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[SoSolaris]

My thoughts are colored by how I view the horned race. I think their nature is savage. I liken them to wild animals that can be domesticated but their wild nature will still come out from time to time.

In that specific balcony scene, Solas was criticizing both the race and the ideology. I can understand why some people are offended by what he said and may consider it a back handed compliment. IMO, what he said was true. My Adaar may be a special snowflake but IMO sooner or later would give in to nature. It's why she's a mercenary. She just has more control of her baser Qunari instincts. Other than Adaar, I don't really recall any non-savage other horned people in-game.

Even Iron Bull agrees with Solas about the Qun and Qunari savagery:

• Sera: So you're free now or something? Must be nice to get rid of those Ben-Hasreholes.
• Iron Bull: You mean getting exiled from my people and declared Tal-Valshoth? Yeah, I should make a cake.
• Sera: You like drinking and singing and breaking beds. You'd already left.
• Iron Bull: The Qun keeps our savage nature in check. Without it, if I lose control...
• Sera: Pfft, heard that before. Don't worry. You get growly, I'll kick your arse.
• Iron Bull: Thank you.

Ah, I've never seen that banter before. Bull's perspective certainly makes me pause. However, I wonder if his views are a combination of what he has absorbed from teachings by the Qun and how Tal-Vashoth are traditionally thought of, and/or just simple knowledge of their own nature. In the banter with Solas, if he saves the Chargers, he states similar sentiments in that he is frightened of becoming like the other Tal-Vashoth.

However, I think that's mostly because he's been taught that that is the most horrible fate to befell a Qunari, and he fears the same result. I think he doesn't know for certain that his nature will lead him there. And maybe other violent Tal-Vashoth who left the Qun felt the same, once upon a time.

After all, they do not know anything else except that people like them are supposed to be violent and "savage," and combined with many previously being soldiers, it's not really any wonder that they turn to the life of mercenaries or bandits.

Besides the potential Inquisitor, I wish there were more instances of Vashoth just existing in the world. Living without the Qun to "keep their violent nature in check." Those born without Qun influence would be an easier case to dissect. There was that one codex entry that featured a Vashoth goat herder, which was interesting, but I'd like to see even more instances to settle whether the nature of the horned race is one prone to natural violence and ferocity, or if that behavior is simply a long standing self-fulfilling prophecy. Your Adaar may have a nature to give in to, but who's to say that most other Vashoth are like that, you know? And then that leads into how the Qunari themselves are culturally influenced, as well.

Still, using the term "savage creature" to describe a segment of people doesn't sit right with me, its implications unsettling even if applied in a fictional setting.

[S.W.]

qunari & solas stuff:

Spoiler

@MidnightTea: He is critical of the ideology of the qun in banters, certainly - i.e. he implies that the qun, in a banter with Iron Bull, is the reason why Qunari think themselves as mindless. In the balcony conversations with the vashoth inquisitior, he states simply:

"Qunari are savage creatures. Their ferocity held in check only by the rigid teachings of the Qun."

From this statement, he implies that violence and savagery is inherent to qunari. That contradicts with what he implies prior. That statement has nothing to do with the ideology - in fact, from this statement, one could easily launch a defence of the qun.

As for accusations of racism in general - I think that accusation certainly doesn't apply in the case of the dalish, because it's intra-racial politics being discussed - Solas is an elf, he's entitled to a opinion on his people's struggles, and I think he's allowed to be critical of the dalish because they claim to belong to the same culture, be of the same people, as his own. I think in general, it's a little complicated in Solas' case because elves have been coded as a racial underclass in Thedas, as an oppressed people, but he comes from a time that predates that to some extent.

I also think it's difficult to keep real world connotations out of things completely. Thedas in some ways mirrors a fictionalised medieval Europe split between the crumbling remains of the byzantine empire (Tevinter), and the fragmented nations of western europe. The Qunari likely represent the growing power in the east - likely the Ottomans, where Minrathous probably represents Constantinople. Understand that I find it quite uncomfortable, when Solas represents this romanticised remnant of a classical culture now lost forever, that this scholarly, highly abstract, highly intellectual male decides to calls the qunari - this eastern culture that is a source of fear and violence - 'savage'. Solas here is invoking racist stereotypes of middle eastern culture - as 'strange' or 'savage' or 'violent' - as descriptions of the qunari. That's difficult to watch for me.

