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[Illyria]

I've started watching Torchwood. Every. Time. Ianto speaks....I just... *melts into a puddle and cries*

(Actually it's mostly giggling because..just because. )

 

Don't watch after season two.

 

Spoiler

Pointless, badly written deaths and casual biphobia/bi-erasure.

[midnight tea]

I had a dream about Solas :'(.

 

He refused to hug me at the end of the game, to make me have more feels. Then he turned up and was into it, and I wanted to find a private room for us so I could kiss him (I'm thirsty in my dreams!). But of course every single room was taken and I couldn't find anywhere. Ughhhh.

 

Right, I forgot... Remember perhaps how I said once that I never really had any significant DA-related dreams?

 

Well... scratch that. I had a dream last night - and GOD, it was weird. 

 

Basically, Bioware has decided to make a TV series, starring DAI companions... in a modern setting. I assume this is the fault of me skimming through a handful of modern AU's, I mean - it HAS to be it.

 

It began with Solas buying an old gas station and transforming it... into a restaurant. A 50-ties themed, black-and white restaurant... I mean, wat? Oh, there were a lot of desserts available, because OF COURSE there were. It's Solas after all. I even remember being jealous that they look much better then what we serve in our family restaurant

Also, Solas was pretty much very open about his shapeshifting and he avoided other companions during the opening day (the place was packed!) by shifting into them or his patrons and mostly mocking them incessantly for their inability to find him. He ceased it when he shifted to his female employee and grew uncomfortable when one of the clients began hitting on him

 

I saw it all because I was there... and at the same time not there. But that's not surprising - many of my dreams are kind of like movies or plays I actually watch from inside. I'm not an active participator as much as I'm an audience inside my own dream.

 

Anyway, later I remember all of it becoming pretty convoluted, with the TV wasting its time and spinning its wheels with some weird ideas and a lot of crude sex jokes - I remember being so disappointed about it that I actually moved FROM the TV series on the couch, watching TV the series was screened on and b*tched to someone (er, you all?) how they're wasting all the potential there is.

 

FINALLY, at episode 7 (I remember it was episode 7) the semblance of the real plot began to emerge, after some shady people kidnapped a woman (apparently rich - owner of some important business). She managed to escape, although she injured herself in the result - the gang was sent to investigate (why would they need a restaurant owner and a writer to investigate some kidnapping I have no idea). The dream kind of ended in the middle of them sitting in a cramped limousine and trying to explain some kind of weird magical powers they've had - but at that point I was waking up so it all became a mess.

 

Sooo... that's about as much as I remember. Gawd, my brain can be so weird sometimes...

[drosophila]

I did ... twice.  Took forever both times.  Definitely a pita both times.  Do not ask me why I did it twice.  ><

 

Lost save?

 

Sorry

[drosophila]

Right, I forgot... Remember perhaps how I said once that I basically had never really had any significant DA-related dreams?

 

Well... scratch that. I had a dream last night - and GOD, it was weird. 

 

Basically, Bioware has decided to make a TV series, starring DAI companions... in a modern setting. I assume this is the fault of me skimming through a handful of modern AU's, I mean - it HAS to be it.

 

It began with Solas buying an old gas station and transforming it... into a restaurant. A 60-ties themed, black-and white restaurant... I mean, wat? Oh, there were a lot of desserts available, because OF COURSE there were. It's Solas after all. I even remember being jealous that they look much better then what we serve in our family restaurant

Also, Solas was pretty much very open about his shapeshifting and he avoided other companions during the opening day (the place was packed!) by shifting into them or his patrons and mostly mocking them incessantly for their inability to find him. He ceased it when he shifted to his female employee and grew uncomfortable when one of the clients began hitting on him

 

I saw it all because I was there... and at the same time not there. But that's not surprising - many of my dreams are kind of like movies or plays I actually watch from inside. I'm not an active participator as much as I'm an audience inside my own dream.

 

Anyway, later I remember all of it becoming pretty convoluted, with the TV wasting its time and spinning its wheels with some weird ideas and a lot of crude sex jokes - I remember being so disappointed about it that I actually moved FROM the TV series on the couch, watching TV the series was screened on and b*tched to someone (er, you all?) how they're wasting all the potential there is.

 

FINALLY, at episode 7 (I remember it was episode 7) the semblance of the real plot began to emerge, after some shady people kidnapped a woman (apparently rich - owner of some important business). She managed to escape, although she injured herself in the result - the gang was sent to investigate (why would they need a restaurant owner and a writer to investigate some kidnapping I have no idea). The dream kind of ended in the middle of them sitting in a cramped limousine and trying to explain some kind of weird magical powers they've had - but at that point I was waking up so it all became a mess.

