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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#145276
Cee

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Also, I don't want 'redemption through death or self-sacrifice'. I expect more from them. Those can be good, but they're overdone, and after working their way up to here over three games, I want something less cheap and tropey.


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#145277
ladyiolanthe

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It most likely refers to the Anchor. There's really nothing to suggest it refers to Solas there.

 

I'm thinking along the lines of how the Anchor was made using Fen'Harel's orb. He can control it to a certain extent - that's how he keeps it from killing us at the beginning of the game.  So it's linked to him, and it's possible Cole is detecting something about Fen'Harel through it.


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#145278
FernRain

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I've been trying to get a cuddling mood of my system lately :) So going to drop this here.

 

http://umabbas.tumbl...ge/134656940194

Spoiler

 

Wow Fen'lnan.. Did you draw every one of those books? I like your art! *cry* I hope I get that good at proportions. You make it look so easy :P.

 

Also there's something really sad in Emerald Graves. There's a strange elven tower  in the forest  that cannot be accessed and some companions comment on it. Cole says that there was a woman in that tower who called for help but no one could hear her.

When I first heared that I imagined many different scenarios, but it seems likely that this tower could be accessed only by an Eluvian...and when the network was shut down, she just got stuck up there and had no way to escape. That's my version of it at least.

 

Where's this? Must find.. And I like your interpretation of the eluvian turning off.

 

Yeah, I am preparing myself to find out that the happiest ending my Lavellan will be able to have is to hold Solas as he dies, so he doesn't have to die all alone.

 

Don't even say that.. oh my gosh :lol:.

 

tumblr_inline_nylvm2EmTu1rroi9o_500.gif



#145279
DarkSun09

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Yeah, I am preparing myself to find out that the happiest ending my Lavellan will be able to have is to hold Solas as he dies, so he doesn't have to die all alone. 

 

I'm also hoping that I'm wrong.

 

I would LOVE that ending. :lol:  Omg, heartbreak and tragedy are foods for my soul. That's why I prefer the Solas/Lavellan romance over Cullen's warm fluffy one. If I'm to get a tragic ending with the dread wolf, they better make it hurt, or I'll be sorely disappointed. 



#145280
DarkSun09

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Also, I don't want 'redemption through death or self-sacrifice'. I expect more from them. Those can be good, but they're overdone, and after working their way up to here over three games, I want something less cheap and tropey.

 

How else can redemption be achieved do you think?



#145281
Cee

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I'd actually love a happy ending for Solas/Solavellan. Nobody expects it. He seems to believe he's off on an irreversible, inevitable path of death and destruction, including likely, his own. And everyone keeps thinking there's just no way there can be any happy ending.

 

But, again, to bring up Cole - "He wants to give wisdom, not orders." Also, bits and pieces we can get from the act of freeing, sheltering, and providing for former slaves.

 

I'd love if they could travel together and spread wisdom and care for others somehow.


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#145282
ladyiolanthe

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I would LOVE that ending. :lol:  Omg, heartbreak and tragedy are foods for my soul. That's why I prefer the Solas/Lavellan romance over Cullen's warm fluffy one. If I'm to get a tragic ending with the dread wolf, they better make it hurt, or I'll be sorely disappointed. 

 

I would both love and hate it.  Love it because it would seem a fitting end to Solas' very, very sad story, but hate it because none of my Dragon Age romances ever have really happy endings!  Also, my Inquisitor ended up getting most of Clan Lavellan killed and was told she now carries the clan. So, if the Jennies actually manage to *find* some survivors, my Inquisitor would probably feel obliged to have kids with one of them, but would be miserable the whole time because she *really* wants the highly intellectual partner she had in Solas.  I think she would also like to be able to teach any children she might have the truth that she has been learning since becoming the Inquisitor, but doesn't feel like she is even beginning to scratch the surface of it, while Solas actually lived it.  And he likes teaching, anyway.  ;)



#145283
DarkSun09

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I don't get why he needs to tear down the veil and bring the Fade here. Can't we just figure out a way to gather up the kids, move up into the Fade, and live there happily-ever-after? Didn't he say some parts of it was nice?



