153434 réponses à ce sujet

[CapricornSun]

Well...I was sharing screenshots, but my cat decided to step on my keyboard and erase everything. *sighs*  I don't want to type all that out again.  If anyone is interested, here is my screenshot gallery.

 

http://wyntersosltic...623/Screenshots

 

Your Atisha is adorable! I'm so glad that you're finally able to take screenshots of her! 

 

Speaking of which, my brother-in-law told me that his sister in the US managed to get me a physical copy of DAI Game of the Year Edition for the PS4 and soon I'll be able to play it when she arrives here in about 2 weeks! I can't wait! (FINALLY! I'll be able to play The Descent and Trespasser and take proper screenshots of Tala. )

[Qun00]

To be fair to Solas, he probably feels a lot of innocent lives will be affected or ended if he does nothing. Once immortal elves will all die no matter what, hate crimes against elves are common, purges against alienages are common, Chevaliers and Templars hunt the Dalish for sport, most elves feel displaced and downsized by humans, etc.
He probably feels that if suffering and death will happen no matter what, might as well do something that helps and restores the elven people.

Modern elves aren't part of his plan, nor is it motivated by a desire to help people born in this age.

[Raeona]

Oh yeah, isn't that a Mass Effect reference? I did a little googling about it a while ago. I hope we get more things like that in Tevinter.

 

I'm not sure, I assumed it to be a reference to the pyramid trap from KOTOR, way back in the day. Though that itself was a reference to Gollum's game of riddles from the hobbit. References within references within references! 

[Raeona]

Ugh, I'll be so disappointed if Bioware bends to those who just want it to be simple good vs. evil. That's such a boring set-up. :|  Although, given how many times I've seen the likes of Loghain and Meredith forced into that dichotomy, trying to overcome it might be a pointless effort. Still though, the whole point to Dragon Age is that it was supposed to be a more morally ambiguous alternative to Mass Effect (Hence the lack of a universal morality system) Hopefully this trend is carried forward...

 

As for having to choose between Fen'Harel or the Inquisition - oh my God, I am so on board with that. Especially since I head-canon that, between Solas' betrayal and the Council's hostility, Trespasser turned my Lavellan into a somewhat ruthless paranoiac. I'd love it if Trespasser became an official start of darkness for the Inquisition.

 

...But I suspect I might be in the minority on that. 

 

I mean, just look at the reaction to Hawke. If BioWare went anywhere near a player character (Even a former one) with the words "morally ambiguous," I can only imagine how upset it'd make people who insist on their Inquisitor being a pure-hearted hero type. Maybe you could make their ambiguity be an unintended side-effect of certain actions - but then again, look at Hawke. Look at how many people hate them for their perceived powerlessness and incompetence. Not to say all or even most people would be upset, but... I've noticed some players seem to dislike the implication that their PC can actually have flaws. 

 

Which is heartbreaking. I loved Hawke exactly because s/he was such a morally ambiguous failure of a hero. To turn either the Inquisitor or Solas into straight forward entirely good or entirely bad characters would be a travesty.

 

But you're right. A lot of people freak out when the straight forward guidelines of 'good guy' and 'bad guy' are removed and we're left simply with 'guys'. The number of people who insist Loghain was unashamedly evil with no redeeming features is impressive. 

[Ghost Gal]

No, of course. And he knows that his plan might cost many lives, but the post I was responding to took the view of the elves the elves the elves when many more may well be affected. Solas cares about 'his people', but there's a lot of good in people all over, even if some do live in and create conflict. Humans may be numerous, but there are also a lot of them suffering too. etc.

I know, which is why I pointed out how humans make elves suffer in this world. Most humans don't take the elves' suffering into consideration when they make decisions for most things, so why should Solas sacrifice the well-being of his people for the people who take advantage of, oppress, and don't care about the remnants of his people.

Funny how everyone says Solas and the elves shouldn't do something that'll benefit them because it might negatively affect humans, but even since the Veil went up humans have consistently not hesitated to do right by themselves at the expense of elves (picked through the collapsed Elvhenan, enslaved the whole elven race, took back the Dales, led purges against the alienage, etc), and few if any hold them morally responsible for that. (The old "not all humans..." excuse. Even though "Yes, ALL elves" suffer from it.)

