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[midnight tea]

I don't know where to put my thought into, so I decided that Solas thread is good as any place so...(and maybe it was discussed hunderds of times)

This was bugging me for a while.

Spoiler

The dragon age wikia says: "It is said that long ago, the Maker created the Fade as His first world.>...>He separated it from the first world by putting the Veil in between them". So, taking into account what we learn in Inquisition and Trespasser, doesn't it make Solas the Maker? O_o

 

Well, let's put it this way - it definitely messes with the Chantry teachings a lot

 

I can already imagine some devout Andrastians who never accepted Inquisitor (esp. of Dalish origin) minds and hearts to unravel... "Aha! So the Herald of Andraste wasn't the Herald of Andraste after all! It was some sort of strange elven magic!"

 

"Oh, you mean the same elven magic that constructed the Veil? You know, the one you say the Maker had created to separate the worlds, only it turns out that it was a powerful elf who actually did that to prevent elves as powerful as gods to undo the world? Oh, and by the way, it turns out that the Fade and magic and spirits aren't unnatural, but the Veiled world is the one that is unnatural."

devout Andrastians: *panic*!!!

 

Honestly, I can imagine that even if some truth about Fen'Harel ad his rebellion reach the public and no matter how the Divine embraces it or tries to explain it metaphorically (the way Giselle tries to do so, to my eternal annoyance, despite not really having a problem with that particular sister in general), I can already see a lot of people either being in denial about it or try and sweep everything under the rug in order to uphold the status quo.

If not, then... well... I smell a religious war on the horizon.

[roselavellan]

I just saw that post, what the hell. Ok sure, even if you think that, and believe that seriously, if you want to actually convince someone of your point of view, you wouldn't be so horribly passive-aggressive and nasty about it on anon, c'mon. Someone needs to deal with their petty aggression in a productive way instead of pissing random people off.

People act like total babies on tumblr. I don't get it.

 

It's not just tumblr, though, is it? I mean, the DA fandom here - outside the Solas thread, that is - also seems pretty... intense. I thought all the Solas-rage would have died down by now, but nope.

 

(Sorry for just popping in and out like this).

[NightSymphony]

I must say...this game looks way more beautiful on my computer than it did on my xbox 360. So many more details.  My Lavellan looks so beautiful all modded and stuff..hehe.  How do I take pictures?

[midnight tea]

It's not just tumblr, though, is it? I mean, the DA fandom here - outside the Solas thread, that is - also seems pretty... intense. I thought all the Solas-rage would have died down by now, but nope.

 

(Sorry for just popping in and out like this).

 

I think it mostly stems from the fact that some people have problem categorizing Solas - and it drives them crazy.

 

It would be just so easy if all the grays were shaken away only for the black to remain. I mean, for all the shouting at game devs and storytellers in general that we need more nuanced stories and characters, it appears to me that the moment the more nuanced character appears, they are bound to make some people thoroughly uncomfortable (it's an issue that really grinds my gears; same with misunderstanding what "show, don't tell" means).

 

Because they can't be deemed to be either on the 'good' or 'bad' side and hence make the fight against them easy, at least in terms of moral quandaries. And it bothers some people. I mean, heck, it's a pretty natural response - they even adressed it in the base game through banters like this:

 

Spoiler

Iron Bull: Ahh... These are the types of fight I love.

Varric: Really?

Iron Bull: Every day back in Seheron, I waited for a dagger in the back. Is that civilian secretly working for the Vints? Or is she just scared because she's caught between us and them? Here, the bad guys practically have signs. It's so much easier!

Varric: Well, it is simpler, I'll give you that.

 

Iron Bull: Nice job in that last fight, Solas. You really kicked the crap outta that guy.

Solas: I suppose.

Iron Bull: What, you don't think so? You ripped him a new one. It was great!

Solas: Unless the fight is personal, violence is a means to an end. It isn't appropriate to celebrate.

Iron Bull: I don't know. Gotta wonder about anyone who fights as much as we do and doesn't have some fun with it.

Solas: We have fought living men, with loves and families, and all that they might have been is gone.

Iron Bull: Yeah, but they were assholes!

 

Solas: You fought the Tal-Vashoth for a long time, Iron Bull, did you not?

Iron Bull: Every day.

Iron Bull: I'd kill some of them, they'd kill some of my guys, and then I'd kill them some more.

Solas: No man can kill so many people without breaking inside. To survive... those you fight must become monsters.

Iron Bull: The ones that kill innocent people, yeah. The rest... I don't know.

Solas: The mind does marvelous things to protect itself.

