153429 réponses à ce sujet

[FernRain]

If the moon symbolizes Mythal, is it possible that the artifact literally shows Ghilan'nain "stomping down on" Mythal, i.e. being responsible for her murder? There definitely is something weird going on with that elf, what with all her strange experimenting and giving "the sinner" wings. Perhaps Ghilan'nain and Andruil were friends/lovers/sisters and she didn't take kindly to what Mythal did to Andruil?

 

Could be!

 

 

On another note (and this gives me a lot of headache) if most of the Dalish stories are falsehoods and/or exaggerations, why do the gods in the murals at the Temple of Mythal still use symbols that are connected to these stories? For example, Falon'Din in his mural has what looks very much like a shepherds staff despite the story of him guiding the dead through the veil being something obviously created after the Evanuris disappeared. Yet the temple can't be from a time far after the gods disappearance, as we have Abelas there and also codex entries that indicate that the temple was used for some time before their disappearance.

 

All of the others seem to match up so I'm guessing Falon'din's will still be somewhat accurate. Maybe he lead spirits and elves around the Fade.

 

 

Fun fact, Dirthamen and Falon'din are the only ones with black eyes.

 

Also what do you guys keep referencing? Is it one of the books? I have a couple but haven't had a chance to start reading yet. I do not have Asunder though. Is that the one with all the Solas hints?

 

I've been quoting the dragon age wiki mostly. It has sources a lot of the time.

[FernRain]

And here's a pressing issue: who sleeps under the Undercroft? And how do they get in there!?

 

[NightSymphony]

Art

 

Modern AU Professor Solas and Student Lavellan NSFW

http://ladytheirin.d...rn-AU-583752580

 

Solas and Lavellan Hesitation

http://ladytheirin.d...ssion-583752219

 

Lavellan and the Dread Wolf Tarot

http://kaschra.devia...-card-583716156

[Riot Inducer]

As a serious arachnophobe....no thank you. 
 

Yeah, there are a LOT of things in Dragon Age I do not want to experience in VR. I don't even wan't to imagine the terror of The Descent in VR. 

[FernRain]

I was playing Inquisition at 3 a.m and got the nagging urge to draw those harpy things from that theory I had:

Spoiler

What if those things are servants of Razikale, and they hunted Dirthamen's secrets? Since Razikale (Dragon of mystery) is quite the equivalent to Dirthamen (Keeper of Secrets). Those in the Lost Temple of Dirthamen were worried about something coming after them once Dirthamen had been locked away:

Spoiler

DA post

 

It's 5:40 a.m.. Please, please Maker: let me dream about Dirthamen tonight .

[Arshes Nei]

Another thing that lends credence to Dirthamen and Falon'Din being more than just brothers, is that there are codex's that hint of no family connection between them and that very old writings did not call them one or the other. Instead they were 'Falon'Din's Reflection' or 'Dirthamen's Shadow'. That to me is highly suspicious that they were/are one complete soul

 

http://dragonage.wik...Twins_in_Shadow

[TheyCallMeBunny]

I watched the part where Solas talks about Falon'Din on YouTube, and now I have some questions:

 

1. Solas says that "Mythal rallied the gods, once the shadow of Falon'Din's hunger stretched across her own people" - but who was Mythal's people? People worshiping her, or the people in her temple? Did the gods have specific cities or regions where they ruled? And why were the other gods so slow to react if he was killing their people? Or is it possible that Falon'Din was trying to amass followers outside the Elven kingdom? 

2. Solas also says that "Falon'Din only surrendered when his brethren bloodied him in his own temple" - this might be a bit nitpicky of me, but why does he say "brethren" and not "kin"? He also does something similar in Trespasser where he said the generals became "kings" - why not say "regents" or "rulers"? It might be an oversight of the writers, or because English is not my first language, but it seems rather odd when we know at least four of the Evanuris were women. Is it possible it's some kind of clue to something? Probably reading way to much into it, bit it does bug me a bit. 

3. When Solas says "One does not lightly kill a god" he emphasizes the word "lightly". How do you interpret that? It feels like it could be both interpreted in terms of the significance of the action or the difficulty of it.

