153429 réponses à ce sujet

[fangs4fun]

I just realised that I have been liking posts that are a few months old and that some people would be receiving notification of me liking those posts.  It's not a system mistake!  I am trying to catch up to this thread by reading everything!  EVERYTHING.  I am close to 2000 pages now.  

[Raeona]

I just realised that I have been liking posts that are a few months old and that some people would be receiving notification of me liking those posts.  It's not a system mistake!  I am trying to catch up to this thread by reading everything!  EVERYTHING.  I am close to 2000 pages now.  

 

Hahahahah, you're the thread archivist! Or historian! Solas would be so proud

[midnight tea]

Hahahahah, you're the thread archivist! Or historian! Solas would be so proud

 

Reading old thread posts = talking to spirits. What's the difference?

[drosophila]

I just realised that I have been liking posts that are a few months old and that some people would be receiving notification of me liking those posts.  It's not a system mistake!  I am trying to catch up to this thread by reading everything!  EVERYTHING.  I am close to 2000 pages now.  

 

I'm totally impressed that you literally started reading from the beginning. 

[fangs4fun]

I'm kinda OC that way.  It's become a hobby.  Reading threads discussing topics I'm interested in and watching how posters react as events unfold.  

[Raeona]

Reading old thread posts = talking to spirits. What's the difference?

 

I saw it in a memory in the Fade = I read it in the first thousand pages of the thread. 

[Ellawynn]

Ugh, being sick is the worst. Why u do this, body? Why have you betrayed me?  I thought we were friends.

 

(Just to make others aware - this is my response to Midnight Tea on Looking Glass beneath the spoiler)

Spoiler

 

Errr... that's a weird assessment to have. Very few of the characters we've yet met is evil per se (if we indeed ever saw any character that is downright evil or openly 'muahaha' malignant - heck, even the Blight has been... humanized) - some have an agenda, some are misguided and so on, but they're not evil. I think you are being somewhat uncharitable when it comes to assessment of hers or others in the story.

 

Even with the style of writing/narration burrowed very deeply in Lavellan's thoughts an therefore openly biased, there were quite a few times where she either changed her mind, made to reconsider her position or concede points made against her own thinking. Lavellan is also oftentimes lost and confused, but she has an advantage in a sense that she's seen firsthand that ancient Elvhen approach to dealing with problems didn't work; in fact it has backfired spectacularly. It's hard to say how much Feynite's Elvenhan resembles that of canon, but considering that this society was indeed responsible for the downfall of the world gives Lavellan's assessments pretty decent justification, or at least understanding of her position.

 

 

I am really... I'd really rather not write another round of essays on how Lavellan (And through her, Feynite) demonizes the Evanuris and Elvhenan as a whole.To try and put it as shortly as possible  - Mythal, June, the Evanuris, the random workers at Mythal's Temple, side characters who are barely even named - just about every character who fundamentally disagrees with or dislikes Lavellan, she judges - and she finds them lacking. The Evanuris are obsessed with personal glory, the Elvhen nobility are snotty jerks, Elgar'nan's a vicious murderer burning people alive in public (nevermind that they deserved some form of punishment.) None of them have any redeeming qualities whatsoever. No flashes of kindness, nothing. They're all jerks who only care about themselves and their wrong beliefs. And I'd be willing to accept all of this if it weren't for how the story goes out of it's way to validate her - for f*ck's sake, during that scene in the Tavern with Haninan, you literally have a gaggle of characters stumble in just to badmouth the Evanuris. That's it. That's their character. They aren't even given names. There's absolutely no other reason for that to be there than to validate Lavellan's view of the situation, to make the reader go "Holy crap Lavellan, you're right, the Evanuris are terrible in literally every respect."

 

As for the how canon supports that view - I'll get to that further down.

 

 

 

And Pride has explained that it's because she's inexperienced when it comes to feeling grief and has some trouble understanding nuance being that young.

 

The reasons for the action don't change the effect of the action itself, especially when that specific action is repeated several times with different justifications. And given how Compassion's murder is portrayed as nothing but unnecessary and cruel slaughter, I don't think we're meant to believe any of his explanations.

 

 

 

 

Er... what? Even in the last chapter both Pride and Mythal question her extensively and oftentimes Lavellan is painted into a corner, or even feels sheepish and completely agrees with Pride that her almost lashing at Mythal was idiotic and that not only it was stupid from a logical point of view, it also hurt Pride more.

