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[midnight tea]

hehe...it's like I'm playing the game for the first time. I love taking screenshots...lol.

 

 

[Cee]

hehe...it's like I'm playing the game for the first time. I love taking screenshots...lol.

 

I have so many. So many. I need to pull them into a joined folder and back up into Dropbox.
 

[FernRain]

I keep waking up like 3 hours earlier than usual because of the heat, blaugh.
 
-
 
Lore theory time:
 
While in the Frostback Basin I found giant corpses buried with Razikale carvings:
 

 
And one at a suspected temple/shrine/place of Razikale:
 

 
I also found this there which sounds suspiciously like what we found in Dirthamen's temple (the secrets are madness in our ears):

 

 

So did Razikale have giant people worshiping her? Because those skeletons are bigger than Avvar, and not big enough to be like the giants we see in the wild.

[Ellawynn]

 

I know.. that's the point I tried to make in one of those "Why hate Solas" thread.

We really don't know much. He only speaks in a way that you cannot understand. It all seems like a metaphor.. cause he says he "destroyed the Elves world". But it's not like they died.. they just became mortals and lost connection to the Fade. So when he says he needs to "destroy this world".. it might be similar, which does not include genocide. And the Inquisitor is just dumb asking silly questions instead of asking the most important one: "How is this going to be?". Nooo, she/he freaks out and goes like "What do you mean destroy the world? We arent' people to you?" etc etc. Wow, chill.. she just jumped to the worst conclusion 

And also I do not think Solas is tricking the Elves.. A codex you find in Trespasser says that the Dread Wolf only leads those who follow willingly..
So I'm quite sure he told them the truth and they agree with this whole thing. And even in case it requires their death, they may still agree and think that the sacrifice is worth it to bring a better future. Which tbh I would agree with as well.

If for instance there was a way to "reset" our humanity to before wars, racism, hate, phobias etc etc started to appear, and create a future world where everyone lives in harmony.. well sometimes I think I would be willing to do that..no matter the cost..
Am I that crazy?   (Please don't hate me) 

 

To be perfectly frank, on the lying to his followers situation, I absolutely would not be surprised if that turned out to be the case. I mean, he had no problem lying to the Inquisition - but that's the thing, right? As others have pointed out, he did very little actual lying to the Inquisition, and he was sincere in his pursuit of it's goals - he wanted to seal the Breach, he wanted to stop Corypheus, he wanted to help the refugees. He just also, uh... wanted to get his hands on an ancient elven artifact so he could remake the world. But the point is - if Solas is lying to some of his followers, I imagine he intends to deliver whatever he's promising them. Not only because it fits the behavior he showed in Inquisition, but because it's just easier to keep them happy that way. If he were, say, promising freedom to the elven slaves of Tevinter, his followers would probably catch on pretty quickly if he did nothing to further that cause and instead had them mess around with artifacts in the middle of nowhere. While simply lying to them about what their actions achieve could work, it'd be a difficult lie to keep up across the entire organization, and easy to tear down by anyone who doesn't just blindly swallow everything he says. 

 

So if that is the case, and he is lying, then I imagine he entirely intends to follow through on what he's promised them - he just intends to give them something extra, too. Something like fiery, world-restructuring apocalypse. 

 

As for the ambiguity of Solas plans - I don't entirely buy the theory that he was speaking in metaphor (I do buy the theory that his plan won't literally wipe out all life in Thedas, but that the chaos it causes will result in a lot of death and destruction, however.) but I've pointed out before that we really know very, very little of what Solas actually intends to do. Which is why everyone making moral judgments of it, or even just decrying it as a bad plan, peeve me so much because we really don't know. We have no solid information - we don't even really know why he has to do this, because he refuses to tell us. That feels like key information to me - not only to figure out his plan, but to figure out Solas himself. While we can do some decent speculation on his motives, even those are rather unclear. Is he nostalgic? Guilty? Duty-bound? 

 

I dunno. It just seems like so many people are so quick to declare Solas' plans and motivations when we seem to be missing some extremely important information. It'll be interesting to see where DA4 takes it - I just hope they don't squander the chance they've got here because, man, can you imagine Solas as an out-and-out antagonist? Solas, the man who approves so much of helping the refugees, who hates unnecessary suffering, who wants to give the people of this world some comfort? Solas, the man who wants to remake the world, who's willing to lie and murder to achieve that goal? He could be so paradoxical as a villain. Think on how he wanted to help the people in the Hinterlands, and think about how he wants to comfort people now, think of all the manpower and resources he has. What if a good chunk of our interaction with him wasn't on a battlefield, but because his agents are giving us aid against a third party, or giving shelter to runaway slaves and apostates, or protecting some defenseless innocents? How contradictory would that be to the simplistic image of some cackling cartoon villain? How complicated it would be, when you actually have to face his forces head-on to hamper their plans to tear down the Veil?  It could provide such an interesting conflict while staying true to Solas' character - like, yeah he's an evil mastermind trying to bring about the end of life as we know it but, damn, he's just so nice about it.

