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[ComedicSociopathy]

Am I a bad person for laughing during that scene? 

 

No. That nun was something of a b*tch. A racist one too if your anything other then human. 

[Illyria]

It was strange how little Lavellan responded to insults against her elfiness. I wanted to play a super abrasive, team Elgar'nan, screw all you shems, type Lavellan. Instead I was forced to be respectful of everybody's religions while they laughed at mine. Sure, the Dalish beliefs are wrong, but so are the Chantry beliefs. I didn't even get the chance to laugh in their faces because the blight predates the magisters, why am I being forced into playing as a nice guy??

 

What gives Bioware? Where's my racist renegade Lavellan?

 

That's what I mean about the tiny things.  It's not just for mages but also for elves (and a friend who plays as a qunari has confirmed that Adaar was pretty much screwed over during Trespasser with no dialogue to reflect that they're a Vasoth, and no option to say 'uh, Leliana, I can actually read Qunlat')

 

Left behind in DA:O 

 

The last time you could say really horrible, abrasive, racist things about people was ME1/DA:O.  I will admit to missing some of Renegade!Shep's more egregious comments.  And Tabris's knack for making shems really, REALLY uncomfortable.

 

Look, I'm not a racist (some of my best friends are hanar) but it's a BIG. STUPID. JELLYFISH.

[Raeona]

Some fans got a little... upset by being rejected by a pixel lesbian.  It had nothing to do with her being an elf and everything to do with her being the traditionally 'cute' LI and not being interested in men.  And the Red Crossing thing got nasty in the forum.  There was a lot of gloating about the how the elves derseved the March (which DAI retconned into not being a proper March because only Orlais took part).

 

Fiona doesn't retcon anything, and she has some Sue traits but no more than the HoF.

 

But we were the HoF, so it's okay for them to be implausibly competent with plot armor stronger than any golem. Heaven forbid anyone else break the rules, don't they know it wasn't cleared by the player character?

[midnight tea]

It was strange how little Lavellan responded to insults against her elfiness. I wanted to play a super abrasive, team Elgar'nan, screw all you shems, type Lavellan. Instead I was forced to be respectful of everybody's religions while they laughed at mine. Sure, the Dalish beliefs are wrong, but so are the Chantry beliefs. I didn't even get the chance to laugh in their faces because the blight predates the magisters, why am I being forced into playing as a nice guy??

 

There are quite a few neutral (non-racial) responses that are pretty critical of the Chantry. Besides, the fact that a DALISH ELF is a fabled Herald Of Andraste and later Inquisitor is probably enough to grind some people's gears

 

I mean, mine couldn't help but to be amused with the irony. "I think I like that Maker guy! I mean, if he exists, he must have a pretty wicked sense of humor, making a Dalish elf the supposed chosen one of their beloved prophet!"

[Elessara]

I apparently miss a lot of the nastiness that goes on in the forums ... since I rarely leave this thread.  Like, I had no idea there were players who got upset b/c a lesbian LI rejected them - especially when I'm pretty sure she was stated to be an F/F romance only before the game even released.  Although yes not everyone reads about a game before it's released.  But still becoming that angry about it never would have occurred to me.  Or an argument about Red Crossing .. really?  Saying the elves deserved the March?  Bleh.  The history of Thedas is full of people of all races doing terrible things.  Doesn't mean any race should get almost wiped out over it.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Speaking of Samson - he's another character that got screwed over by the writing.  Cullen gets a redemption plot (despite not actually feeling much guilt over what he was complicit in during DA2) and Samson is treated as an irredeemable monster (personally, I think the plot would've worked better if Cullen was the leader of the Red Templars and Samson was the Commander of the Inquisitions forces).

 

I suppose. To me Samson was always that lyrium crack-ho who I felt sorry for in DA 2. That said, him suddenly becoming Corypheus's righthand man was weird and out of left field. 

 

 

By the way - love the Jasprosesprite icon.

 

Finally, some got this icon. Not enough Homestuck fans on these forums, I swear.

 

Thanks for the compliment. 

 

PS - What do you think Solas's Class Title would be Homestuck? I'm guessing Mage of Time. 

[Illyria]

There are quite a few neutral (non-racial) responses that are pretty critical of the Chantry. Besides, the fact that a DALISH ELF is a fabled Herald Of Andraste and later Inquisitor is probably enough to grind some people's gears

 

I mean, mine couldn't help but to be amused with the irony. "I think I like that Maker guy! I mean, if he exists, he must have a pretty wicked sense of humor, making a Dalish elf the supposed chosen one of their beloved prophet!"

 

We're told that there's a lot of tension but, like the lack of priests in Redcliffe*, what we see in the game is different.  About the worst it gets from our own team is Seggritt holding back the term 'knife ear' when speaking to Lavellan the first time.

