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[drosophila]

I still never got that far with my one character that I did Champions of the Just with. I feel like they bungled a lot with Fiona, especially, and hate that you have to kill her if you go with the templars. I just read all those things in the codexes and wiki later though.

I did like the actual mission, mostly, though I think In Hushed Whispers is better. Still, I plan to go templar alliance whenever I make my Trevelyan mage. She will be a slightly buttoned-up Andrastian who respects templar protection/agrees a bit with Viv, and eventually becomes part of the cutest couple of blonde mayhem with her eventual wifey.

Having started with DAI, I never felt strongly about Fiona, so killing her didn't affect me.

I love that one bit in In Hushed Whispers where you see the companions in their cells and experience how they deal with the horrible future. It says a lot about each character.

In everything else Champions of the Just is much more enjoyable to me. The parts with Cole give me all the feels. Ser Barris is awesome and they really worked hard to make you understand and feel for the templars, most of whom came across as honorable people who want to do good, but are led astray by corruption and leadership.

Then after the alliance Calpernia's arc was much more interesting to me than Samson's. I find her a fascinating character. (So is Samson, but they really should have shown that more in the game IMO)

And finally, the most unforgettable moment for me is when you have to decide whether to mercy kill that guy at the shrine of Dumat or have him live in excruciating pain, so that he can be interrogated. For RP reasons I chose to let him live and Solas *approved*.

Whoa Solas. That really caught my attention, even before the reveal in Trespasser.

[Ellawynn]

One thing to keep in mind is that all of the "rules" and explanations we get about magic and the Fade and the Veil are all in world perspectives.  It's what people in the world believe and may not necessarily be true or correct.  It's not necessarily Bioware not following their own rules or being concerned with them it's that we don't really know what the rules are.  We think we know because the game tells us things but what we know is based on incomplete or possibly faulty information because the people in the world don't really know.

 

I'm alright with that explanation on some points... but on others, it pretty blatantly looks like BioWare just forgot or got tired of the rules they imposed on themselves. For instance, in DA 2 (And I believe in DAO, as well) you can find a book that states it's impossible to use magic to teleport (Wow, really autocorrect? You don't recognize teleport as a word?) - no matter what you do, one step will always be one step. Come Inquisition, and suddenly every mage is Fade-stepping across the map without anyone blinking an eye. 

 

I can buy people in Thedas coming up with wildly contradictory theories about stuff when they aren't really sure how it works (Although, that does mean my Lavellan looks like a total idiot, telling Bull that the Veil's actually more a jammer signal when literally everything about it points to it being a physical, manipulable barrier.) but stuff like that?

 

It doesn't really bother me - Dragon Age doesn't really try for a rigid magic system to begin with - but something about it just felt particularly blatant with Corypheus and his dragon. 

 

 

You were supposed to feel like you've been putting together a powerful organization over time, and thwarting him....only to find out what you were truly dealing with. Someone's mistake.

 

Still, I get the criticism, I just think the full picture mostly vindicates the depiction.

 

I can see that level of it - appreciate it, even. And the sting of Corypheus'... everything is a bit softened, knowing he was just the build-up to something bigger and - ideally - even better. 

 

I still feel like they could've made him work within that framework a bit more, though. He had a lot of potential to be neat and actually make that "A God Am I" cliche interesting. I just wished they had used it a bit better...

[GoldenGail3]

I still never got that far with my one character that I did Champions of the Just with. I feel like they bungled a lot with Fiona, especially, and hate that you have to kill her if you go with the templars. I just read all those things in the codexes and wiki later though.
 
I did like the actual mission, mostly, though I think In Hushed Whispers is better. Still, I plan to  go templar alliance whenever I make my Trevelyan mage. She will be a slightly buttoned-up Andrastian who respects templar protection/agrees a bit with Viv, and eventually becomes part of the cutest couple of blonde mayhem with her eventual wifey.

She sounds like my Female Mage Trevelyan, though I romaced Cullen instead.

