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[NeverlandHunter]

The threesome thing bothers me. Not as a concept for those who would like that sort of thing but just because it gets used so often as an annoying bi trope to the point it remains a stereotype lots of people believe is some kind of default in real life. And then there's Zevran and Isabela and Leliana and the Warden with that foursome in DAO. Mitigated a bit with DA2 and with DAI but it's more a personal pet peeve.

 

Which was also why I find the team actively considering harmful bisexuality tropes when it came to creating Solas to be really thoughtful.

I understand disliking it for how cliche it has become. Although you don't necessarily need to identify as bisexual to have sex with someone of the opposing and same sex. So the Zevran, Briala, and Celene hookup isn't entirely implausible (other than it is XD). I guess that's my opinion though *shrugs* sexual orientation and labeling and romantic vs sexual preferences and bicurious vs bisexual is all incredibly confusing. But people like to label, so we shall continue coming up with terms to classify people into certain categories...

 

Anywho, so this whole Solas being straight to avoid being a bi trope bothered me.

Originally I didn't know why. So I mulled it over, have chewed and finished digesting the issue, and here is my opinion.

I think that was an excuse. A good one no doubt, but an excuse nonetheless.

TV tropes says the depraved bisexual is "the cold-blooded murderous sociopaths". That seems so very far off from Solas, an yes I know I'm biased towards his goodness, but even if he fit the category. Does this mean you shy away from that? No, it means you create characters, ie Josephine, who are a contrast to the trope and show that you aren't making a walking stereotype. The problem with using TV tropes (which I love) is that they have a "trope" for eeveeerrryyy behavior. This is possibly due to the nothing is original anymore, but that's an argument for another day. Back to the point, they said Solas was not bisexual because they didn't want him to be a trope. First, they didn't think about that with Bull? Or maybe they didn't want multiple tropes... but all the characters can fit into tropes (KISA, tsundere, Disney princess, ect.). I don't think I would have ever perceived a bisexual Solas as a stereotype or trope. His character is just so different from what comes to mind when you think of the depraved bisexual. Bull on the other hand fits the category well, wouldn't he be the more creative to steer away from the trope, not Solas? Second, they could have made Solas gay. They answered why he wasn't bisexual, but why not why he wasn't gay?

I think the most likely reason Solas is straight (why not gay I assume social limitations) is due to funding and time limitations. The reasoning that was give, in my most humble and very cynical opinion this late hour, was an excuse. 

By the way I know this is sort of an incoherent mess. I'm in the awkward middle ground of sleepy in the mind but not in the body XD

[Wynele]

The threesome thing bothers me. Not as a concept for those who would like that sort of thing but just because it gets used so often as an annoying bi trope to the point it remains a stereotype lots of people believe is some kind of default in real life. And then there's Zevran and Isabela and Leliana and the Warden with that foursome in DAO. Mitigated a bit with DA2 and with DAI but it's more a personal pet peeve.

 

Which was also why I find the team actively considering harmful bisexuality tropes when it came to creating Solas to be really thoughtful.

 

I happen to be bi-sexual in reality.  So nope, I certainly don't believe it's default in real life.  Life would be easier, but less interesting if it were.  Alas...

 

BUT, on topic.  Zevran is bi-sexual in canon.  And also a bit of an equal opportunity flirt.  At the very least he's a big talker, a big flirt, and a bit of a tease.  So... uh.. yeah.  Where am I going with this... Oh, that's right.  Nowhere.  

 

In short... no.  I don't really  think Zevran or anyone runs around runs around thinking they can get to random people in the sack for reasons. 

 

It was a joke... yeah.

[Jayla]

To clarify my post, I'm wondering specifically where the writer's foresight with the other romances was hiding when they were doing Solas.

 

And I'm not complaining about the romances. I see it as a quirky trait and chalk it up to Thedasian bis tend to be less straight-and-narrow-no-pun-intended (which Cass and Cullen - DAI's straight options* - certainly fit into) and their sexuality is a part of... showing off that trait (for lack of better words). But I can understand why some people would be upset by it.

 

*Blackwall less-so but even he fits into it aside from being a cowardly liar.

[NeverlandHunter]

Just look at the lasts posts.. .. Let's make sure this doesn't happen here

Do you think there's less fighting here because we're all forced to play female Lavellans? No one can argue the best race or gender... although we can still argue best class (mage FTW!)

[Cee]

Specifically they wanted to avoid the deranged bi trope, so less of the "let's boink everybody!" bi trope and more along the "I'll do whatever for my plans even boink anybody if it proves profitable!" trope, which you could argue is what Solas could do if he was bi. We all know certain fans would certainly take it that way, given some already do that with Lavellan alone.