[Cee]

Mid-size giants? Maybe they were lady giants and just short in comparison. I'm also waiting for the lizard people to turn up.

[fangs4fun]

I know.. that's the point I tried to make in one of those "Why hate Solas" thread.

We really don't know much. He only speaks in a way that you cannot understand. It all seems like a metaphor.. cause he says he "destroyed the Elves world". But it's not like they died.. they just became mortals and lost connection to the Fade. So when he says he needs to "destroy this world".. it might be similar, which does not include genocide. And the Inquisitor is just dumb asking silly questions instead of asking the most important one: "How is this going to be?". Nooo, she/he freaks out and goes like "What do you mean destroy the world? We arent' people to you?" etc etc. Wow, chill.. she just jumped to the worst conclusion

And also I do not think Solas is tricking the Elves.. A codex you find in Trespasser says that the Dread Wolf only leads those who follow willingly..
So I'm quite sure he told them the truth and they agree with this whole thing. And even in case it requires their death, they may still agree and think that the sacrifice is worth it to bring a better future. Which tbh I would agree with as well.

If for instance there was a way to "reset" our humanity to before wars, racism, hate, phobias etc etc started to appear, and create a future world where everyone lives in harmony.. well sometimes I think I would be willing to do that..no matter the cost..
Am I that crazy? (Please don't hate me)

 

If you're crazy, then so am I.  I agree with everything here.

[fangs4fun]

Guys... you don't need to try and justify Solas' plan in order to be a fan. Many people love Loghain despite what he did.

Solas says it plainly that this world will be destroyed. That's why this isn't an easy decision for him.

He is a morally grey character and that's fine. You don't have to go "No, no, no, he would never do anything wrong! Ever!"

 

Oh, I am not justifying his plans. At all.  I am fully aware of what the cost may be.  And I am 100% behind that.  Lots of people are gonna die.  That's bad.  People are gonna hate him.  I accept that.  As long as I get the result I want with regards to elven oppression, Solas will have my support. 

 

I am not afraid or embarrassed to shout out that I am a huge fan of DA's next big bad.  Just like some people are huge fans of the Joker.  

[FernRain]

@Cee:

 

I hope it wasn't a reference to moon men..

 

Wait. Sentinel's are like 8 foot tall, maybe Razikale had some in her service.

 

To quote from a few months ago:

 

EDIT: Speaking of Solas' height, if he's 6 feet tall, then how tall are these Sentinels then? xD

 

Source: http://afterinquisit...think-about-how

 

[fangs4fun]

Peoples....there's been something nagging at me a while...your opinions please?

 

The elven "gods" got full of themselves and it became the powerful vs the oppressed slaves.

 

The Imperium got full of themselves and it became the Magisters vs the oppressed slaves.

 

The current Templars got full of themselves and the mages had enough of being oppressed so it was the Templars vs the mages.

 

Is history repeating itself?  Will Solas realize that?  If he starts the world over, does he realize the cycle will likely just start again?  

 

Maybe he does realise but not doing anything is worse.  IMO of course.  Do you really see Solas not doing anything when he sees that there is something he thinks is wrong?

 

Something needs to change in Thedas so a new cycle can begin.  How long has it been since the elven and mage oppression started?  More than a thousand years at least.

[Garnet]

hehe...it's like I'm playing the game for the first time. I love taking screenshots...lol.

I'm the same way. I got the PC version after the PS4 ate my saves and then the screenshot addiction took over.

I have 30+ folders from a single playthrough... (I have a problem.) 

And your Lavellan is so adorable! 

[midnight tea]

 

 

 

To be perfectly frank, on the lying to his followers situation, I absolutely would not be surprised if that turned out to be the case. I mean, he had no problem lying to the Inquisition - but that's the thing, right? As others have pointed out, he did very little actual lying to the Inquisition, and he was sincere in his pursuit of it's goals - he wanted to seal the Breach, he wanted to stop Corypheus, he wanted to help the refugees. He just also, uh... wanted to get his hands on an ancient elven artifact so he could remake the world. But the point is - if Solas is lying to some of his followers, I imagine he intends to deliver whatever he's promising them. Not only because it fits the behavior he showed in Inquisition, but because it's just easier to keep them happy that way. If he were, say, promising freedom to the elven slaves of Tevinter, his followers would probably catch on pretty quickly if he did nothing to further that cause and instead had them mess around with artifacts in the middle of nowhere. While simply lying to them about what their actions achieve could work, it'd be a difficult lie to keep up across the entire organization, and easy to tear down by anyone who doesn't just blindly swallow everything he says. 

