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[midnight tea]

Solas is lucky he never has to worry about hair! I wish my hair would not get as oily..

 

Well, he has to worry about sunburns or his head getting cold Also someone using the back of his head as canvas for crude drawings...

[lynroy]

He has sunburns covered. Solas says this in the Western Approach, "This is were I appreciate learning the magic to prevent sunburn on a bald head."

[midnight tea]

He has sunburns covered. Solas says this in the Western Approach, "This is were I appreciate learning the magic to prevent sunburn on a bald head."

 

Yes, but he can't forget about casting the spell - plus I imagine that at some point he might run out of magic during fight-intensive exploring and then where he would be?

 

In any event, I can't wait for a time he'd misfire his spell, so we could get this:

 

[CapricornSun]

Another art post.

 

More sick Solas in the morning. (Solavellan)

Spoiler

Source http://theresa-draws...-in-the-morning

 

 

Smol and tol. (Solavellan)

Spoiler

Source: http://theresa-draws...qually-confused

 

 

A little light reading with his loved on. (Slightly NSFW for nudity)

Spoiler

Source: http://paranoidfacto...oved-one-4-down

 

 

Solas is a natural at ice skating and Lavellan  not so graceful. (GIF)

Spoiler

Source: http://paranoidfacto...-at-ice-skating

 

 

Solas and Lavellan having a picnic.

Spoiler

Source: http://melowynlavell...or-fluff-friday

 

 

Solas trying to get his shirt back from Lavellan. (Cute and playful! )

Spoiler

Source: http://solavellangar...ack-no-its-mine

 

 

Looking Glass fanart: Pride in Andruil's garden (Hnnngh, he's so pretty )

Spoiler

Source: http://pyrrhy.tumblr...g-glass-chapter

 

[TheyCallMeBunny]

I know I'm terribly behind in posts, but I just wanted to drool about Valen for a spell.   Completely in the same vein, he and Alistair. Only with a tail. And horns.

 

Anyway, sorry everyone, I've lost my car and apartment at the same time and my health isn't super great as a result, and I'm swamped with work on top of it all, so I might be in and out for a time yet. If anyone could just... summarize for me, I'd be grateful and more able to participate in the conversations.

 

I hope everything will change for the better soon! Hmm, since your situation stink and I want you to feel better about it - have a baby skunk or two!

 

[Tess]

Sorry for the double post!
 

 

My 5 cents: (although I draw rarely and it takes me quite long). 
I always used to draw and color on paper since I was in school.

Many years ago - and I mean many! - I bought a Wacom Bamboo tablet. So I would draw with pencil on a paper, ink, scan and color with Photoshop.
I know a lot of artists get used to this - and it's not like I couldn't.. but to me it takes the fun away. I love looking at what and where I am drawing, having a full sensation of my finger and looking down at my art.. So the "disconnection" between hand and eyes always annoyed me. Most of the times, once I was finished drawing, I became annoyed at coloring shortly, and it's not cause I don't like coloring.. It would take me forever to finish something cause I would do it for 30 min/ 1 hour and get tired or bored, like I'm chained to the desk.. I thought I was just lazy but thinking about it I always liked spending hours and hours coloring when I was 18-22 so it can't have been that. I realized that it's just coloring looking up while the hand is somewhere else that doesn't cut it for me.. It feels like work and not pleasure - plus it strains my neck! The thrill and joy of coloring for me is lost. So I need something to draw on screen..

Of course Cintiqs are too expensive. I pondered for a while about a Microsoft Surface Pro - but still I don't have a job at the moment so can't afford it..
So after a lot of research I bought a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition - it comes with a stylus which apparently has Wacom digitizers but if you want you can replace it with a Wacom pen anyway if it's too thin.

I wondered whether it was any good and the video who made me decide for it was this: 
If it's possible to do art like this, for me it's good enough as I only do it for hobby.

I haven't tried yet - (blame my new Lavellan PT which is taking all my time    ) But I'm going to London for 14 days for Xmas and I won't have my pc to play.. so I'll spend most of the time there bringing to life some drawings I have in mind.

We shall see what comes out

My husband is hinting on something along the Cintiq for Xmas ... Fingers crossed. I connected my Note 4 to my pc as a virtual tablet and you're right, I just can't get used to the disconnect. Not mentioning being tied to a desk with my kids ruining the apartment meanwhile is not an option Cheers for the reply!

