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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#149226
ladyiolanthe

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Well, this might be craziness born of impatience for more information about Thedas, but when I read excerpts from Ashkaari Koslun's works, I get the feeling that he actually knew all about elves, mages, and understood exactly what the world is. And also that the Qun has completely misinterpreted Koslun's revelations. For example, Canto 1:

 

Existence is a choice.
There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
Mastery of the self is mastery of the world.
Loss of the self is the source of suffering. 
Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it. 
It is in our own power to create the world, or destroy it.
 
The Qun take this to mean how one should comport oneself. But to me, it sounds pretty much like it could double as a creation story... From the raw stuff of the fade, minor awarenesses were born (wisps). Over time some of these became more complex (we know they can do this from Solas telling us what would happen to his friend Wisdom after she died), until some of them became wise enough to become the first physical people (Evanuris, in all likelihood). 
 
Forgetting your purpose is bad (spirits twisting into demons - even extremely complex entities like Solas and Cole can be twisted from Wisdom to Pride and from Compassion to Fear (or whatever Cole was when he was naively killing people left right and centre)). But you don't have to lose yourself; you can exercise your agency and remain true to your purpose. Everyone has the power to change not only themselves, but the world.
 
The Soul Canto could be another take on whatever happened between the Evanuris and the Titans.

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#149227
midnight tea

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Existence is a choice.

There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
Mastery of the self is mastery of the world.
Loss of the self is the source of suffering. 
Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it. 
It is in our own power to create the world, or destroy it.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if Koslun = Solas or someone close to him :D Probably why he tells disliked Inky that he stopped the Qun because it offends him.


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#149228
ladyiolanthe

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I really wouldn't be surprised if Koslun = Solas or someone close to him :D Probably why he tells disliked Inky that he stopped the Qun because it offends him.

 

Yeah... While I hate to ascribe every legend and myth in the setting to Solas and Mythal, I myself have wondered if Solas tried to teach Koslun, or at least communicated stuff to Koslun through his dreams. Stuff that Koslun then wrote down, and people turned into the Qun philosophy.


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#149229
Bayonet Hipshot

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*Snip*

 

There is a problem with this and that is Koslun assumes that all organisms must have a form of purpose that cannot be forgotten, which is false. This only applies to spirits. Creatures of flesh and blood, especially one born after the Veil was created, can choose their own purpose.

 

Additionally, I find the purposefully obfuscatory nature the Canto to be very annoying, just like the obfuscation in every other religious and many philosopher's works are annoying.

 

If you know what happened or if you think you know what happened to the world - Just write it down in simple language and mention your source. I would assume that his source is from dreaming / meditation of the Fade.

 

The reason I think like this is due to George Orwell, specifically Orwell's Six Elementary Rules from Politics and English Language, an essay written by him in 1946. Here are the six rules:-

  1. Never use a metaphor, simile or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
  2. Never use a long word where a short one will do.
  3. If it is possible to cut out a word, always cut it out.
  4. Never use the passive where you can use the active.
  5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
  6. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

It is such a simple set of rules yet it is perfect in that it emphasizes clear and concise language over Newspeak. All religious texts I know, whether it be the ones in real life or the ones in fiction, have failed these rules spectacularly which leads me to believe (and given the evidence around us, this has to be true) that religious texts' primary focus is indoctrination, not enlightenment.



#149230
ladyiolanthe

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*snip*

 

That's fair; the misinterpretation may have come from Koslun himself, rather than people who read his works.



#149231
Ellawynn

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There is a problem with this and that is Koslun assumes that all organisms must have a form of purpose that cannot be forgotten, which is false. This only applies to spirits. Creatures of flesh and blood, especially one born after the Veil was created, can choose their own purpose.

 

Additionally, I find the purposefully obfuscatory nature the Canto to be very annoying, just like the obfuscation in every other religious and many philosopher's works are annoying.

 

If you know what happened or if you think you know what happened to the world - Just write it down in simple language and mention your source. I would assume that his source is from dreaming / meditation of the Fade.