#145284
Cee

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The Fade freaks a lot of people out in general. Also, demonic possession. :P


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#145285
DarkSun09

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I'd actually love a happy ending for Solas/Solavellan. Nobody expects it. He seems to believe he's off on a irreversible, inevitable path of death and destruction, including likely, his own. And everyone keeps thinking there's just no way there can be any happy ending.

 

But, again, to bring up Cole - "He wants to give wisdom, not orders." Also, bits and pieces we can get from the act of freeing, sheltering, and providing for former slaves.

 

I'd love if they could travel together and spread wisdom and care for others somehow.

 

Ooh! They could travel around Thedas and gather up all the little orphan mages that were kicked out of their Dalish clans. Then we can start our own clan full of little elfy mages. He can mentor them, help them better understand their magic, teach them not to fear the Fade. Rogue Lavellan can teach them to hunt and fight. Mage Lavellan can help them learn magic. Warrior Lavellan can be protector of the clan. That'd be awesome. We'd be happy.


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#145286
DarkSun09

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The Fade freaks a lot of people out in general. Also, demonic possession. :P

 

Oh yeah. There's that. Lol! But we can figure out a way around that, right? Maybe duplicate a bunch of Cole's amulet thingy so we don't get possessed? Is that how that thing works? I forget. Anything is better than burning everyone to death. :lol:   



#145287
DarkSun09

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I would both love and hate it.  Love it because it would seem a fitting end to Solas' very, very sad story, but hate it because none of my Dragon Age romances ever have really happy endings!  Also, my Inquisitor ended up getting most of Clan Lavellan killed and was told she now carries the clan. So, if the Jennies actually manage to *find* some survivors, my Inquisitor would probably feel obliged to have kids with one of them, but would be miserable the whole time because she *really* wants the highly intellectual partner she had in Solas.  I think she would also like to be able to teach any children she might have the truth that she has been learning since becoming the Inquisitor, but doesn't feel like she is even beginning to scratch the surface of it, while Solas actually lived it.  And he likes teaching, anyway.   ;)

 

Wait, what? That's what happens when you get your clan killed? You become keeper? Why do you have to breed with them, though? Maybe you can find a pair of male and female survivors and breed them with one another instead. Maybe you can adopt a bunch of orphans from other clans and add them to yours. The Dalish kick out their extra mages, right? Take them in. They don't have to be blood-related to you to be part of your family. 

 

Don't cheat on Solas, you bad girl.


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#145288
ladyiolanthe

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Wait, what? That's what happens when you get your clan killed? You become keeper? Why do you have to breed with them, though? Maybe you can find a pair of male and female survivors and breed them with one another instead. Maybe you can adopt a bunch of orphans from other clans and add them to yours. The Dalish kick out their extra mages, right? Take them in. They don't have to be blood-related to you to be part of your family. 

 

Don't cheat on Solas, you bad girl.

 

No, my Lavellan didn't become Keeper; she's a rogue.  I think she'd have to be a mage to be a Keeper, but becoming Keeper of Clan Lavellan is not actually an option for any Dalish Inquisitors, as far as I know.

 

Actually, I think that I am getting myself confused about which outcome I got for Clan Lavellan; there is one where Leliana assassinates the Duke of Wycome and then the soldiers decide to attack the Dalish as their scapegoats. That's the one where the Keeper tells you that you carry the clan because they are mostly all dead.  That's not the one I actually did, though!  I generally tried NOT to have Leliana assassinate people.   ;)

 

Anyway roleplaying wise, my Inquisitor does feel awful for having got most of her clan killed so she'd feel like she ought to try to rebuild it, whether the Keeper told her to or not.   :)



#145289
midnight tea

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 Pointing out something so pervasive is exactly what makes it redundant, though. People give up after experiencing repeated trauma. Yeah, so? That's not unique to the dread wolf, so it hardly sheds any new light on his situation or motivation. That's why I was curious why you brought it up and talked about it so deeply.     

 

Er, what? Since when the conversation was ever about it being unique to the Dread Wolf? If I believed so, would I give all the other examples of people giving up in the franchise itself? What does it have to do with anything unique - other than Solas has dealt with a lot of pain throughout his super-long life and did something monumental that he had to do, but also deeply regrets?

Uniqueness is not the point - I'm not even sure why you think it is. Isn't it actually more interesting to see that even an immortal god-like person deals with stuff puny mortals do, hence we can actually relate to him to a degree or understand what he's going through - only, like, amplified to x1000 or something?