 

 

[ladyiolanthe]

*snip*

 

Equally interesting is the lack of Elgar'nan iconography where Mythal iconography is found.  If she and Elgar'nan were truly married, you'd think it would be Elgar'nan whose statues were everywhere Mythal's were.  You would not think that the son's statues would be by the mother's, unless he were widely viewed as a child.  But no, he's either the equal or the protector.  And that means we may need to revise our Dalish-crafted notions that Mythal and Elgar'nan were a unit, and instead view Mythal and Solas as a couple.  Elgar'nan may still have been the top leader, but it's likely that, if Solas had become a hated figure, the Dalish may have rewritten history to better suit their needs.  Elgar'nan had a temper, but he also didn't destroy the world.

 

Unless, of course, he did, and that's why we hear so little about Elgar'nan...  Because Mythal did something to him.

 

*snip*

 

Falon'din was most likely not just his twin, but literally the two were either the same kind of spirit, or the same spirit.  Remember Knowledge from Trespasser?  It claims it's one spirit, but it exists in many places at once.  Dirthamen and Falon'din could be the same.  

 

*snip*

 

Anyone else wishing Solas had told us a little bit more?  Or a lot more?  I want to know just what happened back then!  Of course his is only one perspective...

 

For that matter, is it not possible that Mythal and Elgar'nan were the same spirit? We know that Vengeance and Justice are two extremes of the same spirit spectrum, thanks to Awakening and DA2.

 

And yes, there's a lot of things I/my Inquisitor would have loved to be able to ask Solas at the end of Trespasser!  

[ladyiolanthe]

On another note (and this gives me a lot of headache) if most of the Dalish stories are falsehoods and/or exaggerations, why do the gods in the murals at the Temple of Mythal still use symbols that are connected to these stories? For example, Falon'Din in his mural has what looks very much like a shepherds staff despite the story of him guiding the dead through the veil being something obviously created after the Evanuris disappeared. Yet the temple can't be from a time far after the gods disappearance, as we have Abelas there and also codex entries that indicate that the temple was used for some time before their disappearance.   

 

Remember that the Dalish have spent centuries searching for ancient elven culture. They are basically like archaeologists, using deductive reasoning and their imaginations to try to puzzle out something intangible from its material remains, which would include mosaics and murals and things. So they may well have seen that symbolism and misinterpreted it, like the 'snake archaeologists' in this cartoon:

 

http://orig10.devian...tomiccheese.jpg

 

As to why Falon'din's symbols are the same, according to the Dalish (via the WoT Vol. 1), Falon'din "guided elders on journeys of enlightenment in their long sleep and later carried them beyond the Veil in death." I'd posit that this is another one of those things the Dalish got half-right. While the elves were immortal, Falon'din would accompany them in uthenara.  When the Veil was created, he guided them into death. Either way he is still something of a shepherd or guide so the crook is a fitting symbol for him.

[FernRain]

I can't flipping sleep now, rargh!

 

I like that Mythal = Elgar'nan theory. Justice and vengeance like Anders. Maybe Flemeth's drive for vengeance corrupted Mythal.

 

And the Falon'din murals were likely 'correct' because they were in the temple of Mythal with the other ancient Elves. He could have been a guide in the Crossroads, making paths like we did with those mysterious red eggs.

[ladyiolanthe]

I can't flipping sleep now, rargh!

 

I like that Mythal = Elgar'nan theory. Justice and vengeance like Anders. Maybe Flemeth's drive for vengeance corrupted Mythal.

 

And the Falon'din murals were likely 'correct' because they were in the temple of Mythal with the other ancient Elves. He could have been a guide in the Crossroads, making paths like we did with those mysterious red eggs.

 

Sorry!

 

I can't shake the feeling that duality was a hallmark of the Evanuris, if not all pre-Veil elves. I lean towards the idea that all elves, not just Solas, were once spirits who became very complex (like Cole, who certainly is more complicated than a Compassion/Cruelty binary) and took physical form. Maybe the natural evolution of "wisp" to "spirit" to "powerful spirit" to "something more" is to take a physical form? We know that wisps can grow into something greater, because when Solas comes back from mourning his friend Wisdom, we find out that he visited the place in the Fade where she used to be, and although she was no longer there, there were stirrings of something. He suggested that her wisp might become Wisdom again some day, but not the Wisdom he knew.