[midnight tea]

I must say...this game looks way more beautiful on my computer than it did on my xbox 360. So many more details.  My Lavellan looks so beautiful all modded and stuff..hehe.  How do I take pictures?

 

Do you have a "Print Screen" button? I think you can also set it in keyboard options.

[Kitsune]

Well, let's put it this way - it definitely messes with the Chantry teachings a lot

 

I can already imagine some devout Andrastians who never accepted Inquisitor (esp. of Dalish origin) minds and hearts to unravel... "Aha! So the Herald of Andraste wasn't the Herald of Andraste after all! It was some sort of strange elven magic!"

 

"Oh, you mean the same elven magic that constructed the Veil? You know, the one you say the Maker had created to separate the worlds, only it turns out that it was a powerful elf who actually did that to prevent elves as powerful as gods to undo the world? Oh, and by the way, it turns out that the Fade and magic and spirits aren't unnatural, but the Veiled world is the one that is unnatural."

devout Andrastians: *panic*!!!

 

Honestly, I can imagine that even if some truth about Fen'Harel ad his rebellion reach the public and no matter how the Divine embrace sit or tries to explain it metaphorically (the way Giselle tries to do so, to my eternal annoyance, despite not really having a problem with that particular sister in general), I can already see a lot of people either being in denial about it or try and sweep everything under the rug in order to uphold the status quo.

If not, then... well... I smell a religious war on the horizon.

Too much elfiness (Sera mode on) for me. I personally need more Titans, dwarves and qunari lore x)

[midnight tea]

Too much elfiness (Sera mode on) for me. I personally need more Titans, dwarves and qunari lore x)

 

Judging from Descent and mentions of Titans and dwarves in Trespasser they'll eventually play an important role

[Kitsune]

Judging from Descent and mentions of Titans and dwarves in Trespasser they'll eventually play an important role

I really hope so! Dwarves ftw. 

The qunari is less because my theory is that they're just ancient elves who drank too much of dragon blood that adds to that elfy pile even more x)

[midnight tea]

Anyhoo... did anyone ever wonder how come is it that apparently Solas' main special, 'evanury' power is... turning people to stone?

 

I mean, at this point it almost seems random. The first time I saw it I was like... 'huh? Why this? Of all things he could do why is he giving people the Medusa treatment?'

 

Till this day I keep wondering why his power manifests this way and will it have any significance later, aside from it being a cool gimmick. What's the secret behind this magic?

The only thing I can think of now is that Solas basically evaporates all the spirit... or perhaps living essence out of people and their immediate surroundings (clothes and weapons), leaving only raw stone (or, you know, Stone) behind.

[MoonDrummer]

People act like total babies on tumblr. I don't get it.

 

And in other breaking news, the sky is blue, things fall down and water is wet.

[Shari'El]

By the way..

 

 

https://twitter.com/...211662873165824

[Eliantariel]

Anyhoo... did anyone ever wonder how come is it that apparently Solas' main special, 'evanury' power is... turning people to stone?

 

I mean, at this point it almost seems random. The first time I saw it I was like... 'huh? Why this? Of all things he could do why is he giving people the Medusa treatment?'

 

Till this day I keep wondering why his power manifests this way and will it have any significance later, aside from it being a cool gimmick. What's the secret behind this magic?

The only thing I can think of now is that Solas basically evaporates all the spirit... or perhaps living essence out of people and their immediate surroundings (clothes and weapons), leaving only raw stone (or, you know, Stone) behind.

 

Actually, I don't think he turns them to stone but instead he burns them and what remains is ash but still in the form of those he burned. I first thought it was stone too but I think I saw steam fumes coming from it which implies it is hot. And as Solas is often illustrate as fire mage I think this fits.

[Illyria]

The Kissing Expedition A Summer's Tale
by Varric Tethras

 

Revas Lavellan is a wild mage from green Skyhold. She leads a dangerous life. However, all that changes when Revas books a summer holiday to elven Dales.

 

At first Revas finds Dales very ancient. Then there's the mysterious, charming wolf god, Solas Evanuris, who makes her feel thirsty.

When Solas invites her on a kissing expedition, Revas begins to realise that Solas is a deeply considerate and remarkable man.

 

Revas knows in her heart that Solas is the man for her. However, to secure her happiness, Revas must fend off the patient diplomate, Josephine Montilyet, who wants to get her claws into Solas.

 

Using her fade-touched staves and a mutual love of cheese, Revas sets out to snare Solas once and for all. But will the charming mage return her affections?

 

Praise for The Kissing Expedition

"Sizzling hot. I wish a mysterious, charming mage would fall into my life."