I personally believe, given what he's said in banters, that the balcony scene is either a goof, or Solas is being particularly socially clueless at that moment, and it's not a full representation of his thoughts.
 

My first playthrough was actually a Qunari lady.  I had that balcony scene with him.  I was not bothered at all by his comments.  I completely agree with him about Qunari species and the Qun.

the qunari are my favourite race after the elves. actually, maybe as much as the elves.

don't do this to meeeeeeeee no no noooo.
 

My thoughts are colored by how I view the horned race.  I think their nature is savage.  I liken them to wild animals that can be domesticated but their wild nature will still come out from time to time.
 
In that specific balcony scene, Solas was criticizing both the race and the ideology.  I can understand why some people are offended by what he said and may consider it a back handed compliment.  IMO, what he said was true.  My Adaar may be a special snowflake but IMO sooner or later would give in to nature.  It's why she's a mercenary.  She just has more control of her baser Qunari instincts.  Other than Adaar, I don't really recall any non-savage other horned people in-game.

1. The sample of qunari we have encountered, particularly vashoth, who are born completely outside of the qun, is very small. Of all the qunari we have encountered, we have only encountered soldiers and mercenaries, plus iron bull, a spy. So of course they are quite skilled in armed combat, and it follows on that combat is a lifestyle and that they're prone to violence. This could be a cultural thing, and not intrinsic to being born a qunari - i.e. a horned person.

Given the selectiveness of the sample, and its small size, there is not substantial evidence, I think, to be drawing that kind of conclusion at all.

2. He's either critical of the ideology, or the race. Not both.
 

Even Iron Bull agrees with Solas about the Qun and Qunari savagery:

• Sera: So you're free now or something? Must be nice to get rid of those Ben-Hasreholes.
• Iron Bull: You mean getting exiled from my people and declared Tal-Valshoth? Yeah, I should make a cake.
• Sera: You like drinking and singing and breaking beds. You'd already left.
• Iron Bull: The Qun keeps our savage nature in check. Without it, if I lose control...
• Sera: Pfft, heard that before. Don't worry. You get growly, I'll kick your arse.
• Iron Bull: Thank you.

I think though Iron Bull is impacted by the ideology he has been taught though. Iron Bull follows the qun because he believes it absolutely necessary for him to stay rational. But on becoming Tal-Vashoth, does he begin slaughtering people? No, he doesn't. The Trespasser epilogue confirms that he doesn't.

but yeah, kittens.

[midnight tea]

Ah, I've never seen that banter before. Bull's perspective certainly makes me pause. However, I wonder if his views are a combination of what he has absorbed from teachings by the Qun and how Tal-Vashoth are traditionally thought of, and/or just simple knowledge of their own nature. In the banter with Solas, if he saves the Chargers, he states similar sentiments in that he is frightened of becoming like the other Tal-Vashoth.

However, I think that's mostly because he's been taught that that is the most horrible fate to befell a Qunari, and he fears the same result. I think he doesn't know for certain that his nature will lead him there. And maybe other violent Tal-Vashoth who left the Qun felt the same, once upon a time.

After all, they do not know anything else except that people like them are supposed to be violent and "savage," and combined with many previously being soldiers, it's not really any wonder that they turn to the life of mercenaries or bandits.

Besides the potential Inquisitor, I wish there were more instances of Vashoth just existing in the world. Living without the Qun to "keep their violent nature in check." Those born without Qun influence would be an easier case to dissect. There was that one codex entry that featured a Vashoth goat herder, which was interesting, but I'd like to see even more instances to settle whether the nature of the horned race is one prone to natural violence and ferocity, or if that behavior is simply a long standing self-fulfilling prophecy. Your Adaar may have a nature to give in to, but who's to say that most other Vashoth are like that, you know? And then that leads into how the Qunari themselves are culturally influenced, as well.

Still, using the term "savage creature" to describe a segment of people doesn't sit right with me, its implications unsettling even if applied in a fictional setting.

 

We also have to take into consideration one thing - unlike other races, the Qunari are bred. IB even mentions it during the drinking scene.

 

In principle it's probably no different than how we breed new breeds of dogs or cats - that, and if it's true that the Qunari have a mix of dragon blood in them (Cole mentions that Bull's horns are dragon ones),then mixing in or drinking dragon blood has been known to make Reavers aggressive, aside from other side effects. Therefore, they can indeed be more aggressive, just like Pitbull breed is generally more aggressive than, say, Border Collie.

