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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#147301
Ellawynn

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Snip

 

I get what you're saying, and it mostly makes sense - magic is simply a different form of technology to them. Yeah, that works for me.

 

But, I think there's two issues we keep running into with it. The first is that we're using a definition of "science" and "technology" which is highly specific, and probably not being employed by others in the conversation. You've already had to explain to me that technology and science would be different for them, because they have different rules. But for some, when we think of magic, we think of things and feats that are not possible by our understanding of our world. Whether they're possible by the rules of the setting in question is somewhat irrelevant (And pretty moot, since obviously they're possible, though whether they adhere to the rules or not is another question) because we are limited by our perspective, and our perspective tells us that shooting fireballs out your fingerstips is magic, and any creative work that utilizes such a thing is fantasy. I mean - it's fiction. Everything about it, we create and we define. It's inherently bound by our perspective, and our understanding will take precedence over the in-universe understanding. Whether or not it's magical in-universe doesn't matter as much as whether or not it's magical out-of-universe - that's what many will use to draw the line between sci-fi and fantasy. 

 

For instance, I was in the process of drafting up an essay in reply before I realized that I just... wasn't using the same definition as you. You've quoted a famous author guy, so let me quote on in return, as an example of what I considered scientific - "reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." If it disappears when you stop believing in it, it's not science. Now, it's not necessarily magic either, but I'd consider science to be something constant, something that, if everyone in the world vanished, it'd still exist. It's not bound by perception, it simply is.

 

If you told me that that's only science under our definition and rules, a world with different rules would have different definitions, I'd say you're right. But I'd also say neither definition's really wrong, and at best all it'll get you is an argument of semantics - it just comes down to what perspective you're looking at it with.

 

Issue two - it ignores (Well, "ignores" isn't really right the word. It acknowledges this, but maybe stops too short.) the fact that, really, the division between magic and science - and by extension, between fantasy and sci-fi - is a pretty arbitrary one. "Magic" and "science" are often just by-words for "thing that makes the plot happen," dressed in different clothes and using different names, but the same essential story device, supplying all the neat gadgets and cool superpowers. Whether the scholars in the setting think scientifically or not doesn't matter as much as whether they call themselves mages or try to slip by the radar with science-y sounding words like "biotics." Star Wars, for instance - the Force is basically space magic. Don't "midochlorians" me, it's goddamn space magic. And the eluvians - they're just teleporters, basically. Make them a shiny chrome pad on the ground that shoots beams of light and it wouldn't look out of place on the Enterprise. If you're looking for a longer essay, I've always considered the Fade (And similar "magic realm that exists on a different level of reality") to basically be a fantasy version of outer space. 

 

But the wider consumer base still find fantasy and sci-fi to not only be mutually exclusive, but inherently opposed. I think that's mostly where the idea that magic and technology are at odds comes from - because we consider magic to be the core of fantasy, science to be the core of sci-fi. If you started having technology and science, then you'd be sci-fi, and by common thinking, you can't be fantasy if you're sci-fi. I think we'll see more and more works that question this division (Shadowrun, Dishonored, Full Metal Alchemist, basically the entire steampunk genre, along with more niche genres like Weird West and Lovecraftian Horror.), but currently they're polar opposites. Magic and science carry the baggage of their whole genre -  arguing that a mage is basically a scientist is shabbier clothes, while true, ignores that "mage" = "fantasy," and "scientist" = "sci-fi." It discards the context of those words and what they mean in the wider scheme of the story they feature in.

 

It's an extremely arbitrary division, but it also holds a lot of sway. If we divorce this discussion entirely from the tropes and elements of fiction, then I'd completely agree. 

 

(Also sorry again for the huge wall of text.)

 

Edit: (Actually, after a bit of thought, I think there actually is one aspect of magic that makes it very different from sci-fi science, but explaining my thought in full would take a lot of space and isn't really relevant to the discussion, so, I'll keep quiet on it for now.)


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#147302
FernRain

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Now that we know lyrium is titan's blood, is Valta now using magic like a Templar?

 

I made my Dwarf a Templar for the potential 'Dwarf magic'.