And killing Fiona? I killed Fiona, and it was easier then killing that bloody Sir 'I'm gonna smash you with red Lyrum'. And I very much pefer Chamion of Just, it makes more sense story wise. And it has the better story, makes better sense then Cullens ' Self esteem storyline.' And its quicker to get to the Temple way easier doing Champions of the Just. Although, Solas hates me for doing it....

[midnight tea]

It's a pity.  Having played both now, I think I prefer the overall story with the templar arc.  I like Samson, but Calpernia is IMO better-written and gives more insight into the Venatori and Corypheus.  

 

 

Hmm...if that's the case, I think BioWare did a much better job of telling that story in DA2 than in DA:I.  There's not even a villain in Act 1 of DA:I.  It's just Hawke and company trying to survive in a city that was founded on the principle of stepping on the people below.  The Arishok and Meredith are villains, but they too are products of their circumstances and their own failings.  Had things been different, they might not have been bad guys, or at least not as directly opposed to Hawke.

 

Yes, but at the same time a small local story like in DA2 was an illustration of that bleakness and not much more. We could never accomplish much when it comes to challenging that bleakness in DAII (though it works as an origin story for future Inquisitor, since we have enough clues to suspect that this is what Hawke was supposed to be at first) - that, IMO is the Inquisition... well, okay - that would be a lie. First there was the Fifth Blight that had to be stopped (and the world introduced to us first), but now we're getting to a part of the story where the Inquisitor is supposed to be the literal herald of change. Hence the majority of the story centers on them rising to power rather than defeating Corypheus.

 

Cory functions predominantly as an accumulation of world's bleakness and problems. Even Solas tells Cass at one point - regardless who is responsible for Cory threat (*cough*him, to an extent*cough*) it's the conflicts in Thedas like mage-templar war, or civil war or general infighting that allowed him to rise to power: what is exposed in Inquisition and what we're fighting is predominantly the weakness of the entire system.

 

Question now is whether Inquisition and Inquisitor (and whoever is going to help them) is still enough, given that mere 2 years after Cory's defeat, the world begins to return to a state of slowly unraveling itself - the political infighting and demands towards Inqusition almost cost everyone losing the South to the Qun. The vicious circle so far continues. And the problems ahead only seem bigger and bigger.

[thats1evildude]

Don't know if this has been posted yet.

 

http://www.deviantar...s-You-577635842

[Ellawynn]

That cute gremlin managed to do what hasn't been done... well, probably since Andraste, and before that Fen'Harel - they've managed to unite people against a common threat long enough to actually push it back. We all saw what happened if we didn't seal the Breach and let Corypheus win in future Redcliffe; a year of that and we'd end up with a world ruined more than a Blight raging for centuries.

 

In many respects Corypheus wasn't the problem - the world is a problem in a state that it is. It's divided, torn by conflicts, takes more than it gives, to a point that a threat like Cory can rise and almost succeed. It throws in monsters and despair and twists even the most enduring heroes into more or less reluctant villains, or just betrays and kills them: Mythal, Fen'Harel, Andraste, Inquisitor in some respects after the job was done... Practically anyone who goes against this world and tries to change it either ends being corrupted or disposed of.

 

IMO the villain isn't Corypheus - it's the bleakness of the world itself. Cory wasn't as much of an individual threat as a symptom of a much bigger problem.

 

At least that's the impression I get so far. 

 

I dunno, I kinda feel like... like Cory was only a threat because the writers made him one. Like, he comes to power, because Solas makes a mistake and hands him the Orb. He gets his mages, because Fiona panics and throws in the Vints. He gets his demon army, because the Wardens freak out and try to suicide run the archdemons by slaughtering their own men. He gets Celene assassinated, because Florienne's a cackling one-note villain who's personality can best be summed up as "evil."

 

It's like the Inquisition's able to beat him, not because they're just that good, but because they're half-way competent and don't drive themselves off of cliffs as soon as something goes wrong - and it's great that we were able to surmount that problem, but at the same time it's like bragging about winning a race when all your opponents were snails and one pile of rocks. Sometimes it successfully came off as "The real issue is how these people are torn apart and unable to challenge the real threats." But most of the time it came off as "These people are helping Cory because hey man, that's what the script says." 

