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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#147501
midnight tea

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I have a thought.

 

What if the birth of Humanity was due to the Veil ? What if the slow reduction of magic and the sundering of the Fade caused Humans to exist ?

 

The records we have say that the first humans quite late into Thedas, far after Solas has created the Veil. The first Elves to encounter them were the remnants of the destruction of the Elvhen empire. We do not have any indications or hints of humans or proto-humans existing before the Veil.

 

In a way, doesn't this make Solas the creator of humanity ? Not directly but indirectly since the sundering of the Fade and the real world was his doing ?

 

I know the Maker either doesn't exist or is a powerful Spirit of Faith or the Sun God from ancient Elven legends but technically speaking, shouldn't Solas be the Maker since his actions resulted in the creation, spread and domination of humanity ?

 

What do you think ?

 

Oh, I've had this impression since it was suggested in the main game that there were times either when the Veil was non-existent or different, but there are no human records reaching those times - that impression only grew stronger after Trespasser.

 

It would also explain why Solas doesn't seem to care about elves that much, but rather everyone - oh sure, the modern elves are the last 'truest' echo of how people were before and hence probably most likely to survive the return of the Fade, but humans (and others?) might have 'evolved' magically to accommodate for different, less magical and harsher surroundings they can't mitigate with magic they suddenly found themselves mostly cut from.

 

We have more subtle hints of evidence in some other places as well. Solas does state that "the Veil took everything form the elves - even themselves" and grieves cutting "most people's conscious connection to the Fade" (not just elves) and then there's Sandal's prophecy - the one which many suspect is about Solas and tearing/changing of the Veil - which states that everyone will be back to how they were.

 

Heck, I even have a funny suspicion that Elvenhan was an empire was never gone - it only transformed... to Tevinter :D That those were the elves that are so used to their ways that they cling to them even after they forgot about the past. The kicker is that it doesn't even lie far away from where Arlathan was.

 

 

Still... we do have some tenuous evidence that the human race may be older than the Veil - there are strange pyramids on Par Vollen that are commonly linked to humans living there thousands of years ago. Then there are Brecillian Ruins in DAO that are suggested to be the first hub of elvhen civilization long before the rise of Arlathan, and we find humans and elves living together... with humans even speaking elvhen and apparently enjoying uthenera (the ghost child and woman we meet are humans). Question is how long ago that happened - is it really something from times prior to Arlathan, or was it some sort of enclave where early Tevenes and elves lived for some time in harmony?

 

It could also be that whether someone was human or elf-looking back in times where apparently shapeshifting was common wasn't of any significant consequence at that time - or perhaps it was more connected to some sot of allegiance to some ruler or force? Perhaps the creation of the Veil has "locked" the people in a form they've occupied at that time?

 

Last thing - I've noticed some interesting patterns on Inquisitor starter tarot cards:

 

Spoiler

 

You'll note that all races that are capable of magic have some sort of halo/aura (formed of many small dots) radiating from them - elves have the aura that seems to be radiating the strongest, and also their eyes seem to project light (they see more? Well, they can see better in the dark - and they certainly see more in places like Crossroads). Humans have something of a coarser aura that clings closer to their forms. Strangely enough the Qunari seem to have an aura that appears to be radiating inwards (these don't appear to be tattoos - there are dots on female's clothes and jewelry as well). The only exception from the rule are the dwarves (with the male dwarf being accompanied by rare upturned triangles in the background - likely symbol of Earth/the opposite force to the Fade, symbolized oftentimes by dowturned triangle). Strangely enough, despite dwarven Inquisitors being surfacers, they both have their faces marked by tattoos.


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#147502
Riot Inducer

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Dwarven character customization allows you to use casteless style tattoos as well. In early dialogue with Josephine regarding your history with the Carta you can say you have visited Orzammar or were born there. It's entirely reasonable to be a surfacer dwarf who started out or became casteless, tattoo and all, before coming to the surface. 


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#147503
CapricornSun

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Art post.

 

Beautiful Solavellan tarot card.  :wub:

 

Modern AU Solas and Lavellan hugging in the snow. <3

 

Solas and Lavellan kissing.

 

"...what even, Solas." :lol: Cute chibi Solas and Lavellan.