 

The reason I think like this is due to George Orwell, specifically Orwell's Six Elementary Rules from Politics and English Language, an essay written by him in 1946. Here are the six rules:-

  1. Never use a metaphor, simile or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
  2. Never use a long word where a short one will do.
  3. If it is possible to cut out a word, always cut it out.
  4. Never use the passive where you can use the active.
  5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
  6. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

It is such a simple set of rules yet it is perfect in that it emphasizes clear and concise language over Newspeak. All religious texts I know, whether it be the ones in real life or the ones in fiction, have failed these rules spectacularly which leads me to believe (and given the evidence around us, this has to be true) that religious texts' primary focus is indoctrination, not enlightenment.

 

I just get this weird mental image of some deity revealing themselves to you for you to be the most obtuse prophet ever.

 

God: "Now that you know my acts, you must go forth and -"

 

You: "Woah woah woah, sir, hold your divine horses. You've been makin' some bold claims here. "And on the last day I created man?" Can I get some sources on that? Some hard evidence? A written testimony at least."

 

God: *Sigh* "See, this is why I don't talk to mortals anymore."

 

But in all seriousness, I know a lot mythological texts - Homer's epic poems, for instance - weren't written in the interest of indoctrination or enlightenment. Rather, they were written in a clunky, repetitious style because they were spoken in a clunky, repetitious style, before anyone ever thought to put them on paper, because it made the language easier to remember and recite. You call Athena gray-eyed four or five times in so many passages, and you're not likely to forget it later on. It helped the text to survive and pass on, and eventually put into writing, so that Lit students three thousand years in the future can get terrible migraines trying to parse it out.

 

Fiction writers, for their part, just try to seem authentic by mimicking the style.

 

Not to mention styles change. Orwell's clear and concise ideal wasn't even really a thing until recently (I thing Hemmingway was really the first to do it, but I could be wrong there.) so it's not like Moses could jump forward two thousand years in the future, take a few classes on science writing, and jet back to get God's commandments. Even if he could, I sort of have to disagree with Orwell's rules - while writing styles should lean towards clarity over pointless flourishing, English is a beautiful language, and stripping it down to be as frankly communicative, while good for the story itself, sort of disregards how beautiful the prose can be. An ideal style would find a happy medium between brevity and beauty. 

 

(I'd also argue that Newspeak itself is the extreme result of these rules, given that it's a language that's eliminating all the "unnecessary" words, and favors childlike simplicity over denser vocabulary - although it is more unwieldy than English with how it thoughtlessly smashes words together.)


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#149232
Bayonet Hipshot

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*snip*

 

I am perfectly fine with flowery, over-the-top, clunky and repetitious language when it comes to fiction and entertainment. I mean, you want to entertain yourselves so sky's the limit. You want to be obtuse or bombastic, that's up to you. Its entertainment and its for fun.

 

However, I am not fine with flowery, over-the-top, clunky and repetitious language when it comes to philosophy and reality comprehension. If you want to teach or educate or enlighten people with how you think the world works, how reality functions and how one should live their lives, it is best to use concise and clear language. Furthermore, you must list your sources of information. This allows people to understand what you are talking about and allows them to replicate or verify your findings and viewpoints on their own.

 

The problem comes from the fact that religion and religious like philosophy like the Qun try to portray themselves as the source of all the answers for the questions we seek, as the source of morality, as a source for laws and as a way of life...While using obfuscative, over-the-top, flowery, clunky, and repetitious language.

 

If religion and religious philosophy are viewed as fictional entertainment (which is what they actually are), then I would have no problems with them but they are not viewed that way. Specific groups of people are persecuted and oppressed, facts are whitewashed away, wars are started and resources are wasted under the banner of religion and religious philosophy.


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#149233
CapricornSun

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Art post.

 

I don't remember if this has been shared here before. Lavellan tells Solas that she notices that she and Ameridan have so much in common

and hopes that her story won't end up so sad.  :(

 

Beautiful romance cards of Solavellan and Cullen x Lavellan.