 

 

I'm not getting your point because the concept you brought up and the example you use to illustrate it doesn't make sense. There is a contradiction between "giving up" and "hopelessness" vs "actively working towards something!" The mentality associated with each is inherently different. Solas wants to restore his world/make it a better place. That has always been his goal, and it has not changed. Solas does not exhibit this "learn helplessness" that you're talking about. If he did, he would give up on trying to restore his people, because that has been his goal all along. If his goal was always to try and save Thedas, but he repeatedly fails, and so gives up trying, and instead resort to destroying the world to start anew... then you could say he is exhibiting this learned helplessness. But his course has not changed. His goals have not changed. He has not lost hope. He tells you, "some hope remains for restoration."

 

It doesn't make sense only because you think about it in a simplistic fashion, it seems. There is no contradiction if you understand that learned hopelessness, or even just the concept of giving up doesn't always mean giving up entirely and just, say, lie on the floor, completely defeated - it also means resigning oneself to certain outcomes, or never expecting that they'd be able to overcome certain obstacles even if they try. Solas still tries to help people, but he doesn't think it can be done without destruction and him paying some sort of great personal price. How does this doesn't make sense?

 

Also - how do you know that he doesn't just destroy the world to start anew? We don't know his plans yet - only that he plans to bring "the world of the elves". That could mean everything, especially if you take into consideration that ancient elves/elves are closely related to spirits. What if he just plans to eradicate everything, return all spirits and souls to the Fade, reshape the world and let things go its own course after spirits become reborn or manifest in physical world he same way they did before, only without him and Evanuris in the picture?

 

 

He has not strayed from his path, despite falling in love with/befriending the Inquisitor. There is no learned helplessness here. 

 

Uh... it is precisely because he hasn't strayed from his path that I say that he's suffering from learned helplessness. His plan and his duty to his people is his cage. He sees no way out - no way to realize his plan without sacrificing the world and he forsakes his friendship and love because he thinks he has no choice on the matter.

 

This is also precisely why I say that Cole reads him after Lavellan romance and tells us that existence of Inquisitor "changes everything, but it can't". He can't because he's still sitting in his metaphorical cage. I'm not really sure why this is such a hard concept to get.

 

Well, you said he felt hopeless... that implies being devoid of hope. Lol.

 

Um, why picking one word from the entire sentence I write or despite me explicitly stating much earlier that I don't think he's not entirely devoid of hope?

 

 

Oh, ok. That's why we keep not seeing eye-to-eye! Lol. You see Solas as passively accepting his fate, while I see him as actively choosing it. You think he is resigning himself to death and destruction because he is without hope, while I think he is making the steadfast choice to pay the price of death and destruction in the hopes that it will bring about a better world. That's how we differ.

 

Eh... You keep missing my point. Having a hope that his actions will bring about a better world isn't mutually exclusive with him giving himself to death and destruction - precisely because it's his solution to how to save the world that is the problem here.

 

I mean.. how can you say that "he's not given up himself to death and destruction", when he plans to reshape the world by using death and destruction?

 

Accepting that it will bring about the better world is pretty much the exact same as giving up himself to the terrible fact that the destruction will happen. Because for some reason he sees no other solution. Because it will cost him pretty much everything even though it may yet be unnecessary - that he thinks finding better solution is beyond his control. THAT's the tragedy of Solas - he dares not to hope for anything better than a terrible cost of fixing his mistakes, with no viable alternative on a horizon (maybe somewhere under the rock, but definitely not on the horizon :P), so he resigns himself to the fact that it is likely the only way to achieve what he's set out to do.



#145290
midnight tea

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I don't get why he needs to tear down the veil and bring the Fade here. Can't we just figure out a way to gather up the kids, move up into the Fade, and live there happily-ever-after? Didn't he say some parts of it was nice?

 

I think if it was something so simple, he'd have done it already. 

 

I mean, the only reason why Inquisitor's party survived the Fade physically was because the Anchor protected them - and aside from using copious amounts of lyrium and elvhen blood to get temporarily transported into the Fade any mortal who enters it should not be able to survive. Don't forget that Solas was shocked that Inquisitor survived and then that he himself has survived their fall into Abyssal Rift. He - the ancient elf. A former god-like entity.

