What good is Mythal without her power?
What good is the cunning, clever, unkillable ancient goddess who possesses unparalleled knowledge of the ancient elves, their lost history, their forgotten spells, their tremendous magical might and understanding?
Oh, bloody useless, I'm sure.
Considering what she managed to do with a single Fereldan mage over the centuries, I dare say Mythal can take care of herself. 
What good is Mythal without her power?
What good is the cunning, clever, unkillable ancient goddess who possesses unparalleled knowledge of the ancient elves, their lost history, their forgotten spells, their tremendous magical might and understanding?
Oh, bloody useless, I'm sure.
Mythal already lost most of her powers when she was killed she became a wisp of herself what I said earlier was what good is Mythal if she is gone forever like literally been absorbed by Solas
The Arcane Warrior specialization lets you use your magic stat to substitute strength. And that lets a mage pass nearly every strength check in the game, because it eliminates the need to do anything but pour all your points in magic. That includes the strength requirement on armors and weapons - so yeah, mages with little actual training can run around in full plate slinging great swords. They'll actually do considerably more damage doing it, despite being staffless.
Mythal already lost most of her powers when she was killed she became a wisp of herself what I said earlier was what good is Mythal if she is gone forever like literally been absorbed by Solas
It's been suggested by dev notes and her actions in the Epilogue that she passed on Mythal to Morrigan through the Eluvian, and the raw power (and presumably the soul of Urthemiel, if applicable) to Solas. Which means that she'll have to start near scratch with Morrigan, but she managed a magnificent success with the original Flemeth.
Knowledge is power. Someone with an intimate knowledge of the Evanuris, Solas, ancient elven magic, ancient dwarven history and lore for that matter, as well as command over the Eluvian network...Well. 
His close bond with Mythal might be because they both realised they shared doubts over what they'd let themselves become and felt that things needed to change. Perhaps they conspired so that Solas would be the rebel, outcast and abolitionist, while Mythal would be his spy on the inside, feeding him information... and perhaps the discovery of the latter is part of what prompted them to eventually murder her?
If so, then why Flemeth speak of a betrayal?Catch a spy isn't a betrayal.
It would probably be a 'they betrayed our ideals and our people and endangered every living thing first, dammit!' kinda scenario. So they went douchey, then she started working against them, then they murdered her.
Personally, and this is just me mind you, I think it is unlikely that Mythal was a spy for Solas. I just can't see her conceding to that kind of role. From what I've gotten from her character she is too used to be the one controlling the spies to be one for someone else. That said I could see it as possible that she sent Solas to start freeing the elves, but that also doesn't quite seem right given Solas' adamant passion against all things slavery/anti-freedom it seems more like a rebellion/passion he would have started on his own.
My own little weird headcanon is that he tried to change Mythal's mind but, though she was better than the others, she was not prepared to completely free all the other elves due to it being what she was used to or that she wasn't prepared to go against the others yet. So Solas left her, perhaps not on the best terms, and later she is killed by the other Evanuris for whatever reason (there's several theories I think are plausible here but I'm not going to list them all.) When Solas finds out he is torn up by guilt because before all this he was her protector so him, being Solas, he blames himself in many ways for her death (and he never stopped caring about her either just as a close friend/mentor or as more at one point) thus triggering the final straw that causes him to make the big move against the Evanuris.
Again just my own headcanon musings.
It would be nice to have also The Evanuris perspective on the matter,i'm not saying that Solas and Flemeth are wrong,but
it doesn't seem fair to accuse those who are unable to speak for themselves.
The AW specialization should require a lot of years of practise,that for gamplay reasons you are able to master it in DAO instantanly is another matter.However as you know AW are unable to perform useful attacks in melee combat with weapons, they can wear armors yes but they don't know how to use weapons properly like warriors or rogues.Jowan was a prisoner if he is freed he later use a staff when he is with others refugees,The inquisitor has the anchor as magical support.Staff are enchanted powerful object that can increase the attirubutes of a mage they aren't there solely for gameplay reasons.
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tidarion
Powerful enough to be an Archon, used a sword.
Also:
http://dragonage.wik...ade_of_Tidarion
This item is classified as a staff for gameplay reasons because mages can only use staffs in game. It functions as a sword. If you equip it, a mage character will run into melee and melee with it to perform auto attacks. Spells can still be cast using this item.