#147303
Brass_Buckles

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Not too pleased with people 'splainin' at me.  I get that science is amazing; as I said, I can be remarkably scientific.  But I like my fantasy to be fantasy, and my sci-fi to be sci-fi, except in those cases like steampunk or, say, Shadowrun, where they're established as working together already.  I get it:  Your opinions are different.  There is no need to explain to me why mine are unequivocally wrong.  In fact, as soon as I got the hint that was the tone the posts were taking, I stopped reading out of irritation.  Condescension tends to make me less likely to care like that.  Much rather talk about Solas.


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#147304
Elessara

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I get what you're saying, and it mostly makes sense - magic is simply a different form of technology to them. Yeah, that works for me.

 

But, I think there's two issues we keep running into with it. The first is that we're using a definition of "science" and "technology" which is highly specific, and probably not being employed by others in the conversation. You've already had to explain to me that technology and science would be different for them, because they have different rules. But for some, when we think of magic, we think of things and feats that are not possible by our understanding of our world. Whether they're possible by the rules of the setting in question is somewhat irrelevant (And pretty moot, ....

 

I included some of the post so you'd know which one I was quoting hehe ..

 

I don't particularly think that fantasy and sci-fi are mutually exclusive and opposed (I know some do) and I don't mind having some of one in the other but they are considered two different genres and I like them for different reasons.  I think that's what it boils down to for a lot of people (I could be wrong) and they don't necessarily want to see a complete merging of the two because each person enjoys each genre for different reasons.  I also agree that it doesn't matter how the people in the setting see it, it's how *we* see it that creates the distinction.



#147305
Elessara

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Not too pleased with people 'splainin' at me.  I get that science is amazing; as I said, I can be remarkably scientific.  But I like my fantasy to be fantasy, and my sci-fi to be sci-fi, except in those cases like steampunk or, say, Shadowrun, where they're established as working together already.  I get it:  Your opinions are different.  There is no need to explain to me why mine are unequivocally wrong.  In fact, as soon as I got the hint that was the tone the posts were taking, I stopped reading out of irritation.  Condescension tends to make me less likely to care like that.  Much rather talk about Solas.

 

I tend to agree although I really don't think Midnight Tea was trying to be condescending.  But we know what science is.  It's all around us, every day.  Magic - what we think of as magic - isn't all around us every day and that's what makes it, er well, magical.  At least to myself at any rate.

 

So, about that Solas ...



#147306
Ardent Blossom

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As for Lavellan's death - Solas says to every approved Inky in Trespasser "The Mark will eventually kill you. Drawing you here gave me a chance to save you... at least for now", which itself implies that either way the Inquisitor may be doomed; be it from some residual Anchor magic or whatever Solas is planning to do.

 

I felt that what Solas said there was intentionally ambiguous. It leaves it open for interpretation, either because they weren't sure where they were going or because they didn't want to give too much away. I got both the interpretations you mentioned, but I'll add one more:

 

Solas removed the mark to save Inky. Inky is no longer in danger from the mark, but she/he is still mortal (meaning she/he is slowly dying).

This is my admittedly super naive interpretation dependent upon the hope that sundering the veil will not outright kill the modern elves.

 

People elsewhere on BSN have seemed fairly confident that the anchor will still kill the Inquisitor even though Solas removed it. You'd think if BioWare intended for the anchor to be deadly and/or if BioWare had no intention of bringing the Inquisitor back for the next game, then they would have just had him/her die as a result of the mark at the end of Trespasser. I'm inclined to believe that either the anchor no longer poses any threat and/or the Inquisitor is coming back. If the mark is still a threat, they wouldn't have your Inquisitor die off screen between games or something. That would be a lost opportunity for drama and irritate a lot of players. IMHO

 

Last, I've been reading a really inventive fic on AO3. It hasn't been getting many comments and such, so I thought I'd mention it here. It's a Solavellan post-Trespasser fic (13 years later) and includes some interesting elven politics (alienage rebellions, Briala etc). There are 4 chapters up. I don't want to give too much away, but here is a linky. In Their Shadows by Lola1b


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#147307
Riot Inducer

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So, about that Solas ...