[Ellawynn]

(Sorry for bringing this up again but I fell asleep sorry.)

 

Snip

 

...But when was it established that we're only talking about ending choices? I know we began with the Solas choice at the end of Trespasser - but a lot of the significance of it comes from the fact that it's setting the ground for another story and, by nature, not an ending. And if you find Bull's quest irrelevant, why did you bring it up? 

 

Snip

 

 

But that's exactly my point! The strong opinions about the ME3 ending - it's because there's no designated "right" option, except for how the individual ranks them. You're talk about the Witcher 3's ending also only proves my point - that your standard of morality causes you to unbalance the options, and I imagine if I asked another player about the endings, they'd probably have a different opinion on which ones are "better" or "worse."

 

As is, I can only take your word for it - and your word is probably pretty different from the conclusions I'd come to myself if I were able.

 

And I tried to gently imply this with my last post, so let me state it outright - it's kind of rude to keep bringing up a talking point while knowing full well that the person you're discussing with has no knowledge on the subject and can't say anything one way or the other. At the very least, it shows a disregard for my thoughts and opinions, given that I can't possibly have any on this subject.

[midnight tea]

(Sorry for bringing this up again but I fell asleep sorry.)

 

 

...But when was it established that we're only talking about ending choices? I know we began with the Solas choice at the end of Trespasser - but a lot of the significance of it comes from the fact that it's setting the ground for another story and, by nature, not an ending. And if you find Bull's quest irrelevant, why did you bring it up? 

 

 

Whatever is going to happen, the choices about Solas ARE  ending choices - or at least something close to it. Whatever will happen to him, I don't expect to be just done as a side-quest in the middle of the game. And you mentioned how people may feel that they're treated unfairly after investing so much effort in a game, only  to have their choices mocked or have dire consequences in the end - so something bigger than just a bigger companion quest.

 

And I mentioned the Bull's choice, because for far it's the most relevant in the game itself. Like you previously said, we needed common ground, and I was sure that we certainly played the same game, ey? Witcher 3 I simply mentioned to underline my point, as an existing fantasy RPG game with varying ending and consequences for one's choices.

 

 

But that's exactly my point! The strong opinions about the ME3 ending - it's because there's no designated "right" option, except for how the individual ranks them. You're talk about the Witcher 3's ending also only proves my point - that your standard of morality causes you to unbalance the options, and I imagine if I asked another player about the endings, they'd probably have a different opinion on which ones are "better" or "worse."

 

But that's the thing - there's no such controversy with Witcher's 3 endings. Precisely because while some choices are more at grey, debatable area, some of them are clearly meant to be dire consequences of doing something wrong. And it's not just my perception - some games clearly state "hey, you've done something wrong, you know!". It's apparent both in case of some BW choices and in case of some TW3 endings. The game literally spells out that you've led to character's death and pretty much mocks it for you all the way, rubbing it in Geralt's/player's face. 

 

Yet I don't see that many people pissed off about it, aside from a few individuals. That was my point. People seem to handle bad endings, especially if they understand what has led to it.

 

 

And I tried to gently imply this with my last post, so let me state it outright - it's kind of rude to keep bringing up a talking point while knowing full well that the person you're discussing with has no knowledge on the subject and can't say anything one way or the other. At the very least, it shows a disregard for my thoughts and opinions, given that I can't possibly have any on this subject.

 

I would have qualms to bring any of it up, if the information about it was in any way difficult to verify. It isn't. I even offered to link you to all the necessary sources - you refused; you deemed it silly and you said you wouldn't bother and yet you keep insisting that this is all some kind of a very subjective matter, when I state you outright that it's not really a ME3 issue, or some choices and consequences are pretty straightforward. So you keep disregarding my thoughts and opinions, while claiming that I disregard yours. Well, we won't be getting far with such attitudes, don't we?

 

In any event I apologize for making you feel as if I disregard your opinions - that was not my intention. If I didn't think that information was hard to verify I wouldn't do it and I'd be more careful if I'd bring up more games next time, in the context of similar discussions.

[Ellawynn]

Snip

 

Yes, the Solas choice will effect the ending - but so did the Bull choice, given that it greatly effected the outcome of one of your companions. So... exactly what choices are fair game and which ones are irrelevant? 

 

And, I mean... you first brought up the Bull choice as an example of people getting mad that their choices turned out negatively, and now you're saying that people don't get mad when that happens? I guess I don't understand what you're getting at...