 

Now, I'm not going to question that we're made to mostly sympathize with Lavellan, naturally, but I'd say that it's somewhat shortsighted to say that the author doesn't challenge her own protagonist.

 

 

Precisely. Mythal (The person who's wrong) and Pride (The person's who's also wrong but can maybe shown Lavellan's right way) disagree with her. That's my point. Perhaps if this disagreement came from Curiosity or Haninan, if this disagreement caused Lavellan to stop and examine her beliefs, caused Lavellan to display the same growth and change she demands of Pride, demands of this world, then I'd be happy. But no. It comes from Mythal, who's being painted as a cruel murderer, and Pride, who's being painted as desperately floundering to maintain faith. 

 

And there's a difference between having short conversations and concessions over immediate actions, and actual, honest challenges to a character. Consider all the times Lavellan's been wrong. It's over small things. If they should go into the Titan, if she should've attacked Mythal. Perhaps the only time Lavellan was truly called out was by Haninan over whether she should tell Pride - and that's a big reason why I thought things were getting better.

 

To give a better demonstration of what I mean by challenge - Consider Pride. Consider the way the narrative treats him - consider how it examines his beliefs and ideas, how he's shown as changing, how Lavellan preens whenever he echoes her opinions on points they're previously disagreed on (The dwarves, for instance.) Pride is being challenged. Pride is being changed. Lavellan is not. 

 

The things Lavellan believes, her core ideas, her disapproval of Elvhenan, and now her beliefs on sacrifice, none of these things are challenged. Not by anyone we're made to understood as "good," and indeed, the act of challenging these beliefs is a good indication that the character in question isn't good. Which is my issue with her, and with her relationship to Pride in general. She takes and takes and expects only more, but never has she truly given in return. At no point does she concede - as Pride had with the dwarves, as he did with her personhood, as he'll likely eventually do with the Evanuris and Mythal - that her core beliefs are in need of re-examining. In addition to making Lavellan infuriating, it makes Pride seem like a dull child, in desperate need of Lavellan to "better" him, rather than a equal partner who's ideas and beliefs are given the same weight Lavellan's are, by both the story and by Lavellan herself. 

 

You know what sums this up perfectly? Pride's line about earning her affection. Even at the time it made my wonder - shouldn't Lavellan earn his as well? Why is it assumed to be freely given, where for Pride it must be won? Why are they not being treated equally on this point?

 

I have an answer, but it's not a tremendously flattering one.

 

 

 

 

Either in Feynite's or canon Elvenhan, it appears that there was something wrong in that particular society; bah - the Evanuris painted in Trespasser so far seem like even more power-hungry dictators, and even if Mythal (+Solas) eventually had grand, noble plans for the People she cared deeply for, she's been shown to make questionable decisions (like striking Titans and possibly either threatening or enslaving dwaves) that may have eventually led to her downfall. The truth is likely more layered and complicated then what we've seen for now, but still, it appears that unfortunately elves may have indeed largely destroyed themselves, as Abelas tells us.

 

The question then that should be asked is not whether the Elvenhan, at least prior to collapse, was wrong, but rather what makes you think that they were in fact right, given that we happen to know the future of that world?

 

 

 

Again, not true. She only questions how far that philosophy can be taken.

 

 

 

... what? Entire last chapters have been filled with Lavellan agonizing over her failures and questioning herself or pondering how her love for Solas doomed the world and her actions are shown to have positive as well as negative or unforseen consequences. And Pride points her faulty reasonings or questions her several times as well in various situations, or it's brought up in different forms throughout entire LG (also nobody can really question it aside form select few, because nobody really knows the full extent of what happened). In last chapter Lavellan even brings her own perceived fault in forcing Mythal's hand/Compassions death because apparently she misjudged Fortune and inadvertently caused it to be lost, which is the reason why Pride and Lavellan agree that Curiosity should take the shard of Compassion somewhere safe, because they f**k up so often neither of them trust themselves to protect it.

 

 

 

I don't think Elvhenan was right at all. I think they were nuanced, I think Lavellan is nuanced as well, and I'm unspeakably frustrated at how the story deigns to paint them so black-and-white. The fact that this in a Solavellan fic, where Solas is all about greyness and complexity and seeing the nuance to what others dismiss as simple, just makes it all the worse.

 

As for Lavellan's questioning - again, her response is literally "Well I don't agree with that." Not "Well, I question how far that can be taken." Not exactly much room for interpretation.

