153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Uirebhiril]

Considering the number of background stories where characters were traveling as babes but ran and hid while their parents were slaughtered, I'd be more worried for Solas and Lavellan. The kids would be fine; some Dalish clan or kindly knight/merchant/farmer will come take them in and help them grow up strong so they can get revenge/try to live a normal life/attempt find their place in the world.

 

Solas and Lavellan, though? Man. Rotting on a forest floor somewhere, or scattered to the winds as nothing more than dust and bones. That will teach them to travel with kids!

[dawnstone]

Considering the number of background stories where characters were traveling as babes but ran and hid while their parents were slaughtered, I'd be more worried for Solas and Lavellan. The kids would be fine; some Dalish clan or kindly knight/merchant/farmer will come take them in and help them grow up strong so they can get revenge/try to live a normal life/attempt find their place in the world.

 

Solas and Lavellan, though? Man. Rotting on a forest floor somewhere, or scattered to the winds as nothing more than dust and bones. That will teach them to travel with kids!

Who knows, maybe they'll all die and all that will be left of them is a Blood-Soaked Teddy Bear that you can sell for 1 gold.

[roselavellan]

I don't know that they have to travel into war zones, particularly. I think the idea is that both Solas and Lavellan crave knowledge and wisdom, hence it's that that they're travelling for, not necessarily to solve evil invasions/border disputes or what not. But there's definitely less freedom when you have kids, and yeah, no couple-y excursions into the Fade. I guess one has to figure out what priorities their Lavellan has.

 

But all that is just fantasy, I'm sure. While seeing Solas or Lavellan with a baby makes my heart melt, I'll honestly be ecstatic if Lavellan ends up with Solas in some way - happily, of course.

 

Who knows, maybe they'll all die and all that will be left of them is a Blood-Soaked Teddy Bear that you can sell for 1 gold.

 

Ugh, that scene

[Uirebhiril]

Who knows, maybe they'll all die and all that will be left of them is a Blood-Soaked Teddy Bear that you can sell for 1 gold.

 

Nope. I kept that damn thing in my inventory forever because I just couldn't part with it. Such a small thing in the whole of the game and it really smacked me upside the head.

[dawnstone]

No offense, but it seems everyone here assumes that in order to have kids, Solas and Lavellan must "settle down." As in, pick one house and live a sedentary lifestyle until the kids are grown. Technically speaking, they don't have to. They can keep traveling the world, seeking new knowledge and discoveries, just now with kids in tow.

 

It might just be me, but I think today we think having kids means one has to settle down till the kids are grown mostly because modern society has public schools and mandatory K-12 education requirements, which is designed with a sedentary lifestyle in mind. However, They didn't have K-12 education requirements in the middle ages (in fact, they weren't educated at all except for the clergy and occasional nobility), so if Solas and Lavellan want to travel the world and take their kids with them, no one's gonna stop them. It's not like they're farmers who have to work the plot of land they rent, or are nobles who have to overlook the castles and lands their family owns.

 

I mean, the Dalish travel around and raise kids just fine. In DAO, Lanaya mentions how her parents were servants to a traveling merchant caravan and she traveled around with them, until the day their caravan was destroyed by bandits, and she was taken as a slave until the Dalish attacked them and took her in. And then you have Bodahn, a traveling merchant who brings his boy Sandal with him everywhere. So it's not like it can't be done.

 

I've said it before, I love Solas, I think he's a great character - but I do not trust him to take care of the things he loves for more than a few minutes. He breaks them. Badly. A lot.

[Ghost Gal]

 

Uh....I don't see everyone saying or assuming that.

 

Oh, sorry. I missed that one.

 

Considering the number of background stories where characters were traveling as babes but ran and hid while their parents were slaughtered, I'd be more worried for Solas and Lavellan. The kids would be fine; some Dalish clan or kindly knight/merchant/farmer will come take them in and help them grow up strong so they can get revenge/try to live a normal life/attempt find their place in the world.

 

Solas and Lavellan, though? Man. Rotting on a forest floor somewhere, or scattered to the winds as nothing more than dust and bones. That will teach them to travel with kids!

 

I think the Dread Wolf and former Herald of Andraste can handle it. 