I still maintain that staffs being used by mages are partially because of tradition out of game (D&D, Gandalf, etc.), tradition within the game world (that's what mages have always used), and gameplay reasons.
Another example of gameplay: bows. In DAI only rogues can use bows even though there is no reason fighters should not be able to use them. And iirc bows could be used by fighters in DAO (and maybe DA2, I forget).
If so, then why Flemeth speak of a betrayal?Catch a spy isn't a betrayal.
As Caddius suggested, Mythal and Solas may have felt betrayed by how corrupted the Evanuris had become. Solas states that the Evanuris rose to power as generals during a terrible war, implying that they may have once fought to save the Elven people from destruction... only to later threaten to cause the destruction of everything themselves with their lust for more power.
The personal betrayal would be when her husband and her former friends decided to brutally murder her for opposing them. How or what they did to her we don't know, but it was enough to leave her a bare wisp of what she once was, taking centuries to gather enough strength to recover as suggested by Flemeth.
However, perhaps he rose to his position from a simple background. Remember how he mostly lied by omission (mostly). He says he grew up in a small village. Maybe he was born a commoner indeed, then became evanuris later.
Solas would seem to suggest this in Trespasser, as he does tell us the Evanuris were soldiers who became generals, then ended up as God-Kings. Him having a common background, joining the military and then ended up in a position of power would all fit.
Of course, that depends on whether he was telling the truth, but I am inclined to believe he was. While he says he doesn't want to tell us everything about his future plans, he does pretty much lay all his cards down on the table for us at the end of Trespasser, when he really didn't need to.
Personally, and this is just me mind you, I think it is unlikely that Mythal was a spy for Solas. I just can't see her conceding to that kind of role. From what I've gotten from her character she is too used to be the one controlling the spies to be one for someone else. That said I could see it as possible that she sent Solas to start freeing the elves, but that also doesn't quite seem right given Solas' adamant passion against all things slavery/anti-freedom it seems more like a rebellion/passion he would have started on his own.
Well, I meant to suggest earlier that the two were probably working in tandem.
I do agree that Mythal would be more likely to be the ringleader using Solas as her agent of change, based on both their characterisation and the nature of their relationship that's implied. So Mythal would have been less a spy working for him, as more of an M to his Bond, keeping her agent apprised of vital information that he needed to know to help carry out their plans.
Personally, and this is just me mind you, I think it is unlikely that Mythal was a spy for Solas. I just can't see her conceding to that kind of role. From what I've gotten from her character she is too used to be the one controlling the spies to be one for someone else. That said I could see it as possible that she sent Solas to start freeing the elves, but that also doesn't quite seem right given Solas' adamant passion against all things slavery/anti-freedom it seems more like a rebellion/passion he would have started on his own.
My own little weird headcanon is that he tried to change Mythal's mind but, though she was better than the others, she was not prepared to completely free all the other elves due to it being what she was used to or that she wasn't prepared to go against the others yet. So Solas left her, perhaps not on the best terms, and later she is killed by the other Evanuris for whatever reason (there's several theories I think are plausible here but I'm not going to list them all.) When Solas finds out he is torn up by guilt because before all this he was her protector so him, being Solas, he blames himself in many ways for her death (and he never stopped caring about her either just as a close friend/mentor or as more at one point) thus triggering the final straw that causes him to make the big move against the Evanuris.
Again just my own headcanon musings.
You should consider the possibility that Mythal initially wanted Solas to free the slaves of the other Evanuris so she could recruit them or she could be the one with the most amount of slaves and that Solas did not get along well with this idea.
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tidarion
Powerful enough to be an Archon, used a sword.
Also:
http://dragonage.wik...ade_of_Tidarion
This item is classified as a staff for gameplay reasons because mages can only use staffs in game. It functions as a sword. If you equip it, a mage character will run into melee and melee with it to perform auto attacks. Spells can still be cast using this item.
I still maintain that staffs being used by mages are partially because of tradition out of game (D&D, Gandalf, etc.), tradition within the game world (that's what mages have always used), and gameplay reasons.
Another example of gameplay: bows. In DAI only rogues can use bows even though there is no reason fighters should not be able to use them. And iirc bows could be used by fighters in DAO (and maybe DA2, I forget).
I did not know the lore of Tidarion,still i can see him being both a mage and a swordsmanship since he was trained to use a sword properly during his childhood.As for the other staff that function also as a blade sure why not? Is a peculiar weapon similarly to the one of mage Hawke which is munited of a sharp blade.Point is that the more conventional staff aren't there just for gamplay reasons they are useful too
That is why you join the glorious Rogue Master Race and oneshot those puny mages in their robes with sneak attacks and poison.