 

Sooo... that's about as much as I remember. Gawd, my brain can be so weird sometimes...

 

That's awesome

[ComedicSociopathy]

Anders was a good character ruined by some bad writing, whereas Solas is a very well written character who makes terrible descions.  I guess Ned Stark Syndrome?

 

You're right, I'd never presume to say that Solas was terribly written. Still though when I learned what he planning I was like "Fenny, we can't find some nice real estate in the Dales or something instead of this crappy plan? No. ******." 

 

Anyways, I think the guy has Stannis Baratheon Syndrome more then Ned Stark Syndrome. The allure of fixing all your problems with magic is pretty difficult to resist when you think you're the one and only savior of your people. 

[Illyria]

You're right, I'd never presume to say that Solas was terribly written. Still though when I learned what he planning I was like "Fenny, can't find some nice real estate in the Dales or something instead of this crappy plan? No. ******." 

 

Anyways, I think the guy has Stannis Baratheon Syndrome more then Ned Stark Syndrome. The allure of fixing all your problems with magic is pretty difficult to resist when you think you're the one and only savior of your people. 

 

Yes.  Stannis makes some of the worst descions in the books.  If he and Ren had opted to work together (Ren being the one to wear the crown and be charming and Stannis as the power behind the throne) the serise would be one, maybe two, books long.

 

But nooooooo.  They both had to want the crown and go to war and divide what could've been a united force behind the brothers!

[midnight tea]

You're right, I'd never presume to say that Solas was terribly written. Still though when I learned what he planning I was like "Fenny, can't find some nice real estate in the Dales or something instead of this crappy plan? No. ******." 

 

Anyways, I think the guy has Stannis Baratheon Syndrome more then Ned Stark Syndrome. The allure of fixing all your problems with magic is pretty difficult to resist when you think you're the one and only savior of your people. 

 

I'm not sure how about saving people in the long run, but considering that he is the creator of the Veil and the only remaining evanuris-like entity we so far know of (that wasn't killed or locked somewhere), he may indeed by the one (or one of very few) that can actually do anything to improve (or "improve") the situation of the elves, or whatever lifting or modifying nature of the Veil could do.

 

I mean, it's not like in DA we didn't have heroes who had to succeed in something, because they were the only ones who could save everyone - Inquisitor with the Anchor comes to mind first. And seeing how Inky is the counter-part to Solas - how many parallels are between them - it may indeed be that Solas is the only one who so far can do something important, be it in positive or negative way.

[Master Warder Z_]

...What makes you think so? What if actually killing Solas or gaining power to kill him actually means something akin or maybe even worse than global genocide and rending of the very fabric of reality?

I mean, if you say that there's pretty much no line PC can cross in order to stop Solas, then you're really not much different from an arrogant bald bastard you intend to stop.

Worse then the death of every living person in the world and turning the living world into a playground for demons...are you joking? Literally everyone dies and the reapers win in this scenario, I fail to see how it gets worse then. Everyone and everything dies, the end.

Implying there might be is ludicrous.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Yes.  Stannis makes some of the worst descions in the books.  If he and Ren had opted to work together (Ren being the one to wear the crown and be charming and Stannis as the power behind the throne) the serise would be one, maybe two, books long.

 

But nooooooo.  They both had to want the crown and go to war and divide what could've been a united force behind the brothers!

 

Indeed. Renly and Stannis team up, Lannisters are beaten and Starks get to go home and kick some Greyjoy ass.

 

It could of been beautiful. 

[Elessara]

Lost save?

 

Sorry

 

I wish.  That would make more sense.  No, I've just played Trespasser twice.  I have serious game OCD.  MUST DO ALL THE THINGS.

[drosophila]

Anyways, I think the guy has Stannis Baratheon Syndrome more then Ned Stark Syndrome. The allure of fixing all your problems with magic is pretty difficult to resist when you think you're the one and only savior of your people. 

 

I think he really believes he has no other choice but to fix them with magic. He's desperate and it seems like the only solution. Why? No idea, I wish I got more of a glimpse of what's in his head.

 

I also wish I knew more about his motives: Is it because he can't stand for his civilization to die out? Is it because he feels he needs to fix his mistake? Is it because this world that is so disconnected from the Fade seems horrible? Is it because Thedas is going to hell soon anyway unless he does something? Those are just some possibilities from what we know so far. 

[Ellawynn]

Snip

 

I... didn't get through Act One of the Witcher 3, so, uh... ??? I don't know how I'm expected to respond to that. 

 

As for the Bull's quest thing, see my comment to Elessara.