 

 

 

At this point I kinda start wondering if we actually read the same fanfiction, I have to say   ...

 

 

 

Really? Are remarks like this truly called for? Honestly.

 

On Mythal's sacrifice - again, there are two points where Lavellan just outright denies to completely. Several if you count each echo of Solas' last sentiments as separate occasions. How can you interpret the line "Sacrifice nothing you don't own, and remember you own no one but yourself" as anything but "Sacrificing other people is bad." I cannot see any other interpretation of it.

 

[Ellawynn]

@ Ellawynn and @ midnight tea

 

So I just went ahead and ask Feynite about the concept of sacrifice in Looking Glass. Here is her response.

 

http://feynites.tumb...aign=ask_answer

 

Man, that's great!

 

Now she just needs to bring it up in the story itself.

[FernRain]

What was the first response to the break up? I didn't play until like June.

[Eivuwan]

I too can only see Command and Conquer Red Alert 2, then again I am genuinely blond both on the outside and inside... so can you please explain how you found it?

 

Edit* When I search for it on Origin I find it, but it is not for free     

 

If they made a mistake, then they should just offer it for free imo. It was pretty annoying.

[Eivuwan]

Man, that's great!

 

Now she just needs to bring it up in the story itself.

 

I think she did bring it up in the story, but just not as much as you wanted. Also it's pretty normal to look at the world in black and white when you're emotional and Lavellan is emotional and we are reading the story through her perspective. It would be really unnatural if she entered Arlathan being all wise and insightful. Also, you have a loottt more criticisms for Looking Glass than praise which makes me wonder why you keep reading it if you dislike it so much.

[Alyka]

I am on fire!  A request for Alyka!

 

This one is a bit... smutty, I guess?  No nudity, though...

 

Spoiler

 

Can't believe I keep forgetting Solas' freckles...

Wonderful!

Thank you so much DarthEmpress! I will treasure it.

[Raeona]

I was about to buy the Solas tea and the Garrus tea over at Adagio: https://www.adagio.c...tml?blend=24566, everything was good to go, until I got to the checkout and realised it was all in US dollars. Ah yes, the good old 'double the price at the check out' manoeuvre. Curse you tea people, why would you betray me like this?

 

Now I shall be denied the ridiculous joys of defiantly drinking Solas themed tea. 

[Renmiri1]

Anyone noticed that next week will be the 1 year anniversary of the DAI launch ?

 

[NightSymphony]

I was about to buy the Solas tea and the Garrus tea over at Adagio: https://www.adagio.c...tml?blend=24566, everything was good to go, until I got to the checkout and realised it was all in US dollars. Ah yes, the good old 'double the price at the check out' manoeuvre. Curse you tea people, why would you betray me like this?

 

Now I shall be denied the ridiculous joys of defiantly drinking Solas themed tea. 

You might be able to get someone in the US to buy it and ship it to you. It might be cheaper that way.

 

Edit: Nevermind..I just realized it wouldn't matter. I'm tired and my brain is not working right now.

[Raeona]

You might be able to get someone in the US to buy it and ship it to you. It might be cheaper that way.

 

Edit: Nevermind..I just realized it wouldn't matter. I'm tired and my brain is not working right now.

 

Heh, if it's any consolation I had the exact same conversation with my aunt who patronisingly told me why that was a dumb plan. Apparently she doesn't want to pay for my cross pacific shipping for video game based themed tea either. Ah well, earl grey will never desert me. 

[Ellawynn]

I think she did bring it up in the story, but just not as much as you wanted. Also it's pretty normal to look at the world in black and white when you're emotional and Lavellan is emotional and we are reading the story through her perspective. It would be really unnatural if she entered Arlathan being all wise and insightful. Also, you have a loottt more criticisms for Looking Glass than praise which makes me wonder why you keep reading it if you dislike it so much.

Because I enjoy reading. Because I find that discussion of a work can be just as entertaining as the work itself, if not moreso. Because there are times where it truly does pull me in - they just sometimes end in me being kicked right back out.

 

I mean, I don't hate it. For fanfiction standards, it's pretty good. But there's very little discussion to be had if we all just sing Feynite's praises. Not to mention people are going to focus on and discuss the criticisms I find far more extensively than the positives - I mean, no one's started a conversation on how I liked the Mythal talk, after all.