- The Daily Tale

"The dullest summer story ever written. How would fade-touched staves and a mutual love of cheese attract anybody?"

- Enid Kibbler

"I'm going to rush out and book a kissing expedition."

- Hit the Spoof

"I once went to 'elven' Dales on holiday but I didn't find it ancient."

- Zob Gloop

 

http://www.plot-generator.org.uk/

[roselavellan]

 

I think it mostly stems from the fact that some people have problem categorizing Solas - and it drives them crazy.

 

It would be just so easy if all the grays were shaken away only for the black to remain. I mean, for all the shouting at game devs and storytellers in general that we need more nuanced stories and character, it appears to me that the moment the more nuanced character appears, they are bound to make some people thoroughly uncomfortable (it's an issue that really grinds my gears; same with misunderstanding what "show, don't tell" means).

 

Because they can't be deemed either on the 'good' or 'bad' side and hence make the fight against them easy, at least in terms of moral quandaries. And it bothers some people. I mean, heck, it's a pretty natural response - they even adressed it in the base game through banters like this:

 

Spoiler

Iron Bull: Ahh... These are the types of fight I love.

Varric: Really?

Iron Bull: Every day back in Seheron, I waited for a dagger in the back. Is that civilian secretly working for the Vints? Or is she just scared because she's caught between us and them? Here, the bad guys practically have signs. It's so much easier!

Varric: Well, it is simpler, I'll give you that.

 

Iron Bull: Nice job in that last fight, Solas. You really kicked the crap outta that guy.

Solas: I suppose.

Iron Bull: What, you don't think so? You ripped him a new one. It was great!

Solas: Unless the fight is personal, violence is a means to an end. It isn't appropriate to celebrate.

Iron Bull: I don't know. Gotta wonder about anyone who fights as much as we do and doesn't have some fun with it.

Solas: We have fought living men, with loves and families, and all that they might have been is gone.

Iron Bull: Yeah, but they were assholes!

 

Solas: You fought the Tal-Vashoth for a long time, Iron Bull, did you not?

Iron Bull: Every day.

Iron Bull: I'd kill some of them, they'd kill some of my guys, and then I'd kill them some more.

Solas: No man can kill so many people without breaking inside. To survive... those you fight must become monsters.

Iron Bull: The ones that kill innocent people, yeah. The rest... I don't know.

Solas: The mind does marvelous things to protect itself.

 

 

Especially if said nuanced character is 1) Hot; 2) popular with the girls; and 3) Not a Bro  I wonder if the gaming world has ever seen such frothing-at-the-mouth rage at a character before.

 

Btw, that exchange with IB and Varric is hilarious, I hadn't heard that one before.

[Gwyvian]

Good points have been made one all sides of this discussion. I too can see why they didn't include the scene. I get it, but I don't like it. I would have liked the option to make the physical intimacy non-head-canon because, like you said, I just want more Solas period. I would have appreciated repeatable kissy kissy scene too. My husband keeps triggering his kissy kissy scene with Cassandra when I'm in the room just to rub it in my face! BP

 

The "you can head-canon whatever you want" vague dialogue stuff made the whole situation muddled. I never even considered that Solas and Lavellan could have done the deed until weird things starting coming out of the characters' mouths that seemed totally unrelated to the dialogue wheel text I'd selected. I personally don't know if my own Lavellan made it with Elfy McSchmexy Pants or not. I'll probably figure that out in the next game. Maybe? I'm so confused.

 

Since we are talking about dubious consent and people feeling like their characters were taken advantage of...why do you all suppose BioWare went ahead with the Blackwall sex scene? I've never played through that romance, but I watched gamermd83 do it. How is that not as bad/rapey? The dude gets what he wants from you, while you are still in the dark about his past, then abandons you in the morning. Is it just that Blackwall isn't the Dalish devil and he only killed a few innocent people? Solas is at least honest about his name.

 

Yes! I'm so glad someone agrees. (And yes, even a repeatable kissy-kissy scene would have been something at least.)

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. TBH, if I had decided to romance Blackwall for some reason the first time around, I would really have felt dirtied by having a physical relationship with him. I think the only distinction they're making here is ancient elf/sort of god = more traumatizing than 'just a man' who turns out to be a murderer who killed an entire family (including children). Yeah, not seeing how that was any better, seeing as Solas was leading a bloody revolution for a just cause and his intention hadn't been to kill so many people through his actions, they were just 'collateral damage' - which says something about his character, yes, but that's not the same as murdering for hire just to further some underhanded political gain that he didn't even believe in, and putting aside the fact that his actions were wrong in and of themselves, he chose to slaughter the entire family just to save his skin, rather than solve his problem another way. I won't even mention the dog story, yikes. Yes, he's repentant. Great. So is Solas.