Maybe there's a reason lorewise that mages can't channel magic through swords or daggers as easily as they can with a staff, such as requiring a certain amount of lyrium be woven into an object to provide an adequate amplifier and staves are the only thing large enough to be effective?
I know that otherwise, a mage-rogue hybrid rocking a pair of (scaled down) versions of the Staff of Parthalan, would be a lot of fun to play.
Maybe there's a reason lorewise that mages can't channel magic through swords or daggers as easily as they can with a staff, such as requiring a certain amount of lyrium be woven into an object to provide an adequate amplifier and staves are the only thing large enough to be effective?
Maybe? But that begs the question of why they don't just smear lyrium over all their sh*t - why stop at the staff? Why not their clothes - or armor, even? Maybe people don't want mages being that powerful, but when you're the leader of the Inquisition I think they'll make an exception (And who's there to stop you even if they don't?) Maybe lyrium's expensive - but what expense can be spared when you're talking about empowering and protecting the only person who can stop the apocalypse? And if mages rely so much on their staves to be powerful, why make the staves in the first place? Why hand them out to every Circle mage? That's like trying to fight a fire by throwing powder kegs at it.
From a story standpoint, It just doesn't make any sort of sense for staves to give a significant power boost to mages. Maybe they give a small one. Maybe they improve accuracy and control. Maybe they allow the mage to "change" their damage type (To one of the electric/frost/fire elemental types.) But beyond that? If mages relied on their staves to be any significant threat, they wouldn't have them in the first place. You'd solve half the mage problem right there. You'd solve the entire mage problem if abominations are similarly restricted to relying on staves. If that's true, if staves are so integral, then every anti-mage character in the story's a raging idiot. Even the pro-mage characters are raging idiots, for failing to point out how simply the problem could be solved. Anders blew up a damn church we he could've just gone "Yo, Meredith, if you think mages are all crazy lunatics, maybe just stop handing them weapons?"
Like, the whole threat of mages is their innate potential for power and destruction - innate, as in, divorced from any external force or object. The only effective solution found to curtailing this potential is Tranquility, which is an obviously horrifying solution that wouldn't be used, and likely wouldn't have even been discovered, if simpler and kinder solutions existed - solutions such as simply taking away their staff, or even cutting off their limbs.
*Sigh* I dunno. Sorry if I'm coming across as... aggressive, but... it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Maybe? But that begs the question of why they don't just smear lyrium over all their sh*t - why stop at the staff? Why not their clothes - or armor, even?
Well, gameplay and story segregation aside, technically, armor CAN strengthen one's magic - we can pick materials that increases mana pool, or strengthen healing, or even add effects (via Fade-touched materials). I assume that the staff works the same way - it helps focus one's magical powers through specifically chosen materials. Perhaps the staff's shape lends itself to helping channel or focus magic around.
... Or it could be that most mages are simply trained to use the staff, so it's a matter of habit. In Thedas, after all, there are many ways to train or use magic, and the general consensus is that if a mage is trained one way they have difficulty learning another, if I remember correctly.
Also - in Trespasser we got ourselves Tidarions' flaming sword... and if I remember correctly there's a pair of daggers for mages as well.
Like, the whole threat of mages is their innate potential for power and destruction - innate, as in, divorced from any external force or object. The only effective solution found to curtailing this potential is Tranquility, which is an obviously horrifying solution that wouldn't be used, and likely wouldn't have even been discovered, if simpler and kinder solutions existed - solutions such as simply taking away their staff, or even cutting off their limbs.
... So? We have the most dextrous hands in animal kingdom, yet we still use tools that help us improve our precision or strenght.
Maybe? But that begs the question of why they don't just smear lyrium over all their sh*t - why stop at the staff? Why not their clothes - or armor, even? Maybe people don't want mages being that powerful, but when you're the leader of the Inquisition I think they'll make an exception (And who's there to stop you even if they don't?) Maybe lyrium's expensive - but what expense can be spared when you're talking about empowering and protecting the only person who can stop the apocalypse? And if mages rely so much on their staves to be powerful, why make the staves in the first place? Why hand them out to every Circle mage? That's like trying to fight a fire by throwing powder kegs at it.
