153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Eivuwan]

I never particularly understood that sentiment.  You put a creative work out into the world and people will and do have the right to talk about it; critically/uncritically -- and providing meaningful discussion about a work or saying why they didn't like it is not distasteful.  You have to accept that as an artist people will do that, and frankly you can ignore it.  You take in what criticism and what praise you want.  It's out there - you've published it whether you get paid or not is not relevant.  There are artists that we talk about all the time that died poor and never knowing fame so you know..

 

Every writer is an amateur at first.  It takes a lot to get paid because the unfortunate truth is that the world devalues writing -- many think it's something they can do(mostly because we have to write in order to communicate unlike say drawing) and it's just not so.  Does it suck sometimes to hear something not postive about a piece...most certainly but I think quashing discussion and criticism is wrong.  Not because the writer/author won't grow...but because it devalues creative works as something easy that require no thought. They are not. They deserve to be commended for the hard work but they also deserve to be taken apart and put back together with a critical eye. 

 

I agree with you for the most part, but there is a place to do that I don't think it's here or on AO3. I think it's important to respect the culture of the whatever discussion group you're in whether you agree with it or not.

[BoscoBread]

I agree with you for the most part, but there is a place to do that I don't think it's here or on AO3. I think it's important to respect the culture of the whatever discussion group you're in whether you agree with it or not.

I do agree. That's something people have to feel out and that's the risk you run by posting stuff like that on a forum, but again there may be other forums on here  that are more open tot hat. You have to feel out the atmosphere.  Though I do think saying "i didn't particularly like this because x,y,z"  isnot that bad. It's no different than the multitudes of discussions we've had on here about preferences i.e. hahren/dalen, AU's, canon, rarepairs blah blah.  

[S.W.]

I never particularly understood that sentiment.  You put a creative work out into the world and people will and do have the right to talk about it; critically/uncritically -- and providing meaningful discussion about a work or saying why they didn't like it is not distasteful.  You have to accept that as an artist people will do that, and frankly you can ignore it.  You take in what criticism and what praise you want.  It's out there - you've published it whether you get paid or not is not relevant.  There are artists that we talk about all the time that died poor and never knowing fame so you know..
 
Every writer is an amateur at first.  It takes a lot to get paid because the unfortunate truth is that the world devalues writing -- many think it's something they can do(mostly because we have to write in order to communicate unlike say drawing) and it's just not so.  Does it suck sometimes to hear something not postive about a piece...most certainly but I think quashing discussion and criticism is wrong.  Not because the writer/author won't grow...but because it devalues creative works as something easy that require no thought. They are not. They deserve to be commended for the hard work but they also deserve to be taken apart and put back together with a critical eye.

To an extent I think there's some truth in this, but I think it's worth considering that people write for different reasons. Not everyone aims to write to a polished, professional standard. Improvement isn't necessarily everyone's aim, so I think there's some justification in saving yourself the pain of criticism if it has literally nothing to do with what you're writing. It's perfectly ok to be sensitive about criticism, I think most people are, it's just a case of evaluating whether you need it, and if so, how best to deal with it.
 
I would say that if an author isn't interested in hearing criticism, then I don't see any harm voicing it elsewhere? Not in public, of course, but if I'd read some amateur's work that I didn't like, I might discuss that with a group of friends instead? The author's still happy, and I'd have had those thoughts anyway, the only difference is that a few people know them and I've gotten the chance to vocalise them. Whilst technically this thread is public, so I can see why you'd be wary, in practice it functions much more like a discussion group with a small public advertisement than a literal platform in the street.

Speaking for myself, I've enjoyed reading your criticisms, Ellawyn. I don't entirely agree, but they're interesting food for thought.

[Neria Rose]

So, I recently (as in today) found out I managed to survive the first block of classes at my school. In honor of that (I admit, I'm ecstatic), have a 'general canine blood supply' for Solas. He's shy a few arteries on his head since this skeleton has but two eyes .

 

Spoiler

#DreadWolf@vetschool

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

To an extent I think there's some truth in this, but I think it's worth considering that people write for different reasons. Not everyone aims to write to a polished, professional standard. Improvement isn't necessarily everyone's aim, so I think there's some justification in saving yourself the pain of criticism if it has literally nothing to do with what you're writing. It's perfectly ok to be sensitive about criticism, I think most people are, it's just a case of evaluating whether you need it, and if so, how best to deal with it.