 

So if that is the case, and he is lying, then I imagine he entirely intends to follow through on what he's promised them - he just intends to give them something extra, too. Something like fiery, world-restructuring apocalypse. 

 

As for the ambiguity of Solas plans - I don't entirely buy the theory that he was speaking in metaphor (I do buy the theory that his plan won't literally wipe out all life in Thedas, but that the chaos it causes will result in a lot of death and destruction, however.) but I've pointed out before that we really know very, very little of what Solas actually intends to do. Which is why everyone making moral judgments of it, or even just decrying it as a bad plan, peeve me so much because we really don't know. We have no solid information - we don't even really know why he has to do this, because he refuses to tell us. That feels like key information to me - not only to figure out his plan, but to figure out Solas himself. While we can do some decent speculation on his motives, even those are rather unclear. Is he nostalgic? Guilty? Duty-bound? 

 

I dunno. It just seems like so many people are so quick to declare Solas' plans and motivations when we seem to be missing some extremely important information. It'll be interesting to see where DA4 takes it - I just hope they don't squander the chance they've got here because, man, can you imagine Solas as an out-and-out antagonist? Solas, the man who approves so much of helping the refugees, who hates unnecessary suffering, who wants to give the people of this world some comfort? Solas, the man who wants to remake the world, who's willing to lie and murder to achieve that goal? He could be so paradoxical as a villain. Think on how he wanted to help the people in the Hinterlands, and think about how he wants to comfort people now, think of all the manpower and resources he has. What if a good chunk of our interaction with him wasn't on a battlefield, but because his agents are giving us aid against a third party, or giving shelter to runaway slaves and apostates, or protecting some defenseless innocents? How contradictory would that be to the simplistic image of some cackling cartoon villain? How complicated it would be, when you actually have to face his forces head-on to hamper their plans to tear down the Veil?  It could provide such an interesting conflict while staying true to Solas' character - like, yeah he's an evil mastermind trying to bring about the end of life as we know it but, damn, he's just so nice about it.

 

 

IMO many of his actions in DA4 would likely be constructed in a way that would make them pretty ambiguous, OR they may turn out to be not what we may initially think - but mostly because quite few people have decided already that he's close enough to cackling villain, plus there would likely be enough new people to the franchise who'd know very little of what transpired in DAI, so their perception of Solas will be "villain", and would likely deem most his actions as villainous, even if the truth is that many things he does are not what they seem. Perhaps only those who are thorough or open-minded enough may get to the bottom of things and get the clearer picture - as for the rest... well, quite a few players, I think, may be thrown if things become a little bit too complicated on a moral field - we've already seen quite a few people denouncing Solas' character and all his good deeds or traits as a ruse, because it's just easy to not think about him as someone who may - at least in some sense - be right and his plan is actually pretty reasonable or justified, given the alternatives.

 

... unless we go a different route and the main protagonist of DA4 would have to choose between Fen'Harel and Inquisitor (with a 3rd option being finding a way to make them work together or smth?). That way they may likely paint the actions of both parties as pretty ambiguous.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Rendon Howe was a villain. Loghain and Solas are simply antagonists.

Solas has the potential to go full-blown terrifying villain mode in DA4, but I suspect he'll only be like that if Assquisitor went out of their way to tick him off.

Also, Happy Thanksgiving!

[Cee]

Maybe he does realise but not doing anything is worse.  IMO of course.  Do you really see Solas not doing anything when he sees that there is something he thinks is wrong?

 

Something needs to change in Thedas so a new cycle can begin.  How long has it been since the elven and mage oppression started?  More than a thousand years at least.

 

Yes, but there are a lot of innocent people whose lives may be affected or ended as a result of potential actions.

[FernRain]

Oh my gosh Cee, I was watching this and thought of you (goats->sheep!?):

 

 

He made it onto the news a few years ago. He's really aggressive but it's rather funny .

 

The NZ accent is on display there too if anyone's ever wondered what we sound like .

[Cee]

Oh my gosh Cee, I was watching this and thought of you (goats->sheep!?):

 

 

He made it onto the news a few years ago. He's really aggressive but it's rather funny .

 

The NZ accent is on display there too if anyone's ever wondered what we sound like .

 

The shots of him running down the road.

[FernRain]

The shots of him running down the road.

 

He even takes on cars. I think all the headbutting caused him to lose a few brain cells .

[NightSymphony]

I'm the same way. I got the PC version after the PS4 ate my saves and then the screenshot addiction took over.

I have 30+ folders from a single playthrough... (I have a problem.) 

And your Lavellan is so adorable! 

 

lol..thank you.

[FernRain]

Finding new things as a lore-nerd is such a good feeling:

 

 

I found this in a hollowed out tree stump which led to a cave. More Razikale references. And why are there people in the walls .