 

 

Snip

 

If the choices were obviously marked as the wrong thing, then of course people aren't mad when they turn out to be the wrong thing. But the Solas choice was more ambiguous, and I'd rather see it continue to be treated with that way.

 

 

 

Snip

 

 

*Sigh* Because it could be a subjective matter, but I don't know, because I haven't played the Witcher, because I do intend to play it at some point (So I don't want spoilers on it, thank you.) and because it is kinda of silly to learn about an entirely different game for the sake of a minor debate. 

 

And no, we absolutely will not be getting very far if you take my disagreement for disregard. Simply saying "I feel like I could have a different interpretation than you" is vastly different from "this is the only way to interpret it." I mean - you're even calling it straightforward. But what if I play through the game and disagree? It's just a pointless line of discussion, where no differing viewpoints can be gained or considered, since the only real viewpoint is yours.

 

But thank you for the acknowledgement, at least.

[midnight tea]

Yes, the Solas choice will effect the ending - but so did the Bull choice, given that it greatly effected the outcome of one of your companions. So... exactly what choices are fair game and which ones are irrelevant? 

 

Because the Bull's choice can be entirely disregarded - Solas' is not. However we are going to play, we will end up deciding something about his fate. It is a larger choice within a story upon which entire arc s built upon and dependent on more than just our personal approval level and choices made in personal quest. 

 

That was my reasoning, at the very least. If you consider Bull's choice as as valid as the possible end choice for Solas or the game itself, then hey - only consider my words in the context of widening perspective of consequences of choices (or reactions to it) across multiple successful western  fantasy RPG series.

 

And, I mean... you first brought up the Bull choice as an example of people getting mad that their choices turned out negatively, and now you're saying that people don't get mad when that happens? I guess I don't understand what you're getting at...

 

No, I said that some people were indignant - just like I said that some people were indignant about TW3 choices. It didn't stop Bioware from implementing Bull's choice and being unapologetic about it, and it didn't hinder Witcher's success. THAT was my point.

 

 

 

If the choices were obviously marked as the wrong thing, then of course people aren't mad when they turn out to be the wrong thing. But the Solas choice was more ambiguous, and I'd rather see it continue to be treated with that way.

 

The Solas choice is ambiguous... because so far we know so little what will happen. But just like the Well or some other choices, some choices in the future may decide of them becoming not so ambiguous as the story unravels.

 

In any event, I really see nothing bad about giving us a better and worse option, especially if both pose interesting questions - how far would you go to save a friend? Is it really worth it? What has to be done to save him? Will your other friends be alright about it, when Solas threatens their own world? Is he far too gone to be saved, despite us believing otherwise? Is saving him worth sacrificing someone else, perhaps?

 

Same with potential "turning into someone we've declared to stop" or perhaps doing something questionable to kill Solas - even if it might be technically a bad ending, it can still pose interesting questions. How far YOU would go to save your people? Do we have the right to criticize him, if we understand what he's going through - will we still be as stubborn as him, to the bitter end? What does killing him may mean for the future of Thedas? Is it really better?

 

There's no reason to think that just because some choices are better than others, they have to be outright bad - and even if they're bad, if they make us understand an issue or think something through, make people think perhaps about widening their perspective, what's wrong with that? That is not to say that "better" endings have to be fluffy and pristine white and don't carry any lessons or things to ponder as well.

 

 

*Sigh* Because it could be a subjective matter, but I don't know, because I haven't played the Witcher, because I do intend to play it at some point (So I don't want spoilers on it, thank you.) and because it is kinda of silly to learn about an entirely different game for the sake of a minor debate. 

 

And no, we absolutely will not be getting very far if you take my disagreement for disregard. Simply saying "I feel like I could have a different interpretation than you" is vastly different from "this is the only way to interpret it." I mean - you're even calling it straightforward. But what if I play through the game and disagree? It's just a pointless line of discussion, where no differing viewpoints can be gained or considered, since the only real viewpoint is yours.

 

But thank you for the acknowledgement, at least.

 

I'm sorry, but you said it before like you've had little interest in finishing TW3. If you just said - "hey, hang on with the spoilers, I stopped playing, but want to finish the game someday", I'd just end it at that. You never did - you made it sound rather like you just don't want to bother with it.