As Solas himself notes in-game, "Wouldn't you [commit atrocities]? To save your own people?" And considering how many players expect Solas and the elves sacrifice their own well-being for humans even though humans never hesitated to hurt elves to advance their own interests (which the fanbase always finds excuses for) he's proven right.

[Cee]

I know, which is why I pointed out how humans make elves suffer in this world. Most humans don't take the elves' suffering into consideration when they make decisions for most things, so why should Solas sacrifice the well-being of his people for the people who take advantage of, oppress, and don't care about the remnants of his people.

 

But who are his people? He says multiple different things. However, I'm simply saying that sometimes civilizations die out for one reason or another. It is not the fault of those who live in the modern age that it happened. So if we unfroze an ancient Greek and he suddenly wanted to possibly destroy everything so some possible other ancient Greeks could come back....everyone else who might suffer is....collateral damage?

 

Sometimes civilizations peak and die out. Even Solas admits there were atrocities, wars, and slavery being practiced by both ancient elves and Evanuris. The cycle could very well repeat itself. Then what?

 

At what point do you stop clinging and move on? Especially if there are so many others who would suffer.

[NightSymphony]

Your Atisha is adorable! I'm so glad that you're finally able to take screenshots of her! 

 

Speaking of which, my brother-in-law told me that his sister in the US managed to get me a physical copy of DAI Game of the Year Edition for the PS4 and soon I'll be able to play it when she arrives here in about 2 weeks! I can't wait! (FINALLY! I'll be able to play The Descent and Trespasser and take proper screenshots of Tala. )

hehehe..thank you!

 

YAY!!  I can't wait to see all the adorable screenshots of Tala.

[Ghost Gal]

Modern elves aren't part of his plan, nor is it motivated by a desire to help people born in this age.

If the Veil is removed, the elves' immortality, magic, conscious connection to the Fade, magic-fueled wonders (like the Shattered Library), and very world would be restored. Solas says so in the game, and he lists that as the basis of his motivation.

They will no longer be a physically weak and outnumbered race surrounded by stronger and more numerous and more culturally grounded races (humans and Qunari) who just want to oppress and assimilate them into their own culture (Andrastian city elves for humans, mindless followers of the Qun for Qunari).

[Cee]

If the Veil is removed, the elves' immortality, magic, conscious connection to the Fade, magic-fueled wonders (like the Shattered Library), and very world would be restored. Solas says so in the game, and he lists that as the basis of his motivation.

They will no longer be a physically weak and outnumbered race surrounded by stronger and more numerous and more culturally grounded races (humans and Qunari) who just want to oppress and assimilate them into their own culture (Andrastian city elves for humans, mindless followers of the Qun for Qunari).

 

Some Andrastian city elves, like Sera, express their issues with elven culture (though not race), and would not necessarily want any of this.

 

Plus, modern elves seem to be likely to be wiped out in this process. Solas doesn't consider modern elves his people. He tells a Lavellan that he's saving you "at least for now" and tells you to basically have a good life....with the implied context that it will likely be over when he does...whatever.

[CapricornSun]

Art break.

 

Wheel of Fortune. Beautiful Solavellan tarot card.

Spoiler

Source: http://nipuni.tumblr...heel-of-fortune

 

 

Another gorgeous Solavellan tarot card. Eight of Swords.

Spoiler

Source: http://pyrrhy.tumblr...ork-on-this-any

 

Close up:

 

 

Wolf Father. (Solas and Lavellan) Companion piece to the next art.

Spoiler

Source: http://jbr-art.tumbl...companion-piece

 

 

Wolf Mother and the Prodigal Son. (Lavellan and her son) Companion piece to the previous one.

Spoiler

Source: http://jbr-art.tumbl...companion-piece

 

 

Solas and Lavellan dancing at Halamshiral.

Spoiler

Source: http://faustianart.t...-youll-do-youll

 

 

Right in the vhenan.

Spoiler

Source: http://right-in-the-...t-in-the-vhenan

 

 

"That’s the 3rd time you’ve asked this of me, Inquisitor!" Some more cute Solas for the color palette meme.

