive and worthy than being a spirit, which isn't true. He assumes and operates on the belief that Cole came to become human, when in reality he came to help. They're on equal ground in this quest, with Solas edging Varric out for me because Solas actually knows the risks of this and Varric doesn't know jack. That said, I still make Cole human because I like the story better. 

 

I also still stand by that they were equally condescending during this quest, no matter what everyone else says (ie 'Solas is such a douche to Varric omg' stuff). 

[drosophila]

About Solas, gremlins, and kindness: I think he sees the gremlins as something less, flawed, limited, but he pities them and doesn't wish them to suffer. Then you get to either harden him or convince him that gremlins are more similar to him than he thinks. 

[Moondreamer01]

I meant to comment earlier but got side tracked. Best Elf! So sad, but still...I wonder if there is information in the Book of Seekers on reversing something like this.I realize he was severed in the Fade but we know so little about it and spirits seem to be able to restore nearly everything. It could happen the same way. Like Carl meeting with Anders and Justice.

 

I don't have an AO3 account but would like to join. My FF.net story will drift toward smut I can't seem to help it, but the 'clean' version has to be left clean because my kids want to read it. My son is hounding me for the next chapter. He's 23 and has called like 3 times today.

 

"Mom! Your killing me! I need to read moar!"

"Ir abelas da'len"

"Argh! You evil woman."

thank you for giving it a read Writing best elf like this was... difficult emotionnally I will admit. As for what will happen in the future well, you'll just have to keep reading I'll try to be quicker with posting the next chapter but this is Thanksgiving weekend for us here and I'm going to be busy in the next few days.

 

Edit : Top of the page. It's not Solas, but I thought it would be appropriate!

May I present, Felassan! (She does an awesome version of Abelas too)

Source : http://artemorte.tum...dom-old-asshole

[Sable Rhapsody]

Doesn't he actually run a spy network, though? It's in one of the first investigate dialogues you have with him, where you ask what he actually does.

 

Kind of.  He has informants, but he says that he'd be a terrible spymaster because he mother hens his people.  He would never, for example, be able to take over Leliana's job.

[Kadan]

thank you for giving it a read Writing best elf like this was... difficult emotionnally I will admit. As for what will happen in the future well, you'll just have to keep reading I'll try to be quicker with posting the next chapter but this is Thanksgiving weekend for us here and I'm going to be busy in the next few days.

 

Edit : Top of the page. It's not Solas, but I thought it would be appropriate!

May I present, Felassan! (She does an awesome version of Abelas too)

Source : http://artemorte.tum...dom-old-asshole

 

Lovely art work.

 

I have so much to say about Best Elf but it will have to wait. I can't go telling my plot line before I've published my chapters! I had to write him in though, he told me to!

[Moondreamer01]

Lovely art work.

 

I have so much to say about Best Elf but it will have to wait. I can't go telling my plot line before I've published my chapters! I had to write him in though, he told me to!

More best elf is never a bad thing. My only regret is any friendship with my Lavellan would only ever be platonic. Oh well... I just have have to make an Oc for him at some point

[Julilla]

Oh all you baby Lavellans! I must be the old lady here. One of the things I appreciate about BW games is that I can play them without feeling like I should be 16. I like character complexity and I do feel appreciated as an older gamer. I pictured Solas as being physically about 42-45, but that might just be because he seems like somewhere close to my age. He's got the obvious emotional baggage but a bit of wisdom though still with blind spots. About perfect for everyone my age. It also makes sense that he'd hop into it with Lavellans because age and knowing better don't mean you don't need hot schmexxy time and cuddles.

[figment_]

Oh all you baby Lavellans! I must be the old lady here. One of the things I appreciate about BW games is that I can play them without feeling like I should be 16. I like character complexity and I do feel appreciated as an older gamer. I pictured Solas as being physically about 42-45, but that might just be because he seems like somewhere close to my age. He's got the obvious emotional baggage but a bit of wisdom though still with blind spots. About perfect for everyone my age. It also makes sense that he'd hop into it with Lavellans because age and knowing better don't mean you don't need hot schmexxy time and cuddles.

You are not alone! You may not even be the oldest...

 

[Kadan]

Oh all you baby Lavellans! I must be the old lady here. One of the things I appreciate about BW games is that I can play them without feeling like I should be 16. I like character complexity and I do feel appreciated as an older gamer. I pictured Solas as being physically about 42-45, but that might just be because he seems like somewhere close to my age. He's got the obvious emotional baggage but a bit of wisdom though still with blind spots. About perfect for everyone my age. It also makes sense that he'd hop into it with Lavellans because age and knowing better don't mean you don't need hot schmexxy time and cuddles.

 

 

This is why my OC and him are perfect. She's in her early 40's at the very least She may be older but age is all relative at this point.

 

A person can commit to being alone, I have. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't rethink that if I found someone that had the right qualities and views I want in a SO. This is where I think Solas is in his life. He's been alone for a very long time. He's found things to hold his interest and push away the loneliness until he meets Lavellan, (or a non-canon OC) Before he realizes it they have wormed their way past his carefully placed walls. Then he spends months denying it to himself, looking for things to reaffirm his resolve to stay unattached but he can't. She keeps subtly breaking through those layers of defense, and he falls for her completely. At least that is how I saw Solas as I played through his romance.

 

Edited to add: I love that I'm not the only 'oldy' kicking around the forums and playing video games. I blame my mother. She bought us our first Atari when I was 13. We had to fight her for the dang thing, she loved Pac-man and then later Mrs Pac-man.

[figment_]

This is why my OC and him are perfect. She's in her early 40's at the very least She may be older but age is all relative at this point.

 

A person can commit to being alone, I have. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't rethink that if I found someone that had the right qualities and views I want in a SO. This is where I think Solas is in his life. He's been alone for a very long time. He's found things to hold his interest and push away the loneliness until he meets Lavellan, (or a non-canon OC) Before he realizes it they have wormed their way past his carefully placed walls. Then he spends months denying it to himself, looking for things to reaffirm his resolve to stay unattached but he can't. She keeps subtly breaking through those layers of defense, and he falls for her completely. At least that is how I saw Solas as I played through his romance.

 

Edited to add: I love that I'm not the only 'oldy' kicking around the forums and playing video games. I blame my mother. She bought us our first Atari when I was 13. We had to fight her for the dang thing, she loved Pac-man and then later Mrs Pac-man.

OMG!!! Same with my mom! I had my Atari hooked up to the TV in my room, so she couldn't play as much...

 

 

Edit: Soon after, I started playing text-based adventure games on PC...and I was hooked...

[Kadan]

OMG!!! Same with my mom! I had my Atari hooked up to the TV in my room, so she couldn't play as much...

 

She stole my brothers Game Boy so she could play Tetris. She was so excited when she beat the game....lol

[figment_]

She stole my brothers Game Boy so she could play Tetris. She was so excited when she beat the game....lol

I bought my first GB so I could play Pokemon after playing my son's game...I'm an addict...

 

Oh Gawd, I just realized I'm dating myself here!!! "I remember when PC games didn't even have graphics!" ROFL