 

And really, the only way for you to verify whether you'd disagree with me or not is playing the game I guess. I stand by my opinion though. I wouldn't be calling anything straightforward if I wasn't confident that it wasn't just something I held in my viewpoint only. You may yet disagree with my impression or impressions of others, but the general opinion amongst those who finished the game when it comes at least certain endings comes across as rather definitively agreeing which one is the worst, at the very least (even if simply because it's hard to take it as anything else).

[Ellawynn]

Snip

 

 

Ignoring Bull or not doing his companion quest is a choice in and of itself, however, and I still fail to see why it matters anyway - if anything, the fact that the Solas choice is vital (While the Bull choice is not) makes it even worse. 

 

On people being indignant - but... that's still the problem? So BioWare was unapologetic, so it didn't hinder the W3's success, the fact is that people were upset by it, and would likely be upset if it were repeated with Solas.That's worth examining, perhaps worth rectifying, and dismissing them as blind or dumb or childish, simply because you didn't find yourself in their position...

 

Listen, this is getting long and off-topic and probably annoying people, and we seem to be going in circles because I'm not entirely understanding your points, and I'm not sure if you entirely understand mine, so let's cut to the core of what I'm trying to get at - There are people who hate Solas and what he plans to do, and I would not discard their feelings and opinions, I would not want to see them punished for their (Extremely valid) decisions simply because I don't agree with them. If nothing else, it's something I'd appreciate being giving to me, if the tables were turned and a bunch of Solas haters were hoping that the redemption path is doomed to failure, because I'm "obviously wrong" and just "missing all the clues" about how evil he is.

 

Perhaps my opinion's invalid, if it's such a rare one, but I don't see that as a reason to not have it. 

[midnight tea]

Ignoring Bull or not doing his companion quest is a choice in and of itself, however, and I still fail to see why it matters anyway - if anything, the fact that the Solas choice is vital (While the Bull choice is not) makes it even worse. 

 

On people being indignant - but... that's still the problem? So BioWare was unapologetic, so it didn't hinder the W3's success, the fact is that people were upset by it, and would likely be upset if it were repeated with Solas.That's worth examining, perhaps worth rectifying, and dismissing them as blind or dumb or childish, simply because you didn't find yourself in their position...

 

Just last thing to add - I fail to see how this is even a problem.

 

There were people who were indignant that we didn't choose to end Solas right there, in Trespasser (or, alternatively, go with him through eluvian and help with his world-ending plans). Should they be honored, just because they don't want to see Solas again? Should Bioware change their entire story just because some people really don't want to go to Tevinter after giving us some hints about future destination? I even remember one person being very indignant and vocal at the very fact that he has to run an organization called Inquisition and PC being called Inquisitor - he just wanted a chance to rename it and run it as he wanted.

 

There are people who were indignant that there were openly gay characters in DA, or the women looked "too manly" and that people who wanted to romance females didn't have many choices in terms of romance.

 

...So?

There will always be people complaining about contents of the game, choices that we were presented or NOT presented. And yes, some of the complains ARE dumb and childish. Some of people expectations or choices won't be honored or will be punished - we all saw it. And if a valid concern is raised, I'm pretty sure they keep an eye on it - we saw Bioware adjust some things in gameplay or narrative to address some concerns people had, but they rightfully keep some distance to it as well. And if they want to tell a story in one way or another and think that we perhaps should be making this choice and not that, I see no reason why they should be concerned "because some players feelings may be hurt". Simply because some players feelings will most definitely and inevitably be hurt, no matter what is done. 

 

The way I see it it can't be all even, because we can't have a cookie and eat a cookie too. If both (more?) choices are equally valid, it may as well mean that neither of the choices really matters, at least in the long run - and I think that actually hurts more people than validating one (or more) choice over the other.

 

Personally I say that if they want to eventually end up with Solas as an irredeemable bastard and we were only fooling ourselves into thinking that we can save it... so be it. As long as it is a good story and choices are well-justified, or I see no better way, I would likely be not entirely happy, but I'll get it. I'm pretty sure I will not be the only one. Either way, wherever the story goes, I think we can pretty readily say that people who just dismiss him as a cardboard villain (or accept him as a misguided hero who is otherwise pure as a freshly fallen snow) and want nothing other than easy victory (or easy redemption) will be disappointed no matter what direction the story would go

I mean... it's entirely possible that Bioware will yet waste all the beautiful buildup they've presented us so far, presenting Solas as a complex antagonist that is neither black or white, but at this point I don't think we should assume that.