[Eivuwan]

Because I enjoy reading. Because I find that discussion of a work can be just as entertaining as the work itself, if not moreso. Because there are times where it truly does pull me in - they just sometimes end in me being kicked right back out.

 

I mean, I don't hate it. For fanfiction standards, it's pretty good. But there's very little discussion to be had if we all just sing Feynite's praises. Not to mention people are going to focus on and discuss the criticisms I find far more extensively than the positives - I mean, no one's started a conversation on how I liked the Mythal talk, after all.

 

I suppose. It's just that your negative reactions are so passionate that it makes me think you hate the work. Also, keep in mind that your interpretations of Solas and the Evanuris are no more valid than Feynites'. You keep saying that this character or that character is OOC, but that's merely your opinion and not a fact. We don't know much about what happened in ancient Arlathan after all or what Solas would be like if circumstances were different.

[Ellawynn]

 

I suppose. It's just that your negative reactions are so passionate that it makes me think you hate the work. Also, keep in mind that your interpretations of Solas and the Evanuris are no more valid than Feynites'. You keep saying that this character or that character is OOC, but that's merely your opinion and not a fact. We don't know much about what happened in ancient Arlathan after all or what Solas would be like if circumstances were different.

 

It's always easier to criticize, especially when you feel like one of the few who will do so.

 

But oh yes, it is absolutely my opinion. Neither you nor Feynite nor anyone else have to listen to it, much less accept it as fact. And I'll point out that it's very, very hard to accuse any of the canon characters of being out of character since most of them - Pride in particular - are basically just OCs. My issue is less that her interpretation is explicitly non-canonical, and more that it's extremely simplistic. 

 

On the subject of Pride - I can buy him as a past version of Solas. But I... don't think I like him as much. He's cute. But that's pretty much all he is, currently. 

[Garnet]

 

 

 

It's always easier to criticize, especially when you feel like one of the few who will do so.

 

But oh yes, it is absolutely my opinion. Neither you nor Feynite nor anyone else have to listen to it, much less accept it as fact. And I'll point out that it's very, very hard to accuse any of the canon characters of being out of character since most of them - Pride in particular - are basically just OCs. My issue is less that her interpretation is explicitly non-canonical, and more that it's extremely simplistic. 

 

On the subject of Pride - I can buy him as a past version of Solas. But I... don't think I like him as much. He's cute. But that's pretty much all he is, currently. 

 

 

I am not all caught up on the current chapter, (so I haven't been reading all the comments about it) but the point of Pride is that he's an inexperienced version of Solas. He is Solas before he became wise and battle hardened and world weary. He's still intelligent and thoughtful but he's innocent and more naive. He doesn't know a lot of things his future self did. I agree he's cute, but there is definitely more to him than that. I also think his character is still being built up in the story and shows a lot of future potential.

[Eivuwan]

 

 

 

It's always easier to criticize, especially when you feel like one of the few who will do so.

 

But oh yes, it is absolutely my opinion. Neither you nor Feynite nor anyone else have to listen to it, much less accept it as fact. And I'll point out that it's very, very hard to accuse any of the canon characters of being out of character since most of them - Pride in particular - are basically just OCs. My issue is less that her interpretation is explicitly non-canonical, and more that it's extremely simplistic. 

 

On the subject of Pride - I can buy him as a past version of Solas. But I... don't think I like him as much. He's cute. But that's pretty much all he is, currently. 

 

 

Compared to the other fanfics out there, her characterization is actually quite nuanced. I just feel that your judgements are quite harsh for a fanfic. Could she do a better job flushing out Pride and the Evanuris? Could she do more to show how they are all multi-facet characters? Maybe. I simply feel that she has already described different perspectives and ways of seeing things pretty well.

[Kadan]

Maybe I'm way off base, but most character's are developed over the length of a story. Few writers describe them fully from the beginning. I feel like I've seen a lot of development with Pride through each chapter, relevant information is provided when needed. There is only so much information the writer can feed the reader before they say ugh, too much! I'd much prefer to see it happen over the course of the story rather than all at once. All at once doesn't make sense, and it's too much to read in one sitting. She's developing multiple OCs and has done a good job of making them all unique and different. We learn more about them as they interact, and face new information, or challenges.

 

Edit: Crap I just realized I've hit top of the thread for the last two pages!