Came back to DA:I recently and finished up some stuff on my Dwarf rogue playthrough, but  still in the mood for more so perhaps against my better judgement I remade my Iaris Lavellan for a super meta completionist-ish playthrough. She was my first character, Dalsih mage who was all about exploration and uncovering the past. Poor girl never had a chance once Solas started going on about all the stuff he had seen in the fade. 

 

I find it really...strange that I so specifically want to recreate Iaris though. Normally when I replay a BioWare game it's about trying new choices or at the very least a new character class. Not this time, it's like a good book I want to read again.


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#147308
CapricornSun

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Art post. (Just wanted to say... First David Bowie and now Alan Rickman? *sigh* :( )

 

Gorgeous artwork of young Solas with another elf (one of the Evanuris maybe?) by nanananananablr.

 

Lovely sketches of young Solas and Solavellan (NSFW-ish) by kallielef. <3

 

WIP of Solas and Lavellan at the rotunda.

 

Modern AU Vir Lavellan and Solas drawn for the artist's blog's 1 year anniversary.  :)

 

Solavellan Modern AUs: Bakery AU and Starbucks AU.  ^_^

 

Lavellan on Solas' lap.

 

Solas and Lavellan kissing.

 

Fen'Harel Is Not A Morning Person by Fen'Inan. Oooh!  :blush: (NSFW for butts.)


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#147309
NightSymphony

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I'm not a morning person either...but I sure would be if I woke up to that...  :wub:


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#147310
FernRain

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Fen'Harel Is Not A Morning Person by Fen'Inan. Oooh!  :blush: (NSFW for butts.)

 

Maker preserve us! Fen'Inan pls..

 

Now I'm going to bed.

 

TO SLEEP.


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#147311
NightSymphony

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hehehehe

 

solas_in_the_fade_by_fiyasgideon-d9nzeby

http://fiyasgideon.d...-Fade-584478286


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#147312
thaali

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So I ended up scraping my last human mage because she really annoyed me, very close minded, snobby, believed she was the Herald and the best of the best type thing, and so on.

 

Anyways I've got my long play through going that is my Solas romance and the OC my fan-fic is based off.  That one I'm taking really slow and getting all collectibles (songs, bottles, mosaics, so on).  

 

I've now got another one started for when I need a break from the Solas feels and since I started playing I've only romanced Solas.  I mean the first play-through I intended to romance Cullen than Solas opened his stupid elf mouth and ugh it was done.  I've finally managed to stick to my guns and create a human female.

 

So question, sorry for the rambling, who is a good one to romance besides our Solas?  I originally made her for Iron Bull but now I'm debating if I want to go with Cullen.  She is a red-head (Iron Bull :P), human two-handed warrior, fiercely loyal, and well... basically the female human version of Bull in terms of she just likes smashing/killing things and is pretty laid back.  Recommendations?  I really am leaning towards Bull or Cullen.  Sera I am saving because I plan on making her a female Qun'ari



#147313
TheyCallMeBunny

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So question, sorry for the rambling, who is a good one to romance besides our Solas?  I originally made her for Iron Bull but now I'm debating if I want to go with Cullen.  She is a red-head (Iron Bull :P), human two-handed warrior, fiercely loyal, and well... basically the female human version of Bull in terms of she just likes smashing/killing things and is pretty laid back.  Recommendations?  I really am leaning towards Bull or Cullen.  Sera I am saving because I plan on making her a female Qun'ari

 

I've done the Solasmance, Cullenmance, Bullmance and almost finished my Wallmance (is that what you call it?). Here are some of my thoughts:

 

Cullen - A very sweet romance, all sugery and nice... I liked it well enough, but it didn't really give me anything other than fluff. He was similar to the Alistair romance of DA:O but without the humor. So while I enjoyed it it's not the first one I would recommend. But if you feel the need for a reprieve after Solas then this will probably do nicely!

Iron Bull - I loved this romance because it was so much fun! I was a bit skeptical at first, I was under the impression that it was simply a DA-version of Fifty shades of Grey, and although that was partly true there was also so much humor and also tenderness. I think that this is my second favorite romance as of yet in the game.

Blackwall - If you like angst then Blackwall is a nice alternative to Solas! Not as fluffy as the Cullenmance or as fun as the Bullmance, but I liked how the story felt very real in the sense that it wasn't perfect, and I also liked how you could shape the romance into becoming a tale of redemption through love.