 

Cole also talks about how necromancy uses wisps, and this prevents the wisps from growing into more complex spirits.

 

 

Putting the rest behind a spoiler tag because it's a lot of writing and pictures... 

 

Spoiler

 

Mythal might have been one of the first spirits to reach this extremely complex stage and take a physical form, and then she helped, or encouraged others, like Solas, to take a physical form. She might not always have done this altruistically, though (hence the suggestion that she once had Solas bound to her).

 

A number of Solas' murals show two versions of him: the spirit on the left and the physical on the right.(see this and this. )

 

Even his first tarot card hints subtly at the spirit on the left (his robe floats upwards) and the physical on the right (his robe hangs down).

 

Various other depictions of him show the humanoid and the wolf, either black or white version (see this) and, of course, his romance and end-of-game unromanced tarot cards.

 

 

 

 

Then there's the codex from the Vir Dirthara about ancient elves making love  (see this) - it seems like they could freely switch from spirit to physical form. I suspect that once the Veil was created, this was no longer possible, and that is, in part, what Solas is lamenting when he says that the Veil took everything from the elves, even themselves (the Veil cut them off from being fully aware of their spirit selves). Probably the ability to switch from physical to spirit and back again was linked to elven immortality, too?

 

I think it's possible that the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones might also be shared spirits - the Forgotten Ones being the worst end of the spirit spectrums, so to speak, aspects of themselves that the Evanuris didn't want to deal with. The Evanuris might have intentionally split that part of themselves (the way that Mythal can apparently split parts of her spirit off, with all her horcruxes), except, perhaps for Solas who kept both Pride and Wisdom. And maybe that is where the idea that he is kin to both came from?  

 

The apparent ambiguity of the ancient elven language might also suggest that they had dual natures, since language is a reflection of culture. Double speak would come naturally to a dual-natured being. Maybe Solas' seemingly effortless ability to convey more than one meaning with almost everything he says also points to this duality?

 

 

I don't know - I'm sure I'm missing a lot and I may well be totally off-base, but it's interesting to think about. Ugh, BioWare! I'm going to keep thinking about all this for the next 3-4 years, in all likelihood.  

[FernRain]

It's my own fault for oversleeping and my brain going wild before sleep XD.

 

If there's a duality, Ghilan'nain and Andruil work together. Andruil hunted her creatures.

 

The Forgotten Ones.. I don't know if they're that. They seemed to be warring? Well they were in the void (which I think is a titan). Solas could walk between them and the creators, maybe literally. He could walk in the spirity places like the Crossroads, and the physical places like within a titan.

 

I'm a bit past it with tiredness, and can't quote on this tablet. So excuse me .

[Cerulione]

Hi everyone, if anyone reads Feynite's Looking Glass... I drew a fanart although that's not Solas but an OC. Putting it under cut because not Solas ^^

 

Spoiler

Feynite's Uthvir, the Red Hunter. Andruil's highest rank servant

 

 

Sorry for the spam

[FernRain]

Hi everyone, if anyone reads Feynite's Looking Glass... I drew a fanart although that's not Solas but an OC. Putting it under cut because not Solas ^^

 

Spoiler

Feynite's Uthvir, the Red Hunter. Andruil's highest rank servant

 

 

Sorry for the spam

 

Don't you apologize for non-spam! I like your style. I hope I develop some sort of style. Good on you .

[FernRain]

http://sarks-dragona...75/solas-please

 

Don't ask, just click.

[Arshei]

[midnight tea]

random thoughts from drawing pit: is it bad that when I see Solas' puffy sleeves in the portrait on the right from this image:

 

Spoiler

... all I can think of are these pants?

[Ardent Blossom]

http://sarks-dragona...75/solas-please

 

Don't ask, just click.

With the bad news about Bowie this morning I was having a pretty miserable day. This helped immeasurably. Thank you.