 

*Apparently they were all kicked out, but I counted at least five (not including the Revered Mother you can speak to and 'Sister' Tanner)

[Sable Rhapsody]

Cullen gets a redemption plot (despite not actually feeling much guilt over what he was complicit in during DA2) and Samson is treated as an irredeemable monster (personally, I think the plot would've worked better if Cullen was the leader of the Red Templars and Samson was the Commander of the Inquisitions forces).

 

I think they're honestly interchangeable.  The role wouldn't change much (Inquisition Commander vs. Red Templar leader) regardless of which templar played which role.  

 

Addiction is a function of both environment and the addictive behavior, whether that's drugs or gambling or whatever.  While there is an individual genetic component to addiction, there's a reason why people recovering from surgery usually don't get addicted to morphine while people in more desperate circumstances (depression, socioeconomic deprivation, etc.) become addicted to heroin, despite it being the same drug.  Despite, in fact, medical diamorphine being stronger than street heroin.  So IMO neither Cullen nor Samson is morally superior or stronger.  The one who has a support network recovers and breaks the lyrium leash.  The one who is isolated and vilified does not.

[Vhenan Sequitur]

Yeah, I expect a hellspiral of pain when this is over. 

 

It occured to me while reading the posts about the Tresspasser tiles that Solas' personal mission in the game might parallel on a smaller scale the choices you can make as a player about Solas' character.

 

Just like with his friend, maybe you'll have to kill Solas as a Pride demon or alternatively help him revert back to his true nature as a spirit of Wisdom.

 

And we all know what happened to Wisdom at the end of the quest

 

Yeah, that bit about the Solas saga mirroring his own person mission occurred to me. I just didn't like that thought on a personal level and quietly swept it under the rug. It would be a thing of literary beauty, but I'm not down with pain for the sake of art...not any more.

 

Yeah, I think it's also hinted heavily in Jaws of Hakkon, when they talk about spirits that have been in outside the Fade too long needing periodic "rebirthing" to basically keep them from becoming corrupt. Of course, that may only be the case in a world where the Veil is in place.

 

I really would prefer to not have to fight him though, and he says himself that the way a spirit appears depends largely on what the person it appears to expects to see - one of my Lavellans at least does not believe him to be a monster, though he proposes monstrous things. She wants to lead him back to the light if possible.

 

 

This doesn't just apply to spirits; it's true of all people.  Treat people like monsters, and they become monsters.  It's IMO a large reason why the Circle system was messed up at its core.  

 

If it's done right, it'll be a nice little meta-story for Solas.  If the player thinks he's a horrible monster and treats him as such, that's what he'll be.  If the player thinks he's redeemable, that's what he'll be.  IMO it's a larger-scale version of something like hardening/softening Leliana and Alistair.  It's still the same character, but the player's actions bring different traits of that character to the forefront.

 

I HOPE this is where Weekes will take us with Solas (you expect a demon you get one blah blah blah). It likely won't be that simple though. The game wouldn't be much fun if we all already know we'll likely get one of two endings. If there is a way to redeem Solas, especially if there is a way to keep him alive at the end, you know it is going to be the more difficult path. One little slip up along the way and bang, it'll be Tali committing suicide on Rannoch all over again. That's why I collected all those blasted shards! You never know what it will take to change the Dread Wolf's heart.

 

 

PS

Chapter 2 of my halla-day treat A First Day Chant is up on AO3. Jus' sayin'.

[Elessara]

That's what I mean about the tiny things.  It's not just for mages but also for elves (and a friend who plays as a qunari has confirmed that Adaar was pretty much screwed over during Trespasser with no dialogue to reflect that they're a Vasoth, and no option to say 'uh, Leliana, I can actually read Qunlat')

 

 

Look, I'm not a racist (some of my best friends are hanar) but it's a BIG. STUPID. JELLYFISH.

 

Can Adaar actually read Qunlat?  I haven't played one but if they were raised Vashoth I'm not sure it necessarily follows that their parents taught them the Qunari language - other than maybe a few words/phrases.  Also, is it ever mentioned that Adaar's parents were themselves Tal Vashoth or were they Vashoth as well?

[Raeona]

There are quite a few neutral (non-racial) responses that are pretty critical of the Chantry. Besides, the fact that a DALISH ELF is a fabled Herald Of Andraste and later Inquisitor is probably enough to grind some people's gears

 

I mean, mine couldn't help but to be amused with the irony. "I think I like that Maker guy! I mean, if he exists, he must have a pretty wicked sense of humor, making a Dalish elf the supposed chosen one of their beloved prophet!"

 

Cassandra: Can't you slide the maker into your little collection of gods, like he's some kind of pokemon?