 

Snip

 

 

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of "Every choice sucks, choose the one you think sucks the least" idea either.  Because that makes me feel like hey this is going to suck regardless, why bother?  I'll go play a game that doesn't make me feel like crap just for playing.

 

I think the Cole quest so far is one of the best in terms of giving you two options but neither option is "right".  Each one has pros and cons but it's not "both options suck".  Now it may turn out going forward that this choice has further consequences but as it stands right now it's fairly even.

 

 

I mean, yeah, I agree that negative consequences shouldn't be off the table, or that the outcome of Bull's quest was fine - I guess I shouldn't be coy and say things like "not such a bad thing" when what I mean is "not a bad thing at all."

 

But I think there's an issue in taking such a major choice, a choice that entire swaths of the story rely on, where sound arguments can be made in either direction, and making one the clear "right" choice. When something's that ambiguous and that major, it should be treated with more respect. 

 

As for "every choice sucking" - but the Cole choice is a prime example of what I mean. Arguments can be made in either direction, and you'll find no end of discussion on them. Really, the Well choice is also an example of what I mean - there's no clear "right" or "wrong," there's pros and cons to every side. Do you give that power to a power-hungry wild-card? Do you keep it and possibly endanger yourself? I don't want no negative consequences, or only negative consequences, but I see no problem in respecting decisions and keeping a balance between different choices.

 

Really, if we're being honest here, I still don't see the outcome of Bull's mission as a necessary net-negative - which is the other reason I'm not terribly bothered by it. Because it's only the "wrong" decision if you value Bull and the Chargers over whatever aid the Qunari gave during the short-lived alliance. Given how fast and loose BioWare was with that, you could easily argue that it was still the more pragmatic choice, and that people only backpedaled because the price suddenly became a personal one on them without warning. That's not something I have an issue with - I haven't got anything against unforeseen consequences either.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I think he really believes he has no other choice but to fix them with magic. He's desperate and it seems like the only solution. Why? No idea, I wish I got more of a glimpse of what's in his head.

 

I also wish I knew more about his motives: Is it because he can't stand for his civilization to die out? Is it because he feels he needs to fix his mistake? Is it because this world that is so disconnected from the Fade seems horrible? Is it because Thedas is going to hell soon anyway unless he does something? Those are just some possibilities from what we know so far. 

 

My bet is that guilt is the main factor in Solas making his decision, but dying alone as the last of the ancient elves is likely another big factor as well. 

[Illyria]

My bet is that guilt is the main factor in Solas making his decision, but dying alone as the last of the ancient elves is likely another big factor as well. 

 

Guilt, fear of being the last of a dying race, and a good helping of pride.

[Master Warder Z_]

My bet is that guilt is the main factor in Solas making his decision, but dying alone as the last of the ancient elves is likely another big factor as well.

He can be reunited with his people in hell after his hopefully satisfactory death in DA4

Or not, I don't care.

[midnight tea]

Worse then the death of every living person in the world and turning the living world into a playground for demons...are you joking? Literally everyone dies and the reapers win in this scenario, I fail to see how it gets worse then. Everyone and everything dies, the end.

Implying there might be is ludicrous.

 

 

Who's ludicrous here? If Solas' plan is to turn the world into basically what Corypheus managed to accomplish in the future we get a glimpse of in future Redcliffe, why he intended to stop Corypheus in the first place, instead of joining him?

Obviously whatever he plans is must not be so straightforwardly predictable. He wants to save the elven people and bring back 'the world of the elves', not kill everyone and turn the world into playground of demons after all.

[midnight tea]

I... didn't get through Act One of the Witcher 3, so, uh... ??? I don't know how I'm expected to respond to that. 

 

As for the Bull's quest thing, see my comment to Elessara.

 

... Why do you expect to respond based just on your personal experience? I was talking about more than experience of one person, and that - in general - people seemed to like the fact that TW3 offers varied consequences, including many negative outcomes of our previous choices in the epilogue.

[drosophila]

My bet is that guilt is the main factor in Solas making his decision, but dying alone as the last of the ancient elves is likely another big factor as well. 

 

Personally I'm for "save his people" or "repair this sh*tty world".

 

Not that guilt doesn't play into it, but I think when it comes to his morals Solas is rather selfless, and when it comes to his actions he is rather pragmatic. 

 

So he wouldn't act out of guilt, because he would recognize that 1. fixing his guilt is a selfish motive, and 2. it's an act driven out of emotions rather than pragmatism. 

 

Besides, I don't think he wants to assuage his guilt. I think on some level he believes he's earned it and should feel bad, and recognizes that even removing the Veil won't make the guilt go away. (Ot bring back what was lost, for that matter. It's lost, Solas!)