But it's still acceptable to criticize amateur YouTube videos, art, music, meta-posts, contest entries, or cosplays.  Even if feedback was not solicited, even if the creator only did it "for themselves."  I don't know if it's just the BioWare fandom, but for whatever reason, I only seem to hear this attitude toward writers, and TBH it confuses and somewhat worries me   

I don't think writing is somehow unique in fandom. IMO perfectly ok for the creator to say they're not interested in hearing criticism of their work. That's their prerogative.  But it's no one's place to say that criticism should not happen, whatever the medium or intended audience.

[lynroy]

There's a 'dear Fen'Harel' thread.  Anyone want to help spread the egg love?

My mind went to dirty places with this.

[gottaloveme]

Thank you one and all for your help (she says pulling herself out from under the avalanche of posts that is the Solas thread).

 

Spoiler

Having finished Trespasser, I would love to know what's going on in his head.

[S.W.]

But it's still acceptable to criticize amateur YouTube videos, art, music, meta-posts, contest entries, or cosplays.  Even if feedback was not solicited, even if the creator only did it "for themselves."  I don't know if it's just the BioWare fandom, but for whatever reason, I only seem to hear this attitude toward writers, and TBH it confuses and somewhat worries me   

I don't think writing is somehow unique in fandom. IMO perfectly ok for the creator to say they're not interested in hearing criticism of their work. That's their prerogative.  But it's no one's place to say that criticism should not happen, whatever the medium or intended audience.

Oh yeah, I agree with this all actually - I find the idea that you can't be critical, full stop, if the writer requests, pretty weird. What I think works is assessing where's the most appropriate forum for it. I don't see anything wrong with us debating fanfiction on this thread in the slightest. I don't think it's rude or weird or unacceptable to do it here, given that the work was shared publicly on AO3 (usually). And given the popularity of Feynite's work, it's possibly expected that it'll be discussed here, and that some people may have issues with it.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Oh yeah, I agree with this all actually - I find the idea that you can't be critical, full stop, if the writer requests, pretty weird. What I think works is assessing where's the most appropriate forum for it. I don't see anything wrong with us debating fanfiction on this thread in the slightest. I don't think it's rude or weird or unacceptable to do it here, given that the work was shared publicly on AO3 (usually). And given the popularity of Feynite's work, it's possibly expected that it'll be discussed here, and that some people may have issues with it.

 

I know, I just...I have some feels about this topic 

 

Like I said, totally fine for a creator of any sort to request no critical comments or feedback.  And on a work-by-work, creator-by-creator basis, I think respecting that request is pretty easy to do.  But I worry when avoiding criticism starts to become the default for a fandom, or a forum.  When the individual choice of "I don't want to hear criticism" becomes the collective agreement of "We shouldn't give criticism."  The attitude starts to change from "criticism is helpful" to "criticism is bad/hurtful/unwelcome."  People begin to assume that criticism is something negative to be taken personally, when it's anything but.

 

You only get better via criticism, whether that's being your own critic, or reading it from others.  Any fandom that develops a culture of shying away from honest critique is shooting itself in the balls, whether that creative collapse happens relatively quickly or over a course of years.

[laurelinvanyar]

I know, I just...I have some feels about this topic 

 

Like I said, totally fine for a creator of any sort to request no critical comments or feedback.  And on a work-by-work, creator-by-creator basis, I think respecting that request is pretty easy to do.  But I worry when avoiding criticism starts to become the default for a fandom, or a forum.  When the individual choice of "I don't want to hear criticism" becomes the collective agreement of "We shouldn't give criticism."  The attitude starts to change from "criticism is helpful" to "criticism is bad/hurtful/unwelcome."  People begin to assume that criticism is something negative to be taken personally, when it's anything but.

 

You only get better via criticism, whether that's being your own critic, or reading it from others.  Any fandom that develops a culture of shying away from honest critique is shooting itself in the balls, whether that creative collapse happens relatively quickly or over a course of years.

^This, All of this. 

 

It's not just good for the person receiving feedback either. It's good to be consuming media, all media, critically. And not tumblr "critical", I mean actual critical thought and analysis. It's good to be discerning in what you read and consume, to broaden your horizons. 

[Eivuwan]

I mean it also depends on how you give the criticism. I think people's reaction would have been less negative had the criticism been more balanced.

[dawnstone]

I never particularly understood that sentiment.  You put a creative work out into the world and people will and do have the right to talk about it; critically/uncritically -- and providing meaningful discussion about a work or saying why they didn't like it is not distasteful.  You have to accept that as an artist people will do that, and frankly you can ignore it.  You take in what criticism and what praise you want.  It's out there - you've published it whether you get paid or not is not relevant.  There are artists that we talk about all the time that died poor and never knowing fame so you know..