 

Solas being "the Dalish devil" is a dramatic analogy, but I've never really felt such a great association between our devil and him. I see much more of an association between Corypheus or pretty much any of the more powerful demons you come across, though technically I can see where that comes from. Yet, we know that Dalish history is more than a little incomplete and skewed - we know that we misunderstood Fen'Harel entirely, and all Trespasser proved was that OK, he was much better than we thought, and yes, he also kind of deserves the bad rap for some of his more dramatic choices - but ultimately he is like a lot of other revolutionaries who are willing to get their hands dirty: it can go askew very, very quickly and the price you pay may suddenly be more than what the outcome is worth. How you judge the motivating intentions is subjective from that point onward.

I'd still say it's just not the same (but then, considering my personal views I admit that I am heavily biased).

[midnight tea]

Actually, I don't think he turns them to stone but instead he burns them and what remains is ash but still in the form of those he burned. I first thought it was stone too but I think I saw steam fumes coming from it which implies it is hot. And as Solas is often illustrate as fire mage I think this fits.

 

Ash would just disintegrate quickly - it wouldn't just stay in one place, including the finest details that would just fly or fall away. Besides - if I remember correctly, either Inquisitor or one of companion mentions in the first area (Fen'Harel's Sanctuary) in Trespasser that someone has turned some of the qunari to stone.

 

Also - we see him turn Viddasala and there's a distinct cracking sound, as if she solidified into rock. The fumes may as well be dust or the evaporated essence/spirit I mentioned above - or just plain magic. We do see black'ish vapor surrounding Solas when he steals the power from Mythal and whatever he did to her, he certainly didn't burn her.

[Gwyvian]

I've been going through my old screenshots folder and I've stumbled upon this:
 

Spoiler

So after Trespasser, what second meaning can we discern in this? Is he saying the world for him changed because he saw her as a real person at that moment? But why would he? It was just her closing the rift, after all. If you ask him about it (option 1), he will say it's because you walked physically in the Fade and lived. Still doesn't make much sense...

 

In one of my novels I have a few characters who are in a kind of similar situation (living for thousands of years) and I've done a lot of theorizing as a result of how such an individual might see the world, how their viewpoint gradually shifts from being just another 'oblivious' person to someone who witnesses the world on a much grander scale. The truth of the matter is that if you want to avoid going insane, there has to be an adaptation. Solas is a little different, especially since he was sleeping for most of the time that passed, but there's a definite parallel if you consider what he witnesses after he awakens: the very way you live your life is inherently bound to the passage of time, to the amount that is reasonably allotted you. So I think that to him, most people cannot be real, it's like watching an insect with a one day lifespan: it's such a ridiculously short time that you literally don't have time to build a relationship, etc. with that creature. It's not exactly the same, of course, but I believe that - like my characters - Solas has just 'reentered time' in a way, he is swept up in the chaotic events of the present and he directly touches the urgency of the world. The question is, do the people in it deserve his attention? I think that he does not always necessarily realize how very much can be crammed into a few short years, so perhaps it caught him off guard a little (which is why he could be so easily swept up in the romance despite having specific, devastating intentions regarding the world).

 

I think there is something strange going on with our Inquisitor that we do not fully realize just yet. I think that Solas sees something that - by design, his design - should be impossible is possible for the Inquisitor, such as drawing Fade essence for instance, controlling it. The Veil is designed to block that ability, so the fact that the Inquisitor can reach across the Veil and manipulate it could be like seeing the single light in an otherwise pitch black ocean of existence: that would be pretty incredible to someone who expected to see nothing but the 'Dark Ages' of Thedas full of stupid primitives. (Javik. ) It would also be a balm to his guilt: he caused the downfall of the elvhen, and to see one person from this modern, backwards age touch upon something he robbed the world of, it's like seeing nature reestablish its hold on a field of utter destruction wrought by humans. It's proof that the world can and would right itself in a small way, that there is hope to fix his colossal mess.

 

At least... that's my takeaway.

[Eivuwan]

Anyhoo... did anyone ever wonder how come is it that apparently Solas' main special, 'evanury' power is... turning people to stone?

 

I mean, at this point it almost seems random. The first time I saw it I was like... 'huh? Why this? Of all things he could do why is he giving people the Medusa treatment?'

 

Till this day I keep wondering why his power manifests this way and will it have any significance later, aside from it being a cool gimmick. What's the secret behind this magic?