 

Adorable Solavellan tippy toe kiss by limpstella:wub:

 

Solas really likes kissing. <3 (Solavellan)

 

1950s AU Solavellan. :D

 

Amazing art of normal Solas and redlyrium!Solas.

 

Gorgeous painting of Solas.

 

One layer speedpaint of Solas.

 

Sad elf.


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#149234
Ellawynn

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If religion and religious philosophy are viewed as fictional entertainment (which is what they actually are), then I would have no problems with them but they are not viewed that way. Specific groups of people are persecuted and oppressed, facts are whitewashed away, wars are started and resources are wasted under the banner of religion and religious philosophy.

 

From a modern perspective, I agree with you. If your goal is to inform and instruct, especially with the hope that you'll reach thousands if not millions of people, then you should be absolutely clear.

 

But as far as religious texts written thousands of years ago, I'm... not sure what you're saying they should've done? The scientific method wouldn't be invented, much less widespread, for quite some time. They were simply writing as they knew how. Just as art was all flat perspectives and limited shading, despite the fact that it's obviously not true to life, writing was murky and awkward, despite it being hard to grasp and easy to misinterpret. Personally, I'd blame the people who use vague passages and dense metaphors to justify their behavior, and not the person who wrote them, who might not have had any desire for them to be twisted that way (Although, a lot of things in a lot of religious texts are pretty gross no matter how you try to spin them, so they might have written those passages in the interest of justifying such behavior. In that case, take as much issue as you like.) Nowadays I'd find unclear writing more reprehensible - but back then they were doing good if they even got the pen to paper. Or the... hollow reed to paper, or the chisel to clay, whatever.


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#149235
Aneira

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Just curious (also hello my dear Solasmancers, I have arisen from the abyss again) any Lavellans here who use Sumalee's voice over Alix's? Love them both, and I'm currently playing a warrior Lavellan with Sumalee's voice and I love it ^^

Going down the road of angst with Solas of course

 

Late to the party, but: I chose Alix's voice for my Travelyan (my first DAI character) and it was okay at first. It might be because I'm no native speaker, but to me she sounds like she has a lisp and it really bothered me after a while. I noticed the same thing in Divinity Original Sin where she does voice acting, too.

 

For DAI I came to love Sumalee's voice though, so it's okay for me and I always use her voice now.


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#149236
Sah291

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There is a problem with this and that is Koslun assumes that all organisms must have a form of purpose that cannot be forgotten, which is false. This only applies to spirits. Creatures of flesh and blood, especially one born after the Veil was created, can choose their own purpose.

Additionally, I find the purposefully obfuscatory nature the Canto to be very annoying, just like the obfuscation in every other religious and many philosopher's works are annoying.

If you know what happened or if you think you know what happened to the world - Just write it down in simple language and mention your source. I would assume that his source is from dreaming / meditation of the Fade.

Haha, but then how would they keep it away from the profane? ;)

But yeah there is often taken to be both an exoteric and esoteric meaning behind many religious and philosophical texts. Both to make it easier to remember and to understand precious knowledge, and to protect it/hide it from the unwise. In order to understand it, one needs to be privy to the key or code to the symbolism.

But yeah this is why I love dragon age lore/codex, so much thought put into it.
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#149237
Sah291

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Well, this might be craziness born of impatience for more information about Thedas, but when I read excerpts from Ashkaari Koslun's works, I get the feeling that he actually knew all about elves, mages, and understood exactly what the world is. And also that the Qun has completely misinterpreted Koslun's revelations. For example, Canto 1:

Existence is a choice.
There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
Mastery of the self is mastery of the world.
Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
It is in our own power to create the world, or destroy it.

The Qun take this to mean how one should comport oneself. But to me, it sounds pretty much like it could double as a creation story... From the raw stuff of the fade, minor awarenesses were born (wisps). Over time some of these became more complex (we know they can do this from Solas telling us what would happen to his friend Wisdom after she died), until some of them became wise enough to become the first physical people (Evanuris, in all likelihood).