Spoiler

Source: http://theresa-draws...in-palette-13-3

 

 

Male Lavellan quickly goes to his quarters after Dorian tells him that there's something there that might interest him. The expressions of Solas' face...

Spoiler

Source: http://lolipoptiger....-their-quarters

 

 

 

Also, if anyone's interested, salesart (the artist who does all those gorgeous modern AU Solas artworks) now has a RedBubble Store where you could buy prints of their artworks!

Spoiler

Source: http://salesart.tumb...ubble-shop-open

 

[Qun00]

If the Veil is removed, the elves' immortality, magic, conscious connection to the Fade, magic-fueled wonders (like the Shattered Library), and very world would be restored. Solas says so in the game, and he lists that as the basis of his motivation.
They will no longer be a physically weak and outnumbered race surrounded by stronger and more numerous and more culturally grounded races (humans and Qunari) who just want to oppress and assimilate them into their own culture (Andrastian city elves for humans, mindless followers of the Qun for Qunari).

No. You are conjuring up a detailed plan of pure love and compassion out of the single word "restoration". There is no ambiguity in that ending.

" Inquisitor: Why bother disrupting the Qunari plot if you're going to destroy the world regardless?

Solas: Because I'm not a monster. If they must die I'd rather they die in comfort."

He answers with "because", expanding on what was just said rather than refuting it. And well, he was the one who'd just explained that's what will happen in the first place.

I would also point out that the general apocalyptic dialogue doesn't change with a Dalish IQ. There is no "But your people will get an special invitation to my awesome party".

I hope we can stop being so terrified of gray morality. It's fine. It really is.

[FernRain]

I'm convinced there's something going on between Hakkon and Razikale (and Solas' plans). A journal said Hakkon was 'bound in silence' by Ameridan's magic, and Razikale's codices are about silence. If Razikale went silent with Dumat, that was about 400 years before Hakkon was bound. Or was Razikale bound like Hakkon?

 

If binding a spirit to a body or object is possible (those swirly stomach statues work), that could be what Solas has done to the evanuris. We saw what happened in the Still Ruins when we opened the rift: the binding magic failed and released everyone. So if the entire veil is removed.... All bindings might fail?

 

Imagine if Solas tricked the evanuris into thinking they would get ultimate power by being bound to something like a titan.. Then uh oh.

[midnight tea]

No. You are conjuring up a detailed plan of pure love and compassion out of the single word "restoration".

There is no ambiguity in that ending. It is said more than once.

" Inquisitor: Why bother disrupting the Qunari plot if you're going to destroy the world regardless?

Solas: Because I'm not a monster. If they must die I'd rather they die in comfort."

He answers with "because", expanding on what was just said rather than refuting it. And well, he was the one who'd just explained that's what will happen in the first place.

Let's stop being so terrified of gray morality. It's fine. It really is.

 

Well, that plus he killed Felassan for "seeing them as people" and after he pleaded to give them a chance...

 

Still - considering that a lot of Solas' plans and motivations and how things will fare are still up in the air, I'd say that we're yet to see how exactly he's going to restore things and who will perish. I mean, it's not like he's 100% certain that everyone will kick the bucket - even in a quote above he tells Inky: " If they must die I'd rather they die in comfort." - and he also tells disliked Inquisitor that the restoration of the elves "may" destroy Inquisitor's world.

 

So there are a lot of unknowns - likely even to Solas. Especially that he's saving Inquisitor - at least the liked one - to give them a chance to prove him wrong, though what 'proving wrong' means is also unknown; the world may not be destroyed, but it may be still fundamentally changed (that I think we can pretty confidently say will happen in some capacity, even if we manage to kill or redeem Solas).

[Qun00]

We're way past the time when subtle hints were all we had and any theory was fair game.

Right now, all that is missing is the whys and the hows. The "what" was openly spelled out for everyone.

But I understand that the harsh reality of this may be more than some can handle.

[midnight tea]

Anyway PHEW! After spending hours on Hissing Wastes I've FINALLY managed to get this thing! -> http://dragonage.wik...severance_(bow)

 

The way we acquire it (from a spirit masking as a chantry sister) is pretty intriguing, but it's the description that takes the cake:

Inscribed in an unusual script: "Long have I endured, as the world has endured. Though time has worn the skies, it shall not reduce me, for I am eternity." Touching the wood gives a sense of devotion... of unknown source.