 

Goodbye Friend. :( (Trespasser Solas and male Trevelyan)

 

Some scenes from the latest chapter of Looking Glass

(Starring Lavellan, Pride, Ghilashim, Uthvir, and Curiosity. :P )


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#147504
Bayonet Hipshot

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*snip*

Still... we do have some tenuous evidence that the human race may be older than the Veil - there are strange pyramids on Par Vollen that are commonly linked to humans living there thousands of years ago. Then there are Brecillian Ruins in DAO that are suggested to be the first hub of elvhen civilization long before the rise of Arlathan, and we find humans and elves living together... with humans even speaking elvhen and apparently enjoying uthenera (the ghost child and woman we meet are humans). Question is how long ago that happened - is it really something from times prior to Arlathan, or was it some sort of enclave where early Tevenes and elves lived for some time in harmony?

 

It could also be that whether someone was human or elf-looking back in times where apparently shapeshifting was common wasn't of any significant consequence at that time - or perhaps it was more connected to some sot of allegiance to some ruler or force? Perhaps the creation of the Veil has "locked" the people in a form they've occupied at that time?

 

Last thing - I've noticed some interesting patterns on Inquisitor starter tarot cards:

 

*snip

 

I doubt that because of the nature of the timeline. See, Solas' creation of the Veil and the subsequent sundering of the Fade weakened the Elvhen empire and the city of Arlathan but it did not destroy it. So imagine Arlathan post-Veil as an empire in severe decline. Not dead, but in decline.

 

I suspect that the humans that the Elves were coexisting with came to them from Par Vollen after the Fade was sundered. They lived in harmony for a time but then grew colder towards each other. Later, conflicts broke out and the rest is history.

 

As for Tevinter, I believe that it is the spiritual successor of Arlathan, except it is a human dominant society (instead of Elven) and the scale is much smaller (by scale I mean power level of the mages).

 

What I am getting at is the fact that the Arlathan that is known by Dalish legends and Tevinter legends is an Arlathan that was in decline. Arlathan was already there and the first humans who encountered the Elves only saw the declining Elvhenan and they thought it was great and powerful. The humans who coexisted with the Elves coexisted with a group of people who are already in decline.

 

Think about it - Legends say of remote Elvhen cities connected to each other by the Eluvians. Yet the first humans only encountered Arlathan and nothing else. No other remote cities. That is because Arlathan was one of the few ancient Elven cities that were left standing prior to the war and prior to the Veil.

 

In essence, the first humans came across Elves that were weakened and dying out, who they thought were great and powerful. Its why Abelas said that the time of the Elves were over by the time the Temple of Mythal shut its doors.

 

Naturally, you can imagine the actual level of splendor and power of pre-Veil Elvhenan. I doubt any human, no matter how strong or powerful, could have fought ancient Elves at their peak during their pre-Veil years without getting their arses kicked.

 

Is it too much to hope for Bioware to show how ancient Elvhenan was actually like ? Either through dreams or visions ?



#147505
FernRain

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Edit: oh, first top of the page, yeah :)

Spoiler

 

Solas looks kind of scary when he smiles :lol:. I think it's his angular face. I've never been able to really picture him with a full grin.



#147506
Solas

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Spoiler

What's your thoughts in this Solas thread? [source]

 

I don't think it is so ◡‿◡ but that's a miniessay of jumblethoughts


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#147507
MCG

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New DA items in the BioWare store. Sera andk Cassandra busts.

The email also highlights the dragon tooth necklace, as well as the Dorian and Bull busts and Battle Nug.

Where is the Solas love?

Actually, no, please continue to postpone the Solas love until I'm no longer completely broke. :P

I was going to buy the Dorian bust seeing as he was my romance however I haven't the money. However seeing that they are doing other characters too I'll wait an see if a Solas one pops up. Gonna have to buy it before all you all do haha.

#147508
Nightspirit

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Solas looks kind of scary when he smiles :lol:. I think it's his angular face. I've never been able to really picture him with a full grin.

 

Omg, I never thought about it before, but now that you mention it... I pictured him with a full grin and got a little scared.

What the hell, brain, why do you do this to me?


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#147509
Barnzi88

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Spoiler

What's your thoughts in this Solas thread? [source]

 

I don't think it is so ◡‿◡ but that's a miniessay of jumblethoughts

 

It kinda made me laugh. I highly doubt that it's even possible, or at all. I mean, Solas didn't body-hop anyone like Flemeth had, he was always himself. 