 

Source

 

[Ellawynn]

I am not all caught up on the current chapter, (so I haven't been reading all the comments about it) but the point of Pride is that he's an inexperienced version of Solas. He is Solas before he became wise and battle hardened and world weary. He's still intelligent and thoughtful but he's innocent and more naive. He doesn't know a lot of things his future self did. I agree he's cute, but there is definitely more to him than that. I also think his character is still being built up in the story and shows a lot of future potential.

Hmm. He's gained some depth lately. And yes, he certainly has potential. Although I swear, if this story ends with Lavellan becoming "The new Dread Wolf" or something, I'm leaving. That's probably the one thing that could make me give up before it's finished.

 

Still... at least she's improved a lot from her Solas in Dread Wolf's Heart.

 

Compared to the other fanfics out there, her characterization is actually quite nuanced. I just feel that your judgements are quite harsh for a fanfic. Could she do a better job flushing out Pride and the Evanuris? Could she do more to show how they are all multi-facet characters? Maybe. I simply feel that she has already described different perspectives and ways of seeing things pretty well.

 

If I had stumbled upon completely of my own accord, maybe I'd agree. But with as much popularity as LG has seen, I came in expecting a bit more than average fanfic quality - and it's not as though I'm telling any of this to Feynite herself.

[Cee]

As I guessed, it seems the Jade Empire thing may be fixed and available starting tomorrow. I think it got halfway flagged today by mistake. Flagged as free but not letting anyone download it. So try and check then if interested.

[midnight tea]

Uh, I'm getting all wall-of-text'y, so it'll likely be last response this long, simply to not clutter the thread, even if under spoiler - besides I'm not sure I have anything else to add...

 

Spoiler

I am really... I'd really rather not write another round of essays on how Lavellan (And through her, Feynite) demonizes the Evanuris and Elvhenan as a whole.To try and put it as shortly as possible  - Mythal, June, the Evanuris, the random workers at Mythal's Temple, side characters who are barely even named - just about every character who fundamentally disagrees with or dislikes Lavellan, she judges - and she finds them lacking. The Evanuris are obsessed with personal glory, the Elvhen nobility are snotty jerks, Elgar'nan's a vicious murderer burning people alive in public (nevermind that they deserved some form of punishment.) None of them have any redeeming qualities whatsoever. No flashes of kindness, nothing.

 

Spoiler

Of course she judges and she finds them lacking. The narrator isn't an objective one - everything is colored by Lavellan's emotions after the trauma of losing her world, which reflects Solas's own sentiments after creating the Veil and waking from his slumber. No real person from flesh and bone can go through something like it and just... shake it off. And Lavellan doesn't have the luxury of thousands years old slumber to deal with even half of her pain, or even deal with it in peace, as she's thrown into another world-shaking events. That she's biased and treats Elvenhan hardly is not just expected - it would be weird if it didn't happen. In fact, given everything that's happen, she's holding up quite well, biased evaluation of Elvenhan or not.

 

But it's either unfair or too early to say that elvhen civilization has no redeeming qualities, given that we don't know exactly where the story will go or how it will end, or to say that author only demonizes Evanuris and Elvenhan or anyone who is mean to Lavellan. It's ironic to accuse author/protagonist of black-and-white assessment, when assessment of their action/work is no less black-and-white.

 

We're peppered by small gestures, be it mean or kind, all throughout the work - like elves from expedition to Deep Roads defending her from Pride or some elves from palace approaching her with curiosity and her noticing that their attitude towards her changes in time, even if slowly by her standards, but probably in fast pace to those used to having pretty much all time in the world - that you choose to focus on negative I think speaks more of your perspective of Feynite's work rather than Feynite's work per se, or so it seems.

 

 

And I'd be willing to accept all of this if it weren't for how the story goes out of it's way to validate her - for f*ck's sake, during that scene in the Tavern with Haninan, you literally have a gaggle of characters stumble in just to badmouth the Evanuris. That's it. That's their character. They aren't even given names. There's absolutely no other reason for that to be there than to validate Lavellan's view of the situation, to make the reader go "Holy crap Lavellan, you're right, the Evanuris are terrible in literally every respect."

 

I'm going to repeat - given that we know from Solas and fractions of history we saw while going through Eluvians in Trespasser that Evanuris were indeed pretty power-hungry and were about to destroy the entire world (and are probably going to return in canon story as some sort of blighted terror to swallow all), what makes you think that they weren't pretty terrible, at least in that moment in history, given that the Leaders are already established, even if not yet to be recognized in Elvenhan as gods?