Forgetting your purpose is bad (spirits twisting into demons - even extremely complex entities like Solas and Cole can be twisted from Wisdom to Pride and from Compassion to Fear (or whatever Cole was when he was naively killing people left right and centre)). But you don't have to lose yourself; you can exercise your agency and remain true to your purpose. Everyone has the power to change not only themselves, but the world.

The Soul Canto could be another take on whatever happened between the Evanuris and the Titans.

I think you are right. It is saying something about chaos theory, I think. That what appears to be chaos, is only a complex system of many individual parts acting according to predictable rules, and in accordance with the self and individual choice. One's purpose then, is acting in accordance to one's own nature. In that way, the existence of the world depends on each individual, as much as the individual depends on the world.

Which explains why the Qunari don't acknowledge any creator gods/deities.

It does sound a bit like Solas' view. Doesn't mean he is/was Koslun... But looking at how Qunari society has become a perversion of that philosophy, with their reeducation camps and attempts to control individual thought... That would be really offensive to him I would think.
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#149238
NightSymphony

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Yay..I have a lot of art to share for once..lol :D

 

Gorgeous black and white Solas with glowing green eyes

http://gothic-icecre...Solas-595922853

 

One last embrace

http://zinxth.devian...t-III-595919687

 

The Sun and The Moon (VERY NSFW because of nakedness and Solas' dingaling)

http://tatakikick.de...tarot-595919873

Just Solas (no dingaling)

http://tatakikick.de...oooon-595919587

 

Fen'Harel the Assgrabber (lol...NSFW again because of Lavellan's naked butt)

http://tatakikick.de...abber-595918741

 

Dorian and Fen-Harel (with hair)

http://tatakikick.de...harel-595917142

 

Solas and Lavellan profiles

http://tatakikick.de...an-04-595916776

 

Fen'Harel's sketchbook

http://ancaxbre.devi...hbook-595801755

 

 

And a couple Zevrans

 

NSFW because of sideboob

http://purple-meow.d...arden-595750477

 

Zevran and his baby daughter

http://umbreongal.de...Rinna-595845291


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#149239
CapricornSun

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Art post.  :ph34r:

 

Beautiful Solavellan artwork.

Spoiler

 

Part 2 of the Solavellan post-Trespasser comic. :( (Part 1 here.)

 

Adorable modern AU Solavellan WIP.

 

Modern AU Solas and Lavellan from the fic Meet the Family.

 

Solas kissing Lavellan on the head.

 

Solavellan family portrait WIP.

 

Lovely Solas sketch.

 

DA:I Don't Starve series: The Companions. :D


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#149240
Aren

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Dunno if the Evanuris are the Old gods but these fan arts help me to give them a less nebulous  appearance to both sides.

 

Elgar’nan God of vengeance

Spoiler
 
 Mythal: the Great Protector
Spoiler
 
 
Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide
Spoiler
 
 
Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets
Spoiler
 
 
Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt
Spoiler
 
 
Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper 
Spoiler
 
 
June: God of the Craft
Spoiler
 
 
 
Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla 
Spoiler
 
 
Old gods
Spoiler
 

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#149241
ShallowlLife9871

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Dunno if the Evanuris are the Old gods but these fan arts help me to give them a less nebulous  appearance to both sides.

 

Elgar’nan God of vengeance

Spoiler
 
 Mythal: the Great Protector
Spoiler
 
 
Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide
Spoiler
 
 
Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets
Spoiler
 
 
Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt
Spoiler
 
 
Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper 
Spoiler
 
 
June: God of the Craft
Spoiler
 
 
 
Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla 
Spoiler
 
 
Old gods
Spoiler
 

 

 

 

wow, these...are almost how i pictured them in my head.



#149242
NightSymphony

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The art above is drawn by ...

http://alteya.deviantart.com/

 

Except for the last two...dunno who drew those.


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#149243
Aren

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The art above is drawn by ...

http://alteya.deviantart.com/

 

Except for the last two...dunno who drew those.