 

It's a good point, and I know Solas came late in the game development so it was easy for the writers to look at the current Inquisition romances and say, "yeah, let's avoid that", but I still can't help but look at Iron Bull's, Dorian's, and Sera's (I'm probably missing someone but they're the off-hand I can remember) romances which do that exact trope. IB's a spy, Sera's a thief, Dorian's a Tevintan, all people with reason to be suspicious of.

 

I think Josie's the only one so far who's all innocent all day (or at least her shady business is in the past).

 

Oh, DAI is better but not amazing at it and Bull, for instance, pretty much is that trope. But what Solas is looking to do, is further-reaching and potentially a lot more damaging, and while not an exact representation of that trope if he were bi, it's close enough to the border that some people would interpret it that way. So they erred on the side of caution, given the past criticism of the way bi characters have been depicted in their games. And it's not just the hop into bed with multiples thing but things like the differences in DA2, how Anders would tell a male Hawke about Karl but not a female Hawke.

 

As I said, merely a personal pet peeve. Especially as these things bleed into real life.

[Jayla]

I happen to be bi-sexual in reality.  So nope, I certainly don't believe it's default in real life.  Life would be easier, but less interesting if it were.  Alas...

 

BUT, on topic.  Zevran is bi-sexual in canon.  And also a bit of an equal opportunity flirt.  At the very least he's a big talker, a big flirt, and a bit of a tease.  So... uh.. yeah.  Where am I going with this... Oh, that's right.  Nowhere.  

 

In short... no.  I don't really  think Zevran or anyone runs around runs around thinking they can get to random people in the sack for reasons. 

 

It was a joke... yeah.

 

I could definitely see Celene flirting/sleeping with Zevran the Inquisitor if it proved advantageous politically, and Zevran would be all too happy to oblige if she could make it fun. xD (I might be overstating Zev's personality there, I don't know. I didn't pay much attention to him very much, although Zevran the Inquisitor tickles me to no end.)

[Uirebhiril]

I think the most likely reason Solas is straight (why not gay I assume social limitations) is due to funding and time limitations. The reasoning that was give, in my most humble and very cynical opinion this late hour, was an excuse.

 

Seeing people say this irritates me anymore. The only reason a character is X is due to time and resources, and if not for that the totally would have been Y. So then they use that to justify their belief in their personal headcanon and disregard completely what the character's creator says. It just comes across as disrespectful to the writers, which irks me.

 

Weekes says the character is what he is for the reasons he gave, and one of those reasons is likely due to being limited on resources due to the late timing. But people should stop suggesting, even mildly, that he is a liar about the other reasons he chose what he did for the character.

[NeverlandHunter]

I could definitely see Celene flirting/sleeping with Zevran the Inquisitor if it proved advantageous politically, and Zevran would be all too happy to oblige if she could make it fun. xD (I might be overstating Zev's personality there, I don't know. I didn't pay much attention to him very much, although Zevran the Inquisitor tickles me to no end.)

Oh Maker, out of all our companions Zevran is probably in the top 10 for causing more damage than when he started XD

My others, though not in this order,

1. Oghren

2. Anders

3. Merrill

4. Zevran

5. Isabela

6. Sera

7. Shale

8. Solas XD

9. Carver

10. Dog

[Jayla]

...in DA2, how Anders would tell a male Hawke about Karl but not a female Hawke.

 

At the risk of sounding ignorant or a bit of an arse (and please tell me if I am, always looking for more perspective and more open-mindedness), I always took that as a bi-guy-thing. ^^; My partner is bi and for some reason he's more ready to talk about ex-girlfriends than he is about ex-boyfriends. I ask him why, but he doesn't really seem to know why himself, only that it makes him more uncomfortable, despite him being incredibly open about just about everything else.

 

Still a dumb decision in game for the writers not to include it for Marian, but it wasn't as puzzling to me as maybe it should be. x)

[Cee]

I happen to be bi-sexual in reality.  So nope, I certainly don't believe it's default in real life.  Life would be easier, but less interesting if it were.  Alas...

 

BUT, on topic.  Zevran is bi-sexual in canon.  And also a bit of an equal opportunity flirt.  At the very least he's a big talker, a big flirt, and a bit of a tease.  So... uh.. yeah.  Where am I going with this... Oh, that's right.  Nowhere.  

 

In short... no.  I don't really  think Zevran or anyone runs around runs around thinking they can get to random people in the sack for reasons. 