 

Still, I assume this still has a ton more to do with how a person is brought up - after all, even a Pitbull can be raised to be very lovable and its dog instincts are kept in check. But yet again - they have to be raised that way or at least not exposed to violence and patology. And most Qunari are under very strict rules and being told that they're savage beats without them, so IMO it's a vicious circle; even if many of them find their way out of the Qun, most are either lost or shunned by other races and cultures that fear them. So they sort of fall into the cycle of violence or low expectations (low expectations from society or peers is known to have adverse effect on a person, even IRL) that doesn't let many of them grow or reach their potential.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Sure, it's not that bad. It was a mix of that and the "Dear Fen'harel" thread that made me sad :-P but I do recognize that there are people who have a more neutral view of him.
It's just a few posts, as you said, but since I just started adventuring more out there on the forums it still hurts some times o>_<o~
I guess there is even worse around? :-P

 

Really?  I thought that thread was funny.

 

...but I do have a somewhat perverse sense of humor, and sometimes I leave the safety of the Blanketfort long enough to poke the local wildlife with a big stick 

[SoSolaris]

We also have to take into consideration one thing - unlike other races, the Qunari are bred. IB even mentions it during the drinking scene.

In principle it's probably no different than we breed new breeds of dogs or cats - that, and if it's true that the Qunari have a mix of dragon blood in them (Cole mentions that Bull's horns are dragon ones),then mixing in or drinking dragon blood has been known to make Reavers aggressive, aside from other side effects. Therefore, they can indeed be more aggressive, just like Pitbull breed is generally more aggressive than, say, Border Collie.

Still, I assume this still has a ton more to do with how a person is brought up - after all, even a Pitbull can be raised to be a very lovable and its dog instincts are kept in check. But yet again - they have to be raised that way or at least not exposed to violence and patology. And most Qunari are under very strict rules and being told that they're savage beats without the, so IMO it's a vicious circle; even if many of them find their way out of the Qun, many of them probably are either lost or shunned by other races and cultures that fear them. So they sort of fall into the cycle of violence or low expectations (low expectations from society or peers is known to have adverse effect on a person, even IRL) that doesn't let many of them grow or reach their potential.

That's a very good point about them being bred. I didn't think of that. I also agree very much with your last paragraph, as I was sort of hinting at that too. People were speculating that the next game will involve Qunari as an effect of being supposedly set in Tevinter, and I'm really interested to see how more aspects of their society are handled.

[Ghost Gal]

I headcanon that I got to put them on trial.  The Inquisition is for all after all.  I didn't say 'the Inquisition is for everyone that meets the Chantry's approved level of existence.'

 

I don't consider Solas' friend's life any less valuable for being a spirit (nuts to the Chantry, says this elven apostate), but I also judge based on intent.

 

If they had intended to corrupt and destroy his friend, I'd kill them in a hare's breath. But they honestly didn't know that the spirit was friendly and that ordering it to kill would cause it to go berserk and attack them. Since the whole reason they summoned it was to protect themselves from being attacked and killed by bandits, you can bet your buttons they wouldn't have summoned or corrupted Wisdom if they'd known doing so would cause it to kill them instead.

 

Plus, let's be honest: most us players didn't know that spirits are naturally inclined toward being friendly and only become demons when twisted against their purpose until we played this game and met and talked to Solas, any more than those mages did. Most of Thedas simply doesn't know that spirits are naturally inclined toward "peaceful semi-existence" and only become corrupted by absorbing the negative emotions and expectations of mortals; so I don't think it's really fair to judge or kill them them over something they literally couldn't have possibly known since no one in Thedas teaches it.

 

I won't kill them for their ignorance... but I will publicly shame, deface, and berate them. I'll shame them so everyone can see what incompetent frauds they are ("foremost demon expert at Kirkwall" my pasty pale patootie), keep them under supervision so they can never summon or hurt another spirit again, and I'll use them as an educational example to the mage community. ("These idiots summoned a spirit against its will, which twisted it into a demon, which led to its death. Now, we're going to study the benevolent nature of spirits, the difference between a spirit and a demon, the causes of a spirit to become a demon, and use these idiots' story (and testimony) to learn what not to do when interacting with spirits and how not to treat benevolent spirits you encounter. And we're going to write it down and send copies everyone so everyone can know.")