 

Plus, we see broken eluvians in the Fade as well as burned corpses of people reaching towards it, as if trying to escape the Fade, only never making it to the mirror - likely ancient elves who perished when Solas constructed the Veil. That, plus Cole's comment that the Fade feels utterly WRONG for him, even in his half-human shape and protection of the Anchor when he's in teh Adamant party, should tell us enough that just entering the Fade with a bunch of elves is not a viable solution. The Veil must've changed much more than just repelled the magic form the waking world


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#145291
DarkSun09

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It doesn't make sense only because you think about it in a simplistic fashion, it seems. There is no contradiction if you understand that learned hopelessness, or even just the concept of giving up doesn't always mean giving up entirely and just, say, lie on the floor, completely defeated - it also means resigning oneself to certain outcomes, or never expecting that they'd be able to overcome certain obstacles even if they try. Solas still tries to help people, but he doesn't think it can be done without destruction and him paying some sort of great personal price. How does this doesn't make sense?


Solas helping people is just something that he does. Because he's a good guy deep down. It doesn't pertain to his goals, though. We're talking about his plans to restore his people here. He still thinks it can be done, hence he keeps trying to do it, no matter the cost. He believes he can overcome any obstacle and achieve that. Why do you keep confusing his actions with his endgame goals? There's no learned helplessness here when it come to the latter.

Also - how do you know that he doesn't just destroy the world to start anew? We don't know his plans yet - only that he plans to bring "the world of the elves". That could mean everything, especially if you take into consideration that ancient elves/elves are closely related to spirits. What if he just plans to eradicate everything, return all spirits and souls to the Fade, reshape the world and let things go its own course after spirits become reborn or manifest in physical world he same way they did before, only without him and Evanuris in the picture?


Maybe that's his goal. I doubt it, but who knows. What's the question/point here?

Uh... it is precisely because he hasn't strayed from his path that I say that he's suffering from learned helplessness. His plan and his duty to his people is his cage. He sees no way out - no way to realize his plan without sacrificing the world and he forsakes his friendship and love because he thinks he has no choice on the matter.


So you're saying that if he gives up on his plan to restore his people because it's a hopeless/destructive cause, that's NOT learned helplessness. But if he remains steadfast on his plan to restore his people THAT's learned helplessness because that means he has given up on life/love/happiness/etc??? How does that make sense to you? Why is giving up on one thing ok, but giving up on another is considered a "learned helplessness?"

You're saying he hasn't strayed from his path because he's stuck on it. I'm saying he hasn't strayed from his path by choice... because he wants to be on it. How do you know he wants a way out anyway? He tells us he takes the name "dread wolf" as a badge of honor. He wants to fulfill his duty to his people. He sees hope for restoration. The only thing he's feel hopeless about is being with Lavellan. You can apply learned hopelessness to that. Not the restoration thing though.

This is also precisely why I say that Cole reads him after Lavellan romance and tells us that existence of Inquisitor "changes everything, but it can't". He can't because he's still sitting in his metaphorical cage. I'm not really sure why this is such a hard concept to get.


It changes everything because he sees Lavellan as real. The relationship is important to him, but it's trivial in the grand scheme of things. When you compare that to how much was lost and how much can still be recovered... the price of love is a small thing to pay. He's not stuck. He can always choose to give up his plans and go live happily-ever-after with her, but he chooses to continue because the mission is more important to him. Always, he has a choice and he makes it.

Um, why picking one word from the entire sentence I write or despite me explicitly stating much earlier that I don't think he's not entirely devoid of hope?



For clarification. You didn't make sense.

Eh... You keep missing my point. Having a hope that his actions will bring about a better world isn't mutually exclusive with him giving himself to death and destruction - precisely because it's his solution to how to save the world that is the problem here.

I mean.. how can you say that "he's not given up himself to death and destruction", when he plans to reshape the world by using death and destruction?


I get your point. I just don't agree. His solution isn't to use death and destruction to save the world. His solution is to tear down the veil. The death and destruction that will likely follow is not what he wants, but it is an unfortunate byproduct. That distinction is important.