 

Guilt might be clouding his judgement, but I don't think it's his main motive. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Who's ludicrous here? If Solas' plan is to turn the world into basically what Corypheus managed to accomplish in the future we get a glimpse of in future Redcliffe, why he intended to stop Corypheus in the first place, instead of joining him?

Obviously whatever he plans is must not be so straightforwardly predictable. He wants to save the elven people and bring back 'the world of the elves', not kill everyone and turn the world into playground of demons after all.

Solas straight up said that the world wouldn't survive, he didn't care. So yeah, his plan is basically Cory's only the Empire has changed. So it is straight forward, predictable even.

He's going to end the world, like a blight or that nutjob darkspawn. So whose ludicrous here? The person who ignores what the antagonist tells them they plan to do and then pretends that it wasn't said.

Trespasser plainly laid out baldy's entire scheme.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Really, if we're being honest here, I still don't see the outcome of Bull's mission as a necessary net-negative - which is the other reason I'm not terribly bothered by it. Because it's only the "wrong" decision if you value Bull and the Chargers over whatever aid the Qunari gave during the short-lived alliance. Given how fast and loose BioWare was with that, you could easily argue that it was still the more pragmatic choice, and that people only backpedaled because the price suddenly became a personal one on them without warning. That's not something I have an issue with - I haven't got anything against unforeseen consequences either.

I think the back pedaling on Bull might have to do with implementation too. If picking the dreadnought gave the Inquisition more tangible benefits beyond dialogue and war table (schematics, substantial rare resources, intelligence at Halamshiral from Ben-Hassrath, etc.) I bet more players would stick with that choice. As it is, what you gain in terms of gameplay isn't worth what you lose.

[midnight tea]

As for "every choice sucking" - but the Cole choice is a prime example of what I mean. Arguments can be made in either direction, and you'll find no end of discussion on them. Really, the Well choice is also an example of what I mean - there's no clear "right" or "wrong," there's pros and cons to every side. Do you give that power to a power-hungry wild-card? Do you keep it and possibly endanger yourself? I don't want no negative consequences, or only negative consequences, but I see no problem in respecting decisions and keeping a balance between different choices.

 

But it's just unrealistic to just expect most choices being more or less equal - there are some choices that are better or worse than others. As in games, as they're in real life. Sticking to "it's always around middle grey" is no better than "it's always black and white". There are things we can choose that are better - even if the route we choose may not seem like one at times.

 

Plus - while the choice for Cole is probably no better in one way or the other (a true middle grey choice on pretty much all levels), the Well choice is 'grayish' for now simply because we don't have more information about consequences of it at this time.

[drosophila]

He can be reunited with his people in hell after his hopefully satisfactory death in DA4

 

I rather like this idea. 

 

If Solas went to hell, first he would overthrow Satan, then introduce a bunch of reforms for your average demons, like plumbing, air-conditioning, overtime pay, vacation days...

 

If I'm going to hell, I'd rather Solas got there first

[Ellawynn]

... Why do you expect to respond based just on your personal experience? I was talking about more than experience of one person, and that - in general - people seemed to like the fact that TW3 offers varied consequences, including many negative outcomes of our previous choices in the epilogue.

 

Because I'm not familiar with the material, if it's comparable, how it's comparable, or any of the nuance of the situation. I'm relying entirely on you for information on the matter, and you're inclined - even if only subconsciously - to hand me information that only supports your position.

 

Again, I'm not making a blanket denouncement on negative consequences, and given some of your comments on Dragon Age choices, I have a feeling that what you and I even constitute as unbalanced negative consequences are vastly different. That's something I can discuss in the context of Dragon Age. I'm hopelessly lost if we move it into the Witcher.

[Cee]

I rather like this idea. 

 

If Solas went to hell, first he would overthrow Satan, then introduce a bunch of reforms for your average demons, like plumbing, air-conditioning, overtime pay, vacation days...

 

If I'm going to hell, I'd rather Solas got there first

 

 

[midnight tea]

Solas straight up said that the world wouldn't survive, he didn't care. So yeah, his plan is basically Cory's only the Empire has changed. So it is straight forward, predictable even.

 

LOL, he actually never said that. In fact he literally describes having to destroy one world to save another a terrible choice ("sometimes terrible choices are all what remains") and stopped the Qunari invasion and saved even disliked Inquisitors because he doesn't want more bloodshed in the world he doesn't apparently care about.

 

Please don't make stuff up to justify your position.

 

 

He's going to end the world, like a blight or that nutjob darkspawn. So whose ludicrous here? The person who ignores what the antagonist tells them they plan to do and then pretends that it wasn't said.

Trespasser plainly laid out baldy's entire scheme.

 

Yeah, I see there's no point discussing anything with you here. You've obviously made up your mind.