 

I have yet to try the ladies, and I've heard great things about Dorian, but I will get to them eventually... ;)


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#147314
midnight tea

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Not too pleased with people 'splainin' at me.  I get that science is amazing; as I said, I can be remarkably scientific.  But I like my fantasy to be fantasy, and my sci-fi to be sci-fi, except in those cases like steampunk or, say, Shadowrun, where they're established as working together already.  I get it:  Your opinions are different.  There is no need to explain to me why mine are unequivocally wrong.  In fact, as soon as I got the hint that was the tone the posts were taking, I stopped reading out of irritation.  Condescension tends to make me less likely to care like that.  Much rather talk about Solas.

 

There's no need to grow irritable and throw accusations of condescension or "splaining" or misinterpreting my tone as something that it isn't, just because we have a disagreement and I think that it's a matter worth debating.

 

I don't use any different tone that I haven't used on this thread countless times on different matters (and I discuss the very same thing with Ellanwynn in different posts and despite our previous disagreements on some matters on this thread we're yet to dismiss our own comments as condescending towards one another) - what you interpret as some form of hostility, is just me delving onto an issue that I find interesting (and I thank you for leaving the hook to begin this discussion), providing a plethora of points to support and explain my POV (as I always do) and perhaps overcompensating a bit the fact that English is not my native language, so I try to be as clear as I can in my points to avoid any misunderstandings stemming from the fact that despite my relative proficiency I think my skill of using the language always feels as if it's somewhat lacking.

 

Truth of a matter is, we don't really disagree that much - the core of your argument is that you don't really want to see technology like the one we have in real world in a world filled with magic. And despite your claims that I've spent all this time "explaining how unequivocally wrong you are" I actually agreed with you that seeing different, magical-based things is generally pretty cool, and if there's actually no sufficient reason for their technology to resemble ours, then it shouldn't be so.

 

The thing I'm contesting here is not the one above, but a general notion (not necessarily yours, it's a rather common notion in fact) that scientific approach or technology stands in direct opposition to things like magic, and that they must - apparently - inherently look and work close to our own... even in a world that is different from our own, has different rules, and therefore necessarily has different scientific findings, laws and developed technologies, including magical ones.

 

All in all, I find worrying about DA's fantasy setting drifting towards traditional depictions of sci-fi or technologies similar to ours as probably unnecessary - that is, unless Bioware grows lazy and just goes the easiest way of copy-pasting our own tech to a world with different rules or we erase magic from Thedas entirely or nearly entirely. I doubt it'll happen in any forseeable future though, seeing what they currently do with the setting and their approach to Elvenhan - a lost, highly advanced civilization with core of their technology relying on presence and scholarly approach to magic.


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#147315
paramitch

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I've done the Solasmance, Cullenmance, Bullmance and almost finished my Wallmance (is that what you call it?). Here are some of my thoughts:

 

Cullen - A very sweet romance, all sugery and nice... I liked it well enough, but it didn't really give me anything other than fluff. He was similar to the Alistair romance of DA:O but without the humor. So while I enjoyed it it's not the first one I would recommend. But if you feel the need for a reprieve after Solas than this will probably do nicely!

Iron Bull - I loved this romance because it was so much fun! I was a bit skeptical at first, I was under the impression that it was simply a DA-version of Fifty shades of Grey, and although that was partly true there was also so much humor and also tenderness. I think that this is my second favorite romance as of yet in the game.

Blackwall - If you like angst then Blackwall is a nice alternative to Solas! Not as fluffy as the Cullenmance or as fun as the Bullmance, but I liked how the story felt very real in the sense that it wasn't perfect, and I also liked how you could shape the romance into becoming a tale of redemption through love.

 

I have yet to try the ladies, and I've heard great things about Dorian, but I will get to them eventually... ;)

 

I completely agree with your assessment of the romances. I started with Bull, because I was moving on from Mass Effect multiple replays (where I was pretty much all paragon-same character-all the time), so I was determined to build a strong, wisecracking, empowered character utterly divorced from me, and who would pick Bull just because they worked. Well, holy cow, they really did. I was surprised at how funny, hot and tender the romance was. The light BDSM elements didn't bother me (headsex is nerdsex, honestly), and I appreciated the fact that Bull asks for consent not once but three separate times. And he was so funny (hilarious) and sweet, ultimately, that I was very happy I invested in this relationship with a character. I was just glad I she'd saved the Chargers. Don't even get me started on where I would've been otherwise (sobbing incoherently for days after "Trespasser" --? Yeah.)