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#147510
AlleluiaElizabeth

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I know the Maker either doesn't exist or is a powerful Spirit of Faith or the Sun God from ancient Elven legends but technically speaking, shouldn't Solas be the Maker since his actions resulted in the creation, spread and domination of humanity ?

 

Just chiming in to say that I think you may be assuming too much here, as far as the bold goes. Unless you have some evidence that I don't have?

 

 

Some scenes from the latest chapter of Looking Glass

(Starring Lavellan, Pride, Ghilashim, Uthvir, and Curiosity.  :P )

 

I'm still on the theory train that "Ghilashim" is actually young Abelas. Which makes his scenes so much funnier.

 

 

Omg, I never thought about it before, but now that you mention it... I pictured him with a full grin and got a little scared.

What the hell, brain, why do you do this to me?

I'm picturing a wolfish grin. Cool, but slightly scary. 

 

... Though the top of page on this page shows a full blown grin and its not scary really.  (I do get the urge to punch that face, but I think that's just cus that's the side of the Solasmancing fence I seem to be on today. >_>)


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#147511
dawnstone

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Spoiler

What's your thoughts in this Solas thread? [source]

 

I don't think it is so ◡‿◡ but that's a miniessay of jumblethoughts

Personally I beleive that Flemythal would actually have to be dead dead for the geas to transfer, if the geas even can transfer. This is the woman who said "Bodies can be so limiting" and has resurrected herself multiple times. Even if I hadn't seen her put that little ball of light, or wisp, into the Eluvian, and send it away from Solas, I'd still have doubts whether she was really gone.

 

I have a lot of other theories about the nature of the geas and how they relate to Solas and Mythal/Flemeth and the Inquisitor, but they are generally unpopular. We'll see how it all plays out eventually. Do not believe that Mythal is out of the picture though, whether she takes over Morrigan, or finds another host.


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#147512
AlleluiaElizabeth

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I have a lot of other theories about the nature of the geas and how they relate to Solas and Mythal/Flemeth and the Inquisitor, but they are generally unpopular.

Ok, now I have to hear them. :D Please?


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#147513
Kyartah

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Ok, let's think outside "the box" for a moment in regards of elven history...

 

--- [ IRONY ON ]---

Spoiler

--- [ IRONY OFF ]---

 

I think I better go to bed now... My brain is producing weird ideas...  =]



#147514
FernRain

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.. Though the top of page on this page shows a full blown grin and its not scary really.

 

Not quite, no teeth! I think the closest we got was the start of the game with him laughing when we asked if Varric was part of the chantry.

 

I wonder what they're gonna do with DA:4 animations, since I heard they were going to use motion capture in ME4. I hope they don't go overboard like WoW does in their cinematics. It loses realism.


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#147515
midnight tea

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I doubt that because of the nature of the timeline. See, Solas' creation of the Veil and the subsequent sundering of the Fade weakened the Elvhen empire and the city of Arlathan but it did not destroy it. So imagine Arlathan post-Veil as an empire in severe decline. Not dead, but in decline.

 

I suspect that the humans that the Elves were coexisting with came to them from Par Vollen after the Fade was sundered. They lived in harmony for a time but then grew colder towards each other. Later, conflicts broke out and the rest is history.

 

Actually, the spirit of Arcane Warrior who we encounter in Brecilian Ruins claims to remember times when humans and elves lived in harmony, only to be destroyed by something dark and terrible. In fact, that cataclysm was the reason that Arcane Warrior got trapped in the gem. So it appears that the relation didn't just grow cold - something else seemed to have happened; sadly, we don't have any hints as to when exactly that has happened.

 

As for Tevinter, I believe that it is the spiritual successor of Arlathan, except it is a human dominant society (instead of Elven) and the scale is much smaller (by scale I mean power level of the mages).

 
What I am getting at is the fact that the Arlathan that is known by Dalish legends and Tevinter legends is an Arlathan that was in decline. Arlathan was already there and the first humans who encountered the Elves only saw the declining Elvhenan and they thought it was great and powerful. The humans who coexisted with the Elves coexisted with a group of people who are already in decline.

 

We only know the version of truth from the documents that survived till present, and most of those are from Tevinter. And Tevinter had vested interest in presenting the elves as powerful - so they could sell anyone that they've destroyed Arlathan and the remains of Elvhen empire and convinced everyone that they're the power to be reckoned with. After all, they keep succeeding thorough power and fear - that seems to be pretty much a constant. And since the ruins of Arlathan are lost in the jungle, nobody can really verify if there was even any war.
 