 

Every writer is an amateur at first.  It takes a lot to get paid because the unfortunate truth is that the world devalues writing -- many think it's something they can do(mostly because we have to write in order to communicate unlike say drawing) and it's just not so.  Does it suck sometimes to hear something not postive about a piece...most certainly but I think quashing discussion and criticism is wrong.  Not because the writer/author won't grow...but because it devalues creative works as something easy that require no thought. They are not. They deserve to be commended for the hard work but they also deserve to be taken apart and put back together with a critical eye. 

 

 

I think its one thing to put something out there and for people to talk about it, and something else altogether to go into a room full of people and start critiquing a work of in front of a person's friends or admirers. Sure you can do it, but don't be surprised if you get looked at like you just farted. That person's opinion could be perfectly true and valid, but the only thing people are going to remember is the smell.

 

And perhaps I am personally oversensitive and don't like seeing people feel down on their work, or intimidated, when they're just starting out or experimenting with what is for me is an enjoyable hobby.

 

As far as the payment debate goes, well, I write a little, and I don't consider my work to be "published", or worthy of critical review - partly because it's porn, partly because the majority of it was written more or less as a gift for whoever wrote the prompt. Publishing is compartmentalized in my head, as what people who get paid to make books and magazines do, and what I do is not that. Serious criticism like Ellawyn was doing, in my mind, is done for things someone paid for, and had feelings about and get medals for their work over.

 

Maybe I'm not taking my fanwork or the fanworks of others seriously enough? I don't really know.

 

Solas would probably be the best and the worst critic, because he'd always be completely honest with you, whether it made him sound like an asshole or not. Actually, my husband is a lot like that, which is why I don't share my work with him at all. Hmmm...

[CapricornSun]

Art post.

 

Pulchra Tenebris part 19.

Spoiler

Source: http://thefateshaper...olaslavellan-by

 

 

Solas and male Lavellan.

Spoiler

Source: http://schrodanger.t...ve-feelings-for

 

 

Trespasser: I am sorry, my friend. (Solas and Trevelyan friendship)

Spoiler

Source: http://the-firefall....ike-a-deity-she

 

 

Lovely art of Solas.

Spoiler

Source: http://celebrantsrap...761271/2e-solas

 

 

The Dread Egg.

Spoiler

Source: http://lilcatmagic.t.../the-dread-egg 

 

 

Solas, Emma, and Fenris from Keeping Secrets.

Spoiler

Source: http://onehundred-fa...sed-and-someone

 

 

Art prompt sketches by rhodaperdition.

Spoiler

Source: http://rhodaperditio...rkham-twigs-and

 

[Cee]

Dorian     

 

Your grad school AU hits me too much in the feels sometimes.

 

Definite feels this time around.

[Raeona]

Solas would probably be the best and the worst critic, because he'd always be completely honest with you, whether it made him sound like an asshole or not. Actually, my husband is a lot like that, which is why I don't share my work with him at all. Hmmm...

 

Solas would be just the worst. After seeing the heights of Elvhen artistry steeped in magic, the best you can hope for is 'Impressive...for a little gremlin'. The patronizing sod. 

 

I think my favourite Solas pic sum it up nicely - spoiler for size

Spoiler

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think its one thing to put something out there and for people to talk about it, and something else altogether to go into a room full of people and start critiquing a work of in front of a person's friends or admirers. Sure you can do it, but don't be surprised if you get looked at like you just farted. That person's opinion could be perfectly true and valid, but the only thing people are going to remember is the smell.

 

IRL, in a convention environment, or in any environment where you can easily discern who's offended by what, I'd totally agree. But unfortunately, the format of interaction on the Internet is open and relatively anonymous.  Whether it's here, tumblr, or AO3, reddit, whatever.

 

Lacking knowledge of people's identities or preferences, there is no alternative to voicing opinions publicly, except not to say them at all.  Whether those opinions are positive or critical.  It's not like I would go around PMing every person in this thread and asking what they want/don't want to hear, and I wouldn't expect that from anyone else either.

 

*sigh*  I dunno.  No good solution for this sort of thing that will make everyone happy.  

[Ellawynn]

After a nap and a few hours of TV, I think my cold's finally clearing up. Hooraaaay. Now what to do with all these tissues...

 

Heh, it's dangerous to threaten to give feedback when writers are about. That way lies madness. 

 

 

I... could try? But I can't promise I'll get back to you on a timely basis. Or give any meaningful criticism. Or... anything...

 

I mean it also depends on how you give the criticism. I think people's reaction would have been less negative had the criticism been more balanced.

 

After taking a breath and a step back, I realize that I being a bit overly harsh. I apologize for that.

 

But I won't apologize for having a critical opinion, or for giving voice to it.