 

Just killing them won't bring his friend back nor will it really prevent other mages from doing the same thing (in fact, it might turn other mages and Chantry members off because they'll be put off by you killing what they know are people over something they don't yet consider people), but keeping them around as an example might.

[Addictress]

Dark!Solas done wrong is a personal pet peeve of mine as well. I'm very attached to my idea of what dark!Solas is like and what the darkness in him is actually like, so I hate it when done in a way that makes no sense with his character.

I was telling my husband about this conversation and he chimed in:

Husband: I could totally see Solas in a BDSM realtionship with Vivienne, where Vivienne is his dom. "Darling, out there you might be a wolf, but in here, you are a kitten. My kitten."

...

Oh my god

[drosophila]

...

Oh my god

 

Heh, that conversation.

[Gwyvian]

*piles you with blankets and hands you a cup of hot chocolate/hot beverage of your choice*

 

This is a place of safety, lethallan.

 

@fly'harel: one of your agents flew into my face and caused me to walk into a door.  My dog later killed it in vengeance.  I am not sorry for the death of your agent.
 

 

*sniffle* Thank you! *drinks hot chocolate* Will the agony ever abate...?

 

Emergency blanket incoming! I added the cats for extra comfort.

 

 

*grabs blanket* Aww, kittens! Than you! I need waaaaay more kittens. *sniffle*

 

There's a reason this thread changed its name to the Blanket Fort

*gives many hugs*

Yeah, I have to hand it to the theory-crafters on this thread - I was not really surprised at all by the revelations made in Trespasser, only really by the extremity of Solas' plans, and that's because of their well-thought out, well-reasoned arguments and theories.
 
 *snip*

 

*hug* You guys are the best. I would totally not survive the Solas Experience without the Blanket Fort.

 

I'm just frustrated that I didn't get to *actually* go with Solas and let the world burn, haha... that would have been a happy ending for me. (I'd probably still be in torment, though.) But the option was there! Very thrilling and incredibly frustrating that that elf just left again.... at least he didn't break up with me this time. Yeah, only Solas can leave you stranded with one less arm and a promise to do something incredibly destructive like dooming civilization just to save the elves and still leave you wobbly-kneed because he seduces you with a few words and a kiss.

 

I really have to stop dwelling about this.

 

Or I could deflect with humor! I assume you guys have seen the short-short version of Solas' speech? Hahahaha it's hilarious. And totally cheering me up. Blankets + hot chocolate + kittens + Solas humor = slightly less agony.

 

*sob* Whyyyyyyyyyyyy couldn't I just go with him??????

[CapricornSun]

Art break.

 

A series of cute Solavellan comics by theresa-draws. 

Mornings. 

Spoiler

Source: http://theresa-draws...ry-fluffy-stuff

 

 

Pillow Marks 

Spoiler

Source: http://theresa-draws...prompts-its-not

 

 

Morning Kisses? 

Spoiler

Source: http://theresa-draws...-was-just-fluff

 

 

And here's the rest.

 

Reckoning. 

A very beautiful artwork of Solas (summoning a dragon?). 

Spoiler

Source: http://nipuni.tumblr...y-im-officially

 

 

Lavellan comforting Solas after the death of Wisdom (I'm guessing).

Spoiler

Source: http://curiousstrawb...im-doing-ﾉ-ヮ-ﾉﾟ

 

 

Solas and a smoking Lavellan.

Spoiler

Source: http://destinyaposta...7/sketchy-elves

 

 

Solas' child giving Solas a little kiss on the nose.

Spoiler

Source: http://trashwarden.t...dragons-partner

 

 

Lovely artwork of chibi Solas. With hair and without hair. 

Spoiler

Source: http://nihonhime.tum...or-bald-ㅅゞ-hm-i

 

 

Some DAI buttons.

Spoiler

Source: http://caledbuttscra...s-now-available

 

[Tess]

Solas AU.

 

https://www.facebook...yume2006cosplay

 

Spoiler

[FernRain]

Reckoning. 

A very beautiful artwork of Solas (summoning a dragon?). 

Spoiler

Source: http://nipuni.tumblr...y-im-officially

 

 

This one is giving me ideas of what he meant by "as this world burned in the raw chaos".

[Sable Rhapsody]

This one is giving me ideas of what he meant by "as this world burned in the raw chaos".