Heck, Dorian is kind of worried about revelations from Temple Of Mythal and claims of Abelas - he tells us that as terrible as it is, the Tevenes always felt vindicated and proud of the fact that they've had put the Elvhen Empire on their knees, because let's face it: it would be something to boast about, IF it was indeed true. But as it stands, even Dorian, a well-educated and reasonable fellow, seems to have been shocked by Abelas' revelations, so even Tevinter's upper crust believes in what is pretty much a lie.

 

And it could never be anything other than a lie, now that we know that Elvenhan relied on presence of the Fade probably even more so than we rely on electricity - once the Veil cut that away, most of their power must've crumbled to dust.

 

Think about it - Legends say of remote Elvhen cities connected to each other by the Eluvians. Yet the first humans only encountered Arlathan and nothing else. No other remote cities. That is because Arlathan was one of the few ancient Elven cities that were left standing prior to the war and prior to the Veil.

 

Or a different thing happened - one that actually happens IRL too: new cities were built on top of old ones. The history is lost already as it is: most people don't even believe that there were times prior to the Veil, much less remember the lost history of regions or cities. The fact that people think that elves only lived in remote areas not connected by roads, but by eluvians, may simply stem from the fact that the areas were too remote for human settlements to spill and consume those cities that were already built over - hence they remained, and made people think that elves only had cities in those far-flung corners. But Solas mentions once or twice that long ago the elves were everywhere (he can make this comment everywhere on the map, no matter how far or close to bigger human cities), so they must've had settlements everywhere as well.

 

Plus, there's one peculiarity about Brecilian Ruins that I've noticed fast (probably because it reminded me much of TES Ayelids) - it was mostly an underground complex. So elves, for some reason, seemed to have built some of their prominent cities underground. The possibility therefore that old infrastructure hides under newer, human cities I'd estimate as quite high.

 

 

Is it too much to hope for Bioware to show how ancient Elvhenan was actually like ? Either through dreams or visions ?

 

Possibly not before some serious spoilers. I keep my fingers crossed for DA4 though - we may yet see a lot of Minrathous, with all its magic-held architecture, which would mean producing assets they could then use to give us a sneak-peek of splendor of Elvenhan.


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#147516
ladyiolanthe

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Here's a few of my thoughts regarding the apparent lack of Elvhen architecture and infrastructure:

 

There are in-game examples of buildings and places that are in use now that have indeed been built on top of ancient Elvhen sites, vis. Skyhold.

 

It's been thousands of years, so while it is indeed possible that the Brecilian ruins were originally an underground complex, it's also possible that, during the intervening millennia, sediment has been deposited around what was originally an aboveground complex. This happens in the real world - think of archaeological digs.

 

It is also possible that some ancient Elvhen buildings were folded into the ground by active Titans sometime in the distant past.

 

As for roads, I'm not sure that we can completely discount the idea that Elvhen cities were not connected by roads. For beings "for whom magic was as natural as breathing," roads would seem an inconvenience, especially if they can easily make Eluvians to travel from place to place. On the other hand, immortal beings might enjoy the journey as much as, if not more than, the destination - so perhaps they did have roads. However, I also have to remember that they seem to have revered nature to a certain extent, so that might have precluded the habitat fragmentation that would be necessary to build a road network. Also: if an ancient elf wanted to enjoy a journey why limit herself to roads? It might be more enjoyable to just meander from place to place, drawn by whatever caught her eyes.

 

Finally, it is likely that many Elvhen buildings were destroyed when Solas put up the Veil, because they needed power from the Fade to remain standing, like the Vir Dirthara. I'm thinking of the "countless other marvels" that were lost that he tells us about in Trespasser. Also, in the Exalted Plains, Cole possibly comments on the weird spire-like rock formations there. He says "Everything here is blurry. It wants to forget, but now the rocks are solid." You can see that comment in this video . The video is of the All New, Faded For Her quest, so I'm not sure whether that particular Cole comment is triggered by having that quest in your journal, which suggests the comment is about Wisdom herself, or whether it's triggered by being in the Exalted Plains, in which case he may be referring to the landscape. If it's the landscape, it suggests that the rocks were not always like that, and I'm reminded of Solas' description of the "spires of crystal twining through the branches." Could the stone spires in the Exalted Plains be the remains of Solas' crystal spires?