 

Although, when you think about it we've found just as many orphans whose parents died horribly who come from sedentary lifestyles too, so, pick your poison.

 

I would also argue that I wasn't the first to bring up the travel around stuff being an issue.  In my initial post I said I didn't see Solas as a dad type in so much as actually wanting kids of his own.  For me that means staying at home or dragging them every where with you.  Doesn't matter if you are in a white picket fence or traveling in a caravan your lifestyle is going to change when you have kids.  There are going to be things they just wouldn't be able to do anymore.  Tiny example Solas thinks hey Lavellan lets go into the Fade and find memories in this place except now you have a screaming toddler who doesn't want to take a nap nap right then and has no interest in the Fade at that moment.  So never mind.

 

Just play catch or tag with the kid for an hour, they'll go out like a light. 

 

In all seriousness, I understand where you're coming from, I just don't fully agree. To me, "your lifestyle is going to change" doesn't mean "You can't do any of the things you want to do anymore!" Okay, so Solas will have to schedule his Fade visits around his kid's sleep schedule. No biggie. Even if little kids don't nap on demand, they still have to sleep sometime, and when they do... Okay, so Solas and Lavellan can't go into war zones anymore--although, unless they're still part of the Inquisiton, why would they be in war zones or hunting evil in the first place?  And if they are still part of the Inquisition, technically they have babysitters on hand all the time anyway...

 

I guess it just depends on what you're fantasizing and what kind of lifestyle you envision for your Lavellan and Solas. For some, they imagine a possible AU happy ending in the future where the Inquisitor convinces the Dread Wolf to lay down his burdens, but they know Solas is never going to be accepted by modern Thedas after the stunts he tried to pull as the Dread Wolf, so they'd probably have to quietly retire somewhere anyway. For some, they imagine a happy AU where Solas chose to discard his plans during the culmination of the romance, so if Solas already gave up his ambitions as the Dread Wolf and/or his immortal lifestyle of wandering the Fade in Uthenera to settle down and live a mortal life with Lavellan, a domestic life with kids is not too far off. Some might also see them as staying with the Inquisition for years, where they have a huge social support network of companions and Inquisition employees to serve as round-the-clock babysitter access. However, some, like yourself, see them as continuing adventuring and confronting/fighting bad guys, so now that you mentioned it I can see how kids would definitely not work in that circumstance. (Not to mention there's no kids in Uthenera situations, unless there's a way for spirits of sleeping mortals to reproduce little spirits in the Fade while their physical bodies sleep in the real world...)

 

Again, it all depends. I guess I just personally don't understand arguments like, "having kids = mandatory boring domestic lifestyle" or "having kids = you can't do any of the things you love anymore because you now have to schedule things you want around caring for your kid's physical needs" because I don't see it that way.

[Elessara]

The Arcane Warrior specialization lets you use your magic stat to substitute strength. And that lets a mage pass nearly every strength check in the game, because it eliminates the need to do anything but pour all your points in magic. That includes the strength requirement on armors and weapons - so yeah, mages with little actual training can run around in full plate slinging great swords. They'll actually do considerably more damage doing it, despite being staffless. 

 

And while Morrigan has a staff, she doesn't always use it. And there are several points where she uses magic just fine without it. Where several others use magic just fine without it. Merrill, Jowan, that weird hermit in Brecilian. The Inquisitor themselves actually uses magic without a staff to light Veilfire or shift rubble out of the way.

 

Like, I can buy the idea that staves are useful for... increasing accuracy or something. But I've seen nothing to imply they're necessary to casting magic well, much less to casting it at all. In same vein, I doubt all the random mercenaries and monsters in Thedas politely lined up and arranged themselves by power level so that the Inquisitor was always challenged but never overwhelmed by their enemies. And I doubt that switching armor and weapons mid-battle means everyone kindly drops the fight for the hour or so it'd take for you to change out of one set of armor into another. I doubt you drink poultices like they did in DAO.

 

Gameplay and Story Segregation, guys. It's your friend.

 

Also in the very beginning of DAI where you're walking along with Cassandra and you get into the very first fight .. yeah a mage Inquisitor goes looking for a staff but in the convo afterwards the Inq can say "I don't need a staff" or if you agree with Cassandra to disarm even she will say "You don't need a staff."  So there's precedence even there.