[Eivuwan]

After a nap and a few hours of TV, I think my cold's finally clearing up. Hooraaaay. Now what to do with all these tissues...

 

 

I... could try? But I can't promise I'll get back to you on a timely basis. Or give any meaningful criticism. Or... anything...

 

 

After taking a breath and a step back, I realize that I being a bit overly harsh. I apologize for that.

 

But I won't apologize for having a critical opinion, or for giving voice to it.

 

Yeah, I don't mind hearing your opinion of Feynite's works in general. I think she does have a bias towards idealism which her Lavellan encompasses and this could lead to less grey and more black and white. But I don't think this bias is as bad as you make it out to be.

[dawnstone]

IRL, in a convention environment, or in any environment where you can easily discern who's offended by what, I'd totally agree. But unfortunately, the format of interaction on the Internet is open and relatively anonymous.  Whether it's here, tumblr, or AO3, reddit, whatever.

 

Lacking knowledge of people's identities or preferences, there is no alternative to voicing opinions publicly, except not to say them at all.  Whether those opinions are positive or critical.  It's not like I would go around PMing every person in this thread and asking what they want/don't want to hear, and I wouldn't expect that from anyone else either.

Yes, I can see that.

 

Sigh. I think I've been succumbing to a bit of tunnel vision, because I am extremely enamored with Feynite's work at the moment. All apologies, if anyone felt uncomfortable with my opinions. I fully expect and want thoughtful discussion to take place here.

 

I'm not a critic, when I like something it is unabashed and often blind and very unironic. I suspect the reverse is also true.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Yes, I can see that.

 

Sigh. I think I've been succumbing to a bit of tunnel vision, because I am extremely enamored with Feynite's work at the moment. All apologies, if anyone felt uncomfortable with my opinions. I fully expect and want thoughtful discussion to take place here.

 

I'm not a critic, when I like something it is unabashed and often blind and very unironic.

 

It's totes fine  I'm a bit of the opposite; I'm not a professional writer or editor, but I'm a bit of a grammar nazi  So IMO it's important to discuss things like fan works, critique, and what's ok and what isn't.  Everyone's coming at it from different perspectives.  It's how we develop and hopefully foster a positive fandom culture.

 

Hmm...we've done kitten cuddle puddles a few times.  Lemur cuddle huddle!

[midnight tea]

Solas would be just the worst. After seeing the heights of Elvhen artistry steeped in magic, the best you can hope for is 'Impressive...for a little gremlin'. The patronizing sod. 

 

I think my favourite Solas pic sum it up nicely - spoiler for size

Spoiler

 

Not necessarily. It depends what he himself values in art or any type of work done, and Solas in general seems to value passion and dedication, so it's probable that anyone who had put their heart into something would likely receive some sort of compliment (I mean, there are so many layers art can be evaluated or complimented/critiqued on - if not the concept part, then at least the craft or execution of an idea, etc, etc...).

 

Also, he's seen many things magical that entirely dwarfs anything current mages do, including Tevinter ones (especially with their penchant to steal Elvhen techniques and accomplishments and claiming authorship), yet he still compliments Dorian's magical skills and calls them remarkable, even if a tad flashy.

 

We also see him compliment the solid work of dwarves in ruins in Crestwood. He has good words about Varric's prose (even if not its quality, then definitely its effect on people as a source of escapism) and seems genuinely intrigued when Varric tells him that human literature is full of tricksters. And that's aside from a slew of what seem like genuine, un-patronizing compliments about skill of character of people he appreciates, whom he praises even if Inquisitor hates him and never really un-gremlins modern Thedosians for him.

 

(also - frilly cakes! Judging from the banter, he likely doesn't just enjoy them for their taste alone)

 

So basically, anywhere he sees skill and dedication, he's relatively quick to compliment someone. So I see no reason why he wouldn't have similar views on someone else's art or any accomplishment, really.

[Alyka]

The subject of 'DAI companions keeping their same sexual orientation but being a different gender' came up last week here in this thread. And so I thought to myself What would Solas look like as a woman?

I got out some paper and started to draw. Here is what I came up with:

Spoiler

 

[Cee]

The subject of 'DAI companions keeping their same sexual orientation but being a different gender' came up last week here in this thread. And so I thought to myself What would Solas look like as a woman?

I got out some paper and started to draw. Here is what I came up with:

Spoiler

 

 

I like this a lot. Nice job.

[Alyka]

I like this a lot. Nice job.

Thank you!

[Tess]

The subject of 'DAI companions keeping their same sexual orientation but being a different gender' came up last week here in this thread. And so I thought to myself What would Solas look like as a woman?

I got out some paper and started to draw. Here is what I came up with:

 

Lovely!