[almasy87]

Solas is a natural at ice skating and Lavellan  not so graceful. (GIF)

Source: http://paranoidfacto...-at-ice-skating

 

 

 

Yes. That is pretty much me.
But I'm sure I'd learn in a heartbeat if Solas was teaching me....

[Ellawynn]

Snip

 

Some complaints being invalid does not mean all complaints are invalid. Neither does it mean that they are invalid simply because you don't share them. The fact that someone will be upset no matter what does not mean no concern should be given to upsetting people. I mean, what if BioWare do waste the build-up they've had with Solas? Are your complaints on the matter irrelevant, because someone was going to be upset anyway?

 

Personally, I'd be pretty pissed if the redemption path turned out to be a fool's errand. I doubt I'd be alone in that regard, given how many assurances I saw after Trespasser that "Of course we'll be able to save Solas, because they wouldn't give us the option otherwise." And they wouldn't, or they shouldn't. I'd be damned pissed if they didn't respect my choice like that, and since fair's fair, I'll be damned pissed if they don't respect the opposite choice either. 

[dawnstone]

Yes. That is pretty much me.
But I'm sure I'd learn in a heartbeat if Solas was teaching me....

Lol, the first time I saw this gif, I thought Solas wasn't wearing any pants. OH MY!

[FernRain]

Now all I can see is Elven glory-butt when he goes past .

[Kadan]

Lol, the first time I saw this gif, I thought Solas wasn't wearing any pants. OH MY!

They are rather shapely aren't they It's just a few seconds too fast, and he's really hard to see he flies by so quickly.

 

Chapter 17 of In Dreams Lay Answers is posted on AO3, and 18 will be posted before Monday. I had a rather long chapter that made more sense to cut in half than leave together.

 

FanFic chapter posted too. Content is still SFW on both sites.

[midnight tea]

Some complaints being invalid does not mean all complaints are invalid. 

 

Where did I even suggest that all complains are invalid? Didn't I specifically state that some of the complains are?

 

 

Neither does it mean that they are invalid simply because you don't share them. The fact that someone will be upset no matter what does not mean no concern should be given to upsetting people. I mean, what if BioWare do waste the build-up they've had with Solas? Are your complaints on the matter irrelevant, because someone was going to be upset anyway?

 

You're taking my response to unnecessary extremes. I never said anything about all complains being invalid, or all complains being irrelevant "because someone will be upset anyway", or complains being invalid simply because I disagree with them. I think I addressed all that in my previous comment sufficiently anyway. At best I said that a portion of complains will be disregarded, as it should be, and that some people will be upset no matter how well BW will address people's concerns.

 

Plus, a case of complaint would would be relevant if it's justified and voiced by significant portion of playerbase. If they waste all that buildup, we need only to point out at the existence of the buildup to have a legitimate case. You have to admit, that "I'm unhappy because this and this happened, while significant portions of us was led to believe here and there that we may have more choices to pick here" sounds more legit than, say "I want to kill that dude, because I don't like him for some arbitrary reasons or misunderstood motivations", or "I don't care that this NPC has her reasons to not romance my PC - gimme the romance, nao!".

 

 

Personally, I'd be pretty pissed if the redemption path turned out to be a fool's errand. I doubt I'd be alone in that regard, given how many assurances I saw after Trespasser that "Of course we'll be able to save Solas, because they wouldn't give us the option otherwise." And they wouldn't, or they shouldn't. I'd be damned pissed if they didn't respect my choice like that, and since fair's fair, I'll be damned pissed if they don't respect the opposite choice either. 

 

Chances are they'd be pissed anyway. Some are pissed off NOW after all. Bad choice or not, I don't expect DA4 to just give people a straightforward "murder" (or "ride away through the flowery meadows into the sunset") option and just run with it. I'm not ever worrying about it, because so far I'm pretty confident it won't happen.

[Ellawynn]

Snip

 

Ah.

 

So there's the issue. You don't think the reasons people have for hating/wanting to kill Solas are valid.

 

Well, that's a whole other can of worms. To you, the reasons and logic for choosing the kill path are nonsensical, if not malicious, and thus worthy of punishment. Well, I don't. I think one could reasonably and logically conclude Solas is evil, too far gone, and has to die. I don't believe that, but I won't fault people who do, and I won't fault them for choosing the path that aims for that. I wouldn't want the game to fault them for that, either. 