[Elessara]

I seem to have popped in during a different conversation than the one I left this morning lol.  To add to it ...

 

I think Solas could be a good father, he likes teaching/giving wisdom which is something a parent should do.  But I don't know that I see Solas as actually wanting children?  Or maybe wanting isn't a good word, maybe deserving?  And NOT having kids isn't a bad thing ... nor is even not *wanting* to have them.  People can be in love and want to be together and still not want children.  Personally I can see Solas as both wanting to be a father and not wanting to be a father.  Whether or not Solas and Lavellan will even have the opportunity to create a family is what's completely up in the air at this point.

 

I'm not even going to touch on what a Lavellan would want as everyone's is different.

[midnight tea]

I've said it before, I love Solas, I think he's a great character - but I do not trust him to take care of the things he loves for more than a few minutes. He breaks them. Badly. A lot.

 

Huh. Then I don't think you'd be able to save him. The game suggests fairly strongly that trusting that he's not as huge screwup as he himself thinks to be and helping him to re-learn trust in return is likely the key to his redemption.

 

I myself think that just making Solas this big master at breaking stuff is just a bad way of looking at things.

[Elessara]

Huh. Then I don't think you'd be able to save him. The game suggests fairly strongly that trusting that he's not as huge screwup as he himself thinks to be and helping him to re-learn trust in return is likely the key to his redemption.

 

I myself think that just making Solas this big master at breaking stuff is just a bad way of looking at things.

 

It also turns him into a joke of an antagonist.  Oh look at Solas always screwing things up!  Can't take that seriously, can we?  Really though I don't think he's screwed up as many things as he thinks he has or as many things as others thinks he has.  Was locking away the Evanuris a mistake, really?  Probably not.  Was creating the Veil a mistake?  That is open to interpretation.  Allowing Corypheus to find his orb?  Not the best idea, no.

[midnight tea]

It also turns him into a joke of an antagonist.  Oh look at Solas always screwing things up!  Can't take that seriously, can we?  Really though I don't think he's screwed up as many things as he thinks he has or as many things as others thinks he has.  Was locking away the Evanuris a mistake, really?  Probably not.  Was creating the Veil a mistake?  That is open to interpretation.  Allowing Corypheus to find his orb?  Not the best idea, no.

 

Solas is simply a hero for which the writers didn't create a happy ending (... yet? Ever?).

 

He tried to change the world, did many things to try and help people, and things didn't turn out to be as fairly-tale easy as in other tales we've seen. There's no laser beam led by the Force to blow up the Death Star. There's no Big Bad to defeat and everything magically goes back to being honey and flowers. No simple - or even complex - solution to change the world for the better without huge sacrifices. A lot of his mistakes can be explained by him going against huge odds - and he wasn't the only one ho did and paid the price. By all accounts Mythal tried to change things too, and she got herself betrayed and killed.

[dawnstone]

I'm not even going to touch on what a Lavellan would want as everyone's is different.

Yes! I have two Lavellans, one is already a mother, and has no interest in having more children; the other is the adventuring type, likes taking risks, having a lot of freedom, and wouldn't want the added responsibility of a kid in the sort of places she seeks out - nor is she in a good place in her life by the end of Trespasser to even consider it (having lost her arm to the man she loves, who is also threatening to destroy everything she holds dear. Seriously, if he gets redeemed he's going to need to do some grovelling to touch that booty again).

 

I agree that a hypothetical Solas/Lavellan family would do just fine living itinerantly. I'm more concerned that Solas would get them mixed up in something from his past which would put them in danger, or would be distracted from his role as a parent by his other can't see the trees for the forest goals.

 

Everybody plays their characters differently, everyone is allowed to headcanon where their character's relationship ends up, and whether its a HEA or not, babies ever-after or not, everyone dies and is sad or not. Personally, I won't say no to a HEA, but what that means for my characters is going to be wildly different than someone else's.

[Elessara]

Solas is simply a hero for which the writers didn't create a happy ending (... yet? Ever?).