Accepting that it will bring about the better world is pretty much the exact same as giving up himself to the terrible fact that the destruction will happen. Because for some reason he sees no other solution. Because it will cost him pretty much everything even though it may yet be unnecessary. THAT's the tragedy of Solas - he dares not to hope for anything better than a terrible cost of fixing his mistake, with no viable alternative on a horizon (maybe somewhere under the rock, but definitely not on the horizon :P), so he resigns himself to the fact that it is likely the only way to achieve what he's set out to do.


I can understand him giving his life to further his cause. But you're saying he's doing that because he has no hope of finding another way. How do you know there even is another way? How long should he search, how far should he look before he can give up and not have you say he is plagued by "learned helplessness?" Should he search forever? Also, how is spending time doing that not considered "learned helplessness?" Solas is a powerful mage who has lived thousands of years. He has an enormous force of spies and agents. He knows all kinds of magic and secrets about the world. You think if there was a way to restore his people without endangering the current world, he hasn't thought of it? You're arguing that he should maintain the hope that another solution exist, and should continuously search for it even after failing over and over again. That behavior, according to you, is learned helplessness.

#145292
DarkSun09

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No, my Lavellan didn't become Keeper; she's a rogue.  I think she'd have to be a mage to be a Keeper, but becoming Keeper of Clan Lavellan is not actually an option for any Dalish Inquisitors, as far as I know.
 
Actually, I think that I am getting myself confused about which outcome I got for Clan Lavellan; there is one where Leliana assassinates the Duke of Wycome and then the soldiers decide to attack the Dalish as their scapegoats. That's the one where the Keeper tells you that you carry the clan because they are mostly all dead.  That's not the one I actually did, though!  I generally tried NOT to have Leliana assassinate people.   ;)
 
Anyway roleplaying wise, my Inquisitor does feel awful for having got most of her clan killed so she'd feel like she ought to try to rebuild it, whether the Keeper told her to or not.   :)


Ehh, too much work. Just have the duke executed in their memory and call it a day. lol. jk.

#145293
DarkSun09

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I think if it was something so simple, he'd have done it already. 
 
I mean, the only reason why Inquisitor's party survived the Fade physically was because the Anchor protected them - and aside from using copious amounts of lyrium and elvhen blood to get temporarily transported into the Fade and mortal who enters it should not be able to survive. Don't forget that Solas was shocked that Inquisitor survived and then that he himself has survived their fall into Abyssal Rift. He - the ancient elf. A former god-like entity.
 
Plus, we see broken eluvians in the Fade as well as burned corpses of people reaching towards it, as if trying to escape the Fade, only never making it to the mirror - likely ancient elves who perished when Solas constructed the Veil. That, plus Cole's comment that the Fade feels utterly WRONG for him, even in his half-human shape and protection of the Anchor when he's in teh Adamant party, should tell us enough that just entering the Fade with a bunch of elves is not a viable solution. The Veil must've changed much more than just repelled the magic form the waking world


Ok, brainstorm. What are our options, then? Can't bring the Fade here... can't go to the Fade...
Mmmm... how about we tear the veil a tiny bit at a time and let the Fade seep slowly into the world. People won't be overwhelmed and burned by the force of it. Can that be done? Or do you think it has to be like ripping off a bandaid?

God, I wish we knew more so we can have something to work with.
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#145294
dawnstone

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Hey,

As I'm playing through Inquisition, I keep wandering about one thing. Maybe someone has got a good answer?
Why some of the ancient elven ruins look as though some rocks are growing on them? I know that some time has passed and a lot of damage is natural, but in many cases, there's no good reason for the way they look. For example, in Emprise du Lion, the buidings that look like Coloseum look as though someone teleported a huge rock and put it inside of them.... Same goes for the ancient bathhouse (is that how it is called?) in Exalted Plains. Do you think it's just  a strange design choice or there's more to it? Or maybe rock growing on top of ruins are natural and I just don't know that...

Titans have control over moving the earth, shaping and reshaping it and are known for destroying buildings and such that are built on top of them.

 

In Trespasser it is highly implied that they were at war with the elves, who ultimately defeated a number of them and mined them for lyrium - at least until something happened (probably the Taint/the Blight). There are places in the Exalted Plains where it appears that the ground rose up underneath existing structures and partially swallowed them, or broke them apart. The three Colosseums in the Emprise, (which are clearly ancient elven structures that have been repurposed and redecorated by those who came after them, as the arches used in them are the ones used in most elven architecture) also seem to suffer from what appears to have been the earth being reshaped around them, long ago.