Lavellan: Can't I slide my fist into your face, like you just said something incredibly stupid?

 

That's what I mean about the tiny things.  It's not just for mages but also for elves (and a friend who plays as a qunari has confirmed that Adaar was pretty much screwed over during Trespasser with no dialogue to reflect that they're a Vasoth, and no option to say 'uh, Leliana, I can actually read Qunlat')

 

 

Look, I'm not a racist (some of my best friends are hanar) but it's a BIG. STUPID. JELLYFISH.

 

Screw you hanar, you can't even wear sweaters!

[Illyria]

I suppose. To me Samson was always that lyrium crack-ho who I felt sorry for in DA 2. That said, him suddenly becoming Corypheus's righthand man was weird and out of left field. 

 

 

 

Finally, some got this icon. Not enough Homestuck fans on these forums, I swear.

 

Thanks for the compliment. 

 

PS - What do you think Solas's Class Title would be Homestuck? I'm guessing Mage of Time. 

 

Either that or Mage of Mind.

 

I'm less of a Homestuck than I used to be, though.  Still want to see how it ends.

 

I think they're honestly interchangeable.  The role wouldn't change much (Inquisition Commander vs. Red Templar leader) regardless of which templar played which role.  

 

Addiction is a function of both environment and the addictive behavior, whether that's drugs or gambling or whatever.  While there is an individual genetic component to addiction, there's a reason why people recovering from surgery usually don't get addicted to morphine while people in more desperate circumstances (depression, socioeconomic deprivation, etc.) become addicted to heroin, despite it being the same drug.  So IMO neither Cullen nor Samson is morally superior or stronger.  The one who has a support network recovers and breaks the lyrium leash.  The one who is isolated and vilified does not.

 

True.  But I do think Red Lyrium Cullen would've been an interesting place to take his character, and Samson (who actually tried to help mages) would've been interesting for the redemption plot and lyrium addition plot (since we've already seen how far he's sunk and how he betrayed his own morals to get a fix).

 

I would settle for a less demonised Samson.

[midnight tea]

I think they're honestly interchangeable.  The role wouldn't change much (Inquisition Commander vs. Red Templar leader) regardless of which templar played which role.  

 

Addiction is a function of both environment and the addictive behavior, whether that's drugs or gambling or whatever.  While there is an individual genetic component to addiction, there's a reason why people recovering from surgery usually don't get addicted to morphine while people in more desperate circumstances (depression, socioeconomic deprivation, etc.) become addicted to heroin, despite it being the same drug.  So IMO neither Cullen nor Samson is morally superior or stronger.  The one who has a support network recovers and breaks the lyrium leash.  The one who is isolated and vilified does not.

 

So basically the story of Cullen and Samson aren't really about those individuals, but the tale of how circumstances and the power of support of other people can change a person's life for the better (I mean, at one point Cullen even says "If my life went different I could've been one of them.")

 

I... can't say I hate that. Besides - let's face it: it's a rather huge theme in DA and apparently especially in Inquisition. Even Solas's arc appears to be about similar/same thing.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Can Adaar actually read Qunlat?  I haven't played one but if they were raised Vashoth I'm not sure it necessarily follows that their parents taught them the Qunari language - other than maybe a few words/phrases.  Also, is it ever mentioned that Adaar's parents were themselves Tal Vashoth or were they Vashoth as well?

 

Adaar's parents are Tal-Vashoth.  I just figured it was up to headcanon whether s/he knows Qunlat or not.  I figured my Adaar picked up bits and pieces of Qunlat from his mother and the rest of the Valo-kas company, but he's not actually fluent.

 

Cassandra: Can't you slide the maker into your little collection of gods, like he's some kind of pokemon?

Lavellan: Can't I slide my fist into your face, like you just said something incredibly stupid?

 

If the Maker is a Pokemon, he's totally Arceus + Dread Plate.

[Illyria]

Can Adaar actually read Qunlat?  I haven't played one but if they were raised Vashoth I'm not sure it necessarily follows that their parents taught them the Qunari language - other than maybe a few words/phrases.  Also, is it ever mentioned that Adaar's parents were themselves Tal Vashoth or were they Vashoth as well?

 

Adaar's parents are Tal Vashoth.  And whether Adaar can read the language should've been left up to players to choose, not BW.  Their parents Tal Vashoth and their merc band has a Tal Vashoth leader.  It's more than possible they did learn it.

 

Screw you hanar, you can't even wear sweaters!

 

Oh yeah.  Screw them!

[ComedicSociopathy]

Either that or Mage of Mind.

 

I'm less of a Homestuck than I used to be, though.  Still want to see how it ends.

 

Yeah, me too. Vriska coming back really, really annoyed me. 