 

So I find it kinda hard to fault Solas for being an idiot with Corypheus when nearly everyone else was, too.  

 

...Jeez, I am being super critical today...

[midnight tea]

She sounds like my Female Mage Trevelyan, though I romaced Cullen instead.

And killing Fiona? I killed Fiona, and it was easier then killing that bloody Sir 'I'm gonna smash you with red Lyrum'. And I very much pefer Chamion of Just, it makes more sense story wise. And it has the better story, makes better sense then Cullens ' Self esteem storyline.' And its quicker to get to the Temple way easier doing Champions of the Just. Although, Solas hates me for doing it....

 

Personally, it doesn't make sense to me to go after Templars from in-story perspective, unless someone thinks that closing the Breach is worth ignoring everything that happens in Redcliffe. And a lot more suspicious stuff happens in Redcliffe than it does in Therinfal - to the knowledge of Inquisition, and in fact anyone that isn't the Venatori or Corypheus lackeys, nobody really knew what was the deal with Templars, or if they had any other plan of action other than holing themselves in Therinfal Redoubt together it Lucius. The situation seemed strange, but stable.

 

It was very different with Redcliffe - Tevinter magisters taking control over Redcliffe, spreading rumors and indenturing rebel mages, sinister time magic that Dorian warns us could unravel the world if it continues and finding out about the secret cult that is obsessed with the Herald ... IMO it's a situation that, from information available to our heroes, requires immediate attention, far more than situation with Templars is (add to that the fact that Lucius in Val Royeaux openly denounces Inquisition and refuses to help them, while Fiona appears and invites Inquisition to Redcliffe).

 

Even in the context of action of Lucius Corin's unwavering stance that he and his Templars are eventually going to deal with the mage problem should make Inquisitor determined to see if they can deal with Redclife first, because at this point not only they're risking both allies clashing and murdering one another instead of closing the Breach, but there's a possibility of open war with Tevinter over attacking one of their magisters as well as mages officially indentured to them.

[midnight tea]

I dunno, I kinda feel like... like Cory was only a threat because the writers made him one. Like, he comes to power, because Solas makes a mistake and hands him the Orb. He gets his mages, because Fiona panics and throws in the Vints. He gets his demon army, because the Wardens freak out and try to suicide run the archdemons by slaughtering their own men. He gets Celene assassinated, because Florienne's a cackling one-note villain who's personality can best be summed up as "evil."

 

LOL, but that's the thing - for all his faults, Corypheus has brilliantly played the weaknesses of the system to build himself an army (and for all we know, he built that army probably long before he even got the orb, or an idea what to do with the orb). Which is exactly my point.

 

He's a really good schemer, but this is where most of his power resides (he was defeated by Hawke in Legacy, wasn't he? Without the orb he may still be unkillable, but he is defeatable in the fight). Meddle with his scheming and you start unraveling his plans. Even Solas tells disliked Inky that they shouldn't thank him, since without his our Corypheus would be less of a threat - but he'd still be a threat. Venatori, for all we know, have been working with him for years before Conclave even exploded.

 

 

 

It's like the Inquisition's able to beat him, not because they're just that good, but because they're half-way competent and don't drive themselves off of cliffs as soon as something goes wrong - and it's great that we were able to surmount that problem, but at the same time, it's like bragging about winning a race when all your opponents were snails and one pile of rocks. Sometimes it successfully came off as "The real issue is how these people are torn apart and unable to challenge the real threats." But most of the time it came off as "These people are helping Cory because we're the writers and we say so no questions." 

 

So I find it kinda hard to fault Solas for being an idiot with Corypheus when nearly everyone else was, too.  

 

...Jeez, I am being super critical today...

 

Well, that's the thing - we're building the power by at least attempting to fix the broken system, because that's where real issue lies. Do note that nobody was really prepared to do anything with the Breach, or Cory, or the conflicts until Inquisition came.