From a story standpoint, It just doesn't make any sort of sense for staves to give a significant power boost to mages. Maybe they give a small one. Maybe they improve accuracy and control. Maybe they allow the mage to "change" their damage type (To one of the electric/frost/fire elemental types.) But beyond that? If mages relied on their staves to be any significant threat, they wouldn't have them in the first place. You'd solve half the mage problem right there. You'd solve the entire mage problem if abominations are similarly restricted to relying on staves. If that's true, if staves are so integral, then every anti-mage character in the story's a raging idiot. Even the pro-mage characters are raging idiots, for failing to point out how simply the problem could be solved. Anders blew up a damn church we he could've just gone "Yo, Meredith, if you think mages are all crazy lunatics, maybe just stop handing them weapons?"
Like, the whole threat of mages is their innate potential for power and destruction - innate, as in, divorced from any external force or object. The only effective solution found to curtailing this potential is Tranquility, which is an obviously horrifying solution that wouldn't be used, and likely wouldn't have even been discovered, if simpler and kinder solutions existed - solutions such as simply taking away their staff, or even cutting off their limbs.
*Sigh* I dunno. Sorry if I'm coming across as... aggressive, but... it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Cutting off limbs is actually something used by people in Thedas as a defense aganist magic. In Leliana's Song, after Leliana, Sketch and Tug are captured, it's a real fear for Sketch that it's going to happen to him.
Well, gameplay and story segregation aside, technically, armor CAN strengthen one's magic - we can pick materials that increases mana pool, or strengthen healing, or even add effects (via Fade-touched materials). I assume that the staff works the same way - it helps focus one's magical powers through specifically chosen materials. Perhaps the staff's shape lends itself to helping channel or focus magic around.
... Or it could be that most mages are simply trained to use the staff, so it's a matter of habit. In Thedas, after all, there are many ways to train or use magic, and the general consensus is that if a mage is trained one way they have difficulty learning another, if I remember correctly.
Also - in Trespasser we got ourselves Tidarions' flaming sword... and if I remember correctly there's a pair of daggers for mages as well.
... So? We have the most dextrous hands in animal kingdom, yet we still use tools that help us improve our precision or strenght.
But armor doesn't increase spell power as a staff does, and fade-touched materials can be used by any class or character. Which would imply they don't operate the same way - if they did, if a thin rod of metal can increase my attack power by two hundred points, then surely an entire suit of armor can double that. So why does it maybe give me one or two points to some nebulous stat, and not quadruple my magical power? The armor and fade-touched tools proves that materials can have an effect on fighting style and power, but I'm asking about proof that fighting style or power rely on those materials, outside of gameplay.
And could you... expand on the point about hands? I'm not seeing how it explains the ubiquity or importance of staves to mages and their magical power.
Cutting off limbs is actually something used by people in Thedas as a defense aganist magic. In Leliana's Song, after Leliana, Sketch and Tug are captured, it's a real fear for Sketch that it's going to happen to him.
But that just raises more questions! If that's an effective solution, then why doesn't everyone else do that?
Ugh, see, this is why I just say it's story segregation and call it a day. It's easier for me and it's easier for the writers, and I'd rather have a good story that doesn't really gel with the gameplay over a terrible story that bends over backwards to make the gameplay make sense.
But that just raises more questions! If that's an effective solution, then why doesn't everyone else do that?
Ugh, see, this is why I just say it's story segregation and call it a day. It's easier for me and it's easier for the writers, and I'd rather have a good story that doesn't really gel with the gameplay over a terrible story that bends over backwards to make the gameplay make sense.
Because making them Tranquil is easier and lets them keep both their limbs to make them better labourers.
What would the point be of cutting off their limbs as a punishment for troublesome mages, when you can either execute them and eliminate any problem, or render them tranquil and eliminate any threat they might pose?
The only people who'd consider cutting off a mage's limbs to deal with their magic, probably are guards who think it's easier than calling Templars, or simply enjoy being cruel.
Because making them Tranquil is easier and lets them keep both their limbs to make them better labourers.
What would the point be of cutting off their limbs as a punishment for troublesome mages, when you can either execute them and eliminate any problem, or render them tranquil and eliminate any threat they might pose?
Because you're a scared parent who doesn't want the Templars to come for their newly-manifested kid? Because you're an apostate who'd rather be a cripple on the streets than a lobotomized slave with food and bed? Because you're a Templar that genuinely cares for mages and wants to make their plight easier while still keeping the public safe, and you figure that this is the best option?