 

On Solas, he is for me the richest and most game-entrenched romance, and while it's often difficult and painful, I adored his romance, character exploration and arc, and found all of them intensely moving. Best of all, "Trespasser" felt oddly like a love letter to Solasmancers, a chase in which we pursue what we think is an adversary only to discover a friend/lover who wants to save us. I mean, I plotz every time after that final mirror. I have watched all permutations so many times. Sigh. Sorry. I'm a total dweeb.

 

On Cullen, I'm just finishing a Cullenmance after resisting for previous gameplays, and while I'm glad I did it (he's so gorgeous, adorable, steadfast, sweet and ... ahem, adorable), it never felt hot to me. Bull's was really interesting to me -- genuinely challenging, hot and slightly unnerving (I am not someone who lives a BSDM life, ahem, overshare). Solas's was equally interesting in a different way, although I found him so freaking hot it was probably best he dumped my Lavellan (who in my alt-fiction take actually lit her curtains on fire after the kiss in the Fade), as they would have probably demolished Skyhold at some point. I mean, sheesh. Sniffle.

 

I don't think Cullen is not-hot. But, it's like, they didn't try. Because he was already so beautiful. So it did remind me of Alistair in DAO as well -- you get all the good stuff up front, and the relationship has (regrettably) nowhere to go. What I LOVED about Bull's was, take away the sex-play and what you have is two friends who go to bed (promising no strings attached) yet somehow end up in real tenderness, caring, passion and love. The relationship progresses bit by bit through the entire game in intimacy and caring. That's so real and modern, and I loved it.


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#147316
Sable Rhapsody

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I have yet to try the ladies, and I've heard great things about Dorian, but I will get to them eventually... ;)

 

I thoroughly enjoyed Dorian's.  It gets feelsy too, though in a different way from Solas.  The feels in the Dorian romance are more understated; Dorian is the master of ninja feels.  


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#147317
Cee

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I had a moment to relate to Solas today, reading this excerpt on people with high sensitivity.

 

Highly sensitive people tend to show heightened awareness to subtle stimuli, process information more thoroughly, and be more reactive to both positive and negative stimuli, the researchers say.

In contrast, the majority of people have comparatively low SPS and pay less attention to subtle stimuli, approach situations more quickly and are not as emotionally reactive.

 

 

I am one of those ancient elves sensitive people. Hmm. *reconsiders the Veil* ;)


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#147318
ladyiolanthe

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I just came back from closing a rift in Emprise du Lion... (I wish).  I visited the ice castles in Edmonton today.  :)

 

12573109_10153290777967256_2140898644680


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#147319
Brass_Buckles

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So I've updated my fic again...  Link here:  Endless Journey on AO3.

 

There's not any Solas in the final few chapters (it has some romance in it but it's not really about romance), but I'm two chapters from the ending of it (unless I'm surprised by myself and I have to write one or two more than expected).  If any of you have been reading it (though I don't flatter myself so highly that I imagine people flock to read my stuff) but if you are, well, it's near the end.  (And also thanks for reading it.)

 

Then I'm going to start on a much more Solas-heavy fic that I'm super excited to start on.  Might also do a goofy not-very-serious, probably short fic involving an Inquisitor who makes a not-so-clever move and... well.  I'll link it if I write it.

 

You know, speaking of Solas, and something I hope I can incorporate into a fic at some point:

 

I think when Solas begins the mural is when he begins to view you as, if not a person per se, at least worthy of respect and being remembered.  Here you are, struggling against impossible odds.  Even if he never directly depicts the Inquisitor, he does paint his/her actions.  Note that Solas doesn't seem to leave frescoes behind of anything that he doesn't consider worth recording.  Even his self portrait may have some significance we may have not quite caught onto, beyond pointing out that "this is Solas."  (For that matter, it almost seems that "Free, Happy Solas Elf" has become free from the big black Pride Wolf, or is shadowed by it.  Could mean something... Could also not mean something.  Could mean that by leaving Mythal he has become something other than the wolf.  It could also mean that the wolf is always with him--a reminder to himself, maybe?)