 

It was a joke... yeah.

 

I am as well, and I never said it's default. I'm saying that in real life, there are annoying bi stereotypes that include people thinking that it is. I've encountered them and they're not unheard of. I'm aware of Zevran's characterization and traits, and I like Zevran, but it doesn't mean a greater comment about depictions can't be made. As I said, it was a personal opinion, and I'm far from the first person to ever say these things.
 

 

Inquisitor Zevran though. I do hope someone is actually going to write that.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Do you think there's less fighting here because we're all forced to play female Lavellans? No one can argue the best race or gender... although we can still argue best class (mage FTW!)

 

There were a lot of spats on the Anders thread after DA2 about whether Male/Female Hawke was "better" for the romance.  And oh god the fights over friendship vs. rivalry.  That's when I tapped out.  Anders is a hot mess no matter what you do.  So pick your flavor of hot mess, enjoy, and STFU 

 

I have never understood the need to be "best" or right in a game that's all about choice.  What you do doesn't invalidate what someone else does.  That's the whole goddamn point of providing options like race, class, sexuality, and romance options.  I mean, *I* think Garrus is best digital husbando ever, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to agree even though I'm totally right 

[Jayla]

Do you think there's less fighting here because we're all forced to play female Lavellans? No one can argue the best race or gender... although we can still argue best class (mage FTW!)

 

Oh, please, Rogue all the way! FITE ME, BRAH!

[Wynele]

Do you think there's less fighting here because we're all forced to play female Lavellans? No one can argue the best race or gender... although we can still argue best class (mage FTW!)

 

I always play mages.  OOOH.  We can fight over specializations.      hrm.  I wonder if rift-mage Lavellan can still use her rift-magic without the anchor.  I'm thinking probably since Your Trainer could.  

[Sable Rhapsody]

Oh, please, Rogue all the way! FITE ME, BRAH!

 

Artificer or go home.  Because explosions     

[Cee]

At the risk of sounding ignorant or a bit of an arse (and please tell me if I am, always looking for more perspective and more open-mindedness), I always took that as a bi-guy-thing. ^^; My partner is bi and for some reason he's more ready to talk about ex-girlfriends than he is about ex-boyfriends. I ask him why, but he doesn't really seem to know why himself, only that it makes him more uncomfortable, despite him being incredibly open about just about everything else.

 

Still a dumb decision in game for the writers not to include it for Marian, but it wasn't as puzzling to me as maybe it should be. x)

 

No, that's an interesting perspective and something I've heard before. For a game, to me it makes sense to have an equal script, but in real life it might not always happen that way. I'm not sure. Might have something to do with the still common treatment of bi men and erasure/questioning and societal attitudes. But I couldn't say for certain.

[Jayla]

I always play mages.  OOOH.  We can fight over specializations.      hrm.  I wonder if rift-mage Lavellan can still use her rift-magic without the anchor.  I'm thinking probably since Your Trainer could.  

 

I think going by what Solas says to a Rift Mage the training that would usually take years is fast-tracked by the anchor, but that's it. So I if they lose anything it'll be how proficient they are at it (might be a reason to reset talents in Quizzy proves to be the main protagonist!), but I think Quizzy will be pretty much the same.

[NeverlandHunter]

Seeing people say this irritates me anymore. The only reason a character is X is due to time and resources, and if not for that the totally would have been Y. So then they use that to justify their belief in their personal headcanon and disregard completely what the character's creator says. It just comes across as disrespectful to the writers, which irks me.

 

Weekes says the character is what he is for the reasons he gave, and one of those reasons is likely due to being limited on resources due to the late timing. But people should stop suggesting, even mildly, that he is a liar about the other reasons he chose what he did for the character.

I don't mean to come across as being disrespectful to the writers, but they are limited in their control of the characters. There's other people that put a lot of input into them. There's a ton of things that get changed and cut out do to time restraints, funding, other teams' input, ect. Weekes doesn't have total control over Solas, I think sometimes people forget that. Also, he's a person, he's fallible to make excuses, especially when it comes to a character he's helped create. BioWare developers have made excuses in the past... you can decide to take everything they say at face value, I do not. I'm cynical that way.

[figment_]

Do you think there's less fighting here because we're all forced to play female Lavellans? No one can argue the best race or gender... although we can still argue best class (mage FTW!)

Arcane Warrior!!!

 

 

GRRRR...guess I have to settle for knight-enchanter...

[Cee]

Sable, you spelled Alistair wrong.