 

Also, I was reading through the last couple pages of posts. I have to say, I'm not personally keen on Solas and Mythal as an "item." I can conveniently find other explanations for evidence that might support their romantic entanglement...for the most part. Some of it is pretty hard to ignore though, especially Solas' flying off the handle with the Evanuris killed Mythal and the whole Andraste is Mythal and Solas is Shartan and Shartan and Andraste were lovers thing (as Thedas religions are the different versions of the same story). I wonder if anyone has picked apart the theory that Solas is actually Elgar'nan. Solas did sort of destroy the world, and his magic possibly turns people to ash as Elgar'nan's did. Also, originally a power amulet for Solas was located in front of the Bastion of Elgar'nan. Certainly Elgar'nan's connection to vengeance doesn't totally fit. You all are much more up on lore and The World of Thedas than I am. Thoughts?

 

As far the dragon and wolf statues appearing together so often...I'm inclined to think of at least some of the wolf statues we see are not specifically Solas. The elvhen venerated wolves (see things like A Plea from a Warrior to the Spirits & The Knight's Guardian codex entries) as Fereldans do mabari. Not all mabari statues in Thedas are Andraste's dog, are they? Perhaps Mythal's servants/soldiers were referred to as or symbolized by wolves?  Thoughts?

[midnight tea]

With the bad news about Bowie this morning I was having a pretty miserable day. This helped immeasurably. Thank you.

 

Also, I was reading through the last couple pages of posts. I have to say, I'm not personally keen on Solas and Mythal as an "item." I can conveniently find other explanations for evidence that might support their romantic entanglement...for the most part. Some of it is pretty hard to ignore though, especially Solas' flying off the handle with the Evanuris killed Mythal and the whole Andraste is Mythal and Solas is Shartan and Shartan and Andraste were lovers thing (as Thedas religions are the different versions of the same story). I wonder if anyone has picked apart the theory that Solas is actually Elgar'nan. Solas did sort of destroy the world, and his magic possibly turns people to ash as Elgar'nan's did. Also, originally a power amulet for Solas was located in front of the Bastion of Elgar'nan. Certainly Elgar'nan's connection to vengeance doesn't totally fit. You all are much more up on lore and The World of Thedas than I am. Thoughts?

 

As far the dragon and wolf statues appearing together so often...I'm inclined to think of at least some of the wolf statues we see are not specifically Solas. The elvhen venerated wolves (see things like A Plea from a Warrior to the Spirits & The Knight's Guardian codex entries) as Fereldans do mabari. Not all mabari statues in Thedas are Andraste's dog, are they? Perhaps Mythal's servants/soldiers were referred to as or symbolized by wolves?  Thoughts?

 

IMO if we asked Solas about relationship with Mythal, he'd answer similarly to how Leliana answered when we asked about her relationship with Justinia:

 

"You're asking if we were lovers. Typical... I was devoted to her, therefore it must be romantic. Love is common. Love is simple. My bond with her was something greater - she was a sister, a mother, a teacher. So, to answer your question: yes, it was more than friendship."

 

Also, I have to agree with Leliana sneering at the idea that anything going beyond friendship is usually assumed to be a romantic involvement. Not that I am vehemently against such notion - depending on what it's done with the story, if this is what happened between the two, it wouldn't make the story less interesting for me, still - such assessment is  just so... typical, that I'm looking forward to them making the story even more interesting.

 

Also, seeing how Solas reacts to the death of his spirit friend I don't see how him flying off the handle with Evanuris would only if they were lovers - nor I think flying of the handle is only reserved for lovers. It could happen as well if it was a mother figure, a really good friend or simply a person he looked up to, who also happened to be instrumental to his plans and her death meant both the ruination of them all, as well as guaranteed that Evanuris would be unstoppable.

[FernRain]

With the bad news about Bowie this morning I was having a pretty miserable day. This helped immeasurably. Thank you.

 

Aye, it was strange news. But I'm glad you liked it! I saw it on the DA reddit sub.

 

I wonder if anyone has picked apart the theory that Solas is actually Elgar'nan. Solas did sort of destroy the world, and his magic possibly turns people to ash as Elgar'nan's did. Also, originally a power amulet for Solas was located in front of the Bastion of Elgar'nan. Certainly Elgar'nan's connection to vengeance doesn't totally fit. You all are much more up on lore and The World of Thedas than I am. Thoughts?

 

I don't know, it sounds interesting but I don't think Solas has an anger problem like Elgar'nan.