I don't know i find it at random researches long ago 



#149244
CapricornSun

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Dunno if the Evanuris are the Old gods but these fan arts help me to give them a less nebulous  appearance to both sides.

 

Elgar’nan God of vengeance

Spoiler
 
 Mythal: the Great Protector
Spoiler
 
 
Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide
Spoiler
 
 
Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets
Spoiler
 
 
Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt
Spoiler
 
 
Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper 
Spoiler
 
 
June: God of the Craft
Spoiler
 
 
 
Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla 
Spoiler
 
 
Old gods
Spoiler
 

 

The art above is drawn by ...

http://alteya.deviantart.com/

 

Except for the last two...dunno who drew those.

 

The Ghilan'nain artwork was drawn by: http://silverchimaera-art.tumblr.com/ :wizard:


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#149245
NightSymphony

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The Ghilan'nain artwork was drawn by: http://silverchimaera-art.tumblr.com/ :wizard:

I knew you would know. :D


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#149246
CapricornSun

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Art post.

 

Beautiful artwork of Lavellan who might be going off to face Solas? By nipuni. :crying:

 

Solas comforting a crying Adaar. :(

 

Crying Solas WIP. :crying:

 

 

----------------------------------

Gosh! Why are the artworks here so sad?! lazycryplz.png?2


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#149247
Bayonet Hipshot

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Gosh! Why are the artworks here so sad?! lazycryplz.png?2

 

Because there is no happy ending with Solas. He is about tragedy. I believe Weekes said something along those lines once.



#149248
CapricornSun

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Because there is no happy ending with Solas. He is about tragedy. I believe Weekes said something along those lines once.

 

I believe Weekes said that Solas' story is sad (and the romance was added to make him sadder.) but that doesn't mean there is absolutely no happy ending for him. I know other people believe his story will absolutely end in tragedy but I'd like to believe that there is a chance for a not-so-tragic (maybe bittersweet at best?) ending for him. (Because choices are good.)

 

Also, because Weekes said this:

 

Source: http://kiwi-xeet.tum...about-the-solas

 

tumblr_nurhddZVG51qd70yeo1_540.png

 

I will foolishly cling to whatever hope there is for Solas. (ง •̀_•́)ง


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#149249
Inkvisiittori

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"Do not trust to hope. It has forsaken these lands."

 

I believe the romance is going to end with either Solas or the Inquisitor sacrificing their own life so the other one can live... The player can decide which one dies. Kind of like the choice between Hawke and the Warden Ally in DAI. Every DA protagonist so far has had the chance to die heroically in the game (Warden and US, Hawke and the Nightmare). So it seems likely that the Inquisitor will have similar fate. Of course we may have no choice at all... if you drank from the Well of Sorrows either Mythal or now maybe Solas can control you, if so he might do the same thing as Alistair did in the battle of Denerim. Or if the anchor is still part of the Inquisitor then maybe it will kill them instead because they have been slowly dying all along... Inquisitors death would also make sense since they are 'Andraste's Herald', after all;

 

"Let the blade pass through the flesh,

Let my blood touch the ground,

Let my cries touch their hearts,

Let mine be the last sacrifice."

 

That's my guess anyway.  :D Can't wait to see what happens...


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#149250
ladyiolanthe

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I believe Weekes said that Solas' story is sad (and the romance was added to make him sadder.) but that doesn't mean there is absolutely no happy ending for him. I know other people believe his story will absolutely end in tragedy but I'd like to believe that there is a chance for a not-so-tragic (maybe bittersweet at best?) ending for him. (Because choices are good.)

 

Also, because Weekes said this:

 

Source: http://kiwi-xeet.tum...about-the-solas

 

tumblr_nurhddZVG51qd70yeo1_540.png

 

I will foolishly cling to whatever hope there is for Solas. (ง •̀_•́)ง

 

Weekes may also have been using double speak with that tweet. If the Inquisitor's rare and marvellous spirit is a spirit of hope, then the romance is certainly a hope-full one.


  • Flemmy aime ceci