 

Orlais? Embroiled in a civil war. Chantry? Unable to deal with mage-templar conflict exploding all over the place.. only to literally explode at the Conclave. Free Marches - hardly ever united against anything. Ferelden? Still dealing with effects of the Blight. Nevarra? Apparently not interested with much other than their internal affairs. Wardens - well, there's been a whole slew of issues with the Wardens ever since DAO, aside from Nightmare playing on their fears now. The Qun - more interested with leaving problems like Blight or Breach to someone else and later exploiting weakened lands to conquer them. Tevinter - deeply weakened, and at the cusp of both civil unrest and proper invasion from Par Vollen.

 

The fact that Inquisition even managed to accomplish what it did in such critically broken world is a miracle in itself :/ TBH, I can't not understand Solas wanting to push the reset button - I myself am tempted, the more I think about it  ...

 

Anyway - the critical weakness of most other countries or organizations we know of is also the same reason to believe that Inquisition is the only organization capable of going against Solas in DA4 - it truly is the only one of the few powers left standing, even if smaller after Trespasser.

[Elessara]

I'm alright with that explanation on some points... but on others, it pretty blatantly looks like BioWare just forgot or got tired of the rules they imposed on themselves. For instance, in DA 2 (And I believe in DAO, as well) you can find a book that states it's impossible to use magic to teleport (Wow, really autocorrect? You don't recognize teleport as a word?) - no matter what you do, one step will always be one step. Come Inquisition, and suddenly every mage is Fade-stepping across the map without anyone blinking an eye. 

 

I can buy people in Thedas coming up with wildly contradictory theories about stuff when they aren't really sure how it works (Although, that does mean my Lavellan looks like a total idiot, telling Bull that the Veil's actually more a jammer signal when literally everything about it points to it being a physical, manipulable barrier.) but stuff like that?

 

It doesn't really bother me - Dragon Age doesn't really try for a rigid magic system to begin with - but something about it just felt particularly blatant with Corypheus and his dragon. 

 

 

 

I can see that level of it - appreciate it, even. And the sting of Corypheus'... everything is a bit softened, knowing he was just the build-up to something bigger and - ideally - even better. 

 

I still feel like they could've made him work within that framework a bit more, though. He had a lot of potential to be neat and actually make that "A God Am I" cliche interesting. I just wished they had used it a bit better...

 

But the book that says teleportation is impossible was written from an in world perspective by a First Enchanter.  Just because they *think* teleportation is impossible doesn't mean it actually is.  Also, although some might call it a retcon, in that wiki entry you linked it notes that in DA2 when mages disappear and reappear elsewhere they are not actually teleporting.  And when you use Fade Step in DAI, you can see yourself moving very quickly and not simply disappearing and reappearing.

 

Honestly I think that book, The Cardinal Rules of Magic, is full of BS that the mages of current Thedas only think are the rules because they haven't been able to yet accomplish those things.  I mean, can't use magic to travel without putting one foot in front of the other to get there directly?  Wrong, if you consider the eluvians - while not necessarily teleporting does accomplish the goal of using magic to circumvent travel time and distance.  Can't enter the Fade physically (well except that one time when bad things happened, right?).  Wrong ... *Inquisitor waves*.  Once you die, you're dead for good?  I think I'll go talk to Mythal/Flemeth about that one.  Bet they thought time magic was impossible too.

 

Also ... mage is apparently also not in the dictionary of this forum.  You'd think it would be along with teleport, right?

[Elessara]

Personally, it doesn't make sense to me to go after Templars from in-story perspective, unless someone thinks that closing the Breach is worth ignoring everything that happens in Redcliffe. And a lot more suspicious stuff happens in Redcliffe than it does in Therinfal - to the knowledge of Inquisition, and in fact anyone that isn't the Venatori or Corypheus lackeys, nobody really knew what was the deal with Templars, or if they had any other plan of action other than holing themselves in Therinfal Redoubt together it Lucius. The situation seemed strange, but stable.