 

He tried to change the world, did many things to try and help people, and things didn't turn out to be as fairly-tale easy as in other tales we've seen. There's no laser beam led by the Force to blow up the Death Star. There's no Big Bad to defeat and everything magically goes back to being honey and flowers. No simple - or even complex - solution to change the world for the better without huge sacrifices. A lot of his mistakes can be explained by him going against huge odds - and he wasn't the only one ho did and paid the price. By all accounts Mythal tried to change things too, and she got herself betrayed and killed.

 

I wasn't trying to imply that Solas is a bad guy or evil.  But he is being built up as the next game's antagonist.  We (whoever we may be playing, new char or inq) will probably have to stop him from destroying the world as we know it - and by destruction it could mean burning in raw chaos or simply massive upheaval.  This may or may not mean killing him or letting him die or saving him.  My hope is the latter of course.

 

My personal preference would be to be able to talk Solas out of whatever possibly catastrophic plan he has now and help him find a way to remove the Veil and restore the world (because I do believe Thedas is broken in a fundamental way with the Veil currently in place) in a more peaceful manner.  But that's just me.  And we may not get that option.

[thaali]

I see were everyone is coming from but I do see kids as making it so you have to totally change your lifestyle for the kid but I don't want kids myself. I like kids I just have no desire to have one and all that entails. That said it could also be me being defensive because I genuinely don't see Solas as wanting kids so when people write/draw him with kids it feels forced. I can't tell you how many times I've told people I didn't want kids and they'd say something against it. Before I got married it was oh wait till you meet the right man now that I'm married it's oh it'll be different when your older or just wait the desire will kick in. It just feels like to often kids are expected so not wanting them is like taboo.

Anyways so that's probably where my personal issue with it comes from.

Also brings to light the fact that everyone sees characters different and will put a little sprinkle of themselves in but really that's part of the beauty of it.

[dawnstone]

I see were everyone is coming from but I do see kids as making it so you have to totally change your lifestyle for the kid but I don't want kids myself. I like kids I just have no desire to have one and all that entails. That said it could also be me being defensive because I genuinely don't see Solas as wanting kids so when people write/draw him with kids it feels forced. I can't tell you how many times I've told people I didn't want kids and they'd say something against it. Before I got married it was oh wait till you meet the right man now that I'm married it's oh it'll be different when your older or just wait the desire will kick in. It just feels like to often kids are expected so not wanting them is like taboo.

Anyways so that's probably where my personal issue with it comes from.

Also brings to light the fact that everyone sees characters different and will put a little sprinkle of themselves in but really that's part of the beauty of it.

I do have a kid, and I would not want him within a thousand miles of what my characters and their friends get up to.

[midnight tea]

I see were everyone is coming from but I do see kids as making it so you have to totally change your lifestyle for the kid but I don't want kids myself. I like kids I just have no desire to have one and all that entails. That said it could also be me being defensive because I genuinely don't see Solas as wanting kids so when people write/draw him with kids it feels forced. I can't tell you how many times I've told people I didn't want kids and they'd say something against it. Before I got married it was oh wait till you meet the right man now that I'm married it's oh it'll be different when your older or just wait the desire will kick in. It just feels like to often kids are expected so not wanting them is like taboo.

Anyways so that's probably where my personal issue with it comes from.

Also brings to light the fact that everyone sees characters different and will put a little sprinkle of themselves in but really that's part of the beauty of it.

 

To be fair, the only time the game is close to even implying to Solas wanting to settle down is actually just Sera implying that Inky and Solas are together to "rebuild the empire, phwoar" He didn't even bother to comment on this, calling her silly. The only other time is a vague visual implication at the very beginning of that scene:

Spoiler

 

Two, equal harts looking towards a young tree. This is way too vague to extrapolate anything as specific as "Solas wants to settle down", when he simply may have wanted to have her at his side to help him create new world orde... I mean, the new world

 

 

I wasn't trying to imply that Solas is a bad guy or evil. 

 

I asn't trying to imply that you implied that Solas is bad or evil  He is built up as antagonist - but not as straightforward villain.

[Elessara]

To be fair, the only time the game is close to even implying to Solas wanting to settle down is actually just Sera implying that Inky and Solas are together to "rebuild the empire, phwoar" He didn't even bother to comment on this, calling her silly. The only other time is a vague visual implication at the very beginning of that scene:

Spoiler

 

Two, equal harts looking towards a young tree. This is way too vague to extrapolate anything as specific as "Solas wants to settle down", when he simply may have wanted to have her at his side to help him create new world orde... I mean, the new world

 

 

 

I asn't trying to imply that you implied that Solas is bad or evil  He is built up as antagonist - but not as straightforward villain.