 

It almost sounds... Maker'ish? Though given that DA creators stated that they're not really interested in answering the question of his existence I'm somewhat skeptical. YET, many things in DAI that were ascribed to the Maker turned out to be ancient elfy-related (plus, the model of the weapon is the same as Elgarn'nan Enaste from Trespasser) I do wonder if this is some forgotten elfy deity or... err.. the sun?

 

 

... Uh, and why can't I stop thinking about the Seneschal from Dragon's Dogma?

[midnight tea]

We're way past the time when subtle hints were all we had and any theory was fair game.

Right now, all that is missing is the whys and the hows. The "what" was openly spelled out for everyone.

But I understand that the harsh reality of this may be more than some can handle.

 

You're not being very subtle about "well it's all very clear and those who disagree are in denial". Also - please stop with false dichotomies: just because we have enough information now to fill in some of the gaps doesn't mean that we have all the information we need to rule out all possible theories.

 

And just because people keep wondering about Solas motivations and how the end of the world may look like - aside form possibility that it will be as straightforward as the name implies it - doesn't mean that they don't accept "gray morality" or are in denial. This is all still within the perimeters of a complex, gray issue - whatever Solas is planning will change the world and the current plan is bad enough that neither Solas nor Inquisitor like it. But I have to shake my head at the notion that apparently utter chaos and death of everyone is the only acceptable outcome for "gray morality", as if anything that shakes the world to its foundation and has unintended victims somewhere along the way isn't.

[Qun00]

. I mean, it's not like he's 100% certain that everyone will kick the bucket - even in a quote above he tells Inky: " If they must die I'd rather they die in comfort." - and he also tells disliked Inquisitor that the restoration of the elves "may" destroy Inquisitor's world.

Right up there with "I take no joy in this, but the return of my people means the end of yours". Pretty straight forward.

Again, I don't understand what has you guys so frightened. If it turned that it's all a big misunderstanding and his plan never represented a real threat, then there would be no conflict.

DA4's hero suddenly finds out that they don't really need to stop Solas.

You're not being very subtle about "well it's all very clear and those who disagree are in denial". Also - please stop with false dichotomies: just because we have enough information now to fill in some of the gaps doesn't mean that we have all the information we need to rule out all possible theories.

And just because people keep wondering about Solas motivations and how the end of the world may look like - aside form possibility that it will be as straightforward as the name implies it - doesn't mean that they don't accept "gray morality" or are in denial. This is all still within the perimeters of a complex, gray issue - whatever Solas is planning will change the world and the current plan bad enough that neither Solas nor Inquisitor like it. But I have to shake my head at the notion that apparently utter chaos and death of everyone is the only acceptable outcome for "gray morality", as if anything that shakes the world to its foundation and has unintended victims somewhere along the way isn't.

These are strange parameters where the only acceptable conclusion is that this is a morally squeaky clean salvation for all, with shelther homes for all modern elves and nobody gets hurt. Or some people will, but mainly to rid the world of evil.

That's a rather white-ish gray color right there.

[Ellawynn]

We're way past the time when subtle hints were all we had and any theory was fair game.

Right now, all that is missing is the whys and the hows. The "what" was openly spelled out for everyone.

But I understand that the harsh reality of this may be more than some can handle.

 

Not necessarily. Even the "what" we have is exceedingly vague - we know Solas is trying to tear down the Veil, restore the world of the elves, and likely kill a lot of people. But that's really it - and there are plenty of whats that still aren't answered. What does he mean by "world of the elves?" A world with lots of magic and mages and spirits, a world with immortal elves, a world dominated by the new Elvhenan? What will tearing down the Veil change? What's going to be causing all this destruction Solas has resigned himself to? Really, we don't even know what's going to happen at all. 

 

Now, we know enough to say that Solas is probably not on a great path. He knows a lot of people are liable to die, and he finds that cost acceptable - I wouldn't blame anyone for condemning him on that alone. 