 

It was very different with Redcliffe - Tevinter magisters taking control over Redcliffe, spreading rumors and indenturing rebel mages, sinister time magic that Dorian warns us could unravel the world if it continues and finding out about the secret cult that is obsessed with the Herald ... IMO it's a situation that, from information available to our heroes, requires immediate attention, far more than situation with Templars is (add to that the fact that Lucius in Val Royeaux openly denounces Inquisition and refuses to help them, while Fiona appears and invites Inquisition to Redcliffe).

 

Even in the context of action of Lucius Corin's unwavering stance that he and his Templars are eventually going to deal with the mage problem should make Inquisitor determined to see if they can deal with Redclife first, because at this point not only they're risking both allies clashing and murdering one another instead of closing the Breach, but there's a possibility of open war with Tevinter over attacking one of their magisters as well as mages officially indentured to them.

 

I agree that from a story perspective, it makes more sense to me personally to go to the mages ... unless you never go to Redcliffe at all and go straight to Therinfal Redoubt which is possible because you can go directly there without even unlocking In Hushed Whispers.

 

And I am fairly torn on this because I greatly prefer siding with the mages but I also think that Calpernia is a more interesting character and I like that you learn more of Cory's motivations from her questline.  I'd have loved to do both but of course you can't for ... reasons.

[midnight tea]

 (Although, that does mean my Lavellan looks like a total idiot, telling Bull that the Veil's actually more a jammer signal when literally everything about it points to it being a physical, manipulable barrier.)

 

Actually, it is suggested that the Veil is more of a mental or metaphysical barrier - that the "physicality" of it is merely an illusion and that the Veil itself appears to be more of an idea implanted in people's head (http://dragonage.wik...entry:_The_Veil )

 

Kinda like.. um.... anyone watched Inception?

 

Spoiler

I assume it's kinda like the spinning top the protagonist has planted in his wife's dream.

 

Add to that the fact that every Inky with Arcane Perk can tell that to Bull in Trespasser - the latest addition to Dragon Age's canon, happening years after Inquisition has spent years studying mysteries of Thedas and the Veil itself, given that that's what they were fixing for so long - and I'd actually give that remark far more credence than any other information acquired earlier in any game.

[drosophila]

Personally, it doesn't make sense to me to go after Templars from in-story perspective, unless someone thinks that closing the Breach is worth ignoring everything that happens in Redcliffe. And a lot more suspicious stuff happens in Redcliffe than it does in Therinfal - to the knowledge of Inquisition, and in fact anyone that isn't the Venatori or Corypheus lackeys, nobody really knew what was the deal with Templars, or if they had any other plan of action other than holing themselves in Therinfal Redoubt together it Lucius. The situation seemed strange, but stable.

 

It was very different with Redcliffe - Tevinter magisters taking control over Redcliffe, spreading rumors and indenturing rebel mages, sinister time magic that Dorian warns us could unravel the world if it continues and finding out about the secret cult that is obsessed with the Herald ... IMO it's a situation that, from information available to our heroes, requires immediate attention, far more than situation with Templars is (add to that the fact that Lucius in Val Royeaux openly denounces Inquisition and refuses to help them, while Fiona appears and invites Inquisition to Redcliffe).

 

Even in the context of action of Lucius Corin's unwavering stance that he and his Templars are eventually going to deal with the mage problem should make Inquisitor determined to see if they can deal with Redclife first, because at this point not only they're risking both allies clashing and murdering one another instead of closing the Breach, but there's a possibility of open war with Tevinter over attacking one of their magisters as well as mages officially indentured to them.

 

It really depends on how you RP your Inquisitor. My canon Lavellan distrusted the rebel mages and never went to Redcliffe. 

[Ellawynn]

 

 

I feel like they were going for that, but could've pulled it off better. Like in Origins - Origins does a pretty good job of showing how everyone's too involved with themselves to help. The Circle went to **** because it was an awful system to begin with, the Dwarven elections went to **** because they're stodgy and traditional and sent in their ways, everything about Loghain went to **** because he was paranoid about Orlais to the point of being blinded to everything else. People made plenty of bad decisions, but they were decisions that could've seemed reasonable when looked at with their perspective, and their knowledge. 