 

Also, took this photo of Dorian and Blackwall :

 

Modifié par FernRain, 27 novembre 2015 - 01:21 .

[FernRain]

Sorry for the spam!

 

How..

 

[Raeona]

Mid-size giants? Maybe they were lady giants and just short in comparison. I'm also waiting for the lizard people to turn up.

The Lizard people have been here the whole time! They're everywhere, watching, waiting, scheming! Open your eyes sheeple!

 

Finding new things as a lore-nerd is such a good feeling:

Spoiler

I found this in a hollowed out tree stump which led to a cave. More Razikale references. And why are there people in the walls .

 

 

There's another one in Emprise du Lion, with frozen people stuck in the ice ceiling and a note 'don't touch my pyramid.' no idea what it means, but you better believe I touched the pyramid. 

[Cee]

Sorry for the spam!

 

How..

 

 

Guys, please teach me to teleport. I would like to visit cool places.

[FernRain]

There's another one in Emprise du Lion, with frozen people stuck in the ice ceiling and a note 'don't touch my pyramid.' no idea what it means, but you better believe I touched the pyramid. 

 

Oh yeah, isn't that a Mass Effect reference? I did a little googling about it a while ago. I hope we get more things like that in Tevinter.

[Ghost Gal]

Yes, but there are a lot of innocent people whose lives may be affected or ended as a result of potential actions.

To be fair to Solas, he probably feels a lot of innocent lives will be affected or ended if he does nothing. Once immortal elves will all die no matter what, hate crimes against elves are common, purges against alienages are common, Chevaliers and Templars hunt the Dalish for sport, most elves feel displaced and downsized by humans, etc.

He probably feels that if suffering and death will happen no matter what, might as well do something that helps and restores the elven people.

[Cee]

To be fair to Solas, he probably feels a lot of innocent lives will be affected or ended if he does nothing. Once immortal elves will all die no matter what, hate crimes against elves are common, purges against alienages are common, Chevaliers and Templars hunt the Dalish for sport, most elves feel displaced and downsized by humans, etc.

He probably feels that if suffering and death will happen no matter what, might as well do something that helps and restores the elven people.

 

 

No, of course. And he knows that his plan might cost many lives, but the post I was responding to took the view of the elves the elves the elves when many more may well be affected. Solas cares about 'his people', but there's a lot of good in people all over, even if some do live in and create conflict. Humans may be numerous, but there are also a lot of them suffering too. etc.

[Ellawynn]

IMO many of his actions in DA4 would likely be constructed in a way that would make them pretty ambiguous, OR they may turn out to be not what we may initially think - but mostly because quite few people have decided already that he's close enough to cackling villain, plus there would likely be enough new people to the franchise who'd know very little of what transpired in DAI, so their perception of Solas will be "villain", and would likely deem most his actions as villainous, even if the truth is that many things he does are not what they seem. Perhaps only those who are thorough or open-minded enough may get to the bottom of things and get the clearer picture - as for the rest... well, quite a few players, I think, may be thrown if things become a little bit too complicated on a moral field - we've already seen quite a few people denouncing Solas' character and all his good deeds or traits as a ruse, because it's just easiest to not thing about him as someone who may - at least in some sense - be right and his plan is actually pretty reasonable or justified, given the alternatives.

 

... unless we go a different route and the main protagonist of DA4 would have to choose between Fen'Harel and Inquisitor (with a 3rd option being finding a way to make them work together or smth?). That way they may likely paint the actions of both parties as pretty ambiguous.

 

Ugh, I'll be so disappointed if Bioware bends to those who just want it to be simple good vs. evil. That's such a boring set-up. :|  Although, given how many times I've seen the likes of Loghain and Meredith forced into that dichotomy, trying to overcome it might be a pointless effort. Still though, the whole point to Dragon Age is that it was supposed to be a more morally ambiguous alternative to Mass Effect (Hence the lack of a universal morality system) Hopefully this trend is carried forward...

 

As for having to choose between Fen'Harel or the Inquisition - oh my God, I am so on board with that. Especially since I head-canon that, between Solas' betrayal and the Council's hostility, Trespasser turned my Lavellan into a somewhat ruthless paranoiac. I'd love it if Trespasser became an official start of darkness for the Inquisition.

 

...But I suspect I might be in the minority on that. 

 

I mean, just look at the reaction to Hawke. If BioWare went anywhere near a player character (Even a former one) with the words "morally ambiguous," I can only imagine how upset it'd make people who insist on their Inquisitor being a pure-hearted hero type. Maybe you could make their ambiguity be an unintended side-effect of certain actions - but then again, look at Hawke. Look at how many people hate them for their perceived powerlessness and incompetence. Not to say all or even most people would be upset, but... I've noticed some players seem to dislike the implication that their PC can actually have flaws.