[ladyiolanthe]

I don't know, it sounds interesting but I don't think Solas has an anger problem like Elgar'nan.

 

Well, he isn't like Kylo Ren, but he was completely ready and willing to incinerate the mages who summoned Wisdom and not think twice about it. Mind you, he might not see them as people. 

[FernRain]

I just heard Cole crying out after getting caught on fire and AH it hurt my heart. The poor wee cinnamon roll sounded like a baby.

[FernRain]

Well, he isn't like Kylo Ren, but he was completely ready and willing to incinerate the mages who summoned Wisdom and not think twice about it. Mind you, he might not see them as people. 

 

I thought of that too but.. my thoughts just kinda went mush at that point. Was that before the balcony scene? Cause that seems to be when he admits the Inquisitor is real.

 

I dunno, it seems like it would be a hassle to create this whole 'other god' equivalent. And if Solas was Mythal's 'sword arm', that doesn't line up with the lore of Elgar'nan passing judgement-duty to Mythal.

 

If it is the case, that all the evanuris were matched up: that'd explain why we've heard basically nothing about June and Sylaise.

• Falon'din = Dirthamen,
• Ghilan'nain = Andruil,
• Fen'Harel = Elgar'nan,
• Sylaise = June,

Or:

• Mythal = Elgar'nan.

[midnight tea]

Well, he isn't like Kylo Ren, but he was completely ready and willing to incinerate the mages who summoned Wisdom and not think twice about it. Mind you, he might not see them as people. 

 

Considering that the mages killed one of his oldest (and only) friends, his plans are in shambles, and they're all scrambling to get the world from the brink AND Solas is in the middle of emotional turmoil about not-people actually being people (we do't get the balcony scene without completing that quest and certain level of approval) I'm not surprised he lashed out.

 

Still, it's hard to compare it to Elgar'nan, who is usually described as if he has some really serious anger issues. Considering that Fen'Harel and not Elgar'nan is the one that guards Mythal and seeing how Mythal is the one who calms her husband and is generally considered a reasonable and level-headed one, I seriously doubt she'd stand Solas' company or services much if he was more similar to her husband in disposition, rather than to her.

 

No - Solas may be passionate and somewhat temperamental under all that self-control, and it might be that he was much more hot-blooded and cocky when he was younger, but I don't see him being anywhere close to a terror Elgar'nan seems to be.

[ladyiolanthe]

 

I thought of that too but.. my thoughts just kinda went mush at that point. Was that before the balcony scene? Cause that seems to be when he admits the Inquisitor is real.

 

I dunno, it seems like it would be a hassle to create this whole 'other god' equivalent. And if Solas was Mythal's 'sword arm', that doesn't line up with the lore of Elgar'nan passing judgement-duty to Mythal.

 

If it is the case, that all the evanuris were matched up: that'd explain why we've heard basically nothing about June and Sylaise.

• Falon'din = Dirthamen,
• Ghilan'nain = Andruil,
• Fen'Harel = Elgar'nan,
• Sylaise = June,

Or:

• Mythal = Elgar'nan.

 

 

 

Considering that the mages killed one of his oldest (and only) friends, his plans are in shambles, and they're all scrambling to get the world from the brink AND Solas is in the middle of emotional turmoil about not-people actually being people (we do't get the balcony scene without completing that quest and certain level of approval) I'm not surprised he lashed out.

 

Still, it's hard to compare it to Elgar'nan, who is usually described as if he has some really serious anger issues. Considering that Fen'Harel and not Elgar'nan is the one that guards Mythal and seeing how Mythal is the one who calms her husband and is generally considered a reasonable and level-headed one, I seriously doubt she'd stand Solas' company or services much if he was more similar to her husband in disposition, rather than to her.

 

No - Solas may be passionate and somewhat temperamental under all that self-control, and it might be that he was much more hot-blooded and cocky when he was younger, but I don't see him being anywhere close to a terror Elgar'nan seems to be.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that Mythal is Elgar'nan's counterpart, myself (as suggested in a post on the previous page), and that there are four Evanuris pairs, with Solas being the odd man out. I wasn't really being serious when contrasting Solas with Kylo Ren.