 

A lot of the time, I didn't really get that sense in Inquisition. When people made bad decisions, it didn't feel like natural extensions of their characters, but because Cory had to get power somehow. In addition to making them look bad, it sort of undermined any threat Cory might pose - he didn't seem like a brilliant schemer to me, but someone who was only succeeding because he was an idiot surrounded by bigger idiots. Sure, he was the brightest of his peers - but being the brightest kindergartner isn't much of an achievement, much less of a threat.

 

As for Solas hitting the reset button because of all the conflict - I'm not sure those are his reasons, given that, well, pettiness and conflict are part of human nature. From his own experience, he knows that magic and immortality won't solve that. He even acknowledges the inevitability of corruption and decay. I think it'd be interesting if you could ever point that out to him - his mistakes aren't "mistakes" just because they lead to corruption, because every system leads to corruption eventually.

 

...Although, this does remind me of an interesting theory I heard a few days ago. Not that I entirely buy this theory, mind, but I thought it'd be a pretty interesting idea for the writers to explore - anyway, theory was that the Qunari are planning something that's basically the exact opposite of Solas' plan. He intends to tear down the Veil and restore magic - the Qunari, in contrast, intend to somehow separate the Fade and the physical world further, making everyone Tranquil, and finally stripping them of that pettiness and emotion that the Arishok so reviled in 2. 

 

That could give you this perfect world where people aren't so caught up in themselves. Certainly, I think it'd be a neat idea for BioWare to mess around with.

[midnight tea]

I agree that from a story perspective, it makes more sense to me personally to go to the mages ... unless you never go to Redcliffe at all and go straight to Therinfal Redoubt which is possible because you can go directly there without even unlocking In Hushed Whispers.

 

And I am fairly torn on this because I greatly prefer siding with the mages but I also think that Calpernia is a more interesting character and I like that you learn more of Cory's motivations from her questline.  I'd have loved to do both but of course you can't for ... reasons.

 

Well, we can't eat a cookie and have a cookie too I wish there was more Calpernia (though I think we'll see her in DA4 no matter what side we pick, since we never see her die...) or more personal Samson quest on mage's side, but I usually can't help but to go for the mages.

 

As for "reasons"... I can't say I dislike that. One one hand it's sad that we sacrifice one side for another, but - well... - people complain about seeming lack of harder choices in Inquisition, while this is exactly one of the harder choices, that likely parallels a harder choice waiting for us in potential DA4: whatever side you pick, you doom another.

 

From an in story perspective I can see why we didn't manage to secure both alliances - for one, they were a side of the fight we picked, another - we spent resources trying to secure one alliance and likely had to rebuild them prior to any larger endeavor (likely one of reasons Corypheus caught us so off-guard), and of course there was a matter of Breach that Inquisitor at that time should at last have attempted to close first.

 

It really depends on how you RP your Inquisitor. My canon Lavellan distrusted the rebel mages and never went to Redcliffe. 

 

I know some people distrust mages, plus some Inkys may deem closing the Breach a priority above others - I'm just saying that from an in-story perspective we have more reasons to investigate or do something about Redcliffe, aside form the alliance.

[Elessara]

Well, we can't eat a cookie and have a cookie too I wish there was more Calpernia (though I think we'll see her in DA4 no matter what side we pick, since we never see her die...) or more personal Samson quest on mage's side, but I usually can't help but to go for the mages.

 

As for "reasons"... I can't say I dislike that. One one hand it's sad that we sacrifice one side for another, but - well... - people complain about seeming lack of harder choices in Inquisition, while this is exactly one of the harder choices, that likely parallels a harder choice waiting for us in potential DA4: whatever side you pick, you doom another.