 

So yeah.  Not just the medium of fresco, which I've discussed before as being a very lasting medium and very tedious to do (so Solas has some serious skills to paint all those straight lines etc. in one go--no repainting unless you want to rework the entire wall!), but even the fact that he painted it at all, shows how meaningful the Inquisitor is to him.  Even if you're not his friend, he wants to record your actions.  Maybe to tell people not to be like you, but still, he thinks you're important!  That means something, right?  Or it should.  And knowing how important the Inquisitor is to Solas may be the key we will need to save him in DA4.


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#147320
ChuChu

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So yeah. Not just the medium of fresco, which I've discussed before as being a very lasting medium and very tedious to do (so Solas has some serious skills to paint all those straight lines etc. in one go--no repainting unless you want to rework the entire wall!), but even the fact that he painted it at all, shows how meaningful the Inquisitor is to him. Even if you're not his friend, he wants to record your actions. Maybe to tell people not to be like you, but still, he thinks you're important! That means something, right? Or it should. And knowing how important the Inquisitor is to Solas may be the key we will need to save him in DA4.

Or, not one to ignore another's suffering and sacrifice, he just wanted to document the tragic and gory tale of how the west was won! You know, a story for all the elves to pass on during their version of Thanksgiving dinner and some such.

kiiiddddddddddddddding!

#147321
CapricornSun

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Art post. (I just watched The Force Awakens and I enjoy it fully. <3)

 

Solas and Lavellan post-Trespasser just staring at each other.

 

Adorable Solas and Lavellan. (I love the colors!)

 

Safely Landed. Adorable Solavellan artwork of Lavellan landing on Solas' desk. :lol:

 

Solas and Lavellan spending time together in the library.

 

How the artist envisioned Solas and Lavellan's first meeting. :P

 

Solas comforts Lavellan by giving her a kiss on the forehead.

 

Solas trying to look cute while Lavellan just looks at him. xD

 

Solas and Lavellan getting a bit frisky in bed. (NSFW-ish?)

 

Some romantic pillow talk about children between Solas and Lavellan. :lol:

 

More Solavellan pillow talk. Solas just wants to sleep. xD

 

"You saw more than most." Sad Solas. :(

 

Portrait of a smiling Solas. Those freckles. <3

 

Solas in his underwear.

 

Sera won't be getting the upper hand here any time soon. xD (Lavellan, Solas, and Sera.)

 

Aicosu Sylar's awesome cosplay of Trespasser Solas! <3


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#147322
NightSymphony

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And some more art :D

 

Concept Solas

http://kallielef.dev...rayal-584683371

 

Sad Solas Sketch

http://ehk-caiito.de...-home-584596020

 

All by Monstertree-Art

 

Forehead kisses

http://monstertree-a...isses-584711334

 

Sad kisses

http://monstertree-a...Sorry-584710908

 

Smut Kisses (a little NSFW)

http://monstertree-a...olate-584710038

 

Hot Chocolate Kisses

http://monstertree-a...olate-584708413

 

 

 

And a sexy Zevran just because

http://funarie.devia...ss-me-584566985


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#147323
NightSymphony

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oh I just noticed...lol..the Hot Chocolate Kisses is a commission for Sunny. :lol:

 

EDIT:  Have some Sunny art for the TOP.

 

Spoiler
http://capricornsun8...nited-540285634


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#147324
CapricornSun

CapricornSun
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oh I just noticed...lol..the Hot Chocolate Kisses is a commission for Sunny. :lol:

 

EDIT:  Have some Sunny art for the TOP.

 

Spoiler
http://capricornsun8...nited-540285634

 

Thanks!  :wub:

 

And yes, both the Hot Chocolate Kisses and the Smut Kisses one actually.  :blush:


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#147325
Cee

Cee
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I just realized DA has a new system where you just put in your birthday instead of having to log in. Didn't see the smut kisses one until just now.

 

:)

 

I have an account, but the password...I'm lazy about it. :P


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