[Maria13]

I think they're honestly interchangeable.  The role wouldn't change much (Inquisition Commander vs. Red Templar leader) regardless of which templar played which role.  

 

Addiction is a function of both environment and the addictive behavior, whether that's drugs or gambling or whatever.  While there is an individual genetic component to addiction, there's a reason why people recovering from surgery usually don't get addicted to morphine while people in more desperate circumstances (depression, socioeconomic deprivation, etc.) become addicted to heroin, despite it being the same drug.  So IMO neither Cullen nor Samson is morally superior or stronger.  The one who has a support network recovers and breaks the lyrium leash.  The one who is isolated and vilified does not.

 

Did nobody take the option of making Cullen responsible for Samson? I did, I like to think he's helping out in the Templar rehab centre...

[Vhenan Sequitur]

So basically the story of Cullen and Samson aren't really about those individuals, but the tale of how circumstances and the power of support of other people can change a person's life for the better (I mean, at one point Cullen even says "If my life went different I could've been one of them.")

 

I... can't say I hate that. Besides - let's face it; it's a rather huge theme in DA and apparently especially in Inquisition. Even Solas's arc appears to be about similar/same thing.

Blackwall's arc was like this also...

[Raeona]

I HOPE this is where Weekes will take us with Solas (you expect a demon you get one blah blah blah). It likely won't be that simple though. The game wouldn't be much fun if we all already know we'll likely get one of two endings. If there is a way to redeem Solas, especially if there is a way to keep him alive at the end, you know it is going to be the more difficult path. One little slip up along the way and bang, it'll be Tali committing suicide on Rannoch all over again. That's why I collected all those blasted shards! You never know what it will take to change the Dread Wolf's heart.

 

Heh. 'Oh Lavellan, I love you so, but you didn't collect all 378 shards from the hinterlands, including that one at the top of the rock you aren't tall enough to climb, so our love can never be! Goodbye forever Vhenan!'

[Sable Rhapsody]

So basically the story of Cullen and Samson aren't really about those individuals, but the tale of how circumstances and the power of support of other people can change a person's life for the better (I mean, at one point Cullen even says "If my life went different I could've been one of them.")

 

I... can't say I hate that. Besides - let's face it: it's a rather huge theme in DA and apparently especially in Inquisition. Even Solas's arc appears to be about similar/same thing.

 

The Power of Friendship.

 

It's basically BioWare's hat.  It's a recurring theme in all of their games, stretching back to BG2.  

[Illyria]

Did nobody take the option of making Cullen responsible of Samson? I did, I like to think he's helping out in the Templar rehab centre...

 

I did, but the way he was treated in game was not that great.  Cullen is your main source on Samson and it's clear he hates the guy.  So nearly everything you get is biased against him, and the game does very little to balance this.

[midnight tea]

Blackwall's arc was like this also...

 

So was Bull's and Cole's to an extent. In fact, in many - if not all - companion's quest there's a component of helping them overcoming some things, dealing with stuff or simply growing up (like in case of Sera).

 

The Power Of Friendship, yo!

[Sable Rhapsody]

Did nobody take the option of making Cullen responsible of Samson? I did, I like to think he's helping out in the Templar rehab centre...

 

No  Samson is dead in my Lavellan's game (I had Calpernia), and my Adaar is too vengeful to try and save Samson.  He's getting packed off to Kirkwall post haste.

[Elessara]

Adaar's parents are Tal-Vashoth.  I just figured it was up to headcanon whether s/he knows Qunlat or not.  I figured my Adaar picked up bits and pieces of Qunlat from his mother and the rest of the Valo-kas company, but he's not actually fluent.

 

 

If the Maker is a Pokemon, he's totally Arceus + Dread Plate.

 

 

Adaar's parents are Tal Vashoth.  And whether Adaar can read the language should've been left up to players to choose, not BW.  Their parents Tal Vashoth and their merc band has a Tal Vashoth leader.  It's more than possible they did learn it.

 

 

Oh yeah.  Screw them!

 

 

Heh. 'Oh Lavellan, I love you so, but you didn't collect all 378 shards from the hinterlands, including that one at the top of the rock you aren't tall enough to climb, so our love can never be! Goodbye forever Vhenan!'

 

@Sable and Illyria:  Thanks for the info on Adaar and I can't disagree that it should have been up to the player to decide whether or not they actually spoke or could read/write Qunlat or not.  I kind of just chalk it up to BW isn't perfect and can't think of everything.  But then this could be my general disinterest in the Qunari coming through.  I'm not unbiased.

 

@Raeona:  That would be hilarious and horrible at the same time.  Except I would win b/c I always get all the shards.  But still I lol'd.

[Illyria]

Oh wow am I angry about elves and mages tonight.

 

I'm going to go get some ice cream and a cup of tea to calm down.