 

From an in story perspective I can see why we didn't manage to secure both alliances - for one, they were a side of the fight we picked, another - we spent resources trying to secure one alliance and likely had to rebuild them prior to any larger endeavor (likely one of reasons Corypheus caught us so off-guard), and of course there was a matter of Breach that Inquisitor at that time should at last have attempted to close first.

 

 

I know some people distrust mages, plus some Inkys may deem closing a priority above others - I'm just saying that from an in-story perspective we have more reasons to investigate or do something about Redcliffe, aside form the alliance.

 

I'm not actually upset about not being able to both even though I would have liked to.  And it does make sense that these two sides are at war and choosing one means the other simply will not help you.  Or, things happen because you were busy dealing with one side.  I just ... want to have a cookie and eat it too!  ;D

[midnight tea]

I'm not actually upset about not being able to both even though I would have liked to.  And it does make sense that these two sides are at war and choosing one means the other simply will not help you.  Or, things happen because you were busy dealing with one side.  I just ... want to have a cookie and eat it too!  ;D

 

I think we can safely assume that everyone might get a bite of Calpernia cookie in the next chapter Wold be cool if she wasn't just an NPC, but a companion perhaps, though given that she's built up as a revolutionary who wants to end slavery in Tevinter I think she may be a side in the conflict. Mae's and Dorian's Lucerni is what is trying to change the country from the top - Calpernia may as well be someone who tries to change it from the bottom.

[Cee]

Hmm...if that's the case, I think BioWare did a much better job of telling that story in DA2 than in DA:I.  There's not even a villain in Act 1 of DA:I.  It's just Hawke and company trying to survive in a city that was founded on the principle of stepping on the people below.  The Arishok and Meredith are villains, but they too are products of their circumstances and their own failings.  Had things been different, they might not have been bad guys, or at least not as directly opposed to Hawke.

 

I really liked this reading of DA2 as a story of immigration and related experiences and struggles. http://femhype.com/2...ation-identity/

 

But I agree that DA2 did a better job of small-scale bleakness. DAI was meant to feel hopeful.

[drosophila]

I know some people distrust mages, plus some Inkys may deem closing a priority above others - I'm just saying that from an in-story perspective we have more reasons to investigate or do something about Redcliffe, aside form the alliance.

 

I am 100% for mage freedom personally and they did make it more challenging to justify why you're allying with the templars. 

 

But in-story perspective is actually exactly what makes it possible to justify that choice. As players we are these omniscient beings who have all the meta knowledge and can use the pure logic of how the situation stands. And one can play such a character too as well. IDK, maybe I'm weird, or maybe I'm less weird than I think, but I like playing these limited foolish people with their own biases who wouldn't always make the logically obvious choice. I didn't end up with a perfect world state in either playthrough: my canon sucks from my perspective, and even my do-goody Andrastian who tries to be the perfect Inquisitor enabled Cullen's lyrium addiction and he died.

 

And I love it that the story as written does allow one to do these things that defy logic. Your Inky can claim they're the Herald of Andraste against all evidence to the contrary, for example. 

[drosophila]

I think we can safely assume that everyone might get a bite of Calpernia cookie in the next chapter

 

I really hope so! I crave more of the Calpernia frilly cake!

[Sable Rhapsody]

But in-story perspective is actually exactly what makes it possible to justify that choice. As players we are these omniscient beings who have all the meta knowledge and can use the pure logic of how the situation stands. And one can play such a character too as well. IDK, maybe I'm weird, or maybe I'm less weird than I think, but I like playing these limited foolish people with their own biases who wouldn't always make the logically obvious choice. I didn't end up with a perfect world state in either playthrough: my canon sucks from my perspective, and even my do-goody Andrastian who tries to be the perfect Inquisitor enabled Cullen's lyrium addiction and he died.

 

I miss my Warden.  She was such a delightful screw-up  An excellent example of a fundamentally decent, brave, badass person who should not be in charge of anything ever.

[Cee]

I love that one bit in In Hushed Whispers where you see the companions in their cells and experience how they deal with the horrible future. It says a lot about each character.