 

I would never have caught that "two statues looking at a tree thing" so yeah that's pretty vague, I agree.

 

As to the other, ok just making sure  

[Ghost Gal]

I see were everyone is coming from but I do see kids as making it so you have to totally change your lifestyle for the kid but I don't want kids myself. I like kids I just have no desire to have one and all that entails. That said it could also be me being defensive because I genuinely don't see Solas as wanting kids so when people write/draw him with kids it feels forced. I can't tell you how many times I've told people I didn't want kids and they'd say something against it. Before I got married it was oh wait till you meet the right man now that I'm married it's oh it'll be different when your older or just wait the desire will kick in. It just feels like to often kids are expected so not wanting them is like taboo.

Anyways so that's probably where my personal issue with it comes from.

Also brings to light the fact that everyone sees characters different and will put a little sprinkle of themselves in but really that's part of the beauty of it.

 

That's completely fair. Like you said, we all view the characters differently, and we put a bit of ourselves in our perceptions of the characters and/or the fantasies we want out of the fictional relationship (for example, fan art of Bull x Quizzy vacillates on how humorous, romantic, and/or sexual the portrayal of the relationship is depending on how they see their Quizzy and the relationship they want with Bull), so some see the kids as totally a thing while others say, "Are you kidding?", and some say, "That's so adorable!" or "I want that!" while others say "Barf!" or "Keep that away from me!"

 

Just so you know, I totally understand the antipathy toward having kids. My sister (who's close to me in age and who has been my best friend since infancy) also doesn't want kids and never has, and she's also been battling the "you'll want kids eventually" argument since she was little. I personally like kids, and I'd be lying if I said part of me doesn't want them, but another equally strong part of me has always said, "NO!" In some ways I envy women who know they don't want kids because they aren't always vacillating the way I am.

 

However, with all this said, I have to admit that I'm not generally a fan of "Solas is a daddy with his adorable little kid!" or "Solas and Lavellan are loving parents with their adorable little kids!" fanart either because, more often than not, I find it sickeningly sweet.   Whether it's romance, children, or cartoon animals, I don't tend to like fictional things that depicted as too saccharine. (DAO Leliana, I'm looking at you. Just looking at you gives me toothache.)

 

EDIT: (That said, I won't complain whenever someone here shares parent Solas and/or Lavellan fanart. I'll simply scroll over.  )

[Bayonet Hipshot]

EDIT: (That said, I won't complain whenever someone here shares parent Solas and/or Lavellan fanart. I'll simply scroll over.  )

 

 

This. I find the artwork amusing but I am someone who is really not interested in having children. They cost too much resource (money, time, emotions) and the main reason people have kids is because they want to pass on their genes, whether they think this consciously or unconsciously.

 

The thing is you only pass 50% of your genes and that is halved with each subsequent generation. So its 50, 25, 12.5, 6.25, 3.125, 1.5625, etc. Assuming each generation is spaced about 30 years, all it takes is about 100 years or so for the "passing down your genes" argument to become quite irrelevant. Compound that with the reality that 100 years is nothing compared to the age of the universe / reality itself and it starts to look like a pointless endeavor.

 

What's more, your genes is made up of the same basic material as the others and I am sure with the advent of genetic engineering, we can engineer genes to be the way they want instead of relying on nature's randomization.

 

At the end of the day, things such as reproduction, pair bonding and the family unit is a byproduct of the forces of evolutionary biology. No need to get all torn up about it.

[dawnstone]

It also turns him into a joke of an antagonist.  Oh look at Solas always screwing things up!  Can't take that seriously, can we?  Really though I don't think he's screwed up as many things as he thinks he has or as many things as others thinks he has.  Was locking away the Evanuris a mistake, really?  Probably not.  Was creating the Veil a mistake?  That is open to interpretation.  Allowing Corypheus to find his orb?  Not the best idea, no.

Well, it's not like they didn't turn Corypheus into a joke of an antagonist.