 

 

...to be fair, that's pretty much always my reaction to scary-powerful Trespasser Solas 

[Garnet]

Ohh. Solas' complexion is available on the nexus now. It looks really good. I also like the plain one a lot.

Spoiler

Shomplexions

[CapricornSun]

Latest Message Sent chapter is out. No smut. (They're all just picking out outfits to wear for Halamshiral, basically): 

http://archiveofouro...apters/12094913

 

Spoiler

It appears that Solas really did stop calling Ellana "da'len" and is now calling her "vhenan".

Also, from Aicosu's tumblr tags: #two more chapters after this until THE chapter? I think #and one of those is only a texting one so

[rowrow]

Yeah... every time he gets all pompous and says, "I was the foremost expert on demons in the Kirkwall Circle," I wanted to say, "Yeah, and Kirkwall is notorious for having gotten overrun by rogue demons and abominations, which started this whole Mage/Templar War. Clearly you guys don't know what you're doing."

 

I headcanon that while they were taken back to Skyhold, now everyone knows of their incompetence, and they are not allowed to live it down. All the sensible rebel mages and Cullen have them under constant scrutiny, they're not allowed to so much as look at a magic book without supervision, and everyone constantly throws their idiot mistakes back in their faces.

 

I actually thought those mages were represented how most mages in Thedas understand spirits and demons. They don't have Solas' knowledge, but then they're not Solas with his millennia of experience and pre-Veil knowledge. I took the head mage at his word that he was the foremost demon expert in Kirkwall.  We've gotten very used to killing demons since Origins. Presumably all those demons were once spirits like Solas' friend. So were these mages really more horrible and incompetent than any other mage we've seen so far? Merrill and Connor summoned spirits too, and arguably caused their death and suffering. Would we judge them the same way?

 

Edited to Add: I see you made this exact point in a subsequent post

[rowrow]

Yikes, I watched the scene on youtube and it was even more harsh that I imagined. That's some straight colonial nonsense, and the backhanded compliment made it even worse. I wish there was a dialogue option to call him out on it, regardless of metagaming.

Odd that it conflicts with the other banter you mentioned, as well. I'm trying to think of a way to reconcile the banter and this scene, but my brain is tired

 

Maybe the Inquisitor changes the way he thinks about Qunari? Though that makes less sense if the banter comes before the Balcony scene. Hmm.

[rowrow]

 

Re: Kirkwall mages.  Has been answered already but that mage introduced themselves as such.  Not only does he have a face that says "kill on sight!", his attitude and hearing Kirkwall mage made it easier for me to let Solas murder 'em.

 

Man, people are harsh on those Kirkwall mages. I'm like ... anybody who had to spend time in that festering ****hole deserves at least a bit of sympathy
 

[rowrow]

My thoughts are colored by how I view the horned race.  I think their nature is savage.  I liken them to wild animals that can be domesticated but their wild nature will still come out from time to time.

 

In that specific balcony scene, Solas was criticizing both the race and the ideology.  I can understand why some people are offended by what he said and may consider it a back handed compliment.  IMO, what he said was true.  My Adaar may be a special snowflake but IMO sooner or later would give in to nature.  It's why she's a mercenary.  She just has more control of her baser Qunari instincts.  Other than Adaar, I don't really recall any non-savage other horned people in-game.

 

Even Iron Bull agrees with Solas about the Qun and Qunari savagery:

• Sera: So you're free now or something? Must be nice to get rid of those Ben-Hasreholes.
• Iron Bull: You mean getting exiled from my people and declared Tal-Valshoth? Yeah, I should make a cake.
• Sera: You like drinking and singing and breaking beds. You'd already left.
• Iron Bull: The Qun keeps our savage nature in check. Without it, if I lose control...
• Sera: Pfft, heard that before. Don't worry. You get growly, I'll kick your arse.
• Iron Bull: Thank you.

 

 

Interesting. It makes me think of what was said about Qunari in DA2. I think it was Mother Petrice? She says that even their outcasts conform. That suggests that the Qunari themselves believe that they need conformity, even when they're outside the bounds of accepted society. Sten and Bull have spoken of Tal Vashoth in a way that suggests that they're considered savages, prone to destruction and anarchy. We know Sten himself had the most violent of freakouts when he thought he'd lost his identity as a member of the Beresaad.