[midnight tea]

Ah.

 

So there's the issue. You don't think the reasons people have for hating/wanting to kill Solas are valid.

 

Well, that's a whole other can of worms. To you, the reasons and logic for choosing the kill path are nonsensical, if not malicious, and thus worthy of punishment. Well, I don't. I think one could reasonably and logically conclude Solas is evil, too far gone, and has to die. I don't believe that, but I won't fault people who do, and I won't fault them for choosing the path that aims for that. I wouldn't want the game to fault them for that, either. 

 

 

*sigh*

 

I'm not even sure how you came to this conclusion, when I very straightforwardly said in previous comment that if it turns out that Bioware has different plans for Solas than what I'm hoping it is, but present it in a compelling way, eventually I'd be okay with that.

 

So far we still yet don't have definite answers, even if we have hints that it's not as easy as Solas being either one or another, and that's aside from me hoping that he won't do something that crosses the line, be it towards moral bankruptcy or predictable and boring villainery.

 

In my last comment I also very explicitly stated that "I don't expect DA4 to just give people a straightforward "murder" (or "ride away through the flowery meadows into the sunset") option and just run with it", which basically is me saying that I don't think either choice would be overly simplistic, with downright killing or saving (so those who just want to kill him or save him, with no strings attached, will very likely be disappointed anyway).

 

How did you make it into "to you, the reasons and logic for choosing the kill path are nonsensical, if not malicious, and thus worthy of punishment" I don't know.

 

I mean obviously, I think that people who just downright condemn him as an irredeemable bastard have much less leg to stand on than they think they do and I'd be satisfied to see that they're proven wrong, but that's far from saying that those who choose the killing path are malicious or should be punished - through the phrasing on the tiles I SUSPECT that the route of stopping Solas "at all costs" denotes a possibility that people who may make that choice may have opportunity to cross a certain line, but there's no way of saying at this point of people on redemption path won't, for example, botch something and send themselves of an even worse, or similar path (and that's aside from difficulties on road to redemption itself). I'm very much for such possibility; I've mentioned it throughout the thread more than once.

 

You seem to oppose to the idea, simply because I propose that one of the choices is much darker, possibly objectively worse, while I still think that - worse than other or not - it's still interesting from both moral and conceptual standpoint as well as fitting the story in what likely it intends to tell. I underlined it more than a few times in several comments. So you framing my opinion as something far more simplistic than it is, is a little disheartening.

[Sable Rhapsody]

 

Yes. That is pretty much me.
But I'm sure I'd learn in a heartbeat if Solas was teaching me....

 

Now all I can see is Elven glory-butt when he goes past .

 

   Bah, out of likes.

[Ellawynn]

How did you make it into "to you, the reasons and logic for choosing the kill path are nonsensical, if not malicious, and thus worthy of punishment" I don't know.

 

It's rather difficult to see

You have to admit, that "I'm unhappy because this and this happened, while significant portions of us was led to believe here and there that we may have more choices to pick here" sounds more legit than, say "I want to kill that dude, because I don't like him for some arbitrary reasons or misunderstood motivations", 

 

as anything else.

 

If nothing else, you seem to think that if people are somehow denied their desire to kill Solas, they'll be in the wrong for getting upset. But if people are denied their desire to redeemed him, they'll be valid in their complaints. If that was not your meaning, please, correct me.

 

*Sigh* Listen, we're probably annoying everyone and I don't think anyone else is very interested in this debate, so... PM?

[midnight tea]

It's rather difficult to see

as anything else.

 

If nothing else, you seem to think that if people are somehow denied their desire to kill Solas, they'll be in the wrong for getting upset. But if people are denied their desire to redeemed him, they'll be valid in their complaints. If that was not your meaning, please, correct me.

 

The "I'm unhappy because this and this happened, while significant portions of us was led to believe here and there that we may have more choices to pick here" can apply to any situation, including both choices, doesn't it? The "I want to kill this guy" was an example of a badly formed argument, as well as one of the more popular ones - just like the romance complaint... Why would I even add a romance complaint, if I wasn't speaking in more general terms?

[Ellawynn]

Just a heads up, me and Midnight Tea are taking the debate to PM. Sorry for cluttering up the thread, guys.

[Uirebhiril]

Just a heads up, me and Midnight Tea are taking the debate to PM. Sorry for cluttering up the thread, guys.

 

We love you guys anyway.