 

Plus - you're nitpicking at a detail that is happening relatively early in the story; at that point the story meanders in establishing Elvenhan, the power structure and the fact that both people and its leaders became settled in their ways.

 

That doesn't mean that the story will continue to paint them all as relatively simplistic - Mythal might be painted to have a pretty dark side now, but she's still pretty goddamn nuanced. June's hidden and more vulnerable side, as well as terrible decision that pushed him to killing his mother and probably the reason why he is the way he is has been revealed to us through Haninan - and soon we're likely going to see Andruil, though to what end we're yet to see.

 

Plus, if anything, the random elf dudes are not doing anything people don't do even if they're not ruled by power-hungry dictators - they complain at those in power (especially that their meeting and hijinks that ensued are likely a hot topic in the city, duh). In other news, water is wet and the sky is blue.

 

Besides - it's implied through narrative that if the time didn't change, it would be Haninan and Solas who'd likely hear the exact same conversation, no Lavellan required (given that it's also heavily implied that Haninan is a father-figure who molded Solas in his youth).

I mean, something had to motivate the guy to start the rebellion to defeat the false gods and those enslaved by them in the canon story, only to lock them away to prevent them from destroying the entire world... right?

 

 

 

Mythal (The person who's wrong) and Pride (The person's who's also wrong but can maybe shown Lavellan's right way) disagree with her. That's my point. Perhaps if this disagreement came from Curiosity or Haninan, if this disagreement caused Lavellan to stop and examine her beliefs, caused Lavellan to display the same growth and change she demands of Pride, demands of this world, then I'd be happy. But no. It comes from Mythal, who's being painted as a cruel murderer, and Pride, who's being painted as desperately floundering to maintain faith.

 

And there's a difference between having short conversations and concessions over immediate actions, and actual, honest challenges to a character. Consider all the times Lavellan's been wrong. It's over small things. If they should go into the Titan, if she should've attacked Mythal. Perhaps the only time Lavellan was truly called out was by Haninan over whether she should tell Pride - and that's a big reason why I thought things were getting better.

--

To give a better demonstration of what I mean by challenge - Consider Pride. Consider the way the narrative treats him - consider how it examines his beliefs and ideas, how he's shown as changing, how Lavellan preens whenever he echoes her opinions on points they're previously disagreed on (The dwarves, for instance.) Pride is being challenged. Pride is being changed. Lavellan is not. 

 

Haninan might have been the one who'd given her the impulse, but it was Pride who cornered her and basically spelled out to her her that she's patronizing him and keeping him in the dark, even though he does everything in his power to help her and earn her trust. So basically she gives him the same treatment Solas gave her in the game. That's not the first or last time she realizes that in many regards she mirrors Solas faulty behavior to a T.

 

So, really - she doesn't grow? She isn't shown to change her mind?

 

Plus... she's only wrong with small things? Because feeling that she contributed to the death of Compassion by a string of her choices and actions, or in fact destroyed the world by not killing Solas when she had possibility to do so are small and inconsequential things?

 

The woman is basically swimming in guilt, finding faults in almost everything she does and questions herself at almost every step. That you don't see it is one of the reason why I wonder whether we indeed read he same thing.

 

Also... she should be changed to what exactly? A person who treats dwarves as lesser beings? Acceptance of civilization that is doomed to experience a downfall and pull entire world with it unless things change?

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're demanding from the character at the moment.

 

And should we ignore all the change that happened after, say, she got her Ghostly Entourage and experienced something of a possession, which eventually led to very tight friendship with Compassion, Curiosity and Rage and appreciation of the world in which Fade flows freely into the world?

 

Also - Pride is a special case and you know it. So it's unfair to bring him up in such straightforward narrative assessment. It's all kind of messed up situation with him: she loves his past version and she wants him back, while at the same time she doesn't, because it means that he's doomed to be unhappy and set in his ways, she's both off-put by how different Pride is, but at the same time attracted to his purity... really, it's a whole category on its own and the biggest personal cluster**** she has to deal with.

 

 

At no point does she concede - as Pride had with the dwarves, as he did with her personhood, as he'll likely eventually do with the Evanuris and Mythal - that her core beliefs are in need of re-examining.