 

Personally? I wouldn't bet money on it, but I'd like for it to turn out that Solas' people aren't some theoretical concept, or scattered remnants living in secret corners of Thedas. I think it'd be fascinating if it turned out that there are elves trapped somewhere, probably the Fade, that can only be freed by tearing down the Veil. That if Solas doesn't do this, they'll suffer for eternity. He feels guilty for trapping them, and thinks it's duty to free them - it explains why he continues with his plan, even after you've convinced him of the value in this world, and it explains his "then you would bear the same burden I do" line, which I see very little explanation or discussion over. And once it's all revealed, it provides a fascinating moral dilemma - do you allow Solas to go through his plan and free his people? But then, you sacrifice your whole world. Do you stop his plans anyway, and condemn his people to eternal suffering? But then, how are you much better than him, damning one world to save another? Do you give up on the ancient elves, since they had their chance, and now it's this world's turn? But then, your world would simply die, while theirs will continue in torment for ages. If nothing else, it'd give some chilling significance to Solas' "Wouldn't you, to save your own?" line.

 

But, I'm content with anything that doesn't make him out to be a Stupid Evil villain stripped of all the complexity and nuance he showed as a companion. 

[Qun00]

I believe that true ambiguity is what you have in a statement like Flemeth's. "For a reckoning that will shake the very heavens".

What did she mean? What is that going to do? We don't know. However, Solas' explanation didn't leave us in the dark like that.

[FernRain]

Inscribed in an unusual script: "Long have I endured, as the world has endured. Though time has worn the skies, it shall not reduce me, for I am eternity." Touching the wood gives a sense of devotion... of unknown source.

 

It almost sounds... Maker'ish? Though given that DA creators stated that they're not really interested in answering the question of his existence I'm somewhat skeptical. YET, many things in DAI that were ascribed to the Maker turned out to be ancient elfy-related (plus, the model of the weapon is the same as Elgarn'nan Enaste from Trespasser) I do wonder if this is some forgotten elfy deity or... err.. the sun?

 

Could be about faith. But I like your idea better regarding Elgar'nan .

[Ellawynn]

I believe that true ambiguity is what you have in a statement like Flemeth's. "For a reckoning that will shake the very heavens".

What did she mean? What is that going to do? We don't know. However, Solas' explanation didn't leave us in the dark like that.

Ambiguity's not a binary thing, though. You can have two different statements be two different levels of vague. Yes, Flemeth's statement is far more vague than Solas', but that doesn't mean that Solas' is an explicit and detailed rant on what he wants, how he intends to achieve it, and what effect it'll have.

 

And it's important to remember that Solas' own statements are somewhat contradictory - he alternately uses "will" and "may," seemingly without reason as to why he's so wishy-washy about it. I don't think it leaves us enough room to argue that Solas is some morally-pure savior with a perfect plan that won't harm a fly... but I think it's similarly a leap to say it'll assuredly kill everyone. That conclusion's not quite as far-fetched, but it's not the only one you can possibly reach with the given information.

[midnight tea]

Right up there with "I take no joy in this, but the return of my people means the end of yours". Pretty straight forward.

Again, I don't understand what has you guys so frightened. If it turned that it's all a big misunderstanding and his plan never represented a real threat, then there would be no conflict.

DA4's hero suddenly finds out that they don't really need to stop Solas.

 

You're being selective - you seem to only accept definitive answers, while ignoring those which imply that he's not certain what's to come. This is not exactly honest.

 

Also - I'm not really sure why you're making an assumption that people are frightened: that he may do something that pushes him past moral event horizon maybe, but one does not have to plot the utter end the world to do that. Look at Corypheus after all - his plan wasn't to 'destroy the world', it was in fact 'to give the world a god and nation it deserves' and give mortals comfort that someone 'up there' is looking out for them.

 

In theory this is vastly preferable, just from description alone, to end of the world. But we do know what hid behind that description - hubris, madness, elitism, utter disregard to what's sacrificed and stooping to most sinister of methods to manipulate or conquer people and nations, and that's just aside of the possibility that his insane plan will bury everyone. The HOW is therefore as important - if not more important - than the WHAT of a given plan.