The only thing I can think of now is that Solas basically evaporates all the spirit... or perhaps living essence out of people and their immediate surroundings (clothes and weapons), leaving only raw stone (or, you know, Stone) behind.

 

My theory is that Mythal has the Titan's power after absorbing its heart. Since Solas absorbed Mythal, he gained that power as well. The power of stone.... woooooo

[Gwyvian]

Anyhoo... did anyone ever wonder how come is it that apparently Solas' main special, 'evanury' power is... turning people to stone?

 

I mean, at this point it almost seems random. The first time I saw it I was like... 'huh? Why this? Of all things he could do why is he giving people the Medusa treatment?'

 

Till this day I keep wondering why his power manifests this way and will it have any significance later, aside from it being a cool gimmick. What's the secret behind this magic?

The only thing I can think of now is that Solas basically evaporates all the spirit... or perhaps living essence out of people and their immediate surroundings (clothes and weapons), leaving only raw stone (or, you know, Stone) behind.

 

*gasp* Maybe... all this additional focus on dwarven lore and Solas' numerous comments to the children of the stone means something special? Maybe there is more to the dwarven/elven connection here...

[midnight tea]

My theory is that Mythal has the Titan's power after absorbing its heart. Since Solas absorbed Mythal, he gained that power as well. The power of stone.... woooooo

 

 

 

Inspired by LG, I assume?

Thing is, as much as there's some obvious connection to Titan's power, I don't think their hearts were absorbed or something. Some Titans were likely hunted and killed, but a lot of them weren't slain - they were either imprisoned or subdued and likely put in some sort of forced slumber (probably by creating a huge, elaborate sigil above them - like the one that was mentioned in codexes received unlocking gates of Segrummar in Descent) in order to be harvested.

 

Just think about it - lyrium is alive; it's literally Titan's blood. The Titan has to be alive in order to produce lyrium/share its blood and likely needs a heart to pump it all up. So it seems both the Titan in Descent as well as Titan in Trespasser (and anywhere there are lyrium mines or active lyrium veins) are alive, with hearts intact, even if they're subdued.

 

I'd also like to note that Inquisitor/the rune on the Titan mural mention that something aside from lyrium was harvested from the Titan - and according to description it was something akin to sphere on fire - while the mural itself shows that whatever it is that appears to be at the core of the Titan and shots into heavens is golden in hue... But the Titan's heart in descent is blue, not gold, doesn't look like a sphere and is certainly not on fire.

[Eivuwan]

Inspired by LG, I assume?

Thing is, as much as there's some obvious connection to Titan's power, I don't think their hearts were absorbed or something. Some Titans were likely hunted and killed, but a lot of them weren't slain - they were either imprisoned or subdued and likely put in some sort of forced slumber (probably by creating a huge, elaborate sigil above them - like the one that was mentioned in codexes received unlocking gates of Segrummar in Descent) in order to be harvested.

 

Just think about it - lyrium is alive; it's literally Titan's blood. The Titan has to be alive in order to produce lyrium/share its blood and likely needs a heart to pump it all up. So it seems both the Titan in Descent as well as Titan in Trespasser (and anywhere there are lyrium mines or active lyrium veins) are alive, with hearts intact, even if they're subdued.

 

I'd also like to note that Inquisitor/the rune on the Titan mural mention that something aside from lyrium was harvested from the Titan - and according to description it was something akin to sphere on fire - while the mural itself shows that whatever it is that appears to be at the core of the Titan and shots into heavens is golden in hue... But the Titan's heart in descent is blue, not gold, doesn't look like a sphere and is certainly not on fire.

 

I kind of thought they just went with a power that would look super cool and that goes well with Solas' current powers and personality. He is a rift mage and uses stonefist.

[midnight tea]

I kind of thought they just went with a power that would look super cool and that goes well with Solas' current powers and personality. He is a rift mage and uses stonefist.

 

Stonefist =/= turning people to stone. Also, my mage Lavellan is also a rift-mage and she doesn't turn people to stone Plus, the magic he uses in Trespasser is definitely not rift magic.

[Eivuwan]

Stonefist =/= turning people to stone. Also, my mage Lavellan is also a rift-mage and she doesn't turn people to stone Plus, the magic he uses in Trespasser is definitely not rift magic.

 

It's next level stuff that our plebeian minds cannot understand.

[NightSymphony]

A couple screen shots... I need to fix her chin, it's too short.  :-P

 

Atisha Lavellan

http://wyntersosltic...erSosltice&qo=1

 

And So It Begins...

http://wyntersosltic...erSosltice&qo=0

[Eivuwan]

Stone abilities make sense for Solas because his will is unyielding like stone.