 

Just because it's subtler doesn't mean that she doesn't change. But Elvenhan, elves and Evanuris risk doom if they won't change in more meaningful way. We know what will happen if they won't. Whatever may be salvaged from Elvenhan, its current incarnation and approach simply doesn't work. She knows what will happen if things won't be change. We know it. What exactly is to re-examine here - they have to change, otherwise everything is doomed. But I'm yet to see the story to go to a point to asses that everything Lavellan does and proposes is 100% right. Heck, she herself isn't sure she herself is right.

 

 

 

In addition to making Lavellan infuriating, it makes Pride seem like a dull child, in desperate need of Lavellan to "better" him, rather than a equal partner who's ideas and beliefs are given the same weight Lavellan's are, by both the story and by Lavellan herself. 

 

Pride in that particular timeline is still very young, while Lavellan has not only experienced things that are mostly alien to creatures of this world, but she also intimately knew a very old, wise elf who had time to grow as well as share his own wisdom with her (be it directly or through her seeing what his struggle done to him).

In that sense Solas schools Pride THROUGH her. It's not just all Righteous And Inspiring Lavellan Who Is Always Right. Most things she draws from aren't just abstract concepts or unexplicable inherent wisdom, but her own, heavy experience, or experience of those she surrounded herself with, whether she shares something smart with young Pride that stems from her time with Solas or the world he left behind, or creates her first barrier while remembering how Dorian or Vivienne had done or explained it.

 

So... what equal treatment we're talking about exactly at this point? Clearly Pride is yet to grow as a person, and Lavellan is yet to make sense out of her feelings to him. Both of them are hot messes, which is why it confuses me that you'e treating Lavellan like she's not, or that for some reason she isn't growing or will not grow further. Her change will simply be different that Pride's because both have a different sets of issues to overcome. Character growth can mean many things.

 

 

 

I don't think Elvhenan was right at all. I think they were nuanced, I think Lavellan is nuanced as well, and I'm unspeakably frustrated at how the story deigns to paint them so black-and-white. The fact that this in a Solavellan fic, where Solas is all about greyness and complexity and seeing the nuance to what others dismiss as simple, just makes it all the worse.

 

I send you to what I've mentioned above. This Solavellan fanfiction is different from others precisely because we see Solas when he WASN'T all about greyness and complexity, but in the (sped up process) of getting there as well as observing what may or may not have got him there.

 

Also, I'd like to point out that Solas himself, at the end of Trespasser, admitted that what led to Evanuris rising to power was because "war breeds fear, fear breeds the need for simplicity - good, and evil, right and wrong, chains of commands" (in other words: black and white).

 

So yes, it seems that the canon world that gave birth to him has fallen PRECISELY because it or its leaders lost the ability to see nuance (an issue that is not alien even to our current, modern IRL world, especially given the latest turmoils).

 

In other words, I think you're may be missing the point.

 

 

As for Lavellan's questioning - again, her response is literally "Well I don't agree with that." Not "Well, I question how far that can be taken." Not exactly much room for interpretation.

 

I'm not really sure what's your problem here: she says that she disagrees - she doesn't make any definitive statements or continues the debate, nor the narrative bends over backwards to support her.

In fact, the whole thing ends with Pride offering to further explain to her the tenets of elvhen society in order to help her understand it and she calmly accepts his offer to teach her about it during them dining together.

 

So... she's willing to listen. Not exactly much room for interpretation here indeed.

 

 

 

Really? Are remarks like this truly called for? Honestly.

 

I'm not really sure what you expect me to say, when we have such vastly different impressions of her work it does indeed feels like we're reading a different piece of fiction. And I'm saying it as something of a 'casual' reader of that or other pieces of fanfiction - I simply genuinely get a different impression from yours while reading that particular work. If anything, it's certainly interesting to see how a single work can attract such different perspectives.

 

 

On Mythal's sacrifice - again, there are two points where Lavellan just outright denies to completely. Several if you count each echo of Solas' last sentiments as separate occasions. How can you interpret the line "Sacrifice nothing you don't own, and remember you own no one but yourself" as anything but "Sacrificing other people is bad."

 

But sacrificing people IS bad. It should be avoided at all costs if unnecessary. That people in power do it doesn't mean that they can forget it. Because sadly oftentimes they apparently do. And then it just turns into a slippery slope.

 

Just because someone in power is somewhat exempt from making certain sacrifices in that regard shouldn't forget that sacrifice is bad, just like a soldier or executioner shouldn't forget that killing someone else is generally a bad thing as well, even if it's their job to do it.