 

Also - given that Corypheus was actually sort of a red herring and during Inquisition we basically built power that is able to withstand what's to come after this threat (and perhaps make Solas start doubt his plan if we gain his respect) there's no way of telling if this is the way DA4 will take (I mean aside from the fact that Solas is already a vastly different antagonist compared to Cory).

 

Will there be just one antagonist? Will there be more? Solas is pretty obviously terrified of the Blight and we know that there are other threats stirring in the background. So the conflict may not be as straightforwards as redeem/kill Solas - there are other routes the story may take. Is killing him the right path to go, given the shaky fate of elves/magic/Fade if we do, OR that we may need him to battle the real threat? Will we maybe have to side with some sort of unknown force to actually kill him? And what if it turns out that it's Inquisitor that is the threat at the end of it all? I mean, DA3 hasn't yet answered the question of whether Inquisitor will save the world or destroy it (Ellawynn has also provided few other excellent possibilities for future conflict).

 

There are so many possibilities with current set up, I'm surprised you seem to be expecting they'd stick to the simplest one. Especially given the fact that Trespasser doesn't just paint Solas as a straightforward threat, but offers us an option to redeem him.

 

These are strange parameters where the only acceptable conclusion is that this is a morally squeaky clean salvation for all, with shelther homes for all modern elves and nobody gets hurt. Or some people will, but mainly to rid the world of evil.

 

That's a rather white-ish gray color right there.

 

... Since when suggesting that the issue may be more complex than just 'destroying everything' makes everything "morally squeaky clean"?

 

Like... wut? Where do you even get "salvation for all" or "nobody gets hurt"? This is nothing more than a strawman, and a pretty annoying one.

[midnight tea]

Personally? I wouldn't bet money on it, but I'd like for it to turn out that Solas' people aren't some theoretical concept, or scattered remnants living in secret corners of Thedas. I think it'd be fascinating if it turned out that there are elves trapped somewhere, probably the Fade, that can only be freed by tearing down the Veil. That if Solas doesn't do this, they'll suffer for eternity. He feels guilty for trapping them, and thinks it's duty to free them - it explains why he continues with his plan, even after you've convinced him of the value in this world, and it explains his "then you would bear the same burden I do" line, which I see very little explanation or discussion over. 

 

THIS. I'm not sure why people aren't discussing this line, given the implications it possibly carries...

[Sable Rhapsody]

IMO Solas seems reasonably certain that his plan will not end well for modern Thedas, including the elves. And he steels himself to go through with it regardless. That's pretty unambiguous.

Here's the catch: he might not be right in his predictions. Raising the Veil had huge, unintended consequences, and I think lowering it will too. The Veil is not a big green light switch, even if Solas wants to treat it like one And there are more forces at play than just the Wolf. Remember, Loghain thought he was defending Ferelden from Orlesian influence, and Meredith thought she was protecting Kirkwall. That genuine belief didn't mean they were correct in their assumptions, and I don't think we should assume everything Solas says will come to pass either.

Maybe some gremlins will survive and reconnect with magic. Maybe the Titans wake up. Maybe the dwarves regain their connection with the Titans. Maybe spirits start to gain bodies like Cole. Personally, I'll be a little disappointed if the story turns out to be as simple as "Drop Veil, world ends."

[Eivuwan]

IMO Solas seems reasonably certain that his plan will not end well for modern Thedas, including the elves. And he steels himself to go through with it regardless. That's pretty unambiguous.

Here's the catch: he might not be right in his predictions. Raising the Veil had huge, unintended consequences, and I think lowering it will too. The Veil is not a big green light switch, even if Solas wants to treat it like one And there are more forces at play than just the Wolf. Remember, Loghain thought he was defending Ferelden from Orlesian influence, and Meredith thought she was protecting Kirkwall. That genuine belief didn't mean they were correct in their assumptions, and I don't think we should assume everything Solas says will come to pass either.

Maybe some gremlins will survive and reconnect with magic. Maybe the Titans wake up. Maybe the dwarves regain their connection with the Titans. Maybe spirits start to gain bodies like Cole. Personally, I'll be a little disappointed if the story turns out to be as simple as "Drop Veil, world ends."

 

Or Solas will try to recreate his world only to find that his will is not greater than other people's so we end up with a bunch of competing creations instead.