[Cee]

I don't mean to come across as being disrespectful to the writers, but they are limited in their control of the characters. There's other people that put a lot of input into them. There's a ton of things that get changed and cut out do to time restraints, funding, other teams' input, ect. Weekes doesn't have total control over Solas, I think sometimes people forget that. Also, he's a person, he's fallible to make excuses, especially when it comes to a character he's helped create. BioWare developers have made excuses in the past... you can decide to take everything they say at face value, I do not. I'm cynical that way.

 

To me, it seems that budget and resources were one factor, but since Weekes answered the question about why no M-M Solas romance in a more general way, but only after Trespasser was out, could finally be honest because his plan was finally revealed, and could say 'well, we know what some people might think of him, and we wanted to avoid this trope'.

 

It makes a lot of sense to me, since he has given a couple of reasons for the romance over time, but he couldn't be completely honest until Trespasser was unleashed upon the world.

 

To me, reading that, it clicked. Oh...oh...that's thoughtful.

[rowrow]

This was my sticking point too, trying to get into the game.  I think it's telling that I finished and loved Tabris's playthrough back in Origins, and stalled out before Lothering on Mahariel, whom I was trying to play as a super Dalish-y Dalish.  She drove me nuts

 

I'm glad, at least, that the in-game description for Clan Lavellan portrays them as a little wary, but generally friendly and tolerant of strangers who don't want trouble.  As a clan they strike a balance between "crazy hostile Dalish" and "unrealistically fluffy Dalish," and that made it easier to create a character who was clearly Dalish, but still capable to adapting to the shock of becoming the humans' Herald of Andraste.

 

Right. Solas also points out that your clan is somewhat different for caring enough about human affairs. I think Bioware was quite aware that this might be an issue for players.

 

It's funny. I really didn't expect it going in, but I fell in love with elven lore while playing Lavellan and DAI turned out to be all about the elfy. You spend so much time exploring elven ruins and travelling the Dales, and there's eluvians and Mythal and of course Solas himself. After a while, I just kinda forgot about all the Chantry stuff anyway

[Jayla]

Artificer or go home.  Because explosions     

 

A team of a Artificer Quizzy, Varric, Sera with the Artificer bow, and... I don't know, Dorian with the 3-Fire Mines talent? EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE!

Personally I can't resist Kihm. Every time I contemplate a different spec I only have to remember Kihm's voice and I'm drawn right back in. xD

[Wynele]

I could definitely see Celene flirting/sleeping with Zevran the Inquisitor if it proved advantageous politically, and Zevran would be all too happy to oblige if she could make it fun. xD (I might be overstating Zev's personality there, I don't know. I didn't pay much attention to him very much, although Zevran the Inquisitor tickles me to no end.)

 

Zevran is rather interesting.   He's into taking his pleasures where he can...but at the same time desperately wants to be someone's mutual one and only.  I mean, seriously, he's the only love interest that adventures with the Warden ten years later  

 

His stories about his various assassinations are hilarious.  Mostly because he never actually kills any of his targets.  Oh, they die, and Zevran was there...but, he actually didn't do anything but be pretty.   

 

I've really grown fond of ole Zevran over the years.  Almost to the point where I want to make him my warden's canon LI. 

[NeverlandHunter]

There were a lot of spats on the Anders thread after DA2 about whether Male/Female Hawke was "better" for the romance.  And oh god the fights over friendship vs. rivalry.  That's when I tapped out.  Anders is a hot mess no matter what you do.  So pick your flavor of hot mess, enjoy, and STFU 

 

I have never understood the need to be "best" or right in a game that's all about choice.  What you do doesn't invalidate what someone else does.  That's the whole goddamn point of providing options like race, class, sexuality, and romance options.  I mean, *I* think Garrus is best digital husbando ever, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to agree even though I'm totally right 

Oooh, I'm almost glad I wasn't around the forums when DA2 and all its glorious controversy was up XD I'm sure it got rough! Especially as an Anders fan on his thread... it's kind of annoying (the good kind though, share opinions!) when people come here to hate on Solas... I bet the Anders thread got nasty!

Although people will always find things to argue if they want to

 

Oh, please, Rogue all the way! FITE ME, BRAH!

You may have the grace, but I have the indomitable focus!

[Homeboundcrib]

Do you think there's less fighting here because we're all forced to play female Lavellans? No one can argue the best race or gender... although we can still argue best class (mage FTW!)

I havent been here long and you guys welcomed me with open arms, everyone is always nice an willing to joke and laugh I think that's why there are no fights here. I love this place lol haha
Mage all the way I will always be a Mage first before any other haha.