There are plenty of people who'd find that preferable to any of the proposed options of dealing with mages.
Because you're a scared parent who doesn't want the Templars to come for their newly-manifested kid? Because you're an apostate who'd rather be a cripple on the streets than a lobotomized slave with food and bed? Because you're a Templar that genuinely cares for mages and wants to make their plight easier while still keeping the public safe, and you figure that this is the best option?
There are plenty of people who'd find that preferable to any of the proposed options of dealing with mages.
But surely all that would do is tip off everyone that anyone you saw with one arm is probably a mage? It also wouldn't prevent anyone from throwing a fireball with the remaining hand, not unless you cut that one off as a well.
Even though I detest the Circle, I'd rather face life imprisonment in a tower or tranquility, than be forced to have both my limbs amputated and having that option be labelled as more humane. The Qunari don't amputate limbs off their mages and they are the most aggressively anti-magic faction in Thedas, who shackle them in chains, force them to wear blinders and sew their mouths shut!
But surely all that would do is tip off everyone that anyone you saw with one arm is probably a mage? It also wouldn't prevent anyone from throwing a fireball with the remaining hand, not unless you cut that one off as a well.
Even though I detest the Circle, I'd rather face life imprisonment in a tower or tranquility, than be forced to have both my limbs amputated and having that option be labelled as more humane.
Even the Qunari don't amputate limbs off mages and they shackle them in chains, force them to wear blinders and sew their mouths shut!
You would, perhaps. Not everyone, certainly not someone who's making the choice for others - at least one person in this thread said they'd rather lose a limb than be killed, enslaved, or lobotomized (And then enslaved anyway.). And if Mage Quizzies are kept out of the fight because of losing one arm, clearly that's all it takes to disempower a mage.
*Sigh* I never played Leliana's Song, so I don't know what the situation is. Maybe the people who captured this mage didn't realize that hacking off limbs wouldn't solve the problem. Maybe the mage was just afraid that was what would happen, and not something that was actually threatened. Either way, if dismemberment solves the issue, that absolutely should've been brought up before. That it's never been mentioned anywhere but a single DLC makes me question if it's really a valid solution.
Art break.
Lovely art of Trespasser Solas and Lavellan by limpstella. 
Lavellan seeking Solas for comfort.
Solas done for the color palette meme. Oooh!
Sketches of Lavellan, Trevelyan, and Solas.
EDIT: Top again?
Source: http://thedreadsparr...st/140112212854
You would, perhaps. Not everyone, certainly not someone who's making the choice for others - at least one person in this thread said they'd rather lose a limb than be forcibly enslaved. And if Mage Quizzies are kept out of the fight because of losing one arm, clearly that's all it takes to disempower a mage.
But again, removing even one limb or both doesn't do anything to nullify the mage's inherent magical ability.
The Mage Inquisitor doesn't lose any of their power by losing an arm, merely the ability to use it and their staff with the same adeptness they had before. It's entirely possible that they'd eventually learn to compensate for the loss of the limb and even be able to use the staff with one hand in the future, just not with the same skill or flashier moves they could pull off previously.
From what we know of magic in the DA universe, it always finds some means to channel itself. While we're told that it's near-impossible for hedge-mages to learn Circle spells because their magic manifested so differently that it's locked them out of those skills, we don't know if the loss of a limb has the same affect or that someone couldn't relearn the same spell with one hand instead?
The point being, saying it's kinder to dismember someone which does basically nothing to magical ability, under the justification that it's for their own good, seems a little daft to me. At least Tranquility renders their magic nullified and prevents them from becoming abominations (easily), whereas both those risks to a mage still apply even if you cut off a hand or two.
And one imagines you'd find those mages far more at risk of becoming Rage abominations, because I'd definitely be hacked off (pardon the expression) with someone deciding it was the right thing and in my own best interest, before they severed my limbs.
Oh right, I forgot - the rattus comment only fires if f!Lavellan removes her vallaslin.
Therefore... LOL... Corypheus turns out to be one of the few NPCs that comments on Sollavelan
I didn't know that his comment only triggers if we remove the vallaslin, makes me think we could adopt that as our new motto;
"Solavellan... even the bad guys ship it."
Now if only Mythal commented on it, that would have been perfect! Perhaps that is the real reason Solas was so livid if we drank from the Well, he's now forced to deal with essentially his missus and the ex teaming up!
Retour en haut