In everything else Champions of the Just is much more enjoyable to me. The parts with Cole give me all the feels. Ser Barris is awesome and they really worked hard to make you understand and feel for the templars, most of whom came across as honorable people who want to do good, but are led astray by corruption and leadership.

Then after the alliance Calpernia's arc was much more interesting to me than Samson's. I find her a fascinating character. (So is Samson, but they really should have shown that more in the game IMO)

 

I find Samson such a tragic figure and also appreciated the link to Cullen that siding with the mages also provides. And Samson's story is so heartbreaking. His addiction, Maddox, the way the Chantry abuses the templars and mages, all of it making him seek out better. The way he looks after Maddox, and Maddox' loyalty to the end. So many feels.

 

I've only read about Calpernia's role and haven't played through it yet, but while she has an interesting history, and I would not be surprised to see her in the next game at all, given people's response and the whole Tevinter thing, I feel so much better about siding with the mages, both for the whole importance of Redcliffe midnight tea expanded on, and the mission itself.

 

I've done Champions of the Just just once so far and that thing where you have to run up the sections and then run back into the room and protect the templars, then run back and do your thing, that was kind of annoying gameplay. The only real plus to me is Cole. I loved his intro there. But I also love his intro at the gate. Coming up to warn and help.

 

I, as a player, don't really have any reason to support the templars as long as they serve the Chantry and the Chantry doesn't undergo serious reform. This is also not surprising that my Divine wound up being softened Leliana.

 

It's as Solas says, I think in a banter with Vivienne - the potential for danger isn't enough to effectively imprison and abuse people. If someone is a murderer, you deal with them individually.

 

 

 

[drosophila]

I miss my Warden. She was such a delightful screw-up An excellent example of a fundamentally decent, brave, badass person who should not be in charge of anything ever.

Same as my Inky. I'll miss her so much in DA4.

But I also really loved my husband's A**quizitor. That guy was a jerk. He was mean to everyone because he enjoyed being mean. Iron Bull was the only person he felt something resembling genuine affection for.

But he made all the "right" choices because they seemed sensible and the guy was there to do the job right, not coddle these emotional wrecks. His world state was awesome.

He ended up unlocking Solas' friendship scene, btw.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Same as my Inky. I'll miss her so much in DA4.

 

They could always go the dual protagonist route.  Never say never until they announce something!

 

 

I, as a player, don't really have any reason to support the templars as long as they serve the Chantry and the Chantry doesn't undergo serious reform. This is also not surprising that my Divine wound up being softened Leliana.

 

It's as Solas says, I think in a banter with Vivienne - the potential for danger isn't enough to effectively imprison and abuse people. If someone is a murderer, you deal with them individually.

 

After reading Asunder and playing DA:I both ways, I came to the conclusion that the Chantry was really the root of the problem.  Which makes me very, very tempted to chuck RP to the winds and inflict hardened Leliana on the Chantry   Sure, it might not go well, but I really want to serve the institution a good, old-fashioned helping of fire and steel.

[midnight tea]

They could always go the dual protagonist route.  Never say never until they announce something!

 

I'm all for dual-protagonist, it's such a cool concept that could be used really effectively depending on where they want to go with the story.

 

Personally I really wouldn't mind if we had a route in which we managed to turn our old protagonist into a villain, or at least something akin of a villain, or perhaps someone misunderstood, no less than, say, Solas is. Switching POV from one character to another can either really mess with our own perspective - or perhaps widen it, depending on what is done. And I can certainly see it wreck havoc to Protagonist-Centered Morality (http://tvtropes.org/...enteredMorality)

 

And even if we, say, don't make many ventures into smashing some of our biases surrounding following just one protagonist, it also offers expanding the story into something that at least seems grander - simply because, being free from sticking to just one POV, we'd be able to venture to different times or places, to observe events happening somewhere else.

[Cee]

I really, really want a direct sequel and not dual protagonist. I just want to play our Inquisitors again.

 

But I doubt it will happen since they always want to add new companions and new romances and such and people want and expect this. So I expect someone new.

 

But if I could play the whole thing with her again, I would.