DOg2SOd.jpg See how the rock seems to flow up into the arches, more than the arches seem to be built into them?

 

bpyvfzN.jpg

 

And here, there's a spur of rock that breaks up the wall. It's pretty clear the rock here was pushed up after the wall was built.

 

It could all be volcanic activity, yes, but considering that we know there are giant sentient underground creatures who tore up elven cities, I'm tending towards thinking there was some sort of willful action here.


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#145295
Gwyvian

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Hey,

As I'm playing through Inquisition, I keep wandering about one thing. Maybe someone has got a good answer?
Why some of the ancient elven ruins look as though some rocks are growing on them? I know that some time has passed and a lot of damage is natural, but in many cases, there's no good reason for the way they look. For example, in Emprise du Lion, the buidings that look like Coloseum look as though someone teleported a huge rock and put it inside of them.... Same goes for the ancient bathhouse (is that how it is called?) in Exalted Plains. Do you think it's just  a strange design choice or there's more to it? Or maybe rock growing on top of ruins are natural and I just don't know that...

 

Also there's something really sad in Emerald Graves. There's a strange elven tower  in the forest  that cannot be accessed and some companions comment on it. Cole says that there was a woman in that tower who called for help but no one could hear her.

When I first heared that I imagined many different scenarios, but it seems likely that this tower could be accessed only by an Eluvian...and when the network was shut down, she just got stuck up there and had no way to escape. That's my version of it at least.
 

 

As for the ongoing discussion, I'd like to see that Solas doesn't need to resign from his plans in order to stay on the 'good' side. I don't believe in general that resigning from his greatest dream (I think he really would like to see the world without Veil) would do him any good. It would destroy the character for me. All I hope for is that with the help of Inquisitor or because some change of circumstances he can find a way to make it without destroying the world. Or with minimal casualties.

 

That tower seems like a Lady of Shalott reference. I love that idea.

 

Also, Wheel of Time connection (because that's officially what I do it seems): the Time of Madness and Bubbles of Evil! In the first, cities end up in seas, harbors on the top of mountains, I imagine a lot of "teleportation gone awry" sort of stuff would have come about. I imagine the raising of the Veil to be much in the same vein as far as world-shattering changes go, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are correlations in this. Of course, as it was said before me, there are Orlesian architectures out there, too, which conform to the land in certain ways, so not all of these would be a parallel I assume. As for the latter, corridors shift and people end up in rooms with no doors, etc.



#145296
CapricornSun

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Art break.  :ph34r:

 

The Unending Wake, Part 37.

 

The Unending Wake, Part 38.

 

Solas being protective over his smol Lavellan in Halamshiral full of elf-hating jerks. :P

 

Solavellan forehead kiss. <3

 

Lavellan kissing the forehead of a tired, sleepy Solas.  :wub:

 

Solas carrying Lavellan. :D

 

WIP of Solas holding on to a dying Lavellan. :(

 

Rembrandt-inspired Solas artwork. One version with hair and one without.

Spoiler

 

Solas all beaten up. :(

 

Concept!Solas.


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#145297
DarkSun09

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Ahh CapricornSun... I was wondering when you were stopping by with our daily Solavellan fix. Here, have all of my likes. *click click click click click*
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#145298
Cee

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The sad art mixed in with the cute and happy art sums up this fandom. Cuteness, adorable, hot, sexy moments, then ALL THE FEELS.


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#145299
TheyCallMeBunny

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It most likely refers to the Anchor. There's really nothing to suggest it refers to Solas there.

 

I hope you are right! I've been hellspiraling a bit lately, I think I'm going to borrow one of our blankets for myself for a while... 

 

0123ab7ada3fff64e3bc6a49af953184.jpg


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#145300
Cee

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So cute. :)

 

We have quite a while to go, so the hellspiral will come and go. Only natural.

 

Still, I can't wait until they announce something, but my best guess for that isn't until after the new Mass Effect comes out. DAI was officially announced 6 months after ME3 came out.

 

But this time around we know David Gaider's secret IP is also in the works. So they're not solely working with two series now. Who knows when things will be official. There's also Magekiller coming. And Gaider's DA novel that he confirmed writing Fenris for.


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