 

I'd be curious to know if any of you have heard Cole make that comment about the Exalted Plains when you did not yet have "All New, Faded For Her" in your journal or had already completed it.


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#147517
NightSymphony

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Gorgeous Dread Wolf Statue Box (I want one!!)

http://marinaawin.de...e-Box-585793997


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#147518
FernRain

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I sat outside on the grass in shorts yesterday, and now I have a large welt on my leg. Is this Sera's doing? That will teach me for being (kinda) Elfy :lol:.


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#147519
dawnstone

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Ok, now I have to hear them. :D Please?

These are just theories, which are based on musings, predictions and headcanons, so I'm not interested in arguing about them:

 

Spoiler

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#147520
Cee

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I sat outside on the grass in shorts yesterday, and now I have a large welt on my leg. Is this Sera's doing? That will teach me for being (kinda) Elfy :lol:.

 

If you start flinging jars of bees, you may redeem yourself.

 

That sounds so lovely *eyes coming blizzard*


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#147521
midnight tea

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These are just theories, which are based on musings, predictions and headcanons, so I'm not interested in arguing about them:

 

Spoiler

 

[spoiler]

I have to admit, I don't understand this assumption - why assume that Solas hasn't neutralized the geas? If his vallaslin removal does nothing, why he'd even remove it from slaves and declared them free? That would all be a lie I don't think Solas would be able to accept - either telling it to others or to himself. Since Solas is presumably WAY more powerful than Abelas (he created the Veil after all and helped Mythal strike the Titans and who knows what he did behind the scenes) he must've found a way to either break the geas, or was never one to be bound the way Sentinels are.

 

I also don't really find bound Solas' fate as more tragic - more like disappointing if it was the case, since it'd undermine all of his decisions, make him a pawn no better than Corypheus (or even worse, because in the end Cory managed to mess things up on his own accord) and put all blame squarely on Mythal's shoulders. I'd rather that he was "bound" by the very sense of duty, perhaps genuine loyalty to Mythal or guilt or responsibility or pride (or all of them combined)...



#147522
Ellawynn

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Here's a few of my thoughts regarding the apparent lack of Elvhen architecture and infrastructure:

 

There are in-game examples of buildings and places that are in use now that have indeed been built on top of ancient Elvhen sites, vis. Skyhold.

 

It's been thousands of years, so while it is indeed possible that the Brecilian ruins were originally an underground complex, it's also possible that, during the intervening millennia, sediment has been deposited around what was originally an aboveground complex. This happens in the real world - think of archaeological digs.

 

It is also possible that some ancient Elvhen buildings were folded into the ground by active Titans sometime in the distant past.

 

This. I wouldn't put too much stock in the fact that the Brecilian Ruins are underground. Personally, I don't think Brecilian Ruins should be used as an indicator of anything.

Spoiler


#147523
FernRain

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If you start flinging jars of bees, you may redeem yourself.

 

That sounds so lovely *eyes coming blizzard*

 

I had actually wondered if I was the target of one of those jars.. ;).

 

We've had a rather cold summer this time, though February is our hottest month so who knows what will happen o.o.

 

And what is this thing you call 'blizzard'? I've never seen such a thing :(. It sounds cosy.

 

I don't have a Solas picture for top, but look at this weird thing I found:

 

0dKtpwc.jpg

 

Edit, I took a picture for top:

 

0Y9tyWJ.jpg


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#147524
CapricornSun

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*snip*

 

I'm still on the theory train that "Ghilashim" is actually young Abelas. Which makes his scenes so much funnier.

 

*snip*

 

lol, oh my! If Ghilashim turned out to be young Abelas, that would really make my day. :lol:

 

Gorgeous Dread Wolf Statue Box (I want one!!)

http://marinaawin.de...e-Box-585793997

 

Hnngh! I want this!!  :o <3



#147525
CapricornSun

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Art post.

 

niklisson's cute and lovely artwork of Solas and Lavellan being playful in the tub.  :D <3

 

Lavellan and Solas didn't dance at Halamshiral. (Artist mentioned getting an idea when watching Pride and Prejudice.)

 

"I walk the dinan'shiral. There is only death on this journey. I would not have you see what I become." Crying Solas. :(

 

Solas warm up sketches.

 

WIP of crying Solas. :(


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