 

I also remember Gatt and Tallis saying that the religion 'takes' easier with Qunari than other races. I don't know if wer'e meant to conclude that there is something inherent in Qunari nature that makes them need the rigidity of something like the Qun, or if it's just what the Qunari have been taught about themselves.

 

Possibly Solas is of two minds about this himself.

[CapricornSun]

Mini art post time.

 

Lavellan, Solas (in wolf form), and Pride (also in wolf form) from feynite's Looking Glass AU where both Lavellan and Solas make it through the rift and travel back in time.

Spoiler

Source: http://pyrrhy.tumblr...xcited-over-the

 

 

Version without Pride:

 

 

A scene from feynite's Bagel AU.

Spoiler

Source: http://thedreadedegg...-this-is-one-of

 

 

A preview of theartofjannawebb's Solavellan slide show.

Spoiler

Source: http://theartofjanna...her-to-post-the

 

 

Cute animation of Solas eating a corndog. (I think. xD)

Spoiler

Source: http://nachio.tumblr...st/133519993285

 

[rowrow]

We also have to take into consideration one thing - unlike oth-er races, the Qunari are bred. IB even mentions it during the drinking scene.

 

In principle it's probably no different than we breed new breeds of dogs or cats - that, and if it's true that the Qunari have a mix of dragon blood in them (Cole mentions that Bull's horns are dragon ones),then mixing in or drinking dragon blood has been known to make Reavers aggressive, aside from other side effects. Therefore, they can indeed be more aggressive, just like Pitbull breed is generally more aggressive than, say, Border Collie.

 

Still, I assume this still has a ton more to do with how a person is brought up - after all, even a Pitbull can be raised to be a very lovable and its dog instincts are kept in check. But yet again - they have to be raised that way or at least not exposed to violence and patology. And most Qunari are under very strict rules and being told that they're savage beats without the, so IMO it's a vicious circle; even if many of them find their way out of the Qun, many of them probably are either lost or shunned by other races and cultures that fear them. So they sort of fall into the cycle of violence or low expectations (low expectations from society or peers is known to have adverse effect on a person, even IRL) that doesn't let many of them grow or reach their potential.

 

That's an excellent point about their being bred. How long has this been going on though? How old is the Qun? And do we know if, say, members of the Antaam are more likely to rebel and become Vashoth than Qunari from other sections of the society? If so, those Vashoth would be passing those bred traits to their Vashoth children as well ...
 

[Addictress]

Oh I want to share Solas pics too

I am in the middle of my Solas romance playthrough and thanks to you guys listening to the trespasser soundtrack - I only found out today by reading this thread that the album is available on amazon.

Have I mentioned that I am currently quite obsessed with Solas?



Some more pics here:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

These are with my inquisitor, I hope you don't mind. But I really like these shots:

HHNNNGG

I went to bed obsessing over Solas, but for some reason I had a lengthy dream about my coworker instead. :/ I woke up embarrassed and decided to splice my memory of my dream and convince myself it was all about Solas. No. The dream was about SOLAS!!!!

[Addictress]

And this. This.

This.

This.

This right here.

source



I am doomed if elves ever become real. For real.

Reblog

[Illyria]

I thought the mage/templar war only began a couple of years after the Kirkwall chantry explosion, and was triggered after the discovery of a tranquil cure, by Grand Enchanter calling for a vote to abolish the circles?

I always headcanon the Orsino fight doesn't occur if you side with the mages since it literally makes no sense (coincidently: I love that you can call Varric out on that, and that he disapproves if you do). I'm pretty sure the devs just wanted to throw in another boss monster. Even then, I don't really blame any mage from Kirkwall for having a substandard education given the treatment of the mages there.

I usually let Solas kill the mages anyway - most of my inquisitors have very low opinions of demon-summoning (possibly comes with the role of fighting demons for a living), and were too exhausted to object by that point, so from an RP point of view it works. I still feel sorry for them, the poor sods.

 

You're right about the mage/templar war.  Anders set up the situation, Fiona was the one that started it.

 

Apparently it was an order from high up to add another boss fight.  Originally he wasn't meant to be a boss.  As far as I'm concerned Orsino survived if you sided with the mages and Varric's disapproval is because he wants you to stop prying.
 

[Illyria]

Man, people are harsh on those Kirkwall mages. I'm like ... anybody who had to spend time in that festering ****hole deserves at least a bit of sympathy
 

 

It's the fact that the guy has a really punchable face.