 

Anyway, regardless of the reasons, if they were good or bad, Solas has played god. He changed the fundamental nature of reality, and then changed his mind about it when the results were less than satisfactory. I find that hilarious. But I also want the Veil to come down, mostly because I want to see what happens.

 

Although, speaking of joking, that does bring something to mind. One of the reasons I like Sera is that she was regularly taking the piss out of Solas, which gave him levity. He never went off on her, until she got really disrespectful and was speaking ill of the dead. He also tried to understand where she was coming from and was interested in her perspective, and tried to draw on her innate elfyness (and was even occasionally successful, even if Sera didn't realize it). Their relationship was not positive or friendly, but it's one of my favorites in the game.

[drosophila]

Who knows, maybe they'll all die and all that will be left of them is a Blood-Soaked Teddy Bear that you can sell for 1 gold.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who picked up that loot. 

[midnight tea]

Well, it's not like they didn't turn Corypheus into a joke of an antagonist..

 

Aside from the fact that it's more a matter of presentation than intent, Corypheus was always supposed to be a pawn of someone else and a creature twisted by the Blight. Solas ain't anything like it. 

[dawnstone]

Glad I'm not the only one who picked up that loot. 

I picked it up the first time in case it had something to do with a quest, but it didn't, so I just go past it if I'm up that way now.

[drosophila]

Every military brat in existence would like to have a word with you.

 

I'm one of them

 

 

This. I find the artwork amusing but I am someone who is really not interested in having children. They cost too much resource (money, time, emotions) and the main reason people have kids is because they want to pass on their genes, whether they think this consciously or unconsciously.

 

The thing is you only pass 50% of your genes and that is halved with each subsequent generation. So its 50, 25, 12.5, 6.25, 3.125, 1.5625, etc. Assuming each generation is spaced about 30 years, all it takes is about 100 years or so for the "passing down your genes" argument to become quite irrelevant. Compound that with the reality that 100 years is nothing compared to the age of the universe / reality itself and it starts to look like a pointless endeavor.

 

What's more, your genes is made up of the same basic material as the others and I am sure with the advent of genetic engineering, we can engineer genes to be the way they want instead of relying on nature's randomization.

 

At the end of the day, things such as reproduction, pair bonding and the family unit is a byproduct of the forces of evolutionary biology. No need to get all torn up about it.

 

You don't get to pass on even half your genes, actually. The kids will never have the exact same genes as the parents, because recombination, mutations, and epigenetics will change those genes before the kids are conceived. The genes of the parents are more like a sketch or a first draft and the genes of the kids are the final work. And even then, environment and upbringing will contribute just as much as genetics into what the new human ends up being like.

 

As for Solavellan having kids: If folks enjoy the idea of that, I see nothing wrong with it, let everyone have fun, but I hope the couple have kids in an AU or future where Solas feels happy about the world and is not planning to destroy everything. 

[Elessara]

Well, it's not like they didn't turn Corypheus into a joke of an antagonist.

 

Anyway, regardless of the reasons, if they were good or bad, Solas has played god. He changed the fundamental nature of reality, and then changed his mind about it when the results were less than satisfactory. I find that hilarious. But I also want the Veil to come down, mostly because I want to see what happens.

 

Although, speaking of joking, that does bring something to mind. One of the reasons I like Sera is that she was regularly taking the piss out of Solas, which gave him levity. He never went off on her, until she got really disrespectful and was speaking ill of the dead. He also tried to understand where she was coming from and was interested in her perspective, and tried to draw on her innate elfyness (and was even occasionally successful, even if Sera didn't realize it). Their relationship was not positive or friendly, but it's one of my favorites in the game.

 

Yeah they could have handled Corypheus better.  However, I would say it's not so much that Solas changed his mind because the results were less than satisfactory.  From what I understand he created the Veil to seal away the Evanuris.  He accomplished his goal.  The side effects are what he feels guilty about - the loss of elven immortality, the crumbling of elven society and culture, the subsequent enslavement of the elven race and their current status in the world, and the feelings the people of modern Thedas have about magic and spirits.  These were all unintended side effects of the creation of the Veil which he feels incredibly guilty about and are what he's trying to remedy.  He's trying to atone for the consequences of his actions.

 

I also like the relationship between Sera and Solas.